Video: Jindal supports teaching of intelligent design
posted at 1:37 pm on June 16, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Qualified by the usual caveat, of course. He won’t say which theory he favors (beyond acknowledging some unknown role of the creator), but clearly he’s sufficiently sold on ID that he thinks it merits being laid in front of kids as an alternative to evolution. Which is a dodge, really, in the same way that the Truthers’ irritating “just asking questions” defense is a dodge: It uses the spirit of free inquiry as a way to avoid the threshold question of how credible any theory has to be to end up in the curriculum. Doubtless there are far left parents (and far right, per the Paulnuts) who wouldn’t mind seeing competing theories of 9/11 taught in history class so that kids can “make up their own minds,” but that ain’t likely to happen. Or actually, given the orientation of teachers’ unions, maybe it is. Stay tuned!
The politics of this issue are convoluted — majorities want both evolution and creationism taught, but roughly twice as many voters are less likely to vote for creationist politicians than more likely — so Jindal’s non-answer is the safe way to play it. But can we please, at least, lay off the federalist rhetoric he uses here until it’s settled whether ID violates the Establishment Clause or not? It’s a fine conservative idea that local school boards should have more power than state boards or the DOE, but constitutional violations are constitutional violations all the way down the chain, federalism or no. Jindal surely knows that too, which I guess makes that his second dodge.
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The Ben Stein movie thread did, twice over iirc. I think it’s over, personally. :|
Anna on June 17, 2008 at 3:32 PM
I knew it.
My collie says:
Er.. not that there’s anything wrong with that.
CyberCipher on June 17, 2008 at 3:57 PM
In your link there is some grudging acknolwedgement from the Discovery Instutute of the “intermediate” nature of Ambulocetus: “But let’s acknowledge that theses fossils do have some skeletal characteristics which appear intermediate between the features of land-mammals and whales.”
I don’t agree with an assumption that “We have the fossils…We win” and someone like Gould wouldn’t have either. There are still a lot of questions unanswered. Luskin’s point about the time-frame for sufficient mutations is a good one, though he’d likely be wrong to assume that the reproductive maturity for Ambulocetus was the same as that for a modern whale.
dedalus on June 17, 2008 at 4:06 PM
http://controversy.wearscience.com/design/turtle/
Why not teach the real truth? That the world is shaped like a disc, balanced on the backs of 4 elephants, which stand on a turtle swimming throughout the universe?
Why aren’t we teaching my beliefs as though they were real?
gekkobear on June 17, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Cyber, your Collie wouldn’t approve.
Wasn’t he/she against “rude, inconsiderate, and boorish”?
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 4:13 PM
I forgot to say that my shelties told me to send a message to your Collie, with friendly wags of their tales.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Fantastic. I am buying that messenger bag :)
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Collies are teh ghey Timotei mincing poofters of the dog world – who cares what they say?
PS. I hope the Timotei reference translates OK….
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Hey, Limey, this is a friendly reminder, from a friendly to you corner, Collies and shelties are adorable, even if some are eunuchs :)
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Wrongo you heretic! Here lies the truth of thruths for those who have the meat balls to see it.
http://www.venganza.org/
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 4:20 PM
this points up the problems between morphological and molecular phylogenies. Which do you use?
The conflict between morphological and molecular phylogenies continues, and the problem is bigger than whales. In 2007, British scientists analyzed 181 molecular and 49 morphological trees and observed that “molecular and morphological phylogenies often seem to be at odds with each other.” 17
link
right4life on June 17, 2008 at 4:22 PM
“One of the hardest things to do as a scientist is to put my personal beliefs aside when discussing matters of science. So as a professional, I have to say that both forms of Intelligent Design – ID and ID-FSM are equally valid and if intelligent design is taught in schools, equal time should be given to the FSM theory and the non-FSM theory. But, speaking personally now, it seems to me the FSM theory is MUCH more plausable than the non-FSM ID theory, because it is the only one of the two that takes into account all the discrepancies between ID and measureable objective reality.”
– Professor Douglas Shaw, Ph.D
Here here.
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 4:23 PM
I’m only funnin’ buddy ;) I’m an all-round animal lover (not in that way), except for toy dogs…..I kick those f’ers.
I jest.
Not by much.
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:24 PM
I hope all you atheists have a good laugh over FSM now…it may be much more difficult later…
right4life on June 17, 2008 at 4:27 PM
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Thanks for the laugh. I needed one today.
