Obama deeply disappointed that McCain thinks his wife should be accountable for what she says; Update: Michelle Obama knocks down the “whitey” rumor
posted at 8:36 pm on June 17, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Querying him on things his pastor of 20 years has said is, by his own admission, legitimate. Querying him on things his wife of 20 years has said while on the campaign trail is somehow out of bounds. Ah well. Consider this Exhibit A in why I think it’s a net loss for the GOP to go too hard after Mrs. O: It sets Obama up perfectly to play the good husband.
I mean here’s somebody who’s done everything right. She grew up in modest means. She grew up in a nuclear family. Her parents looked after her. She went to college on a scholarship. She’s worked hard for everything that she has.
She is the best mother I know. She has made repeated sacrifices on behalf of her family and has said that her children and her husband are her number one priority…
I think families are off limits. I would never consider making Cindy McCain a campaign issue, and if I saw people doing that - I would speak out against it. And the fact that I haven’t seen that from John McCain I think is a deep disappointment.
Follow the link for Team McCain’s response noting that Obama didn’t have much to say when Howard Dean demanded to see Cindy McCain’s tax return. McCain has, of course, spoken out against attack ads featuring Wright, although whether that was done (a) in earnest, (b) as a token gesture to keep his own hands clean while a proxy attacked on his behalf, or (c) as a cynical maneuver to drum up even more publicity for the ad is known only to Maverick. Exit question: Is McCain more or less culpable on this point than Obama is vis-a-vis the Democrats’ coded language about McCain’s age?
Update: The Times finally gets it right:
A blogger who supported Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton circulates unfounded claims that Mrs. Obama gave an accusatory speech in her church about the sins of “whitey.” Mrs. Obama shakes her head.
“You are amazed sometimes at how deep the lies can be,” she says in an interview. Referring to a character in a 1970s sitcom, she adds: “I mean, ‘whitey?’ That’s something that George Jefferson would say. Anyone who says that doesn’t know me. They don’t know the life I’ve lived. They don’t know anything about me.”
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This is B.S. They have tried to nail Cindy for some of the things she said on the trail.
Mark my words, the Dems will use this as an excuse to bring up Cindy’s drug abuse, even though it is not even close.
I hope Cindy lets loose, I met her once, she is not a woman I would want to be on the wrong side of.
Squid Shark on June 17, 2008 at 8:42 PM
Speaking of coded language, isn’t Obama belittling his wife here by saying that she basically isn’t accountable for what she says? I would love to see the Hillary-feminists go nuclear on this one.
MB007 on June 17, 2008 at 8:42 PM
Silly me. If Michelle Obama is going to make campaign speeches on behalf of her husband, make statements telling America what they are going to have to do when Obama is president then she is speaking for the campaign and is a legitimate target of response. If Cindy McCain makes campaign speeches and espouses policy then she too is a legitimate target.
Don’t want Michelle criticized? Tell her to stay home and care for the kids she supposedly cares so much about.
johnsteele on June 17, 2008 at 8:43 PM
Yesterday you thought it was lame that McCain didn’t pick up and run with a dig on her from a questioner at a Townhall.
MayBee on June 17, 2008 at 8:44 PM
ps. the left blogs are full of anti-Cindy McCain stuff. I don’t know if that disappoints Obama or not.
MayBee on June 17, 2008 at 8:45 PM
I think that it could be very effectively argued that it is easier and more clearly preferable to leave a church under Reverend Wrights stewardship than it would be to… what… leave?… his wife.
DaveS on June 17, 2008 at 8:46 PM
How petty.
Next.
Dave Rywall on June 17, 2008 at 8:46 PM
Anything that doesn’t benefit Michelle Obama’s children is off the table.
lorien1973 on June 17, 2008 at 8:46 PM
HA HA!
baldilocks on June 17, 2008 at 8:46 PM
It’s not that he didn’t run with it; it’s that he was (or appeared to be) so out of touch with his base that he didn’t even realize what the guy was setting up.
Whether it does or does not, I’d love to see him come out and name the top 5 looney-left (aka mainstream-Democrat) blogs that have “gone too far,” and the gnashing of teeth to follow on said blogs.
