Irish dump Lisbon Treaty, EU stunned
posted at 9:17 am on June 13, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Ireland’s referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, its latest attempt to pass a massive constitutional update, has produced a defeat. The rejection stops the EU from implementing its new constitution and forces the union to reconsider whether it can pass any expansion of the multinational government in a way that achieves unanimity:
Irish Justice Minister Dermot Ahern says substantial referendum returns show that Ireland has rejected the European Union reform treaty.
Electoral officials expect to confirm the result later Friday.
Ahern based his conclusion on tallies of votes produced nationally by election observers as well as early official returns.
They show the “no” camp ahead in the vast majority of Ireland’s 43 electoral constituencies, while pro-treaty voters were clearly ahead in only a few.
France and the Netherlands rejected the previous proposed constitution on various grounds. With Lisbon, the Irish had objected to changes that they believed would affect their sovereignty, especially on social issues such as abortion. The rejection of a larger, more powerful EU appears to be the common thread through all of these popular votes over the last few years.
Europe has to begin asking itself whether it really wants to be one nation of many ethnicities, or simply a trading system of sovereign nations. The results of its attempts to make itself the former keeps foundering whenever the people of the nations have their say in the matter. It’s all the more understandable with the Irish, who finally recovered their sovereignty just 80 or so years ago, after more than 700 years of foreign rule, and who do not wish to abandon their hard-won independence so quickly.
It would seem that the history of the various peoples of Europe would argue against the abandonment of national sovereignty towards which the EU process is clearly heading. The Balkans have moved in the opposite direction over the last twenty years, as have the Czechs and Slovaks. People want self-determination, not excessively bloated bureaucracies even farther out of their control. The EU experiment as federal government seems destined for failure.
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finally a bit of good news! the europeans aren’t as dumb as I thought!
right4life on June 13, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Well, you can’t have it both ways, you have to include your Muslims in the treaty, Europe.
Indy Conservative on June 13, 2008 at 9:22 AM
Honestly, given the levels of national pride around Europe, that the EU ever came into being.
The latter for sure.
JetBoy on June 13, 2008 at 9:23 AM
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
JiangxiDad on June 13, 2008 at 9:24 AM
…unless they’re Obama sheeple.
jgapinoy on June 13, 2008 at 9:24 AM
I asked this the last time this topic came up:
The EU doesn’t need Ireland. Can they be thrown out?
JiangxiDad on June 13, 2008 at 9:26 AM
I guess the EU will have to go over their heads now, to the Masters of the Universe–the US Supreme Court.
RBMN on June 13, 2008 at 9:27 AM
HOW THE IRISH SAVED CIVILIZATION- again.
profitsbeard on June 13, 2008 at 9:27 AM
Stunning, indeed. Good on ya, brothers. Apparently not all the independent Irishmen left the Isle.
Jaibones on June 13, 2008 at 9:27 AM
Well that means I’ll get phone calls all weekend. One in particular will connect the dots all the way to George Bush.
Oyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 9:27 AM
Ireland’s doing a lot better economically than most of the EU nations right now. I think the question should probably be the other way around.
jon1979 on June 13, 2008 at 9:28 AM
I raise my pint of Harp to the Irish. Alright boys, time to drink and fight!
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on June 13, 2008 at 9:30 AM
There, but by the grace of God….
Kafir on June 13, 2008 at 9:32 AM
HAHAHA! The only EU country that allowed its people to actually vote on it, unlike the other countries that refused to let their people vote - rejects the treaty. Those EU bigwigs better stop allowing their citizens to vote on anything.
Think_b4_speaking on June 13, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Yes, and Ireland’s economic surge started when they rejected socialistic tax structures, made the country business friendly and a good place for investment. I suspect they like it that way now. However, I believe other countries may be denied a public referendum on the Lisbon Treaty this time by Brussels, because they know how it will turn out. Classic.
a capella on June 13, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Let’s make Ireland a state, and drop Massacusetts …. keeping the total at 57.
fogw on June 13, 2008 at 9:41 AM
A sad day for one-world government advocates like Madeline Albright, David Souter, Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
whitetop on June 13, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Because it was done by the elites, not the masses. There’s not a lot of national pride among the EUlite, except for France, and there the elites thought they could turn the EU in to Greater France.
The EEC was a great idea, and the EU initially sold that way (i.e., a trading block). The EUlite then gradually tried to extend it in to the dominating monster we see today.
Annoying Old Guy on June 13, 2008 at 9:48 AM
Europe trends right while we trend left… go figure.
Laura on June 13, 2008 at 9:48 AM
Think again. Ireland is now at the top of my list.
