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Obama getting a bad rap on Gitmo comments? Update: McCain rips Obama’s “September 10th” mindset

posted at 1:34 pm on June 17, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Kind of, yeah. Team McCain’s outraged over what Obama said yesterday about fighting terrorism within constitutional bounds. Quote:

“Barack Obama’s belief that we should treat terrorists as nothing more than common criminals demonstrates a stunning and alarming misunderstanding of the threat we face from radical Islamic extremism. Obama holds up the prosecution of the terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993 as a model for his administration, when in fact this failed approach of treating terrorism simply as a matter of law enforcement rather than a clear and present danger to the United States contributed to the tragedy of September 11th. This is change that will take us back to the failed policies of the past and every American should find this mindset troubling.”

Andy McCarthy piles on:

When an elitist lawyer like Obama claims the criminal-justice system works against terrorists, he means it satisfies his top concern: due process. And on that score, he’s quite right: We’ve shown we can conduct trials that are fair to the terrorists. After all, we give them lawyers paid for by the taxpayers whom they are trying to kill, mounds of our intelligence in discovery, and years upon years of pretrial proceedings, trials, appeals, and habeas corpus…

A successful counterterrorism strategy makes criminal prosecution a subordinate part of a much broader governmental response. Most of what is needed never happens in a courtroom. It happens in military operations against terrorist strongholds; intelligence operations in which jihadists get assassinated — without trial; intelligence collections in which we cozy up to despicable informants since only they can tell us what we need to know; and aggressive treasury actions to trace terror funds.

Good points all, especially the part about prosecution being one weapon in a larger arsenal. Only problem: I’m not sure Obama disagrees. This is the guy, remember, who wants a troop build-up in Afghanistan, and who (in)famously said, “If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.” Wolf Blitzer actually put the question to him point-blank at one of the debates last summer about what he’d do if Osama suddenly appeared in a Predator’s crosshairs. Compare and contrast his answer with Kucinich’s.

As I read his comments to ABC, what he’s saying is if we capture guys instead of kill them then they’re owed basically the same constitutional protections as criminals — a novel and worrisome legal position, as Mark Levin tries to explain to George Will, but not proof that due process is Obama’s tippy top concern. If it was, he’d have agreed with Kucinich in the clip, not advocated taking anyone out.

What does this mean, though? “[W]e have destroyed our credibility when it comes to rule of law all around the world [by not putting the detainees on trial], and given a huge boost to terrorist recruitment in countries that say, ‘Look, this is how the United States treats Muslims.’” Is he so naive as to seriously believe wacko jihadis draw some huge distinction between the legitimacy of Gitmo and the legitimacy of district court trials? Exit quotation from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed:

“I cannot accept any attorney who is not governed by sharia [Islamic] law. I will represent myself. I will not be represented by anybody even if he is a Muslim, because he will be sworn to your American Constitution. I consider all the U.S. Constitution and laws evil. They are allowing for same-sexual marriages and many things that are very bad … Do you understand what I said?”

Update: Maverick knows red meat when he tastes it.

Randy Scheunemann, McCain’s foreign policy adviser, said Obama represents “the perfect manifestation of a Sept. 10 mindset.”

“If a law enforcement approach were accurate, then you wouldn’t have had Sept. 11,” Kori Schake, a McCain policy adviser, said…

Those on the McCain call said that the approach taken in 1993 is “precisely what failed,” and if the evidence used in targeting those responsible had not been under grand jury seal then “that would have given a good chance to have prevented 9-11.”…

In a reference sure to further rankle the Obama campaign, Scheunemann pointed to the famous “3 a.m. phone call” ad used by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) during the Democratic nomination battle as a way of painting Obama as naïve on national security.

“I guess his response would be to call the lawyers and the Justice Department,” Scheunemann said.


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He’s not getting a bad rap…He said what he said.

Chudi on June 17, 2008 at 1:37 PM

McCain: I just want to give the terrorists a few rights under our Constitution. Bambi wants to give them MORE than a few.

