Wisconsin DNC delegate announces for McCain
posted at 10:16 am on June 15, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Debra Bartoshevich has rattled the Wisconsin Democratic Party with her decision to support another candidate besides the nominee, Barack Obama. The Hillary Clinton supporter won’t vote for Obama but for John McCain after Hillary’s withdrawal — and she insists that she’s not going to change her mind before the general election:
As an avid supporter of Hillary Rodham Clinton in the Democratic primaries, Debra Bartoshevich is not alone in her frustration over Clinton’s defeat.
She’s not alone in refusing to support Barack Obama.
And she’s not entirely alone in saying she’ll vote this fall for Republican John McCain instead.
But what makes her unusual is that she holds these views as an elected delegate to the Democratic National Convention in Denver this summer.
People don’t become delegates by accident. Delegates get selected from a pool of people dedicated to party activism, which is what makes Bartoshevich so unusual. When someone who has put that much energy into the party decides to support the other party’s candidate, that says something about the dissatisfaction — at least as experienced by Bartoshevich.
The question will be whether more Democratic delegates chosen for Hillary Clinton follow her example. I tend to think that a number of factors will keep more from doing so, especially social factors. Bartoshevich will likely become a pariah within her district for quite some time, and her participation in politics will get met with a lot less enthusiasm than before.
Wisconsin may be embarrassed, but the most likely outlet for other disenchanted delegates will be to stay quiet — and shift their votes privately.
Update: I forgot the link earlier.
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Oh snap.
MDSers using this as proof that McCain is really a liberal in
5…4…3…2..
Squid Shark on June 15, 2008 at 10:27 AM
I have wondered what my Congressman Brad Ellsworth would do. He had said he would support whoever his constituents supported, and that was not Barack Obama. I am sure other Indiana super delegates will go ahead and support Obama, but I am not so sure about Ellsworth. Didn’t Boren from Oklahoma say something like this as well?
Terrye on June 15, 2008 at 10:30 AM
They ‘re kick her out of the convention . – Where ’s the PopCorn?
Anita on June 15, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Even some Dems know how awfully a BO presidency will stink.
jgapinoy on June 15, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Squid:
The MDSers need to spend more time trying to come up with GOP candidates who can actually win and less time trying to sabotage the ones who do win.
Terrye on June 15, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Seeeee. This PROVES that McCain is really a democrat!
.
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.
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I, for one, am not going to let a countdown go unfulfilled in a HA thread.
Weight of Glory on June 15, 2008 at 10:35 AM
A sane opposition is good for the country. Yea!
IreneFingIrene on June 15, 2008 at 10:37 AM
“MDSers?”
irishspy on June 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM
That would be nice.
wise_man on June 15, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Like lots more fun statements and missteps by barry on the way to the convention and hillary fighting for the nomination down to the final vote. hillary isn’t mourning, she is regrouping and the fun ain’t over.
peacenprosperity on June 15, 2008 at 10:42 AM
Ed,
No link?
terryannonline on June 15, 2008 at 10:44 AM
DEN-VER! DEN-VER! DEN-VER!
SouthernGent on June 15, 2008 at 10:46 AM
terryannonline:
Wisconsin Democrat now publicly supports McCain
There’s also this:
Found in a yahoo news search. But when I try to click on their link, I get a “Template Error: loadfile: body is not a valid handle. Halted.” error message, So I can’t read the whole story.
wise_man on June 15, 2008 at 10:48 AM
The link is to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.
__________
Also, pre-emptively antagonizing folks who are not keen on Maverick is a sure way to bring them around.
Karl on June 15, 2008 at 10:48 AM
The story loaded for me okay.
Karl on June 15, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Here you go!
Ouch!… Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani Slams Obama . -
Anita on June 15, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Gee,
I can’t imagine why, she’d be dissatified.
p’haps, it’s the ears.
franksalterego on June 15, 2008 at 10:50 AM
No problem, Karl. Now if only the folks who are not keen on Maverick don’t already act as if they have full blown McCain derangement Syndrome, and act just like the democrats who first started behaving like raving lunatics against president Bush … then this antagonizing wouldn’t be necessary.
The only thing that can bring these people around is a swift kick in the face.
wise_man on June 15, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Here in Tennessee the Donks are nervous as all get out. They have pretty much kept there mouths shut and there seems to be some internal clashes about how to approach this disaster.
The current Donk governor, who can’t run again, was elected because he appealed to many conservatives. A conservative Donk congressman (super delegate) wants to run for governor but he knows that publically endoring the Obamarxist would be a political kiss of death in this state. But the Obamarxist are flailing on him to “get into line” and speak out before the gathering of the politburo Denver.
It is going to be a very exciting summer.
