Rasmussen: 32% “angry” about illegal immigration, 63% want border secured first
posted at 7:29 pm on June 13, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Keep talking, Maverick. See what happens.
By a 63% to 28% margin, voters continue to believe it is more important to gain control of the border than to resolve the status of those who are already in the country illegally. Democrats are more evenly divided than other voters, but a plurality (49%) agree that controlling the border is the top priority…
Another factor fueling the anger over immigration is the belief that most government officials encourage immigrants to retain the culture of their home country. Overall, 43% of Americans believe this to be true while 32% disagree and believe most officials encourage immigrants to fully embrace American culture. Among those who are angry about immigration, 59% believe most government officials encourage immigrants to retain their home country culture.
Also, please note: 83% are angry at the government versus only 12% at illegals, and Republicans are actually slightly more inclined than Democrats to support a welcoming policy allowing anyone to move to the U.S. except criminals, “national security threats,” and people who can’t support themselves. Just a little factoid to file away for the next time Geraldo warns us of the anti-Latino pogroms or whatever that conservatives are forever supposedly plotting.
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My friendsh, I am absholutely committed to border security first, right after I grant amneshty to all the criminals.
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 7:32 PM
More polling results on immigration here.
I though that this one, from December 2007, was interesting in context of McCain’s immigration positions.
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 7:38 PM
McCain-haters!
Amnesty is not
–huge fine (for dirt-poor worker)
–jumping through bureaucratic hoops
–jumping through geographic hoops
–back taxes
–wait, wait, wait your turn
I didn’t like his program (which he has renounced), but it wasn’t amnesty.
jgapinoy on June 13, 2008 at 7:41 PM
The Rasmussen article was great. The two major points
1,
2.
Point (1) is proven by point (2), the fact that the Senate and beltway were stunned. It showed that they are no longer listening to constituents
Because the constituents are not supporting the program, the Senate has decided that the constituents must be ignored.
It is so obvious.
Had they chosen a simpler issue, like a proposed tarrif on dogsleds, the public might not have acted. However, they chose to install a law that would import 20 million unassimilated voters.
What to do when the public no longer serves the interest of the State?
Replace the public.
entagor on June 13, 2008 at 7:45 PM
The result I posted above was from LA Times/Bloomberg. Here’s one from ABC News taken at the same time:
Even if people are “mad” about illegal immigration, and that government has not doen enough to stop it, inferring that they are againt proposals like the McCain plan from 2007 doesn’t necessrily hold up based on past polling data.
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 7:46 PM
I don’t know, Allah…. I personally dine on Hispanic babies every night while I have forty screaming Mexicans in my torture chamber downstairs.
In the morning, I go outside and set one of the slaves free and then saddle up my horse and grab my shotgun and chase them down and shoot them in the back. Then I make my horse step on them while I get out my Bible and read from Judges and Leviticus or something like that.
I think Geraldo is thinking of me. Perhaps Obama too. I think Mexicans and Hispanics are less than the scum of the earth…
*cough* Okay, that’s enough of that–I can’t stand typing that bilge any more. Maybe McCain will get a clue and decide that this could be a winning issue.
But then, if McCain was good on immigration to start with, Tancredo would never have achieved cult status.
Vanceone on June 13, 2008 at 7:48 PM
Makes sense when our Congress gets reelected more than 90% of the time.
freevillage on June 13, 2008 at 7:48 PM
You mean among the hearty
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 7:49 PM
If you call it a “duck” my opposition to it remains unaltered.
FloatingRock on June 13, 2008 at 7:51 PM
*ack*
It thought the “less than” sign was an open tag. Should’ve been:
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 7:51 PM
They make great tacos!
Blake on June 13, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Do you really believe there will be ANY meaningful penalties? Do you really believe the Dems will stand for “huge fine (for dirt-poor worker)”? Or would they start giving blanket waivers to all those economically disadvantaged souls? Did you notice what McCain-Kennedy tried to do? A background check to be completed in 30 days, or it’s waived? Paying 3 out of the last five years of back taxes? That’s better than lawful citizens get. Bringing your whole family over? It wasn’t 12, or 20 million, it was approaching 100 million. And they wouldn’t be waiting their turn. They don’t want citizenship, they want jobs. It was a sham.