Too bad McCain’s a liberal, or he could win this election going away.

misterpeasea on June 17, 2008 at 1:38 PM

What does this mean, though? “[W]e have destroyed our credibility when it comes to rule of law all around the world [by not putting the detainees on trial], and given a huge boost to terrorist recruitment in countries that say, ‘Look, this is how the United States treats Muslims.’”

It means he wants to prosecute “misunderstanders of Islam.”

Connie on June 17, 2008 at 1:40 PM

Well now the Dems will go after KSM as he’s against same-sex marriage.

rbj on June 17, 2008 at 1:41 PM

AP,

I don’t get your analysis. So Obama’s position is being unfairly represented because he wants to kill bin Laden?

terryannonline on June 17, 2008 at 1:42 PM

misterpeasea: please put an O in front of bambi. Otherwise, you are insulting a beautiful animal.

Bambi on June 17, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Its a simple question do foreign nationals have constitutional rights ?

William Amos on June 17, 2008 at 1:45 PM

Obama getting a bad rap?

Boo freakin’ hoo.

As much as the MSM has carried his water, neither he nor his supporters have any right to complain.

thirteen28 on June 17, 2008 at 1:45 PM

ZOMG!!

AP is softening towards a vote for Obama

Hoodlumman on June 17, 2008 at 1:47 PM

misterpeasea: please put an O in front of bambi. Otherwise, you are insulting a beautiful animal.

Bambi on June 17, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Apologies. How’s Faline?

misterpeasea on June 17, 2008 at 1:47 PM

McCain: I just want to give the terrorists a few rights under our Constitution. Bambi wants to give them MORE than a few.

Too bad McCain’s a liberal, or he could win this election going away.

misterpeasea on June 17, 2008 at 1:38 PM

Again, John McCain is not a member of the 4 supreme court justices. And no, he’s not a liberal.

You are just so full of …… lies today.

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Problem is, it doesn’t matter one whit what the man says at any given point in time. He’s the political equivalent of a film pitch: lots of punchy taglines and comparisons to past successful franchises with a fully negotiable internal structure.

He doesn’t even rise to the level of a flip-flop. He just makes s#!^ up as he goes along.

spmat on June 17, 2008 at 1:51 PM

You said Obama.

…and rap.

RACISTS!

cntrlfrk on June 17, 2008 at 1:52 PM

I’ll give them a few rights…but not under our Constitution. They are not citizens of our nation, they are our enemies. We should not treat them as one of us, whom they have sworn to destroy.

Silver lining….I foresee a dramatic decrease in “captures” on the battlefield. That should take care of things.

pecan pie on June 17, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Good thing we have you around to interpret Obama for us Allah.

TheBigOldDog on June 17, 2008 at 1:53 PM

What he said in that debate doesn’t mean anything.

It doesn’t because that song was number one on the Lefty hit parade at that time: Yeah, I’m all rough and tough to fight in Afghanistan. See how tough I am. Iraq is a distraction from the real…blah, blah, blah…

Now that we’re winning in Iraq and Afghanistan, that song has miraculously slipped off their playlist. And the new top tune goes something like this: If our enemies don’t have rights, then neither do we.

Typhoon on June 17, 2008 at 1:55 PM

America is just plain mean.

As for me, I think that any savage, taken in the field, should be brought to the United States and educated at Princeton and Harvard. And, after a less than memorable term in our Senate, should be allowed [by duly amending the Constitution, of course] to run for President.

That way … America will, again, have the respect of the world.

OhEssYouCowboys on June 17, 2008 at 1:55 PM

After a few days of researching the Geneva Convention says POWs are to be tried by military tribunal, they can be detained for the duration of hostilities and their status as to whether they are POWs or unlawful combatants must be decided by a special tribunal. Has the tribunal been asked for? Not to my knowledge. Every time they start a trial the defense lawyers file one motion after another, hence the delay in the trials. It ain’t exactly rocket science as to who is holding up the proceedings.

FWIW, the US signed the convention with reservation to one of the articles dealing with the death penalty. We kept the right to implement the death penalty.