JonRoss on June 15, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Karl,
We have given up trying to bring over MDSers, you can not reason with petulant children. I am spending my time trying to reason with the one I think there is still hope for: Legend, right, etc.
Squid Shark on June 15, 2008 at 10:58 AM
The
DemocratCommunist Party can’t stand dissent.I suppose they’ll stuff a rag down her throat as they drag her away.
T J Green on June 15, 2008 at 10:59 AM
Better watch it, Debra,
Barry’s got a gun.
franksalterego on June 15, 2008 at 11:01 AM
She’d better watch her back. Whole lotta crazy in the Demofascist party.
ReubenJCogburn on June 15, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Just Breaking…
A Tennessee Congressman is also refusing to endorse Obama. It’s all over the TN media. His name is Lincoln Davis. One of his top political associates – a Dem State ExComm member – is saying that it’s because of Obama’s alleged links to Terrorists. (Presumably Weather Underground member Bill Ayers and/or Kenyan Murdererous Islamo-Fascist Dictator Raila Odinga.)
A story this morning at the Chattanoogan.com says that 11 out of 17 TN Dem ExComm members are refusing to endorse Obama.
So, let’s see now, Obama Dem non-supporters:
Cong. Don Boren (OK)
Cong. Lincoln Davis (TN)
Wisconsin DNC Delegate Debra Bartosevich
Tennessee Democrat Executive Committee majority
This is now beyond the “oddity” phase. It’s now a bonafide trend. Somebody ought to launch a website devoted to “Democrats United Against Obama”.
Eric Dondero, Publisher
Libertarian Republican blog
ericdondero on June 15, 2008 at 11:08 AM
Rove, you magnificent bastard.
Seixon on June 15, 2008 at 11:18 AM
One of those social factors being abortion is very much overrated and is not the burning issue among the majority of Democratic women, it’s more of an issue for Republicans than Democrats. That issue will not override the betrayal they feel from the DNC. And that issue is not an issue for the Democratic Hispanic women who have traditionally voted for the Democratic Party in spite of their pro-choice agenda.
I have 3 girlfriends who are blind-faith Democrats and they are PISSED! They haven’t gone thru the range of emotions yet, but I suspect they will sit it out or vote for McCain if their anger doesn’t turn to complacency by November.
Texas Gal on June 15, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Not trying to give a shameless plug here, apologies to Ed, but we did feature the Tennessee Congressman refusing the endorse Obama story this morning at Libertarian Republican blog.
It’s a real doozie. In addition to the Congressman, an 11 member majority of the Dem ExComm in TN is also refusing to back Obama. And one of the Top Dems in the State, an associate of Cong. Davis, is saying the reason is Obama’s potential links to Terrorism.
I predict 3 or 4 more Top Dems coming out against Obama this week. The MSM will have a hard time explaining this one.
ericdondero on June 15, 2008 at 11:33 AM
Texas Gal, tell your girlfriends, they don’t have to “sit it out” in the Fall. Libertarian Bob Barr will be on the ballot in at least 48 states. He’s polling in the 6 to 8% range in some states currently.
If they can’t stomach voting for McCain and the Republicans, there’s always the Nation’s Third Largest Political Party: The Libertarians!
ericdondero on June 15, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Obama must have called her something more than a “typical white woman“.
Let’s see the cellphone video of that.
profitsbeard on June 15, 2008 at 11:45 AM
The son of the disgraced Senator Sasser of TN is now Donk party chairman in the state. It is my understanding that he is pushing hard for the endorsements of the Obamarxist. Such leftist shenanigans is what cost the old man his senatorial seat and reputation. The home state of Al Gore that in 2000 told him to go frock himself (it was TN not FL which cost him the POTUS) will not support a politician who endorses someone as dangerous as the Obamarxist.
JonRoss on June 15, 2008 at 11:50 AM
I respectfully disagree.
The people who are reticient to vote for McC have very valid and demonstrable reasons for not doing so, and their decisions and principles should be respected.
I’m not a big McC fan by any stretch of the imagination. I’m currently leaning toward voting his way in the general, but I’m doing it as a direct opposition to the triple threat of a possible obambi, pelousi, reid trifecta. I am not enthusiastically supporting McC, as he is more Centrist Democrat than Republican Conservative.
I’m voting against the marxist takeover of our Republic. We can fight McC, and toss him out in 4 years. It’s going to be much harder to recover from the damage that an all radical leftist dem government can and will inflict.
I’m counting on my fellow Americans, on both sides of the aisle to step up and stop this leftist coup in its tracks. But their decisions and their votes are their own, and the will of the People, no matter what it is, will prevail in November.