I want to be convinced that McCain wouldn’t legalize them with a pat and a wave. But based on his own statements, and based on the people he’s surrounded himself with, I am no where near being convinced.
He calls people who want the laws enforced names that usually only the Left calls us.
And those questions that get favorable answers are so vague and/or cite things that realistically aren’t going to happen.
Ask this one: Do you support or oppose a program giving illegal immigrants now living in the United States the right to live here legally if they register with the government and pay 3 out of the last five years of taxes that they owe?
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 7:57 PM
Amen and hallelujah! What about the fact that all these illegals come from a socialist tradition? What about the fact that we’d be importing a permanent Democrat majority?
And I’d really like to know how we’re going to pay for all the boomer retirements while giving millions and millions of poor people access to the welfare state.
Sheer insanity.
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 8:00 PM
For the win, FloatingRock! For the win!
HYTEAndy on June 13, 2008 at 8:01 PM
Ummmmmmmmmmmm…….
Duh?
BallisticBob on June 13, 2008 at 8:01 PM
You’re absolutely right, it wasn’t. It was shamnesty.
Entelechy on June 13, 2008 at 8:02 PM
HA!
Weight of Glory on June 13, 2008 at 8:06 PM
What I described is what was proposed last year. Hopefully, what will be proposed by President McCain will be tougher.
jgapinoy on June 13, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Oh my. Entelechy is so mature and reserved and fair-and-balanced, it irritates this immature partisan (in a good way, Ent ;)).
If she’s throwing around epithets, it’s a good bet something completely outrageous is afoot. And that you’ve lost the argument with neutral observers.
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Never before has the political class in America been so much at war with their own populace.
MB4 on June 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM
–the “huge fine” — there was a waiver provision in the proposed legislation; meaning, if the illegal said he couldn’t afford it, he wouldn’t have to pay it.
–jumping through bureaucratic hoops — such as the “hoop” that illegals had to jump through to prove they had lived here for 2 years? They had to sign an affidavit (a piece of paper that is also signed by a Notary who merely witnesses your signature) in which the illegal swore that he/she had lived in the U.S. for two years. Wow. What a hardship. Or how about the requirement that the illegals prove they can speak English? That terribly burdensome “hoop” consisted of memorizing 5 sentences in English and then writing them down: e.g., Juan ate cake. Maria said hello. Julio likes pie. I love Mexico. Americans are stupid. Congratulations, Mr/Ms Illegal, you’re now fluent in English!
–jumping through geographic hoops — I assume you’re referring to the “touchback” requirement — it was dropped from the final legislation.
–back taxes — the legislation allowed the illegal to pick the 3 years for which he/she chose to pay back taxes, regardless of how long the illegal had been living and working (and not paying any taxes) in the U.S. That is a privilege that is unavailable to any American taxpaying citizens. Of course, the illegal would naturally pick the 3 years in which they made the least amount of money (and/or had the least amount of documentation that could be traced back to them), so most would have ended up owing nothing anyway.
–wait, wait, wait your turn — this is my favorite. The wait for a Z visa was 24 hours after turning in the application. During that 24 hour period, a “background check” on the illegal was supposed to be performed. Of course, no background check can be accomplished in 24 hours; for an American citizen (someone not lying about their identity, or using mulitple identities), a background check typically takes 6-8 months. Once the illegal received his/her Z visa, they had the legal right to remain in the U.S. indefinitely. Unlike foreigners who go through the legal process, the illegals got to do their “wait, wait, waiting” while living and working in the U.S. Foreigners who obey the law have to do their waiting in their own countries before they get their U.S. visas or work permits. So the illegals get what they want (the legal right to stay and work here), while foreigners who obey the law get treated like suckers. As far as waiting for U.S. citizenship, most illegals could care less about that. What they want is the legal right to live and work here, and with the amnesty legislation (and yes, amnesty is what it was), they got exactly what they wanted.
AZCoyote on June 13, 2008 at 8:16 PM
My dear misterpeasea, do you speak from experience (having been at the receiving end, on occasion)? :)
MB4, please post your insightful serfdom commentary. It’s so true and hardly anyone sees what’s clearly in front of us. Thanks ahead.
