Video: Jindal supports teaching of intelligent design

posted at 1:37 pm on June 16, 2008 by Allahpundit

Qualified by the usual caveat, of course. He won’t say which theory he favors (beyond acknowledging some unknown role of the creator), but clearly he’s sufficiently sold on ID that he thinks it merits being laid in front of kids as an alternative to evolution. Which is a dodge, really, in the same way that the Truthers’ irritating “just asking questions” defense is a dodge: It uses the spirit of free inquiry as a way to avoid the threshold question of how credible any theory has to be to end up in the curriculum. Doubtless there are far left parents (and far right, per the Paulnuts) who wouldn’t mind seeing competing theories of 9/11 taught in history class so that kids can “make up their own minds,” but that ain’t likely to happen. Or actually, given the orientation of teachers’ unions, maybe it is. Stay tuned!

The politics of this issue are convoluted — majorities want both evolution and creationism taught, but roughly twice as many voters are less likely to vote for creationist politicians than more likely — so Jindal’s non-answer is the safe way to play it. But can we please, at least, lay off the federalist rhetoric he uses here until it’s settled whether ID violates the Establishment Clause or not? It’s a fine conservative idea that local school boards should have more power than state boards or the DOE, but constitutional violations are constitutional violations all the way down the chain, federalism or no. Jindal surely knows that too, which I guess makes that his second dodge.

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backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 11:15 PM

Thats not really what I’m getting at. Yes Adam and Eve were given the choice but atheists can always claim that they are mythical figures.

What if all of us knew without a shadow of a doubt that God existed? What would life be like then? This was what struck me about the Dostoyevsky piece although you might take away something completely different from it.

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:22 PM

By the way aengus, I’ll take the time to read the article you suggested at length after we reach 1000 posts, which I believe we just did.

backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM

ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 11:20 PM

Yes Einstein’s theory of relativity was mentioned in the article I linked but who is to say that he is best equipped to interpret and understand the existential and theological implications of his theory?

Albert Einstein was not a theologian. His statements on war and peace are quite silly – he gets quoted by hippies on bumper stickers.

Only modern man would conclude that because someone was a genius in their field that their opinion on every topic is worth listening to.

For instance should I defer to Einstein on the method for making a good cup of tea? Well he was a genius you know…

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:28 PM

1002 last count..

DaveC on June 17, 2008 at 11:30 PM

By the way aengus, I’ll take the time to read the article you suggested at length after we reach 1000 posts, which I believe we just did.

backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM

Huurrraayyyy!!! Happpy 1000 comments! :)

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:30 PM

The article struck me as sophistry. But I’m not really the best person to be debating such matters. I have a brother who is a minister and he loves to engage in discussions of theological matters. I’m more at home in the realm of science.

backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 11:31 PM

For instance should I defer to Einstein on the method for making a good cup of tea? Well he was a genius you know…

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:28 PM

Einstein was German(or Austrian.. can’t remember) Listen to Limey Geek or some other Brit on how to make tea..

Or me..

Get the water hot.. just under boiling.. pour some in the cup, swish it around to warm up the cup, empty the cup.. place the bag of tea in the cup, then pour some more water in.. steep to taste.. enjoy.

DaveC on June 17, 2008 at 11:33 PM

Huurrraayyyy!!! Happpy 1000 comments! :)

I knew we could do it. May Allahpundit forgive us if we ever do it again. :)

backwoods conservative on June 17, 2008 at 11:35 PM

Thank you DaveC,

I am just glad that you did not recommend adding sugar which I regard as the ultimate heresy in tea-making. Tea is supposed to taste bitter.

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:37 PM

I knew we could do it. May Allahpundit forgive us if we ever do it again. :)

Hahaha!

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 10:26 PM

IF they actually understood their religion and were intellectually honest, they WOULD be sacrificing children to Baal.

The point is: it is even more foolish of them to not understand the origins of their religion but still believe and defend the very faith that was only built to deceive the foolish masses, such as themselves.

Man up to it and OWN IT.

If it is about human sacrifices to Baal…get to it!

You wouldn’t want your fellow satanists to accuse you of being a false convert..

If you don’t like it, leave your foolish and false ideology behind and come on home to the Truth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezab0vRXpXM

I don’t necessarily think the commentors here practice human sacrifice(though some wouldn’t surprise me if they did).