Tom

marinetbryant on June 17, 2008 at 1:57 PM

Oh please. All that Obama stuff about getting tough in Afghanistan is just cover for his immediate surrender in Iraq.

I believe his claim to want to go all unilateral in the NW provinces of Pakistan as much as I believe McCain really wants to secure the border.

Clark1 on June 17, 2008 at 1:58 PM

I’m sure the McCain campaign would be happy to stop mischaracterizing Obama’s comments…just as soon as Obama, the DNC, Keith Olbermann, moveon.org et.al. stop mischaracterizing McCain’s comment about being in Iraq for 100 years. Obama started this, thank God McCain is not unilaterally disarming.

rockmom on June 17, 2008 at 1:58 PM

Again, John McCain is not a member of the 4 supreme court justices. And no, he’s not a liberal.

You are just so full of …… lies today.

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 1:48 PM

You said the other day you don’t want to see McCain equated with Obama, and that some commenters here will go back to posting on the liberal blogs once they’ve sufficiently infected the waters here with lies about McCain.

This isn’t the general public here. Nobody here is simply going to listen to some guy at HA say McCain is a liberal and then go out and vote for Obama. And nobody is going to listen to you saying “that’s a lie” and vote for McCain. Here the candidate gets dissected, warts and all, and I suspect most people will end up voting for the lesser of two evils.

If you want to do McCain some good, why not take your message to the independents and “conservative” democrats who aren’t online here?

fwiw, I’ll vote for McCain, but see no reason why those to his right ought to be silent, especially here. After all, just why did McCain flip-flop on his energy policy today? Because of pressure.

JiangxiDad on June 17, 2008 at 2:00 PM

I’m not sure that attacking Obama for having a September 10th mindset is a winner for McCain. After all, most American voters have a September 10th mindset these days.

Enrique on June 17, 2008 at 2:01 PM

Sorry, no sympathy from me. I agree with

Chudi on June 17, 2008 at 1:37 PM “He said what he said.”

After listening to BO & all the assorted Yo Yo’s for the last 3-4 yrs I have zero patience for politican double speak. Maybe BO should have took one more communication class in college so he could have gotten his point across a little better.

At this point BO qualifies for the VikingGoneWild program of “It looks likes BS and it smells like BS, the IT IS BS!”

VikingGoneWild on June 17, 2008 at 2:01 PM

We are fighting terrorism within the bounds of the Cosntitution. Congress has the power to define and punish crimes against the law of nations, Art. I Sec. 8.

Akzed on June 17, 2008 at 2:02 PM

He’s not getting a bad rap…He said what he said.

Agreed.
A bad rap would be if he were being misquoted or taken out of context. He said two things that don’t immediately complement each other and leaves ambiguity about his overarching view.
In this case, he needs to explain himself better and tie the two threads together. Actually, that’s something he needs to do with most of his positions.

MayBee on June 17, 2008 at 2:04 PM

Again, John McCain is not a member of the 4 supreme court justices. And no, he’s not a liberal.

You are just so full of …… lies today.

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Once again, moron, that’s 5 Supreme Court justices who voted to give constitutional rights to terrorists. Not 4. 5. Either you don’t read posts, or your reading comprehension skills need work.

And yes, he is a liberal, no matter how much you attack his critics instead of defending him.

McCain-Feingold. McCain-Lieberman. McCain-Kennedy. Unconstitutional restrictions on free speech, buying the global warming hoax with our money, and giving amnesty to illegal alien criminals.

Preventing us from drilling our own oil. Demagoging “obscene profits.” Implying that being a gummint worker all your life is noble and good, while working in the private sector is unseemly. Flip-flopping on any number of issues, like tax cuts, and amnesty, and drilling.

Being in bed with lobbyists while bragging about not being influenced by lobbyists. Wanting gummint to limit how much money we can earn.