Entelechy on June 13, 2008 at 8:16 PM
OK, you seem fairly sane about it. Though I still think that no matter how tough a law gets passed, the requirements will be watered down once attention turns elsewhere.
But illegal immigration is one more issue, it seems to me, that we’d get a better deal on if McCain didn’t win the presidency.
With President McCain, more Congressional Republicans will go along with an amnesty bill, which will give cover to more Democrats to do the same. With President Bambi, the Republicans can oppose it whole-heartedly, and pressure the blue dogs to do the same.
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 8:17 PM
But they won’t oppose it. Now, get over that Obama presidency thought. It’s devastating for this country and the world, and for freedom/liberties in general.
Entelechy on June 13, 2008 at 8:19 PM
McCain is a clown.
Don’t even bother hoping that he will do something to become an acceptable candidate.
I’ve heard enough from McCain to give up and vote Barr.
Here’s hoping you’ll do the same.
Dorvillian on June 13, 2008 at 8:25 PM
DO YOU HEAR THAT, Mr. I know what the American People Want????
ctmom on June 13, 2008 at 8:25 PM
That’s queer.
Not voting for McCain and/or making a worthless protest vote to a third party loser that will fail as both a viable choice and as a supposed protest vote to tell McCain how much we hate him …. while all the democrats vote for Obama? That’s what the democrats want us to do!
Makes you wonder.
wise_man on June 13, 2008 at 8:29 PM
The reason that Republican supporters of “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” want it is so that they and/or their campaign contributors can have serf labor. They would probably prefer actual out-and-out slaves but that is illegal.
The reason that shamnesty Democrats want this is so that those who are now illegal can become legal and vote for them. Many of them probably also want to do this for the same reason that shamnesty Republicans do too.
Does anyone think that many of these shamnesty politicians really care one wit otherwise for the illegals.
Does anyone think that any of the shamnesty politicians are going to invite these Mexican Indios and Mezclados to join their elite/exclusive golf clubs?
Come to live in their gated communities, other than as servants?
Invite them to their yachts, other than as low paid deck hands and/or servants?
Invite them to their cocktail parties?
Introduce them to their daughters?
The big majority of the Mexicans who have come here/will come here are Indios and Mezclados, not the Spanish descendant light-skinned ruling class of Mexico. This is a form of ethnic cleansing by Mexico’s ruling class.
So the shamnesty politicians like John McCain are aiding and abetting and facilitating ethnic cleansing.
If the U.N. were not such a joke, they would all be standing trial for trying to reintroduce a form of latter-day-slavery in the United States and for the mass ethnic cleansing of Mexico.
MB4 on June 13, 2008 at 8:29 PM
Direct hit. You don’t sound like a coyote.
————–
Good gosh, Ent, that’s two different subjects on which you’re almost…strident.
We could talk about it. I don’t see how a Bambi presidency would be that much worse than a McCain presidency. And a Bambi presidency has a much better chance of creating a backlash against Democrats/liberalism than a McCain presidency. Which would be better for the country in the long run.
McCain is either just as bad as Bambi on the issues (energy, immigration), and/or he won’t be able to do a thing to stop a Democrat Congress from getting their way.
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 8:35 PM
How very wise.
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 8:36 PM
Excellent.
Well said. But I warn you, all this has been covered at length before and the McCain supporters HAVE to ignore it all in order to justify their faith in McCain.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Redhead Infidel on June 13, 2008 at 8:37 PM
Makes you wonder.
Why a conservative would want to see a real democrat elected over a fake republican.
wise_man on June 13, 2008 at 8:37 PM
Fake Republican = Real Democrat
Glad you finally admitted he’s a FAKE, though. Baby steps…
Redhead Infidel on June 13, 2008 at 8:40 PM
What BS- he never renounced it, he just declared that he couldn’t beat back all us “racists” and enact the brokered deal he made with Teddy Kennedy (the one Irishman whose demise I hope the Devil gets advance warning about).