Hannibal Smith on June 17, 2008 at 8:49 PM
I understand how you feel, Barack. So now we’re just going to put Cindy McCain out on the campaign trail and have her attack you. With some really bad stuff. I mean, this is gonna be bad. You won’t be allowed to respond and you won’t be allowed to attack back. Just stand there and take it. Got it? Cool.
malan89 on June 17, 2008 at 8:49 PM
The best mother he knows? Is that because his mother pawned him off on her parents? Okay, that is rude. Obama wants all criticism of him and his family off limits.
This is his way of manipulating the topics. Michelle Obama may have grown up in a nuclear family, but her attitude is that of someone who expects everyone to do without now that she has hers. She complains to poor people about the $10,000 she spends on dance lessons, music lessons and activities for her girls. She complains that she has to pay back her student loans.
Obamas are hypocrites.
Skeptic on June 17, 2008 at 8:52 PM
McCain shouldn’t, but the GOP should.
Spirit of 1776 on June 17, 2008 at 8:58 PM
When the wife of a Presidential Candidate says that she’s never been proud of America, I think that’s an important issue .
SoulGlo on June 17, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Let’s see,first Omama threatened,no scratch that,warned
people,no scratch that to,Obama advised not to ask
question’s about his wife!
Now,Obama is saying,whatever and wherever Michelle speaks,
she might not necessarily means what she says,or more to
the point,what she believes!
I’m curious,can I by-pass all the mumbo jumbo,and see
a Michelle content video presentation as to be politically
correct as to ask the appropriate question’s,so as Michelle
doesn’t become offended!
canopfor on June 17, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Oops,thats Obama,not Omama,but it does sound good!
canopfor on June 17, 2008 at 9:04 PM
I would just like to see the candidates be held accoutable for what they themselves say. I’d settle for that.
MB4 on June 17, 2008 at 9:06 PM
She opens her mouth, she’s fair game.
She gives an interview, she’s fair game.
She gives a radio address, she’s fair game.
If she make any kind of statement, she’s fair game.
madmonkphotog on June 17, 2008 at 9:06 PM
If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. - H.S. Truman
diogenes on June 17, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Oh, Come On.
How many people DON’T know by now that rules made by Democrats only apply to Other People?
Merovign on June 17, 2008 at 9:10 PM
At first when I saw “Omama”, I thought that was your nickname for Obama’s “baby mama”.
JadeNYU on June 17, 2008 at 9:10 PM
madmonkphotog
Nail on head with that one. He is still unknown and everything she says relfects on him. When you buy car you have to ask questions and kick the tires.
I think John Kerrys wife hurt him alot as will Barry O’s.
TroubledMonkey on June 17, 2008 at 9:11 PM
“Do as I say, not as I do”.
Worst leadership style imaginable.
Hog Wild on June 17, 2008 at 9:15 PM
The funniest part is on the front page caption (and I may not be alone) I misread it as “She’s not the mother I knew.”
OneGyT on June 17, 2008 at 9:18 PM
I’ve seen some of the liberal trolls pounding on McCain’s wife without mercy. These guys just want it both ways. Like always.
alacrityfitzhugh on June 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM
Here’s an idea…Tell her to shut her big mouth…
This whole thing smacks of HILLARY….blame her. I’m sure there’s no chance of you trying to make policy if Messiah is elected.
Your ‘Man’ is running for the job, not you…But the cat is already out of the bag as far as who wears the penis in your family…
Why doesn’t Obama just put her on the ticket for VP?? That’s who it’s gonna be anyways..
BigWyo on June 17, 2008 at 9:21 PM
At first..
JadeNYU on June 17,2008 at 9:10PM.
JadeNYU:Yup,that was a screw-up,but it sure has a nice
ring to it!
And no,thats not a nickname for Obama’s mama,
I value my life,but dam(n)it does sound good?
ha ha :) :).
canopfor on June 17, 2008 at 9:22 PM
Obama and Omama…I like it!
alacrityfitzhugh on June 17, 2008 at 9:22 PM
When Mrs. Obama is on the campaign trail giving statements and speeches on behalf of her husband and his candidacy, those remarks are fair game-period.