Is there a female version of buddy? Or is it the same? Before someone calls me a beta or an effeminate male, I’m a hot-blooded female, who loves real men, Collies, shelties, and all animals (yes, not in that way, not even kicking the stuffed ones :). I wonder if that will condemn me to hell now…
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Pastafarianism Explained.
http://www.venganza.org/flash/guidetopastafarianismpreloaded.swf
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 4:32 PM
ronsfi, darling, you’re going to drive the numbers up, here :), and you’re sinking from level “hot”, to level “hotter”.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 4:34 PM
I hate the FSM. He creeps me out. I wish they had come up with something a little less messy looking. Ick.
Anna on June 17, 2008 at 4:39 PM
I love the comparison Allah uses to Trutherism. As though they are anywhere near being in the same category. You are teh smart Allah. Also, you can never have too many “ID or Creationism is not science”. As though simply stating this makes it fact. To you maybe, but here in reality these hypothesis are tested through observational science as much as evolution can be tested, if not more so. It is convenient for someone to say something isn’t science, but it is the presuppositions of the researcher that determines the interpretation of the data. So, it’s simply a matter of which dude with a PHD are you going to choose to believe. . . . because neither can prove through science that their respective theories are fact.
Vaporman87 on June 17, 2008 at 4:43 PM
I didn’t realise you were a lass, actually….sorry about that….I meant no offense.
Your online moniker “Entelechy” doesn’t give away much…..which is probably a smart choice!
What the heck does “Entelechy” mean anyway?
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Sorry. I must confess that I was only trying to provoke the homunculus troglodyte (MB4) into telling me that Barry Goldwater (and everyone else) should “line-up and kick my a$$”. It makes me laugh.
My collie says:
BTW, MB4, I was there — I witnessed the 1964 Presidential election. Were you even born yet?
My collie says:
CyberCipher on June 17, 2008 at 4:44 PM
It’s true…I am hot. ~8/*
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 4:47 PM
just thought i’d add one more to bump this thing closer to the 1k mark. unbelievable that this topic is so explosive.
pecan pie on June 17, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Guess I’m late to the party.
Intelligent Design has no place in school.
CABE on June 17, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Oh man. FSM again.
Organized Atheism has to be one of the more entertaining things in modern society. I think Ace from AoSHQ put it rather well:
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Irrational religious beliefs tend to leave the psyche unprepared and volatile.
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:51 PM
So does being a godless heathen with NO MORALS whatsoEVAH!1!11!!!one!eleventy
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:53 PM
You still here Limey? and you’ve got a narcissistic ronsfi to join in the free-love!
Perfect. In a perfectly ordered world.
The only reason 1000 matters to you, is because of the orderly way God gave us 10 fingers. Okay, 8 fingers + 2 thumbs. Otherwise, you’d have been satisfied with 640 posts.
kirkill on June 17, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Shoot, LGF’s post got up into the 1600s. Slackers.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Nice quote. I don’t simply “not believe in God”, I absolutely refute the very possibility of godlike entities.
It’s all inane, incoherent, primitive babble.
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Actually, I’m happier with 1024
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM
No offense noticed, and none to be taken. I would have “realised” that you’re a Limey from the spelling of this word, alone :), your nom de plume aside.
It’s a smart choice, but it gives away a lot, but not that it’s male or female. I was called this, before I knew what it meant – I did not pick it myself.
Heh, you must look it up. It’s hard to explain. To me it means to constantly seek, learn, research, question, but to never be finished. It means much more than that, among other things the very thin line between being, and not being, and goes back to Socrates.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 4:57 PM
ronsfi, my incorrigible one – now you’re sinking to an even hotter level in hell. Not to worry, you won’t be alone, will have to work hard, but have much fun. You’ll be shocked whom you’re going to run into. They will be more shocked than you :)
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Saying “ID has no place in school”, is putting the blinders on students with a real curiosity. The only thing you fear is that they might seek to find out the real truth, which you happen to disagree with.
Don’t worry, once Obambi and the Democrats get full control, you won’t have to deal with us ignernt Christians anymore, the separation from our free speech will be complete with a Constitutional Amendment to exterminate us. Then you can create the Utopia where nobody believes anything anymore. And there will be no more violence, and no more hate. Fools.
kirkill on June 17, 2008 at 4:59 PM
Don’t make me fatwa you.