We all know how one serves the devil..we serve him with sin.

I can show you all day long that the people who founded and maintained the unscientific theory of evolution were illuminati Baal worshippers and the inventors of eugenics.

If that doesn’t phase you, nothing will.

If you still profess atheism after learning that evolution is false, then the only reason you reject the truth is because you do not want to leave your “comfort zone” and give up your life of sin that you love.

SaintOlaf on June 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM

the sweet should come from a biscuit or a cookie of sort.. to be enjoyed with the tea..

sugar’s for coffee..

DaveC on June 17, 2008 at 11:39 PM

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:28 PM

Wow I said all that? I thought it was just a quote.

ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 11:40 PM

Wow I said all that? I thought it was just a quote.

Hahaha, sorry. I assumed thats what you were you implying. I got a little ahead of myself.

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:41 PM

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:41 PM

That would be an appeal to authority and hence a logical fallacy.

ronsfi on June 17, 2008 at 11:43 PM

That would be an appeal to authority and hence a logical fallacy.

Fair enough.

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 11:50 PM

SaintOlaf on June 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM

Wow.

You wouldn’t want your fellow satanists to accuse you of being a false convert..

You are really messed up. I’m a Christian.

I agreed with you that Baal is a Satanic influence and warned against the influence of demonic evil at the risk of being ridiculed by my “fellow satanists” yet you slap me in the face and defame me in the eyes of God by implying that my faith isn’t real because I don’t automatically buy into your extra-Biblical crackpot theories.

Yes the devil is served by sin… and the greatest sin is Pride. Yet you behave as if you are God and have the authority to damn anyone you please. I will pray for you.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM

Sir Aengus you should take your battle with SaintOlaf so similar to mine with my equally dastardly foe Moriarty over to the new thread on *Louisiana science coalition begs Jindal: Veto the creationism bill* as the game is now afoot over there.

Holmes on June 18, 2008 at 12:09 AM

aengus, you are a very intelligent and well reasoned gentleman. I love reading your posts, even those we’re sometimes at odds over.

p.s. I don’t know if you ever saw my reply to the loss of your mother. I had expressed sorrow, and had conveyed to you that I also lost mine, to cancer, at the age of 13, when she was only 33.

Entelechy on June 18, 2008 at 12:12 AM

I will pray for you.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM

You try praying for him. I will try electroshock therapy. Bobby Jindal can try an exorcism. Then we will compare results.

Sigy on June 18, 2008 at 12:14 AM

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 12:07 AM

I wasn’t talking about you just so you know.

SaintOlaf on June 18, 2008 at 12:16 AM

I don’t think I’ll do much with the new thread. I got enough out of this one.

‘Night all!

backwoods conservative on June 18, 2008 at 12:19 AM

aengus, you are a very intelligent and well reasoned gentleman. I love reading your posts, even those we’re sometimes at odds over.

Only about 90% of time. Lol.

p.s. I don’t know if you ever saw my reply to the loss of your mother. I had expressed sorrow, and had conveyed to you that I also lost mine, to cancer, at the age of 13, when she was only 33.

Yes I did see that, thank you. I appreciate it. I’m sorry for your loss.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 12:21 AM

I wasn’t talking about you just so you know.

In that case I am not personally offended but I do not retract my criticism of you that you behave as if you are an arbiter of judgment and consign people to Hell with a prideful certainty. The Bible explicitly warns believers against this and yet you persist in it.

How do you know that Tim Russert is boiling in hell? All the newspaper reports said that he was a believing Christian and a good man yet you judged him according to your own standards. He may be in heaven right now laughing at you. It is up to God to decide and no one else. That is what the Bible teaches.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 12:27 AM

Quick quiz question:

Among the followers three groups:

(a) Creationists
(b) Truthers
(c) Holocaust Deniers

Which is the odd one out and why?…

aengus on June 17, 2008 at 8:39 PM

The correct answer, in principle, is (a), as both Truthers and Holocaust Deniers are at least talking about empirical events. However, since they willfully ignore all evidence that refutes their respective positions, the effective result is the same as if they were making metaphysical assertions. They have their set of statements and they aren’t going to stop uttering them, reason be damned. “Fire cannot melt steel!” could well be viewed as a statement from Truther scripture.