Nah, he’s not a liberal. And you’re not a moron.

misterpeasea on June 17, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Not a bad rap, he said what he said whether he meant it or not. We conservatives try so very hard to be fair, to always give the other guy the benefit of the doubt when they do the opposite to us. Liberals are always going over and above to do whatever it takes to blow up anything a conservative says WAY out of proportion. Plus, they outright lie and are not ashamed of it, because if they fool enough people with the lies, they win elections.

We obviously should not twist or distort, and we should continue to analyze the implications of their proposals, but we should STOP being so accommodating! We KNOW they are liars, it is insincere of us to pretend we think they are patriots, or that they care about the troops, or that they care about anything other than getting elected and passing socialist policies to further increase their power base and subjugate the American people.

He said what he said. Let’s start taking these traitors and communists at face value.

JustTruth101 on June 17, 2008 at 2:05 PM

ps to the McCain campaign. You are right on this, but people balk at the words “pre 9/11 mindset”. That’s the kind of talk that hurt Rudy. Describe the mindset, but don’t invoke 9/11 any more than you have to.

MayBee on June 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM

No need to read the story. I saw the headline, and knew instantly it was an Allah commentary. No one else spends so much energy defending Obama.

Jaibones on June 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM

Update: Maverick knows red meat when he tastes it.

?

doubleplusundead on June 17, 2008 at 2:09 PM

It’s unfortunate, I think, during the initial push into Afghanistan we let him (Bin Laden) slip away because we were distracted.

That’s Obama at about 1:40 mark. Just one problem, the tired lefty argument that the war in Iraq is a distraction only works if you are actually fighting a war in Iraq, which we weren’t during the initial push into Afghanistan. This guy is a babbling idiot. Get him off the teleprompter and take him apart rhetorically.

trubble on June 17, 2008 at 2:13 PM

What did McCain expect to happen when he proposed closing Club Gitmo? Did he think that we’d just hold the Terrorists in Mississippi without trial?

McCain’s outrage on this is like most of his campaign, phony.

Snake307 on June 17, 2008 at 2:17 PM

ps to the McCain campaign. You are right on this, but people balk at the words “pre 9/11 mindset”. That’s the kind of talk that hurt Rudy. Describe the mindset, but don’t invoke 9/11 any more than you have to.

MayBee on June 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM

I disagree. It was true for Rudy, but not for McCain. It’s all Rudy talked about because it was his finest moment.

McCain is free to club Obama with it as much as he wants.

swami on June 17, 2008 at 2:17 PM

What does this mean, though? “[W]e have destroyed our credibility when it comes to rule of law all around the world [by not putting the detainees on trial], and given a huge boost to terrorist recruitment in countries that say, ‘Look, this is how the United States treats Muslims.’”

It means that he’s more concerned about his perception of how America looks based on all those chanting angry muslims than in actually protecting America.

His point about increasing troops in Afghanistan and at the same time not acknowledging we are fighting the same terrorists in Iraq therefore we need to leave is in line with the liberal POV. The enemy is those that attacked us on 9/11, none of the other attacks previous to 9/11 matter because the only one on the homeland soil was the ‘93 WTC bombing and that one has been prosecuted. In other words, the danger is not an ideology that has been growing and dates at least as far back as Beirut. It’s just a few miscreants. And we are making more of them by making muslims angry.

If we stopped making them angry, they would stop attacking us and the world would once again love us the way did under Clinton.

Texas Gal on June 17, 2008 at 2:18 PM

And yes, he is a liberal, no matter how much you attack his critics instead of defending him. Nah, he’s not a liberal. And you’re not a moron.

misterpeasea on June 17, 2008 at 2:05 PM

And you’re wrong …. again.

The American Conservative Union has released its report on Congress for 2007, and John McCain will welcome the results. Despite missing a number of votes while campaigning for President, McCain voted often enough to win a rating of 80, a significant improvement over the 65 he got in 2006.

So kindly don’t lie about McCain … again. And kindly don’t lie about me and what I do here …. again.

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Obama getting a bad rap on Gitmo comments?

I want Obama to lose. The Constitution is not a suicide pact. He and the voters that want to go down that path with him must be stopped.