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 17, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Exactly what IS a LimeyGeek anyhow?
My collie says:
Yeah, but we kept a good number of their Hessian mercenaries because they don’t fight like girls (like a Limey).
CyberCipher on June 17, 2008 at 5:00 PM
You learn something new every day
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Can I be any more literal?
LimeyGeek on June 17, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Cyber, I will convey the note to my little and adorable ones, who’re to die for cute.
Glad you saw your wrong turn because I like both you and your Collie a lot.
On MB4, please recall that he served a few tours in the 60s, in the Army, in Vietnam, and therefore would have had to be old enough.
My shelties say
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 5:04 PM
But by all means throw out ANY idea that doesn’t comport with your superior understanding of the world.
kirkill on June 17, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Hahaha! And here is my tormentor! It’s gona be hell!
http://home.att.net/~thft/hotstuff.gif
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Oh no. This is who you get:
http://papundits.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/global-warming-gore-fire.jpg
TheUnrepentantGeek on June 17, 2008 at 5:09 PM
I knew you could do it, easily :)
CC’s Collie, tell your master to put his sharp hat on today – Limey (Brit) Geek (self-evident).
kirkill, contrary to you, I don’t find people who don’t agree with my view to be imbecils who’ll burn in hell. You believe your thing, I believe mine, others do the same. It’s America and we’re free to do so, yet. I hope we’ll never lose that privilage.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 5:09 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2818153038273514237
The Dawn of the Universe
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 5:13 PM
ronsfi, have your shovels ready. I think the little diabolito is harmless, compard to the Goracle from TheUnrepentantGeek. It sure is the meeting of the geeks, here, isn’t it? :)
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 5:14 PM
The motives of Truthers and Creationists clealry aren’t similar. However, one does see certain parallels in their arguments. Most noteably, “ID” proponents often lament the fact that there is seemingly no tolerance for the exploration of “alternative theories” to the established norm. This is reminiscent of Truthers demanding that people be “open minded” about what happened on 9/11, or their insistance that they’re “just asking questions.” When the “alternative theories” are apparently false (to the extent that they’re even theories at all) and the questions being asked appear to already have been answered (at least to an extent that they leave little doubt as to the correct direction for further inquiry), one can’t help but suspect there’s a certain degree of disingenuity at work.
Blacklake on June 17, 2008 at 5:19 PM
Bah! My God command us to make merry and has a generous sense of humor in addition to being covered in a delicious garlic pomodoro sauce.
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Limey, that should have been Aristotle, not Socrates. I was wrong. I will be punished, here, or there.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 5:21 PM
Can you say with absolute certainty that there is no gold in China? To do so, you must have absolute knowledge, which you do not have.
It is possible that there is evidence out there which proves the existence of God, and you have not found it yet. Until you have attained absolute knowledge, then you cannot say with certainty that there is no God.
The fact that you implicitly admit that you have no desire to seek this knowledge, but are instead clinging blindly to your predispositions and pronouncing judgment in a premature manner, discredits anything you might say on the subject. That is definitely not a scientific attitude. You, my friend, are trusting in your atheism by faith, and not by scientific knowledge.
fossten on June 17, 2008 at 5:24 PM
For the record, I never said id, as you highlit it, should be taught, or not, in schools. I’m a federalist all the way. To each’s state, all
5750 of them.Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 5:25 PM
You don’t have to agree with that, and obviously you don’t. Hope you’re right. But by way of firm reply, you just make fun of Hell with FSM ridiculousness, and basically say that anyone who believes that is an imbecile. Isn’t that about the same thing you are condemning?
I hope not too, but let me tell you, sitting over here on the Christian side of the house, we’re losing more freedom everyday because of secular politically correct mumbo jumbo in the courts than you’ll ever lose.
kirkill on June 17, 2008 at 5:29 PM
It’s time for you evolutionists to start explaining and defending your REAL BELIEFS…not just the ones Baal taught you to deceive the masses with.
Now that it has been proven beyond a doubt that Chuck Darwin’s grandpa, Erasmus Darwin,was an illuminati member/Baal worshipper, and was told by Baal to propagate the false theory of evolution in order to destroy Christianity..you evolutionists have some explaining to do.
I want to hear you explain and defend your real beliefs and show us why we should teach them in our schools.