And frankly, I’m tired of all the paralysis by analysis BS. If McCain or anyone else doesn’t have the guts to go after such legitimate targets because their opponent or anyone else wouldn’t like it, or for any other reason, then they need to find another line of work.
tomk59 on June 17, 2008 at 9:27 PM
The whole thing smacks of HILLARY…
BigWyo on June 17,2008 at 9:31PM.
BigWyo: I was thinking the same thing,Hillary’s
chaos revenge?
canopfor on June 17, 2008 at 9:34 PM
Let me play the overanalysis game the way the Libs would….
What about his own mother? Or is she out contention since she’s white?
Under the bus with grandmother, I suppose.
mjk on June 17, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Prepare for the Michelle Obama makeover. It’s coming.
Can’t hide that nasty sneer on her face though. That’s permanent.
Urban Infidel on June 17, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Yeah, but only because Cindy McCain hasn’t made herself a great big ole target by spouting off all sorts of anti-American stuff she’d heard at TUCC. It would be wrong to criticize, for example, the size of Omama’s “baby got back” rear end, but anything MO SAYS on the campaign stump is fair game, just as were the utterances of Tehhhreesah Heinz-Kerry.
marybel on June 17, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Osama babymama IS legitimate fodder, especially since she’s a stupid, vile, ignorant, elitist fool. I’ll tell you how I really feel later!
SouthernGent on June 17, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Obama will go to the pity party every time he’s allowed.
His piss and moan mania should be front and center on some 527 ad campaign.
Speakup on June 17, 2008 at 9:42 PM
If she was like Laura or Barbara Bush, who stayed back and didn’t get into the fray, but she’s not. She’s out there supporting her man and letting us know just how smart she is. I expect any day they will be telling us that we will get 2 for 1. Eh gads, that’s just what we need.
she’s fair game!
Bambi on June 17, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Absolute moral authority.
His whole candidacy is his identity. If his wife, pastor, neighbor, business partners, etc. are not part of his identity, then what is?
pedestrian on June 17, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Unless, of course, she made herself a into a liability.
Duh.
Saltysam on June 17, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Gee, that’s too bad. But people who can’t take responsibility for what they say need to STFU. No matter who they are.
I think I’m going to start sending them kleenexes ever time either one complains that she’s being picked on.
Sniveling pieces of shit from Chicago’s cesspool politics.
sloopy on June 17, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Women need to be seen and not heard.
Right, O?
drjohn on June 17, 2008 at 9:53 PM
That depends on whether she behaves like a good wife and shuts up. Perhaps she’ll make some cookies. I think he’s trying to make the issue go away with this tactic.
If she shoots her mouth off again, it fails.
drjohn on June 17, 2008 at 9:55 PM
duh? where does he come off thinking this…oh wait…
the anointed one…I’m sorry Big “H”…
jerrytbg on June 17, 2008 at 9:56 PM
if Obama thinks that, then he should never again blog on HuffPo, and he should call them out on the filthy attacks they’ve made on Cindy mcCain. They haven’t attacked her remarks, but rather they’ve spread rumors about her, and they’ve libeled her with nasty photoshops and distorted biographical information.
Obama has blogged on HuffPo. His surrogates and supporters blog there, including John Kerry today.
If Obama says wives are off-limits, he and his surrogates must immediately renounce all overt contact with HuffPo.
juliesa on June 17, 2008 at 9:58 PM
What happens if, miracle of miracles, there is an unflattering Michelle tape?
This just in. Obama throws the best mother he knows under the bus.
hillbillyjim on June 17, 2008 at 9:59 PM
I’m serious. if you want to know whether Obama is serious about this, demand that he denounce HuffPo.
juliesa on June 17, 2008 at 10:00 PM
I’m thinking that he got nagged into addressing this again.
baldilocks on June 17, 2008 at 10:03 PM
And as for Michelle, I agree that the contents of her remarks and her basic biography are fair game for scrutiny, but it will backfire if we push too hard.
Let her speeches and her policies speak for themselves. It’s enough for me that her speeches have been filled grievance-mongering about how “mean” America is, and how bad life is. No one wants to see that in a First Spouse.
juliesa on June 17, 2008 at 10:05 PM
.