JiangxiDad on June 17, 2008 at 2:21 PM

Randy Scheunemann, McCain’s foreign policy adviser, said Obama represents “the perfect manifestation of a Sept. 10 mindset.”

Simply. Beautiful.

I can see the ad already:

Obama’s terrorists-as-common-criminals soundbite.

Interrupt the visual repeatedly with a blank screen having only two words: “September 10th.”

Heh.

Lockstein13 on June 17, 2008 at 2:21 PM

This isn’t the general public here. Nobody here is simply going to listen to some guy at HA say McCain is a liberal and then go out and vote for Obama. And nobody is going to listen to you saying “that’s a lie” and vote for McCain. Here the candidate gets dissected, warts and all, and I suspect most people will end up voting for the lesser of two evils.
JiangxiDad on June 17, 2008 at 2:00 PM

It is their goal to trash talk McCain, to lie about him, to name call anyone who provides the proof that they are lieing and speak up when they do so. This is what they want. Just like the democrats, they want people to get disgusted with McCain, not vote and help to elect Obama. Because every vote will be counted. And the votes for Obama will be counted against the votes for McCain. They, like the democrats want McCain to loose. There is a place for them to go as well. The liberal websites who want Obama to win. Maybe they should go there for the next 5 months.

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 2:22 PM

It means that he’s more concerned about his perception of how America looks based on all those chanting angry muslims than in actually protecting America.

Exactly.
How many times does he have to say America is hated because we don’t act like equals with the rest of the world, before we realize his goal is to make us “equal”.
It’s like Barney. We are all going to be special, every nation. That’s what he thinks will make us safe.

MayBee on June 17, 2008 at 2:27 PM

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 2:22 PM

Saying what his ACU score is doesn’t refute

McCain-Feingold. McCain-Lieberman. McCain-Kennedy. Unconstitutional restrictions on free speech, buying the global warming hoax with our money, and giving amnesty to illegal alien criminals.

Preventing us from drilling our own oil. Demagoging “obscene profits.” Implying that being a gummint worker all your life is noble and good, while working in the private sector is unseemly. Flip-flopping on any number of issues, like tax cuts, and amnesty, and drilling.

Being in bed with lobbyists while bragging about not being influenced by lobbyists. Wanting gummint to limit how much money we can earn.

As I said, I’ll vote for him, but McCain is far from the pure driven snow.

JiangxiDad on June 17, 2008 at 2:28 PM

Your list also contains a lot of lies and half-truths.

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 2:32 PM

wise-man; McCain’s ‘improved’ rating was based on 10 of 25 determining votes; he missed 15 of them due to campaigning. so the improvement is not statistically singnificant.

The most you could really call McCain is ‘moderate-right’ and even that is pushing it. Still, it beats all hollow Obama’s ‘extreme-left’ that cannot be contested.

michaelo on June 17, 2008 at 2:33 PM

Yes, michaelo. But when you read the many comments here, you would swear to god that McCain was slightly left of Obama. And that is a lie.

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM

I cannot accept any attorney who is not governed by sharia [Islamic] law. I will represent myself. I will not be represented by anybody even if he is a Muslim, because he will be sworn to your American Constitution. – KSM

It’s so simple, Obama means to TORTURE the terrorists by subjecting them to our courts!

kirkill on June 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM

In a reference sure to further rankle the Obama campaign, Scheunemann pointed to the famous “3 a.m. phone call” ad used by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) during the Democratic nomination battle as a way of painting Obama as naïve on national security.

“I guess his response would be to call the lawyers and the Justice Department,” Scheunemann said.

Ba-Zing!

BohicaTwentyTwo on June 17, 2008 at 2:46 PM

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM

Because some think not voting for McCain sends the right message, and that Obama is not that dangerous.

I totally disagree with the second part of that sentiment, so I’m not sympathetic to their overall argument.

JiangxiDad on June 17, 2008 at 2:47 PM

We let Osama get away because we were “distracted”??