For example:
A. If aliens/fallen angels/Baal came to earth and created man through the “evolutionary process”..how does that explain how the “aliens” came into being?
B. If you accept that the “aliens”/fallen angels were created by God and rebelled against Him..why should we trust their testimony over the God who created the universe?
C.Why is it acceptable for you to use deception to propagate your Baal worship? It’s obvious that you do not believe that there is no God..why do you use atheism to spread your Baal worship? Why not just explain your real beliefs and be proud of them?
D. Why does Baal require man to sacrifice babies to him and how often do we have to make human sacrifices to him? Daily? Weekly? Monthly?
Please explain.
If you want Baal worship to be taught in our schools..you should be able to clearly explain and defend your beliefs in order for them to thrive in the marketplace of ideas.
SaintOlaf on June 17, 2008 at 5:39 PM
kirkill, I have never voiced my beliefs in gods, or against them on HA, as concerns my search (and it isn’t over). Most of these threads I’ve avoided because they bring little to one side or the other. Now, if the discussions would go on in a fairly civilized debate it might be interesting. All I know is that I don’t know. I doubt that it will be conclusive by the time I die. I’ve read about it from just about every perspective, including much of where you’re coming from.
However, I’ve observed others being called names, like being irrational, with no morals, and all kinds of ad hominems, both for believing, and for not believing in gods. It’s then that I sometimes join. You can check it out – I’m surprised that I broke down to get into these threads of late. I used to just avoid them. Like all other topics, it’s often just one comment, a line, or a few, which peak my interest.
You’ll find that I’ve been called quite a few things here. I’ve tried hard to be accommodating to the most varied among us, as I’m not your run-of-the-mill common personality (those bore me the most). Some understand, some don’t, and we move on.
To your comment on losing our liberties – I think it has more to do with there being more Pauls than Peters, and it is easier to be the former. Socialism first, then Marxism.
btw – I lived in Marxism, and most politicians there were closet religious people. This is why I don’t like the stupid argument that Marxists killed in the name of lack of religion. They didn’t. They killed for their power, solely.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 5:45 PM
You left off the sarcasm tag. Either that, or you’re a plant trying to make Christianity look bad.
Bobbertsan on June 17, 2008 at 5:49 PM
Good deal, Entelechy. You are a well reasoned individual. I suppose Limey got more of my ire up.
See you on the OTHER posts!
kirkill on June 17, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Sounds good kirkill.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Come join the Illuminaughty! Come play with us Tommy, Come play with us…for evah and evah and evah…
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 6:04 PM
Now that’s a commandment I can obey. Ramen!
RushBaby on June 17, 2008 at 6:56 PM
It is simple. One side looks at the evidence and draws conclusions from it. These conclusions even change over time as more evidence and facts are revealed. The other side has a firm conclusion that never changes and the proof of their theory lies only in finding evidence that gets the other side to admit their ideas are not perfect (so what?). Look in the thread above you can find people attempting to indict the idea of conclusions, and the evidence they are based on, changing over time as some kind of a logical flaw. I would suggest if you can not imagine modifying what you believe when new evidence is presented then it is your point of view that is flawed.
Resolute on June 17, 2008 at 7:11 PM
Well said.
backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 7:23 PM
A Baal made aliens, too.
B Baal rewards human sacrifice. Baal works. What has God done? I try goats, kittens, babies. Nothing.
C If people knew the horrible truth behind evolution we wouldn’t be able to lure them to the sacrificial altar.
D I dunno. Babies just taste better, I guess.
Hope that helps.
RightOFLeft on June 17, 2008 at 8:11 PM
Here’s the thing: if we didn’t teach evolution, its conceivable that another generation of scientists, looking at the same evidence that we look at, might come up with the same theory of evolution that most of us now hold.
However, if we didn’t teach people the Bible, its extremely unlikely they would come to the same “God” conclusion that you believe in. They might invent some other kind of god (like the lords of kobol!) but they probably won’t agree with your idea of God. And then who’s right, you or them?
Like somebody said before… there’s going to be a lot of disappointed HotAirians if it turns out the Muslims or the Hindus or the Shintos were right after all.
e-pirate on June 17, 2008 at 8:33 PM
Whoa whoa whoa whoa…. stop blowing our secret plans for world domination and the subjugation of all humanity to Baal’s bloodthirsty desires.