I would not imply that Creationists are on an equivalent moral footing with Truthers or Holocaust deniers, however. They simply seem to be in a similar psychological rut when it comes to their treatment of certain core beliefs.

Blacklake on June 18, 2008 at 12:32 AM

Sir Aengus you should take your battle with SaintOlaf so similar to mine with my equally dastardly foe Moriarty over to the new thread on *Louisiana science coalition begs Jindal: Veto the creationism bill* as the game is now afoot over there.

Holmes on June 18, 2008 at 12:09 AM

Hahaha.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 12:32 AM

SaintOlaf,
This book may interest you: “Beyond Opinion” by Ravi Zacharias. I can see that you’re taking the first part of 1 Peter 3:15 to heart, but remember the last part: “do this with gentleness and respect.” Remember what Paul said, “If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” ~1 Cor 13:2. Encourage, not belittle. Help, not attack. Winning the argument is good, but only if the other side is listening to what you have to say. And remember: don’t quit. Godspeed.

Send_Me on June 18, 2008 at 12:35 AM

Blacklake on June 18, 2008 at 12:32 AM

I don’t think Creationists should pretend that what they believe is science. Just call it what it is, faith. That’s what I do.

The reason I brought it up was because while the “equivalent moral footing” might seem like a footnote to a scientist it is the most striking and important factor to the rest of us and the casual comparison between Creationists and Truthers is offensive and objectionable.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 12:36 AM

I’m sorry for your loss.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 12:21 AM

Thank you aengus.

I dispute the 10%, but if true, you are allowed to deviate by that much :) You’re still a fine debater and person, and I’m very thankful that you are here.

Entelechy on June 18, 2008 at 12:42 AM

I find it amazing just how much better the scientific education has gotten since the 70′s when we stopped that silly religious talk in our schools. I mean, we are graduating almost every student in the inner city and our math and science scores are through the roof compared to the rest of the world. Oh, wait a minute…..

I’m not trying to compare the loss of religion in classrooms to the disgraceful performance of schools, I’m just saying a little back and forth and questioning never hurt anyone. The reason our students get there butts kicked is because other country’s students inquire about things, and there are things that make them WANT to pursue math and science. We just tell our students to sit there and take it.

There are many scholars that question evolution (see the Discovery Institute petition, over 700 names). I mean I know they come from backwood hick universities like Emory, Princeton, Yale and the National Academy of Sciences, but its not universal like others would have us believe.

edbarnes on June 18, 2008 at 12:43 AM

How do you know that Tim Russert is boiling in hell?

I’m not going to freak out and accuse you of smearing me…I’m far more patient than you would imagine….please tell me when I said Russert’s boiling in Hell?

You won’t find it. Save yourself some time. It’s just another example of you not understanding what I’m saying.

SaintOlaf on June 18, 2008 at 12:57 AM

It’s just another example of you not understanding what I’m saying.

SaintOlaf on June 18, 2008 at 12:57 AM

It’s not what you say that people don’t understand that is so troubling, it’s what you say that people do understand that is so troubling.

Sigy on June 18, 2008 at 1:01 AM

Entelechy on June 18, 2008 at 12:42 AM

Thats very nice of you to say so. You are a good person to debate.

I don’t know what the female equivalent of buddy is but I’m sure its sexist somehow.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 1:02 AM

I’m not going to freak out and accuse you of smearing me…I’m far more patient than you would imagine….please tell me when I said Russert’s boiling in Hell?

In fairness I don’t know that you said that. Someone told me that you said that without directly quoting you so its quite possible that they were exaggerating. I didn’t mean to smear you. I take it back if thats the case.

I have to go to bed soon but I wouldn’t be surprised if the new Jindal thread is still going strong when I get home from work tommorrow. We can talk again if you like. I agree with you on most things but you alienate everyone on HA (Christians and atheists) because your tone is wrathful.

aengus on June 18, 2008 at 1:12 AM

aengus, LimeyGeek called me a lass today, then apologized. I don’t know why. I’ve been called worse on HA and taken it with grace.

I’m not a feminist, just a strong lady, who likes to fight hard, but fair.