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 12:00 PM
Is there anyone, who cares to try to explain this logic?
franksalterego on June 15, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Maybe I wasn’t clear, they’re anger is with the DNC and the way Hillary was thrown under the bus as far as they are concerned. I’m sure that McCain has nothing to do with their indigestion.
Texas Gal on June 15, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Just perfect eric……..by all means let’s promote another Ross Perot (that got Clinton elected)……makes real sense that Libertarians would be responsible for the appointment of maybe three LIBERAL SUPREMES while screaming to the top of their lungs—–”WE’RE NUMBA THREE”.
Rovin on June 15, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Hey Rovin, tell me please what in the world John McCain offers us Libertarians? What has he done to earn Libertarian support?
Yes, I grant you, if he picks Sarah Palin as his VP, that would change the situation; would be a real sign that he takes the Libertarian vote seriously. But since he won the nomination, has he done anything to earn the support of Libertarian voters?
1. Has he attended any Libertarian events? Conventions?
2. Has he appointed any Libertarians to his Campaign staff or advisory committees? (Besides libertarian-leaning conservative Steve Forbes).
3. Has he even made a few phone calls to Libertarian leaders around the Nation? Or one of his infamous Blog Conference Calls for Libertarian Bloggers?
I made an inquiry early on a few months ago, as to McCain possibly speaking to the Libertarian National Convention. Initial response from his Staff was positive. Then afterwards, my repeated email follow-ups to his team went unanswered.
Bob Barr has earned Libertarian support and respect. John McCain, (though as a fellow Veteran I’m deeply respectful of his Military service), hasn’t done SQUAT! to earn Libertarian support.
And I as a loyal Republican, am doing everything I can to support Bob Barr, Libertarian for President in ‘08.
Do I hope McCain beats the crap out of National Socialist Obama. You bet your sweet ass I do. But at this point, I’m also hoping that Barr beats McCain.
Eric Dondero, Publisher
Libertarian Republican blog
Founder, Republican Liberty Caucus
Fmr. Senior Aide, US Congressman Ron Paul 1997-2003
ericdondero on June 15, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Just a quick observation on those using the term MDS…every American has a right to feel however they choose about any political candidate. You do yourself a diservice when you get insulting because you disagree with their opinion or their reasons why they feel the way they feel. I have been noticing a strong D-KOS attitude running through some comments here lately..especially when it concerns McCain.
Lets drop the MDS bull and keep the discourse reasoned otherwise HA will soon join the ash heap of Huffington/D-KOS in my book
JKotthoff on June 15, 2008 at 12:24 PM
With all due respect Mr. Dondero, while your motives may be admirable, (and even possibly justified to a point), I cannot support what the obvious outcome would be if the Libertarian Party became another Green Party Ralph Nadar that would have given us Al Gore for possibly eight years.
Show me the strength of the Libertarian Party at the beginning of the nomination process and you might have a better argument for supporting your candidate. What you are proposing at this point of the process is pure folly.
Rovin on June 15, 2008 at 12:38 PM
1. McCain offers some of what I want, and some of what I don’t want.
2. Obama offers all of what I don’t want.
3. Barr offers all of what I want, but polls 8%, and doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance.
So, the only logical and reasoned conclusion is, to vote for #3, so’s I can get #2…Obstensibly, to “send a message”…A message, #2 has no interest in listening to.
I see…I think
franksalterego on June 15, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Ok, could some of the moderators take care of this guy who is shamelessly promoting his own blog and is just here to troll for hits.
Squid Shark on June 15, 2008 at 1:12 PM
REALITY CHECK
The last time I checked the “reality charts” the objective is to defeat the Democratic Party’s nominee–Barack-welcome to marxism-Obama. This race, (which historically belongs to the Dem Party) will be decided by the thinest of margins that will require the strong and united support from every spectrum of conservatives, moderates, Reagan Democrats, and yes Libertarians to defeat Obama. Even the slightest amount of disgruntled defections from the ultimate goal stated above could very will tilt towards putting a professed left-wing liberal, (along with probably a stronger Democratic House and Senate), into the WH for eight years. This WILL cause the setback of Conservatism and Libertarianism that could cause damage for decades to rectify. Now is not the time to stand/sit on principals and stubborn egos that want to teach Conservatives a lesson. Plug your friggin’ nose’s if you have to and vote for the only person that can defeat Obama in November—–John McCain.
If some one here can tell me this argument is wrong, please by all means say so. And be prepared to explain how some one else is going to defeat Obama. If you can’t, your “pail of water” has far too many wholes in it.
BRB soon……
Rovin on June 15, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Specifically, how are you going to fight McCain?
Have you started already? If not, why not?
nottakingsides on June 15, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Rovin, your argument is wrong. Why should Libertarians vote for McCain? He’s done absolutely nothing for us. He offers us very little. Hell, he’s even pisspoor on drilling in Alaska, and Global Warming.