AP, surely you jest.
There is nothing good nor honorable about what bho is trying to do.
shooter on June 17, 2008 at 10:06 PM
Michelle sounds so plumb-like, as if her life is the hardest of anyone’s.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 10:16 PM
“She is the best mother I know.”
They never met my mother.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 10:18 PM
Ya can’t fix stoopid.
Chakra Hammer on June 17, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Sorry, but that’s a non-denial denial if ever I saw one. Nowhere does it say, “I didn’t say that. There is no such tape.”
Rational Thought on June 17, 2008 at 10:21 PM
This is still not a categorical denial that it never happened. She focuses on the exact word ‘whitey’ rather than the broader accusation that she said something offensive and anti-white at a conference or meeting. She has not yet issued a blanket denial.
I don’t know whether such a tape exists or not but I know if someone accused me of a similar charge I could say, without condition or fudging, that such a thing never happened, that I never said anything of the sort or anything of that nature, that no such tape exists or could exist. Funny how neither she nor Barry never do.
Vote Sauron 08 on June 17, 2008 at 10:26 PM
Didn’t McCain recently say that all spouses should be off limits?
jtorres138 on June 17, 2008 at 10:40 PM
When just being sorry or disappointed is just not enough!
Last month Fr. Pfleger was “deeply sorry” and now Obama is
“deeply disappointed”.
diogenes on June 17, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Exactly! And we can’t wait to hear you clear all that up for us.
Lee on June 17, 2008 at 10:46 PM
Michelle O. is a very opinionated and “strong” woman. She puts something out there, and we can’t say anything about it? At least I have to call her out on refering to “they” who are against her and her husband. They said this, They said that, They said the other thing. It approaches a loony-left conspiratorial mindset. I can’t stay quiet when she slips into that “everyone’s out to get us” mode. It’s creepy and, if she becomes First Lady, it will be destructive to the discourse just like Hillary’s “vast right-wing conspiracy” attitude was.
Paul-Cincy on June 17, 2008 at 10:46 PM
There’s many differences between Michelle and Cindy as far as this election is concerned. Cindy keeps a much lower profile and Michelle is out there campaigning for all she’s worth. Now, in my book that makes Michelle a target whether or not hubby likes it. Michelle brings any criticism and complaint down on herself. The old “can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen” applies here in spades. Sorry Barack, it’s open season unless she shuts up. That’s not likely is it!!
jeanie on June 17, 2008 at 10:52 PM
The spouse of a candidate running for president of the U.S. is fair game. Period.
Barrack does not get to make up the rules as he goes along, but that is such a dhimmicrat thing to do.
4shoes on June 17, 2008 at 10:54 PM
WHAT A NIT-WIT, CHILDISH COMMENT TO MAKE. If your wife is going to go on the stump for you, then she has to watch her mouth, and expect some eggs and tomatoes thrown.
byteshredder on June 17, 2008 at 11:32 PM
OHHHHHH, cry me a FREAKIN river.
These two idiots are so whiny…
We know that you wrote that paper crying about being black at PRINCETON of all places…
Good Lord.
benrand on June 17, 2008 at 11:32 PM
I agree…she gets out there and runs her mouth, she can take care of herself.
surrounded on June 17, 2008 at 11:33 PM
The minute Cindy McCain says something negative about this country she should be held accountable.
Michelle Obama has already said it, many times. Her attitude towards the country she wants to represent is important.
EJDolbow on June 17, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Aw c’mon, Baldi. What great mother wouldn’t put her daughters in front of a screaming racist every Sunday for a couple hours and call it “raising them to love God”?
How could you laugh at that?
Jaibones on June 18, 2008 at 12:08 AM
If Mrs. McCain is stupid enough to say anything as divisive or insulting to Americans as Mrs. Obama has said, she is fair game. But for some reason I don’t expect Cindy to drop a racially insensitive anti-American comment any time soon.
cannonball on June 18, 2008 at 12:19 AM
As long as she is making platform speeches, or is giving interviews, then she deserves to be questioned about what she is saying, or else take her off the campaign trail
ToddonCapeCod on June 18, 2008 at 12:36 AM
If Michelle Obama can’t stand the heat, she should stay out of the kitchen.