Besides, amnesty would require him really meaning the penalties and milestones to citizenship that were part of the plan. The reality was it was so filled with loopholes and exceptions for the criminals that it was a no-questions-asked amnesty grab that would have legitimized the drug dealer along with the agricultural worker. It was bad public policy and one isn’t a “McCain hater” for their opposition to cranky old bastard on this point.
highhopes on June 13, 2008 at 8:43 PM
Heh. He doesn’t seem to be able to think past McCain=R=good, Bambi=D=bad. Just completely ignores any discussion of the possibility that a Bambi presidency might lead to the election of more conservatives/Republicans.
The party with the Presidency loses seats in mid-term elections. So, do we want a President McCain, and an even bigger Democrat majority in two years, or a President Bambi, and a smaller Democrat majority in two years?
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 8:44 PM
Asking McCain to listen is futile. He’s a stubborn old fool.
Nothing he can say or do at this stage of the game would win my support. By the way, I’m not angry with the GOP (pronounced GYP) or Juan, I am disgusted.
Zorro on June 13, 2008 at 8:46 PM
Four-eight years of his socialism/Marxism, and you won’t recognize our country, our wallets, and the flicker of light out of that abyss will be too high up, with no Reagan waiting behind the curtain.
I suggest that he better get an extremely strong VP, whom you would really believe in and accept, and say that he’d be president for just 4 years. Then he can die in peace, having fulfilled his (silent) promise to his father and grandfather.
On shamnesty there’s not much separation among Hillary/Obama/McCain, except that Obama will get it the fastest and easiest, with the least requirements, if any, so that he’ll have more to vote for him in a 2nd term.
Entelechy on June 13, 2008 at 8:47 PM
The only reason that they don’t have a criminal record is that our corrupt government refuses to prosecute them. Tens of millions of them are guilty of felonies. The question is dishonest.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 8:47 PM
That it does. That it does.
HebrewToYou on June 13, 2008 at 8:47 PM
I still remember Ted Kennedy standing on the stump with (I think is was Hernendez, does anyone here remember for sure?) saying “don’t worry, we will slam it down their throats” meaning the US citizens. OK its not a exactquote, but its what his statement meant.
If it was a reasonable program why would he think he has to force it on us. Why, if it was a good program would its supports advertise it and explain it in detail? If it was intended to be a good program why was it written in attempted secretcy??
allrsn on June 13, 2008 at 8:54 PM
A little hyperbole there? Even if you use the high estimate of 20 million illegals (that’s the minimum number to qualify as tens of millions, by the way), about half of those are here as a result of overstaying their visas. Illegal entry is a misdemeanor, but illegal presence is only a civil offense.
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 8:56 PM
Each would create a backlash against liberalism. It’s just that if McCain is President, that backlash will hit the GOP. After all, that’s what happened with Bush.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 8:57 PM
They work and live in this country. That means that have ID. Fake ID.
Many of them have SSN’s. Fake SSN’s,
The penalty for this sort of thing is five years in jail. If you or I, as American citizens, attempted that sort of fraud that is what we’d get.
But our government has two sets of laws, and the one for illegals is a lot more lenient than the one for citizens.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:01 PM
Illegal Immigration is a Crime
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
• Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
• Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
• Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Well this is a fine time to dwell into the border issue,
being an election cycle an all,Liberal’s will definently
go out of their way not to p!ss off any voters!
I’m sure McCain will do the right thing,he knows an open border,is an open invitation!
Here’s a thought,the Canadian/American border at certain
spots has no fence,notta,walk across!
And about 50 miles from Duluth,Pidgeon river,had a bridge
connecting the two,it was destroyed years ago,I wonder why,
it was used in the 30’s,booze running!
So,take a deep breath,I’m sure McCain knows,their still is
an ongoing War On Terror,and McCain knows these areas are
ripe for terrorists to get in,even if Democrats want to
bury their heads in the sand over WOT,as well as illegal
immigration!
canopfor on June 13, 2008 at 9:04 PM
Was that parody, canopfor?
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:05 PM
The OPEN BORDERS ZEALOTS are still trying to spin their AMNESTY for Illegal Aliens. Rasmussen and Pew are jokes…
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:06 PM
When I think Bambi, I think Carter. He only managed four years. Granted, he screwed up America and the world pretty good – giving the Islamists their own oil-rich country might be the worst thing he did – and Bambi could possibly do the same or worse. It’s a big deal, I agree. I don’t think that the Democrats, once a Democrat President is in office, will be quite as ready to surrender and take the blame for another lost war (a la Vietnam) as with a Republican President. And with the progress in Iraq, which even some Dems are having to acknowledge, it’ll be that much harder to surrender. Similarly, in the larger GWOT, they won’t want to take the blame for another 9/11-type incident.