Olaf has caught on to us, us Baal worshipers obviously need to be more discreet. Friday night’s baby sacrifice ritual is hereby postponed. As is Sunday’s ice cream social. Sorry guys.
e-pirate on June 17, 2008 at 8:36 PM
Quick quiz question:
Among the followers three groups:
(a) Creationists
(b) Truthers
(c) Holocaust Deniers
Which is the odd one out and why?
The first person to figure this out wins a free cheesecake which will be sent by airmail.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 8:39 PM
My bad. Hopefully the goat orgy is still on for Saturday.
RightOFLeft on June 17, 2008 at 8:46 PM
But, I have nothing else to do now on Friday nights without the baby sacrifice! Oh, Lords of Kobol, be swift with the return of BSG… I’ll throw in a pre-marianaded toddler to boot!
/keeping thread alive, yeah, I know I’m being ignored.
Answer (a) – the second two groups protest the truth of something that was witnessed by untold numbers of people (9/11 and the Holocaust have been recorded in a number of media by a number of people who were there). Nobody save for the Creator was around for Creation. That is why they are the odd one out.
Anna on June 17, 2008 at 8:46 PM
Where has that been proven? Links? References?
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Are you really giving out cheesecakes?
DaveS on June 17, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Thank you. Your cheesecake is in the mail. I would have also accepted that the second two groups are showing gargantuan insensitivity to the victims’ families of acts of mass murder.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 8:50 PM
If I win the cheesecake, you can send it to DaveS. I can’t eat them anyway, I just liked the question.
Anna on June 17, 2008 at 8:50 PM
Are you lactose intolerant? You’d better watch out for liberals – they’re against all forms of intolerance.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 8:59 PM
There are more similarities than differences. (ok, maybe that was my feeble attempt to get this thing past 1000, but it’s true).
RightOFLeft on June 17, 2008 at 9:01 PM
Yes, they’re intolerance intolerant.
backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Yeah. And yet, I eat coffee ice cream. I’m a glutton for punishment like that.
I was putting the kids to bed, else I would have posted that same thing.
Anna on June 17, 2008 at 9:09 PM
I’m almost sorry I beat you to it, Anna. But I figured I’d try to lend a hand on getting this thread to 1000. I’ve actually read every comment.
backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 9:12 PM
That is so easy.
(a) Creationists
MB4 on June 17, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Oh drat, someone beat me to it. Early bird gets the
wormcheesecake.MB4 on June 17, 2008 at 9:16 PM
Runner up.
Second prize is a engraved, wooden statue of Baal.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Here is some info on Erasmus Darwin from the freemasons own website.
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/darwin_e/darwin_e.html
He was also involved with the Jacobin Masons(who along with the illuminati,helped form the brutal occult french revolution) and was also a member of the bavarian illuminati.
Here is a video you morbid evolutionists may like.
It is about CHARLES DARWIN’S COUSIN, the father of eugenics..Sir Francis Galton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufqOe0_pres
SaintOlaf on June 17, 2008 at 9:29 PM
Join The Illuminaughty and have a Baal!
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 9:30 PM
Dude, I just snorted pop-tart because of that! It’s just as unpleasant as it sounds, btw. Best comment of thread.
Alright folks, goodnight to all. It’s been fun.
Anna on June 17, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Thank you.
I will look at the links you provided.
I have to say, I have been reading internet articles today on the “Illuminati” and I find that said articles do not stand up to scrutiny. Even if one takes a mental leap and assumes the assertions to be true there are lots of factual and logical errors upon examination.
If you could provide your own info on the topic which you consider credible I will read it.
You also mentioned way back something about the creation of psychiatry as an anti-Christian philosophy(?). I’ve vaguely heard something like this before but would read any articles you could link to.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Do you have any bronze statues of Saint Olaf waving His arms and sending people to Hell?
MB4 on June 17, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Just to clarify. One of the famous lines from the Bible is “Judge not lest ye be judged.” This is widely assumed to mean that you should not judge a person’s behaviour, which is false. What it actually means is that a believer should not tell someone they are going to Hell. Its God’s decision and no one should presume to know His judgement. Every time SaintOlaf consigns someone to Hell he is committing a sin according to the Bible.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Silly! His full body aluminum jumper and the disembodied voice that lives in his pants render him invisible to the human eye…except for when he wets himself. Even then only the nurses can see him.