Or maybe she should stay in the kitchen, and bake cookies for her dear little daughters, and let Barry make the speeches.
If Michelle is going to be out making speeches, I’ll miss Laura Bush, the elegant and classy half of that marriage.
Steve Z on June 18, 2008 at 12:44 AM
Does anybody really doubt that Michelle would have gladly sat on a panel with Farrakahn’s wife and her ilk and vomited racial smears to the crowd.
Bfunky292 on June 18, 2008 at 12:51 AM
Obama is no different than a schoolyard bully. He’ll run out, or send out his minions to attack, but when confronted himself, he’ll cower in the corner, or go tell the teacher he’s the one being picked on. It is a mental disorder and he has it big time.
Stick it to him; http://www.doomedreport.com
ilitigant on June 18, 2008 at 12:51 AM
You might want to say the same about the yahoos in the Texas GOP, I mean what’s wrong with these idiots anyway?
Here in NY we are appalled and embarrassed. These fools need to leave the party and join that idiot that stole David Duke’s wife, the one who runs Stormfront, and Ron Paul.
Shameful slice of redneck bullying, indeed.
AprilOrit on June 18, 2008 at 1:29 AM
I do, it’s nothing more than a filthy smear and i would say the same if you accused Cindy McCain of sitting on a healthcare panel with Michael Moore.
AprilOrit on June 18, 2008 at 1:31 AM
How about some substance people? You hammer the left all the time for the same, why are you emulating them??
AprilOrit on June 18, 2008 at 1:31 AM
Whoops I spoke to soon - I stand corrected. Thankfully they cut him off and he deserved it.
Don’t like nasty racist humor about blacks or jews, from anyone, but especially not from a member of the party of Lincoln.
That’s a huge no no.
AprilOrit on June 18, 2008 at 1:54 AM
A quick note to Obama..if you don’t want what your wife says attacked keep her off the campaign trail bucko…the GOP needs to be as brutal as they can about what she says as part of the campaign…not personal attacks on her people..but anything she says in her efforts to campaign for her husband is fair game..just as is anything McCain’s wife might say
If Obama has an issue with that then I suggest he withdraw from the race now because speeches she makes on his behalf are fair game
JKotthoff on June 18, 2008 at 2:34 AM
There is a meeting in California of La Raza. Both of us have accepted invitations. I say that we have a town hall meeting together in front of La Raza.
- John McCain
Well that would be their first town hall meeting. So let me see as I already detect the beginning of a pattern here.
Town hall meetings:
1) La Raza.
2) Aryan Brotherhood.
3) KKK.
4) Man Boy Love association.
5) C.A.I.R.
Well, 5 to go.
MB4 on June 18, 2008 at 3:05 AM
labrat on June 18, 2008 at 5:18 AM
When MO gets up to give a stump speech, she is totally accountable for her every word and action. There is no immunity once she opens her pie hole.
If she can’t take the heat, keep her at the house.
old trooper on June 18, 2008 at 6:52 AM
Michelle is the best mother Obama knows. Obama tosses his birth mother under the bus right behind grandma. Féte Accompli. Now he can soak in all that Black Like Me drama that was never his to suffer, only to misappropriate for the white sympathy factor to accomodate the anything black goes factor.
Of course wives are accountable for what they say. That is what equal rights provides. If they don’t want to be held accountable for what they think, they must bite their tongue before spilling the beans.
maverick muse on June 18, 2008 at 7:06 AM
NY AprilOrit self righteous uberstatement passed judgement against all of Texas before thinking the vendor was the instigator and as likely as not, a political operative who knew exactly how to undermine the GOP at their own convention. Cat’s out of the bag.
maverick muse on June 18, 2008 at 7:17 AM
One of the funniest shows on TV EVER.
Dash on June 18, 2008 at 7:35 AM
She’s campaigning.
She’s not a private citizen. She’s fair game.
drjohn on June 18, 2008 at 7:44 AM
Wrong.