It’s a risk, I understand. McCain will come with risks also. Like a hostile Congress that will force on him whatever Bambi would do willingly.
Aside from foreign policy, anything he can do to our country and our wallets can be undone when he’s gone. And that would be the basis of the backlash.
Now Ent, you know that’s not a valid concern. Those people will still be jumping through the hoops of citizenship, don’t you know.
Just kidding, of course.
I’m not sure I can agree that Bambi would get it faster and easier. Like I say, those Republicans on the margin, it looks to me, will be more likely to oppose a Bambi amnesty than a McCain amnesty, and make all kinds of embarrassing news for amnesty proponents. And We the People managed to beat it back once.
I realize I could be completely wrong about the effects of a McCain Presidency vs. an Obama Presidency. But it’s a lot closer thing than the McCain apologists are making it out to be.
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 9:08 PM
All the same arguments which all boil down to one central ‘truth’…which is……
Let’s kill the country and make another one.
I’ll pass. Shamesty or amnesty, CFR or no CFR, I’ll spend my money and use my efforts to fix the flat tire and not wait on that shiney new sports coupe to get me out of the desert.
Hammer away.
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 9:09 PM
Rove does not want his daughter making beds in a motel.
Does he think that making beds is a racial trait of Mexicans? Does he believe that Mexican illegals will not want to go up the ladder and stop pickiing tomatos?
Some elites apparently do think that Mexicans are a plodding race who like to pick cotton and live in trailors and therefore a useful sub-species for dirty jobs.
But other elites are already encouraging upward mobility plans for the downtrodden illegals to buy their loyalty.
That tells me the illegal tomato picker is a temporary solution. It is a generational solution, providing golden parachutes to the Roves of the world who apparently will sell out their country to collect a pile of gold before they die.
The fraud of this racism is the reality, that most inherited wealth lasts three generations before the family shrinks to oblivion.
Rove’s daughter may not be making motel beds, but her grandchildren may well be making beds under a different form of government, in a nation with different borders, when the bond slaves get organized
entagor on June 13, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Not necessarily. It’s fairly easy to get low-skill, under-the table job if you’re willing to take the pay cut. Also, only one person (with an ID) needs to sign a lease; others with no documentation can live with them.
I agree that anyone who has used or distributed a fake SSN should be prosecuted, but it will be difficult to prove if an individual has, in most cases (see above). Since you can’t apply an assumption of guilt for that crime to every illegal immigrant without proof, there will likely be a substantial proportion of them who are here without any criminal record, and yet another proportion whose only criminal record involves the misdemeanor of illegal entry.
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 9:16 PM
Beating ol’ Juan “Z-Visa” McCain’s AMNESTY will be tough. . I mean, within getting your indefinitely renewable, government issued “Z-Visa”, you can be AMNESTIED in 24 hours. That’s a good deal for all of those chuntes and absconders in this country……ILLEGALLY!
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:19 PM
No, you can’t have your own facts, NOT YOURS
It WAS Amnesty, you can support McCain all you want, but you aren’t getting away with denying that he tried to ram an Amnesty bill through in about as sneaky and undemocratic a fashion as he possibly could have.
doubleplusundead on June 13, 2008 at 9:22 PM
This is where I part company with this argument.
If you entered this country illegally; but currently have a job, no criminal record, know english, and are living your life not sucking up tax dollars, then I’m cool with you. Stay and become legal. Make it easy for them to do it. Increase the tax base.
Deport the others; fine. But its unrealistic to expect government to deport 12 million (or whatever the number is) people – especially given that the vast majority fit into the situation above.
lorien1973 on June 13, 2008 at 9:24 PM
It’s not about race or skin color or any of that BS. It’s about LEGAL or ILLEGAL. Nothing else. The only racists out there are the OPEN BORDERS Mexican leaders like Tony Villar, Fabian Nunez, Hilda Solis, Lucille Roybal-Allard, Luis Gutierrez, etc…NCLR, MALDEF, LULAC, Mexica-movement.org, etc…the above mentioned are the racists along with their Communist sympathizing sissy white-boys with their CHE shirts on with matching black-rimmed glasses and gotee beards…
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:24 PM
The only reason it is difficult to prove is because the government has less than zero interest in proving it.