By what? Iraq?

drjohn on June 17, 2008 at 3:06 PM

McCain knows counter-insurgency, this is what he needs a little guerrila warfare with nice packaging. Obama is a big baby, he’s in the big ring now – bodyblows based on his own wacked out policies everyday from now until election.. and we’ll see who’s tired & old in November imho.

If Obama wants 50 states, then set fires for him in all 50 and let him & his team run around all day putting them out.

And forget Obama’s second grader views on these weighty topics, All I see is the McCain camp push on this leading online media today, he’s also got a major speech lined up on energy as I learned from AP. Bravo! McCain needs noise, all day noise in the media, who cares if liberals get their buns tight – the more they yelp to defend the false messiah the better it looks on TV.

Carpe Diem Team McCain – Every day, day in day out.. Lead the message every morning and hammer it home every night with reps on the tv shows.

saus on June 17, 2008 at 3:28 PM

The rights afforded by the United States Constitution apply only to citizens of the United States. Terrorists captured in Afghanistan while plotting to kill Americans are not citizens of the United States. Therefore they do not have rights under the United States Constitution.

What part of this does Barack Obama, who claims to be a professor of constitutional law, not understand?

Steve Z on June 17, 2008 at 4:49 PM

Obama is inexplicably still spouting the bromides that are articles of faith to the nutroots but will not sell to the general electorate. Maybe he really does believe this stuff. But he still should be smart enough to understand that he needs to shade it a little better for the masses. He is giving McCain way too much material to brand him as weak and naive.

rockmom on June 17, 2008 at 6:14 PM

But when you read the many comments here, you would swear to god that McCain was slightly left of Obama. And that is a lie.

wise_man on June 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM

Speaking of those strawmen you were squealing about. And those attacks you were denying.

And about that ACU rating, speaking of lies. You left a little something out:

2006
65 (Ben Nelson (D-NE) and Chuck Hagel (R-NE) scored 64 and 75, respectively, in 2006.)

2005
80

2004
72

2003
80

2002
72

2001
68

2000
81

1999
77

1998
68

1997
80

And moron? An 82.3 lifetime rating puts him 39th among Senators in 2006.

Particular votes where he voted like the liberal he is:

2006, Taxes
50-50

2006, Immigration
50-49

2006, Immigration
62-36

2006, Social: Same Sex Marriage
49-48

2006, Native Hawaiian Govt.
56-41

2006, International: Iran sanctions
54-45

2006, Immigration: Border Fence
71-29

2006, Social: Embryonic Stem Cells
63-37

2005, Taxes
51-49

2005, Environment: Climate Change
60-38

2005, Environment: mercury emissions
51-47

2005, Environment: ANWR
51-48

2005, Taxes: Oil & gas development
51-48

2004, Spending/Social: School vouchers
65-28

2004, Regulation: seat belts
57-41

2004, Legal Reform: Gun manufacturers
70-27

2004, Spending: Unemployment
58-39

2004, Taxes
51-48

2004, Spending: Education of disabled
56-41

2004, Legal Reform: Torts
44-43

2003, Taxes
50-50

2003, Taxes
50-50

2003, Taxes
51-49

2003, Environment: Kyoto
55-43

2002, Regulation: SUV fuel efficiency
56-44

2002, Taxes: death tax
55-44

2001, Taxes: marriage penalty
73-27

2001, Taxes: capital gains
51-47

2001, Taxes
58-33

2001, Taxes/Health: med. savings accounts
53-45

2001, Legal Reform: torts
54-42

2000, Taxes
56-44

2000, International: Troops in Kosovo
53-47

2000, CFR: Brad Smith on FEC
65-35

1999, International: Troops in Kosovo
N/A

1999, Spending
N/A

1998, Taxes: tobacco
72-26

1998, Taxes: tobacco
57-42

1998, International: Troops in Bosnia
65-31

John McCain is a liberal no matter how much you attack his critics and avoid defending him. I know, I know, defending him is much harder.

misterpeasea on June 17, 2008 at 8:21 PM

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