I think we really do know you, Michelle. You are a spoiled, sniveling ingrate.
drjohn on June 18, 2008 at 7:50 AM
In spite of the mainstream media’s attempt to resurrect her as a candidate for sainthood, she remains a bitter, hard-core Marxist with a big mouth and limited intellect.
rplat on June 18, 2008 at 8:07 AM
Like trying to nail soup to a wall. Meaning that Mrs. Obama, like everyone else campaigning, can only be criticized for what she has said, not for what she is rumored to have said.
Focus on the record, and forget the Beckel red herrings.
There are plenty of Mr. Obama quotes which, if highlighted, should doom his candidacy. Remember Hugh Hewitt’s book:”If It’s Not Close, They Can’t Cheat”
It shouldn’t even be close. A first term Senator with no experience governing or managing anything? Ridiculous.
If he’s the best that the Dems have to offer, McCain should win by default.
Doug on June 18, 2008 at 8:24 AM
No, he would (and did) say ‘honkey.’
James on June 18, 2008 at 8:28 AM
Anyone who says that doesn’t know me. They don’t know the life I’ve lived. They don’t know anything about me.”
Does this mean that her close friend and adviser that asked her if there was anything to the rumor doesn’t know her and doesn’t know anything about her?
Sue on June 18, 2008 at 9:32 AM
Obama tosses his birth mother under the bus right behind grandma
For good reasons. Obama’s mother wasn’t exactly the role model you would shoot for.
Sue on June 18, 2008 at 9:33 AM
Secretly, Barry wants Michelle in a burqa and at home with the kids. He has enough problems with his own misspoken words.
Farmer62 on June 18, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Dittos
petefrt on June 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Which is why she’s on a media tour this week. Yeah…
Nonfactor on June 18, 2008 at 9:58 AM
If the Obama’s weren’t so niggardly in their own charity, maybe Cindy McCain’s 1.7 Million given to charity in ‘06 would have made a bigger splash in the media.
kirkill on June 18, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Oh grow up already. Stop the frikin’ whining. Politics ain’t bean bag.
Sefton on June 18, 2008 at 10:20 AM
She’s a Princeton educated lawyer… she wants to play in the big leagues of national politics…. and flap her suckhole on controversial issues in a way that makes the majority of Americans bristle…she can either defend her “opinions” or zip it and go iron Osamabama’s shirts.
Alden Pyle on June 18, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Michelle O. said:
They, they, they. (P.S. By the way, “They” in this context is the left-winger Larry Johnson) They’re trying to stop Barack. They said we couldn’t do it. They’re trying to keep me down.
She didn’t say whitey, she probably doesn’t even think whitey, but she’s got the whitey conception firmly lodged in her mind. As Jeremiah Wright would say, she believes the country is run by rich white men who feel entitled and resent any black that does well. That’s one of the many chips on Michelle O’s shoulder.
Paul-Cincy on June 18, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Better then the single mother who had to raise you after your deadbeat dad left? Or does the whole white issue make you think shes not that great?
No word from Obama about people making a joke about Cindy and her drug problems, About how the C-word rummor mill keeps running, about how they attack her conection to Busch, yet she doesn’t go and give speeches, doesn’t say she was only proud of her country when they support her husband.
McCain has come out against hateful ads against Obama, yet Obama doesn’t come out against Moveon.org ads or any of the other hate the left spews, hell Obama is the one turning the hate wheel to the tune of “Ye old 100 years O War”
Rbastid on June 18, 2008 at 11:12 AM
What cat? There is not mention of the vendor being an instigator or a political operative at all. He was a Texas Republican. LOL
AprilOrit on June 18, 2008 at 11:17 AM
If the Obama’s weren’t so niggardly in their own charity, maybe Cindy McCain’s 1.7 Million given to charity in ‘06 would have made a bigger splash in the media.
kirkill on June 18, 2008 at 10:17 AM
oh, i love that word, and absolutely used within context. still, it’ll get you killed said in front of the wrong crowd.
DrW on June 18, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Media tour
For media as paramour
Whatever she’ll say
The same she’ll stay
Because we all have a core
“I yam who I yam” - - Michelle Obama
We all are who we are and we don’t get repeated options to introduce ourselves, except in Schlaraffenland. This is the real world. Neither will Michelle O. That train left the station, much to many’s chagrin.
Entelechy on June 18, 2008 at 1:03 PM
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