Nope, for now Bob Barr is the best choice for Libertarians, and even libertarian Republicans like me.
Sorry.
ericdondero on June 15, 2008 at 1:38 PM
And incidentally, in case any of you here think I’m being disloyal, you should know that I’m catching a great deal of hell right now from partisan Libertarian Party members right now, for urging them to support downticket Republican candidates like Tom McClintock for Congress in California, Sean Parnell in Alaska, and Allen West in Florida.
A vote for Bob Barr, Libertarian for President, can also mean a vote for the Republican candidate for Senate and House.
ericdondero on June 15, 2008 at 1:42 PM
It sure is good to see that there are Democrats out there willing to go against their party on principal, especially in light of the apparent traitorous “conservatives” like JC Watts, and others who are reported to be putting their support behind Obama for the simple reason he shares their skin tone. Someone please tell me that is all just rumor.
pannw on June 15, 2008 at 1:44 PM
Skulking around in the cloak of libertarianism is as transparent as wet tissue-paper.
You’re not promoting Barr…You’re promoting the defeat of McCain.
franksalterego on June 15, 2008 at 1:45 PM
Chaos, baby!
CP on June 15, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Followed by a good dose of helter skelter.
JonRoss on June 15, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Why is everyone so surprised. McCain is a Democrat in policy and practice. If I’m going to vote for a Democrat, I figure I’ll just vote for the one who admits it, instead of the one who denies it.
Snake307 on June 15, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Again, Franksalterego, please give me a reason to vote for McCain?
Why should a Libertarian or even a libertarian Republican be excited about McCain for President?
Is McCain calling for the repeal of seat belt laws nationwide? Is he coming out in favor of marijuana legalization? Is he in favor of getting rid of Affirmative Action? Is he wanting to abolish the IRS? At least in favor of drilling in Alaska?
Many Libertarians and especially us more mainstream libertarian Republicans are willing to compromise. But with McCain for us it’s not a compromise, but an almost complete abandonment of all the issues that we hold dear.
ericdondero on June 15, 2008 at 2:07 PM
Under the bus she goes.
The Obama Express thumps onward, bouncing over another casualty.
profitsbeard on June 15, 2008 at 2:09 PM
I have already, and will continue to do so.
You never heard of NumbersUSA? Phone calls? Faxes? Emails? Letters? You know, that action thing?
Specific enough?
So what’s your plan? Or does your nick indicate your position?
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 2:10 PM
A real, bona fide Libertarian would be scared to death of Obama.
McCain?…Not so much.
So, if you think, you can run your two-bit hustle on a real Republican, think again.
franksalterego on June 15, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Yeah… squidshark.blogspot.com.. these moderators need to clean up these folks, ‘trolling for hits’..
Back to the topic on hand..
if Maverick wins, this will only embolden him and the other RINOs that this is the direction the party needs to go.. (Ahh-nuld and his ilk) at least for the next 4 years..
it’s a unique situations.. with the DNC at hotly divided as it is with them acting as kids when their candidate doesn’t get the nomination.. potentially splitting their own ticket.. Maverick is in just the right spot to take advantage of that.. and the GOP will move to take their half in the middle of the proverbial road..
DaveC on June 15, 2008 at 2:20 PM
I have already, and will continue to do so.
You never heard of NumbersUSA? Phone calls? Faxes? Emails? Letters? You know, that action thing?
Specific enough?
So what’s your plan? Or does your nick indicate your position?
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 2:10 PM
How’s that working for you?
You are the one who just said:
Since you’ve began your fight with McCain, what changes has McCain made?
What specific issues have you been fighting McCain on?
What specifically have the results been so far?
How would “fighting” him during his 4-year term be any different than today and decades before?
Did this “phone call/letter/fax” fighting that you mentioned work with Bush also? If so, how?
Man up, and back up what you say. Stop with the empty Obama-style rhetoric.
You bring the “fight” to conservatives that question/critique/don’t support/etc.. McCain’s philosophy, politics, actions, etc… ,
…..and at the same time you say “don’t fight McCain now, wait till he’s elected”.
…..at the same time you JUST said “I’m fighting McCain now”, BUT you demonize anyone who even criticizes the man on HA.
nottakingsides on June 15, 2008 at 2:52 PM
It’s a hell of a lot better than sitting around whining and doing nothing at all.
WTF? You got me mixed up with somebody else on the demonizing thing. Produce the proof for that last little stab. I haven’t been the one demonizing anyone. Prove it.
And ‘man up’? Obama-style rhetoric? Blow me. Check this out. What part of what I said was ombama-esqe?