I still can’t believe how late you’re up in Ireland. You’re 8 hours ahead of me, in California. It’s 22:17 here and I beg you a good day already. Must go to sleep as work calls tomorrow morning, early. Until the next round,

Entelechy on June 18, 2008 at 1:17 AM

aengus, the SaintOlaf comment of 4:40 in this thread was deleted. You can find that it did exist by several commenters referring to it. Of course, if the original is no longer available, you will not see it with your own eyes. I bet God saw it and knows of it.

Entelechy on June 18, 2008 at 1:26 AM

I hope that you repented and accepted Jesus Christ before your untimely death, Tim.

Eternity is forever…and all those who do not accept Jesus Christ will spend it in Hell.

SaintOlaf on June 13, 2008 at 4:40 PM

Yes indeed, one of my Watson’s has uncovered the scoundrels misdeed. It is rather amazing how what one thinks that the Loard Jesus is like so reflects what they themselves are like. But then I guess that is elementary.

Holmes on June 18, 2008 at 3:25 AM

Called it.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on June 18, 2008 at 9:52 AM

Called it.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on June 18, 2008 at 9:52 AM

And on the second post, at that! My compliments to you, sir.

backwoods conservative on June 18, 2008 at 10:08 AM

Huurrraayyyy!!! Happpy 1000 comments! :)

How many were really Happpy? More like 1000 divisive comments.

kirkill on June 18, 2008 at 10:32 AM

There are lots of transitional forms. In a sense, all life is transitional.

a statement of faith. you have nothing to back it up.

Geologically a PE radiation can take tens, hundreds of thousands of years.

another statement of faith. you should tell the author of this study that he’s wrong…

Evolution Occurs in the Blink of an Eye
A population of butterflies has evolved in a flash on a South Pacific island to fend off a deadly parasite.

link

so according to you it takes a long time, but it can happen quickly according to this article…evolution is all in all to the faithful.

What is it with these religionists who are so insecure in their faith that they are threatened by the facts of biological evolution?

whats with you atheists that are SO THREATENED by any challenge to your beloved hairygod Darwin?? hmmmm??

The Church thought the Earth was the center of universe

prove its not.

Is this mindset at all superior to that of the Islamists

you rabid darwiniacs are just like them…cannot stand to hear any competing information, and try to silence al who disagree.

you have no science to back you up…all you can do is spout darwiniac talking points…you don’t even know how foolish you are.

right4life on June 18, 2008 at 10:38 AM

whats amusing is that you darwniacs cannot answer any of the challenges posed to your query. I have asked the following question many times in this thread, and none of you have the guts or knowledge to answer it:

1) why is the tuatara unchanged after 200M years, since it has the fastest DNA ‘evolution’ of any animal?

and that is just one of many. you darwiniacs think you’re ‘educated’ because you throw some talking points around, but you are clueless when it comes to debating the science.

and whats even funnier is you think you’re SO smart…you’re just a legend in your own mind.

right4life on June 18, 2008 at 10:43 AM

hats amusing is that you darwniacs cannot answer any of the challenges posed to your query. I have asked the following question many times in this thread, and none of you have the guts or knowledge to answer it:

1) why is the tuatara unchanged after 200M years, since it has the fastest DNA ‘evolution’ of any animal?

right4life on June 18, 2008 at 10:43 AM

From Wikipedia,

. . . Although tuatara are sometimes called “living fossils”, recent taxonomic and molecular work has shown that they have changed significantly since the Mesozoic era. . .

Changes in the genome do not necessarily result in morphological changes unless there is selective pressure favoring them. That the tuatara have accumulated a lot of mitochondrial changes over time is interesting, but not terribly dispositive of any issue in evolutionary theory. Obviously the relation between morphological and DNA changes is important, but the recent discovery of ‘rapid’ DNA change in tuatara is just one brick in the edifice of ongoing research.

Remember, too, that changes in animal physiology are not at all apparent to the paleontologist. The tuatara is peculiarly (among lizard-like critters) adopted to cold climates (and nocturnal life), suggesting a good deal of internal evolution has taken place over the eons, even while its skeletal and outward form remained much the same. The thing survived ice ages!

MrLynn on June 18, 2008 at 4:09 PM

. . . you have no science to back you up…all you can do is spout darwiniac talking points…you don’t even know how foolish you are.

right4life on June 18, 2008 at 10:38 AM

And you, apparently, are capable of no more than ad hominem insults.

MrLynn on June 18, 2008 at 4:11 PM

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