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 10:01 PM
so say we all
e-pirate on June 17, 2008 at 10:02 PM
Only 15 comments to 1000 – don’t let the new thread deter us – keep this going.
ronsfi, aengus, MB4 and SaintOlaf, we can do it by ourselves! All others are, of course, welcome.
Entelechy on June 17, 2008 at 10:11 PM
We ought to be able to Baalcrap with each other enough to put it over the top.
backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 10:13 PM
Absolutely. Why stop now?
BTW I should point out that, like SaintOlaf, I believe in the existence of demonic evil and I also believe that Baal was either an agent of Satan or Satan himself in disguise.*
What I object to is SaintOlaf’s ridiculous assertions that HA commenters who believe in evolution or disbelieve in God de facto privately sacrifice children, worship Baal and are consciously devoted to evil.
*I believe the same thing about Allah (not the blogger, silly).
I read somewhere (jihadwatch I think) that mainstream Islamic scholars agree that Satan was present when Allah allegedly revealed to Mohammed his duty (and the duty of all Muslims) to “kill the unbelievers wherever ye find them.” I would ask if Muslims have ever considered the implications of this but then their religion precludes them from engaging in critical thought.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 10:26 PM
I hope my (over?)serious comments don’t discourage anyone. The Baal puns are funny. Keep ‘em coming.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 10:38 PM
I’m still at it aengus. One of the things that has always exasperated me about some of the people arguing against evolution from a religious point of view is they falsely accuse scientists of behaving in a religious manner (they take things on faith) and denigrate them on that basis, then give religion a pass on the same kind of behavior.
backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 10:44 PM
There are lots of transitional forms. In a sense, all life is transitional.
‘Punctuated equilibrium’ does not mean life changed in the blink of an (human) eye. Natural selection operates at different rates at different times. Geologically a PE radiation can take tens, hundreds of thousands of years. Humans if they were living at the time would never notice. They would be convinced that God (or The Gods) had put all the animals and plants into their immutable forms forever and ever.
What is it with these religionists who are so insecure in their faith that they are threatened by the facts of biological evolution? If the Bible said the Earth were flat, would they deny that it is round? Well, yes. The Church thought the Earth was the center of universe; to say otherwise was heresy. To today’s religionists, the facts of evolution and the theories of natural selection are a monstrous heresy. If they had the wherewithal, they would doubtless put all the scientists to the stake and the fire.
Is this mindset at all superior to that of the Islamists, who find any deviation from the faith to be heresy requiring execution? They are just different degrees of barbarism.
MrLynn on June 17, 2008 at 10:48 PM
I think that, for all their efforts to deny the credibility of science and the evidence it presents, the religionists are very aware of how much credibility science actually has. That is what leads to the fearfulness. I think ID is partly an effort to gain some of the same kind of credibility for the creationist view.
backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 10:56 PM
That is a reasonable objection.
I do not argue against anything on scientific grounds because I wouldn’t have a clue what I’m talking about. I’m not a big contributor to Evolution/Creationism threads in general.
I am mainly interested in philosophical discussions related to Christianity.
I argue, from a religious point of view, that the challenge to “prove God exists” is not reasonable because absolute proof of God, if achieved, would negate the free will of mankind.
I came to this conclusion from reading The Grand Inquisitor by Dostoyevsky. You will understand what I mean if you read it.
I believe that the world was created in seven days (really six days, God rested on the seventh day) but I am not interested in proving it. I take it on faith.
I recommend this article:
Genesis: Relic Or Relevant?
It doesn’t attempt to prove anything.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:08 PM
does this still count for trying to get the count over a thousand?
DaveC on June 17, 2008 at 11:09 PM
Six, no, Five more posts..
DaveC on June 17, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Hyperbole.
This “mindset” is a fiction bred from your imagination so its up to you what it means.
Also, there is no such thing as am “Islamist”. Islam is a religion. Its adherents are call themselves Muslims, not Islamists.
aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:12 PM
Not necessarily. The religious beliefs that I was brought up with said that God gave man a choice of whether to do his will. It was a decision not to obey God’s rules that led to eviction from the Garden of Eden.
backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 11:15 PM
by the way, ‘Small Gods’ is a GREAT book by Terry Prachett..
doing what I can to boost this over 1K
DaveC on June 17, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Albert Einstein
ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 11:20 PM
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