As for fighting McC, specifically, we stopped amnesty going through lasy year and stopped the dem’s backdoor attempt at passing amnesty as a part of the last troop funding bill, among other things. We’ve been less successful fighting pork, but fighting doesn’t always mean winning. But I do what I can when I can.
I ask again, what have you done, besides fling crap and invectives, that is.
Further, what do you think should be done? Let it all crash and burn so some mythical zombie Reagan can rise from the ashes and make it all better?
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Again, answer the questions, or shut up already with demonizing conservatives for criticizing McCain NOW.
Just in case you forgot:
nottakingsides on June 15, 2008 at 4:16 PM
And in “NOW” I mean criticizing/fighting McCain DURING the campaign instead of waiting till his 4-yr term.
nottakingsides on June 15, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Hey moron, show me where I’ve demonized ANYBODY criticizing McC ‘NOW’. I voted for Fred in the Texas Primaries as a protest against McC. I fought him when and how I could.
I’m not happy that he’s the nominee and that Comrade Obambi is the only other choice.
I’ve answered your idiot questions. You haven’t answered any of mine. I think the wisest thing to do is let you continue to play with yourself. You clearly have no interest in honest debate.
How the hell did you get any of that nonsense you’re spouting from what I wrote here?
Again, and quite emphatically; Blow. Me.
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Fact #1: My mother would stand a better chance at becoming the next POTUS than Bob Barr would.
Fact #2: If Bob Barr and Ron Paul (combined) ended up taking 6% to 12% of the popular vote in a few crutial states—-that will make Obama the next President.
Fact #3: Knowing that your candidate DOES NOT have the numbers means that your would prefer to have OBAMA in the WH.
Fact #4: When facts 1,2, and 3 are correct, and you still think a vote for Bob Barr is the way to go, then you’re solipsism and ad hominem argument requires a quote from Dr. Sanity;
“The dilemma of the postmodern narcissist is thus an unqualified belief in his or her own righteousness and moral obligation to judge the past; that is simultaneously combined with an aggressive ignorance about it.”
Rovin on June 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Can I extract a promise not to use: RINO, Mediocrats, traitors, and fools? McSame, McLame, Juan McCain, John Muhammed McCain, and McShame? OK, until then…
Squid Shark on June 15, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Yeap.
Historically speaking when a Marxist gets his hands on the levers of power it is hell getting them off. Eastern Europe is still trying to recover from the Marxist takeover of Russia in 1917. Cuba. China. Vietnam, etc. All nightmares to this day. Some call Obama a “soft” Marxist. The NYT promoted Castro in that way and you see what happened. Allende in Chile was promoted by the NYT that way also. It took a military coup to remove Allende. We need to use the ballot box to prevent such a disaster from occuring here.
JonRoss on June 15, 2008 at 5:04 PM
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
I will call you out on YOUR “wait and be silent UNTIL McCain is POTUS” foolishness everytime you mention it.
Talk radio and blogs EXPOSED McCain and his cronies dispicable schemes, which IN TURN helped educated citizens, which IN TURN caused citizens to use whatever means they had (threats of future VOTES, lack of money, and the other “fighting’ methods you mentioned earlier) to shut McCain and his liberal political hordes down.
YOU want to shut down the actual means (talk radio and blogs) that pushed the people which in turn shut down the shamnesty BS.
Bush (basically) just let it happen and your letter writing has no effect on the POTUS. If so, tell me where Bush has listened.
McCain as POTUS would actually be promoting shamnesty and defending open borders. And you actually think that keeping silent NOW will BETTER stop Shamnesty when McCain starts it up again?
HA is a conservative website where politics can be discussed. Liberal/socialist/Marxist/anti-capitalist/anti-US/environmental extremist/etc.. ideologies can be criticized regardless if it comes from McCain or any other Republican.
YOU want it criticism of McCain to stop and only want cheerleading until he is POTUS. YOU said we should only fight McCain once POTUS. I asked you exactly how, and you have resorted to the same foolish rants against McCain critics.
You want ME to back up why NOW criticizing liberal, anti-capitalists and economy-crusing ideologies is more helpful than waiting.
nottakingsides on June 15, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Barking up the wrong tree; I’m beyond reasoning with on McCain… You got a better chance of converting MB4 or flenser. Remember; I’m the one with the 33 year history with McCain. With me it is personal as well as political.
Only McCain himself could get me to vote for him; by changing his mind on three things… and those three things are the three things that he holds most dear. So that ain’t a gonna happen…
Heck, at this point if he would come out and say that he was completely wrong and that he is withdrawing as the chief GOP Acolyte to Pope Gore at the Church of Global Warming; I might be willing to consider it, and just try to forget all about McCain-Feingold and Shamnesty and every other stupid decision he has made and every other betrayal, personal and political.