The government regularly sends out large numbers of “no match letters” to employers, telling them that SSN’s their employees provided are invalid. For tax and SSA purposes.
This information cannot by shared with DHS, by law.
I repeat, the government does not WANT to identify these people. If it did, it would be expected to act. And as you must have noticed, the government does not want to act.
So I repeat – there are vast numbers of people in this country violating laws on a daily basis. To say that they have no criminal conviction is sneaky and dishonest. It’s like saying that OJ has no criminal conviction. Technically true, but hiding something horrible. They could and should have criminal convictions, and they would have, in many cases, if only they had broken the law as US citizens.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:25 PM
I agree with that. Some will respond that illegal entry is a crime in and of itself, so the individuals should be deported., but they’re just looking for excuses to pack the deportation buses with as many people as possible.
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 9:27 PM
Build the two-layered fence, with razor-wire, cut off taxpayer dollars for services to Illegal Aliens, workplace enforcement, and some compulory deportations can most definitely be accomplished. It’s happening now. Illegal Aliens are leaving on their own…
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:28 PM
This is a dishonest argument. The only reason they don’t have criminal records is that the government refuses to prosecute them.
And vast numbers of them are sucking up tax dollars. You have to be making about 50k/yr, and paying taxes on it, to carry your weight in this country. Very few illegals meet that standard.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:28 PM
Regarding illegals not being criminals. If you will remember, Congress tried to make illegal immigration a FELONY but then caved in when El Piolin (super popular hispanic DJ) used My Space and other sites on the internet to get millions of school kids to march against it. Don’t you remember all those Mexican flags. It was charming.
mrsmwp on June 13, 2008 at 9:29 PM
Look, you dishonest troll, I’ve just pointed out to you that they are guilty of far more than “mere” illegal entry. Stop beating up your favorite strawman and start engaging the facts.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:30 PM
I agree with that. Some will respond that illegal entry is a crime in and of itself, so the individuals should be deported., but they’re just looking for excuses to pack the deportation buses with as many people as possible.
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 9:27 PM
C’mon, play the Race Card. Your lies and misrepresentations hold no water whatsoever…You need to make a compelling argument as to why MY TAX DOLLARS should go to support Illegal Aliens…
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:31 PM
LOL…talk about strawmen….since when has any argument convinced you to give up your tax dollars for anything?
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 9:32 PM
If there is one thing I’ve learned in the last few years of the immigration debate, it’s that the open borders crowd are staggeringly dishonest.
It’s not simply that they are misinformed about some things. You can correct their errors and then see them repeat the same exact thing just minutes later.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:35 PM
This at least approaches acceptable, assuming you also mean paying a fine, etc. About that “no criminal record” part: before or after they give up their false ID and SSN? I’m betting the number of illegals who fit this description is vanishingly small.
Argh. Straw man alert! They’ll deport themselves. They already are. The Mexican state of Sonora is complaining about the influx of Mexicans across the border.
As Bugs Bunny would say: Chock-full of irony.
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Somebody has to pay the light bill of America. I don’t mind pitching in and doing my part. An average wait in California’s Emergency rooms is 11.5 hours. And to think MY TAX DOLLARS are also footing the bill for these Illegal Aliens who are cluttering up such rooms and lowering my standard of living…Tell me why I should support that?
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:36 PM
I’m not telling you to support that.
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Dishonest indeed…
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:38 PM
What counts as a job? According to Big S, most of them work under the table. That is to say, legally, they don’t have a job.
(I think a lot of them actually work over the table.)
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:39 PM
You have a very collective view of crime and guilt, especially for someone who fancies themselves a conservative. I view criminal offences as things that individuals do, and believe that our government should deal with people without presumption of guilt in one area by virtue (vice?) of their guilt in another area. As always, there will be a whole spectrum of different degrees of illegality, and I am willing to draw a line somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, and not just at one edge.