The only way that such a declaration would be believable to me, knowing the guy as I do, would to be if he takes a couple of days off the campaign trail and whips up some actual legislation to open up ANWR and the coastal areas to drilling and to build some refineries and get out of the way of oil shale development, drop cap and trade.
Until that happens, your time and effort would be more profitably spent trying to keep the moon from orbiting around the earth.
LegendHasIt on June 15, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Ok. YOU are clearly nuts. What I want is for you to get back on your meds as quickly as possible and stop making a public spectacle of yourself.
Where have I ever even suggested for anyone to “wait and be silent UNTIL McCain is POTUS”? You used quotes. I assume you realize what they indicate. I’ve never said any such thing. And I certainly do not advocate silence about McC’s many shortcomings. You have no credibility here.
And the rant about me wanting to shut down talk radio and blogs? Again, WTF? Where did you get any of that coming from me? Answer: You didn’t. You’re making crap up out of thin air, because, for some reason you’ve got a bone up your a$$ because I said I’d rather fight McC than bend over and accept a devastating dem trifecta.
Here… since you’re simple, I’ll try this one last time:
And after all that, you’re getting pissy because I think we have a better chance of fighting McC’s idiocy rather than the triple charged threat of the dems?
That’s just nuts. Either come with some constructive solutions and suggestions or STFU.
I’m done with you. You repeatedly accuse me of things I have not done and beliefs I do not have and have put word in my mouth that I did not say.
Seek help. Seriously.
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 5:32 PM
I asked you how and you said:
Again, calling McCain critics (on HA, on blogs and talk radio) as “whiners” as opposed to your proposal of quiet fighting with emails/letters/etc.. (AS IF THEY ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE).
Again, Stronger public venues (conservative blogs and talk radio)exposed McCain and roused citizens to action as opposed to your plan of cheerleading on public venues until November when he has the POWER.
Again, YOU feel that ANY political discussion involving ANY critique of McCain’s liberal ideologies is to ” Let it all crash and burn so some mythical zombie Reagan can rise from the ashes”
“Stopping the leftist coup” would be exposing MCCAIN and RINO liberal creep, calling him out each and every time he moves further left, and not giving McCain our support or vote UNTIL he EARNS it.
One McCain is POTUS, your “quiet fight” will not be heard by him no more than Bush.
nottakingsides on June 15, 2008 at 6:43 PM
Is it just me, or is the handle “nottakingsides” extremely ironic?
Al in St. Lou on June 15, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Good Lord! You really are derranged. You think I’m against HA, talk radio, and blogs because I took it upon myself to take what I learned from all three of the sources you mention and take the action of actually calling, emailing, faxing, etc?
What’s all this about some now scare quoted “quiet fight”? Are you derranged? I’m making as much noise as a single human can.
Wow. Just Wow.
You’ve got this mistaken idea I want to deny you of your write to vote as you please. Not so! Vote for Batman if you want. Seriously. Actions have consequences is my only point. But you’re evidently much too dense to get that.
And WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR GRAND PLAN, genius? Attacking me isn’t solving our problem, is it? How do you suggest we solve our mutual problem?
I respect your right to dissent. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with you, nor by disagreeing with you do I desire to demonize you. That’s projection right there. On your part.
Anybody ever tell you you have a hair trigger? Or suggest that you seek help?
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Heh. The mask slipped completely off a while back there.
Am I the only one completely perplexed at this exchange?
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 7:26 PM
Went back to make sure I hadn’t misunderstood your lunacy. But no, you’re still nuts.
You seriously think McC is going to actually try to curry your favor? That’s hilarious. You don’t get it do you? He doesn’t need me and you. He’s going after the Centrist Democrats, and he’s going to get a big bunch of them, since Comrade Obambi can’t stop shooting himself and his handlers in the foot. He’ll most likely get more Dems than he loses TCs.
And do you seriously think you’ll have any voice or influence over Comrade Obambi and his hordes, should they gain complete control over all three branches of the government and a majority on the SCOTUS?
Seriously?
I find it both telling and disturbing that you fear a McC presidency more than the Obambi marxist regime you would see us suffer.
Pardon me if I refuse to do that and use the one measley vote I do have to vote against something I know for a fact will destroy most of what I’ve built up over my lifetime. Pardon me if I don’t want to commit economic and political suicide with you. I’m not telling you not to vote your conscious or compromise your principles. I’m just trying to remind you that such decisions have real world impact, and at this point in history, very serious ones.
Again, what exactly is your plan?
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 7:45 PM
McCain may be a nuisance but he’s not a danger to America. Obambi is a huge danger. We don’t want the likes of him anywhere near the white house.
Mojave Mark on June 15, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Heh. There are several user names around here that are highly inappropriate, if not completely antithetical to their claims.
Mine was chosen… years and years ago at Lucianne.com… because I thought it would make a neat sort of pun when I was trying to communicate something based on innuendo only. Turned out to be less useful than imagined, as I have only used it that way once, maybe twice in all these years.
Lately I’ve been wishing I could change mine… To something like ‘MDS Sufferer’, ‘The Irritator’, or something.
LegendHasIt on June 15, 2008 at 7:55 PM
I just got here and I’m perplexed.
What’s with you people on this blog (Hot Air)? Someone says something and the next thing you know someone is going off on him. Grow some thick skin, not a thick skull.
Maybe, just maybe, someone didn’t write something the way they wanted it to come out. Maybe, someone is just being provocative just to start something.
Granted, there have been people who have said some real stupid stuff and I have gotten into these wars myself, but I try not to take offense at every little thing that I disagree with.
And yes, I’m not perfect.
cjs1943 on June 15, 2008 at 8:30 PM
Legend, I would call it “LastSaneMDSer”.
Squid Shark on June 15, 2008 at 8:43 PM
Gee…sounds like something from a CNN opinion fest. You may be happier posting over on kos or an Obama site. Kum-ba-ya is not spoken here.
JonRoss on June 15, 2008 at 8:46 PM
Quit trying to butter me up. I ain’t changing my mind on ‘youknowwho’
Besides… few people , myself included, have ever considered me sane. Borderline functional, at best. Just enough to avoid the rubber room.
So- calling me sane just hurts your own reputation.
;-)
LegendHasIt on June 15, 2008 at 8:53 PM
Yeah, because it’s so unlike kos to immediately jump to vitriol and invective right off the bat, rather than intelligently state your case and back it up with reason.
HA could use a lot more of the latter and much less of the former. It greatly improve the signal to noise ratio.
Kum-ba-ya has nothing to do with it. It’s a respect thing. I’m hoping you understand that.
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 8:55 PM
And you point that out everytime McCain is called out. “Hey! What do ya want, a Marxist for President? Vote McCain!”. Wow! That’s genius!
You are the one that vehemently advocates supporting/cheerleading during the campaign, not calling him out and criticizing him NOW, voting for McCain, and THEN “fighting” him. I asked you HOW and your answer sucked. You originally said “We can fight McCain (meaning DURING his term), and vote him out in 4 years”.
How do you fight McCain any differently than the failure with Bush? How does voting him out 4 years later and then at that time people like you say “Hey, the next guy sucks, but hey, it’s better than McCain or that other Marxist”. Nothing will ever change with your approach and that cycle will continue on leftward.
Mainly what I have is my vote and what I continue to do on a local/community level, my money, and I enjoy reading and discussing politics periodically. McCain doesn’t want the conservative vote or money, and I will not be an activist for him, nor the mostly failed left-leaning GOP. It is up to McCain and Republicans activate the base if they want it.
nottakingsides on June 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM
Say what you will, but a few others here could take some lessons from you in effectively presenting their cases.
I don’t think you should change your excellent nick, but if you did, I’d suggest “That’s Irritainment”. Though I’ve seldom found you irritating. ;o)
Made me think about something a few times I might not have otherwise , though. So thanks for that.
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 9:10 PM
You exagerate the frequency. And am I not allowed the right to state my opinion?
You are the one that vehemently advocates supporting/cheerleading during the campaign, not calling him out and criticizing him NOWvoting for McCain, and THEN “fighting” him,.
That is not at all what I’m advocating. Once again, yell your friggin’ head off about how bad McC is.
I. Don’t. Care. I’m not trying to stifle your dissent. How many times do I have to say that? You’re making this crap up. It may be what you hear in your tiny little mind, but that does not make it what I actually said or believe.
In your opinion, which you’re entitled to. You disagree with me. That’s cool. You still haven’t proposed anything resembling a plan or workable solution. At least I’m taking the action I can. You’re just going to throw your hands up and quit. That’s fine too. It’s not my fault if you’re having guilty thoughts.
You make my very point here. You don’t trust the GOP to actually fix anything either. And then you once again attribute an action to me that I’m not likely to take at all. You and your imaginary friend need to leave me out of this.
Again, you make my very point. Have the current crop of GOPers exhibited any real moves in your/our direction? No they have not. What makes you believe they’re going to anytime soon? They’re moving steadily away from us, in fact.
Why not? The country is and has been moving leftward. The media continually crushes Conservative ideals, and there’s a lot of easy money to make. Some of them take the path of least resistance.