Big S on June 13, 2008 at 9:40 PM
How so? Where in any of my posts have I told you to support or not support anything?
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Sorry Limerick, not playin’ that game any more. We’re fed up!
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:42 PM
I suppose we should be grateful he did not say “cattle cars”. That’s always a popular one with his crowd.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:42 PM
But..but..These are God’s children we are talking about!
This is one of many reasons I will enjoy watching the arrogant SOB lose.
Valiant on June 13, 2008 at 9:44 PM
You OPEN BORDERS ZEALOTS don’t even want to deport Illegal Alien gangsters! Don’t deny it, we fight against you clowns every day here in L.A..
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:44 PM
I must disagree. The type of change that Obama is very likely to propose and promote will be massive (therefore inefficient) entitlements, and very difficult to slow, much less reverse.
It could be the beginning of the end of the U.S. as we know it.
hillbillyjim on June 13, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Illegal Aliens are not welcome here in America. LEGAL immigrants are!!! We should allow 800,000 LEGAL immigrants a year into America. Not a problem with that. But, spread it around to other countries other than giving preferential treatment to one…
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Sorry you feel that way Df. I made a statement as to where I stand and what I think about the central argument that is being thrown out there as to why not to vote for McCain. That argument is that a Dem president, coupled with a Dem congress, will result in a rebirth of conservatism. It is impossible, as proven by months and months of hearing the same old arguments, to change the Mc-No’s into Mc-Yes. I’m satisfied with that. What keeps you all hollering at voters like me is that we don’t buy into your logic. Plain. Pure. Simple.
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Say WHAT?
If you find that you need to express yourself in that sort of Clintonspeak, it’s probably a good sign that the position you are expressing does not bear being spoken in plain English.
I THINK you just said “The mere fact that they are illegal aliens should not impede us from asssuming that they are innocent in every other aspect”.
If that is what you said, then you are nuts. People who are criminals about one thing tend to be criminal about other things also. And we don’t need to speculate. We know that many of these people are using fake ID. The idea that millions of known law breakers should be presumed innocent is ….. what’s the word I want ….. liberal.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:48 PM
And that is different from the type of change McCain wants, how? How will we reverse his amnesty bill?
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:50 PM
Back to topic, I really dislike McCain’s previous positions and actions on immigration.
However, I have no doubt that his approach will be far more desirable than that of a newly-minted King Obama and the Rubber-Stamp Congress sure to accompany him.
hillbillyjim on June 13, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Nope! What keeps me and Americans hollering is MY TAX DOLLARS being levied out of MY paycheck to support this Illegal behavior by these ingrates…..If the Illegal Alien chuntes were political refugees, I might say ok….but they’re NOT, are they?
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Juan “Z-Visa” McCain can’t reverse his AMNESTY position and has no intention on doing so….
STAY HOME ‘08
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Would you like to share with me your basis for that certainty? Because it sure looks like McCain would be a lot worse from an immigration standpoint then Obama. A McCain bill would be “bipartisan” and get the support of many Republicans in Congress.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 9:54 PM
I don’t believe we are far apart on the cause, or the effect. Where we differ is in solution. The solution of defeat as a path to victory is yours and not one that I believe in.
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 9:56 PM
A classic case study in McCainite trolling technique. Drop some lies to support your man, then disappear when faced with unassailable evidence.
Valiant on June 13, 2008 at 9:57 PM
The politicians are feeling the heat now. They know we’re out here and really pissed off. They’ll never be able to sweep this under the rug like their MSM spokesholes are trying to do. The groupp I work with will continue to work on this issue through to the 2013 election. We are NOT GOING TO STOP!!!!
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:57 PM
Giving AMNESTY to criminals is NO SOLUTION!
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Still no compelling argument as to why my tax dollars should support these criminals and their sympathizers….
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 10:00 PM
I didn’t say it was. Df I am a fence man. I’m like the guys in the poll, damned angry about the open borders. I believe the the weight of public opinion will eventually have the desired effect….on McCain. I do not believe it will have the desired effect on Obama, period. I’ll take the small chance I have with McCain over the no chance I’ll have with Obama.