I, like you, do not trust them, and resent them ignoring us. By all means scream your friggin’ head off at the things that need to change. Hell, I’m with you on the vast majority of the things we share in common.
But you’d rather fight and rail against an imaginary foe you’ve created in your own mind, than discuss real solutions.
The GOP reformation is going to take some time to turn around, don’t you think? It’s not going to happen before this election, is it? This election is going to happen before the GOP can possibly be reformed. So it comes down to what’s the wisest thing for a voter to do. I have my ideas you are entitled to your own.
I think it wiser to have at least a tiny bit of influence rather than absolutely none. That is my only point. Is that so blasphemous to you?
I’m voting in my own best self interests, for my and my family’s survival. If that pisses you off, so what? It’s reality. I’m dealing with it the best way I know how.
Stop reading your own bias and prejudice into my comments and misquoting me. Most of what you’re accusing me of is happening soley between your own ears. Do not project that crap onto me.
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 9:46 PM
techno_barbarian, you get a bit worked up when challenged and I’ve noticed this in your debates with others. You resort to name calling and degrading the challenger and ultimately yourself. In your comments there was about 30% relevant content and the rest seemed to be this kind of classless ranting:
I could also expose the multiple logical fallacies on your side of the debate, but that would be boring, nor would you “get it”. (quotations to add emphasis, BTW)
Quotation marks are used for many things other than direct quotes. I use the blockquote function for your previous content and quotation marks for other purposes such as “added emphasis”, but not to indicate a direct quote. The technique is painfully obvious and used by almost everyone. See? No one actually said the words “added emphasis” until now.
nottakingsides on June 15, 2008 at 10:54 PM
Ok. So now you’re making up your own little rules of punctuation and conventionality to go along with your imaginary friends?
The conventions you claim as obvious are nothing of the sort. Punctuation and html tags have long established meanings, just not the ones you believe. Quotation marks, as you are using above, usually indicate sarcasm, not added emphasis. You’d be better off using the strong tag for that.
Are you new, or what? That would certainly account for your poor performance today.
That aside, it does not change the fact that you attributed motives and actions to me that you made up out of whole cloth.
You explode at me, unprovoked, and I’m the bad guy here? You attacked me, remember?
You have not argued in any honest or logical way during this entire thread. It’s all emotion and lies with you.
I stand by every single comment I made to you. You quite clearly are nuts, and you don’t seem particularly bright at all. That’s me making an observation based on your comments and responses, not calling you names.
And throughout all of this, from my very first response to you, you have still not responded with a workable plan or a solution. Just more senseless attacks on me. You expose yourself for the thoughtless and empty vessel you are.
I tried reasoning with you but you’re not interested. Message recieved. I won’t be responding to you further. Life’s just too short.
techno_barbarian on June 15, 2008 at 11:33 PM
I WIN! Yay for me! Everyone here tries to be witty and quotable. How about this?
Obama Derangement Syndrome:
(Here’s the neat part)
O.D.S.
-say it out loud, and
thank you, Cleveland.
Doug on June 16, 2008 at 12:23 AM
That’s weird.
Even the strayed Black cat that I see on the street everyday told me that she will vote for Hussein.
Yesterday my Black poop told me that it will vote for Hussein.
What’s going on?
Indy Conservative on June 16, 2008 at 1:49 AM
Twenty two years ago Viet Nam realized that it’s Communist economic system was a failure and instituted “Doi Moi,” a systematic effort to convert its economic system to Capitalism. “Doi Moi” also works toward changing the system of government into a democracy.
While I did not set foot in Viet Nam between 19 April 1975 and January 1995, I maintained contact with my in-laws and with members of the Vietnamese community and others who visited Viet Nam during that time frame. From January 1995 (since Nov 1997 as owner of a home) till now I have personally observed the progress that Viet Nam has made toward these goals. My observations support the official CIA, US Congress UN etc. statistics that rate Viet Nam as having one of the fastest growing economies in the world during this time frame.
Note also, US Navy ships also make port calls in Viet Nam and China.
Your description of Viet Nam had become outdated by the late 1990’s
Sam
Three tour VN War Vet and retired military.
Linh_My on June 16, 2008 at 11:59 AM
Somebody call the police–there’s mugging in progress!!!
A reality mugging, that is.
Oh, never mind. Looks like it’s going to be a chronic condition.
////
Sorry to get off the topic of whether it’s better to vote for the compromised Republican candidate or not. Reminds of my college Marxist days–arguing with the Trostkyists about “the Cuban question,” or was it “the Iran question”–”the race question?” I can’t remember. Anyway, they were purists in everything. That’s why there are almost none of them around anymore. They were right on the Iran question, btw–don’t have any truck with the ayatollahs.
smellthecoffee on August 25, 2008 at 10:07 AM
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