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Certainly. I take John McCain at his word when he admitted after the shamnesty debacle that he had heard us and that he had learned his lesson (namely, that America wants to secure the border first before tackling the other immigration issues.
Works for me.
Doesn’t mean we don’t have to keep our eye on the ball and many feet to many fires.
hillbillyjim on June 13, 2008 at 10:04 PM
YOUR comprehensive solution carries your crowd, over the cliff. MY comprehensive solution, layed out above, restores the Rule of Law and our national dignity and respect. You’re not fooling anybody…
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 10:07 PM
How’s that for a mixed-mataphor milkshake?
hillbillyjim on June 13, 2008 at 10:08 PM
We’re gonna stay on this “like a june-bug on a tater vine”! Gotta run….later…
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 10:08 PM
I don’t believe I have tried to fool anyone. I’ve given my position. It isn’t going to change based on ANY of the Mc-No arguments that have been put out there so far. Could it change? Sure. But it would take a event or a policy stance that isn’t on the table yet.
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 10:10 PM
I went down to City Hall the other day and filed a complaint both there and at the police HQ, citing large gangs of loitering illegals milling around our Main St. They have segregated by group: the Hondurans won’t stand on a corner with the Mexicans, who won’t loiter with the Guatemalans, etc…so the groups have proliferated wildly. Whereas a few months ago, there were a dozen illegals, there are now about 50-60 in each group. They litter, they pee on the walls of the local businesses, and they sit on curbs and ogle women. It’s not safe to have that many idle men, who already have a proven propensity for breaking the law, lolling about our town.
The police liaison I spoke to (same effeminate asshat I’ve dealt with before on this issue) told me that they go to the Mexican Consulate in Houston, submit any name they like, and the consulate will create an ID card for them on the spot. Of course, it’s a clear-cut case of a foreign government deliberately – and with impunity – undermining and sabotaging our laws, but who cares, right?
Our town is being trashed, our Main Street looks like a barrio, and I’m embarrassed to bring guests into my subdivision by bringing them through town. It’s like driving through the ghetto. The illegals bring their way of life with them – their poverty, their diseases, and their socialistic expectations.
I’ve lived in Mexico on a humanitarian operation, and trust me, you do NOT want their way of life here.
Does anyone think this decay is relegated to the cities, particularly in the Southwest? Think again.
It’s coming to a small town near you…
Redhead Infidel on June 13, 2008 at 10:11 PM
I went down to City Hall the other day and filed a complaint both there and at the police HQ, citing large gangs of loitering illegals milling around our Main St. They have segregated by group: the Hondurans won’t stand on a corner with the Mexicans, who won’t loiter with the Guatemalans, etc…so the groups have proliferated wildly. Whereas a few months ago, there were a dozen illegals, there are now about 50-60 in each group. They litter, they pee on the walls of the local businesses, and they sit on curbs and ogle women. It’s not safe to have that many idle men, who already have a proven propensity for breaking the law, lolling about our town.
The police liaison I spoke to (same effeminate a$$hat I’ve dealt with before on this issue) told me that they go to the Mexican Consulate in Houston, submit any name they like, and the consulate will create an ID card for them on the spot. Of course, it’s a clear-cut case of a foreign government deliberately – and with impunity – undermining and sabotaging our laws, but who cares, right?
Our town is being trashed, our Main Street looks like a barrio, and I’m embarrassed to bring guests into my subdivision by bringing them through town. It’s like driving through the ghetto. The illegals bring their way of life with them – their poverty, their diseases, and their socialistic expectations.
I’ve lived in Mexico on a humanitarian operation, and trust me, you do NOT want their way of life here.
Does anyone think this decay is relegated to the cities, particularly in the Southwest? Think again.
It’s coming to a small town near you…
Redhead Infidel on June 13, 2008 at 10:12 PM
You DO know that McCain reneged on his “lessons learned” just a few weeks ago, don’t you?? It’s not smart to trust that man. He’s a fool.
Redhead Infidel on June 13, 2008 at 10:15 PM
You must have missed this then.
Notice the date…
FloatingRock on June 13, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Lowering your standard of living eh? Gee, what a shocker!!!
DfDeportation on June 13, 2008 at 10:16 PM
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