My collie says:
CyberCipher on June 13, 2008 at 9:48 AM
The best part is, I could see other countries voting no before Ireland, this may turn the tide.
Not much difference. As an Irishman living in MA, I can tell you that my cousins back in Ireland are far more liberal than my cousins in MA. MA politics are pretty much dominated by Irish-Americans as it is. Even the politicians who aren’t Irish have Irish surnames, (Kerry, Patrick). It’s no coincidence.
reaganaut on June 13, 2008 at 9:50 AM
Taking your word as gospel, I’ve reconsidered.
Let’s not adopt Ireland, but still dump Massachusetts. I’d say you could come live in my great state reaganaut, but unfortunately I’m stuck here in Pennsylvania. Bitter people with guns and all.
fogw on June 13, 2008 at 9:59 AM
The EU politicians used to be paid by their home countries. This year they get paid out of the EU (Yes, I know the money still comes from all the countries, but the pay slip now says EU).
How much loyalty do you think these politicians will have to their home countries now?
The Eu administatrors will find a way to impliment what they want.
Most EU countries are already ruled by EU directives.
Immigration and deportation are governed by EU directives.
Trash collection is governed by an EU directive. How much sovereignty do you have if you cannot say how to collect the trash.
davod on June 13, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Welcome to the melting pot!
I get so tired of people benchmarking Europe…didn’t we all emigrate for various but profoundly significant reasons?
budorob on June 13, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Bret Stephens has a piece in WSJ that is very pertinent to this discussion.
http://online.wsj.com/article/global_view.html
It is an examination of the theses of Sharansky’s new book, titled “Defending Identity.” Stephens structures the article by using Sharansky’s ideas as a polemic against John Lennon’s song “Imagine.”
Here are the concluding paragraphs–
smellthecoffee on June 13, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Ya, thanks, but as soon as my kids are done with school I plan on heading even further south than PA, if I can make it that long.
I’ll be visiting PA in July though, for Historicon.
reaganaut on June 13, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Sadly I do not think this means a thing. Watch the Eurocrats go to work on the Irish government and their people and / or change the ratification rules by ramming through a number of key provisions as directives (these do not require any kind of ratification by the populace).
Ares on June 13, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Up the Irish! If only we could do something similar with our Federal Govt.
ronsfi on June 13, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Now if only we could break up the US into its constituent parts we might restore some sanity to our government. Alaska for example could rill for the oil it has and sell it to the rest of the independent states. Red states can band together to implement common sense economic policies and watch the blue states drown in a sea of red ink, eco-Marxism, and taxes. Big Government is a Big problem and the Irish were smart to reject the dilution of their sovereignty and the further insulation from the electorate that would be achieved by transferring power to Brussels.
DerKrieger on June 13, 2008 at 10:08 AM
This will force the EU to take what it wants by force, or simply ignore Ireland and do what it wants anyway. There’s simply too much power and corruption to be had to let this slip away.
darwin on June 13, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Finally!!! Good news to start off the day!
But Hitchens says the EU overlords will try this referrendom again again and again until it passes.
pseudonominus on June 13, 2008 at 10:10 AM
A lesson for the Belgies: pushing an Irishman just “gets his back up”, and will not produce the desired result.
Just ask the Brits.
mojo on June 13, 2008 at 10:13 AM
He’s living in a dangerous fantasy if he really thinks that America offers this. Considering how liberal they are, it’s remarkable how much Jews live in the past.
Based on past evidence, the Irish government will schedule another election for next year, and another after that, until such time as the people give them the “correct” result.
flenser on June 13, 2008 at 10:17 AM
And good for the European peoples. I’m all in favor of an eventual federal Europe, but this trying to rush it and impose it from the top down by the governing elites is nothing less than a path to bureaucratic dictatorship. Already, one-third of Britain’s laws are made by the unelected Eurocrats in Brussels, and Parliament — the elected representatives of the people– have no power to change them. (BTW, does this development mean that Britain won’t surrender its sovereignty this summer, in spite of Labour?)
Not that this won’t stop the Euro-elites, of course. They’ll keep pushing this again and again until the people learn to “mind their betters.”
irishspy on June 13, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Ed: People want self-determination, not excessively bloated bureaucracies even farther out of their control.
I want that too! Right here in America! Can we get that? Can we be as self sufficient as the Irish?
Sic Semper excessively bloated bureaucracies!
Doug on June 13, 2008 at 10:29 AM
The concept of nationalism is frowned upon by a large portion of leftists, both here and abroad. This wrong-headed thinking is a result of PC and multi-culti indoctrination, and is a sad trait to see anywhere.
Every country has skeletons in its past, but the lack of national pride is as bad as an excess thereof.
Three cheers for the Irish!
hillbillyjim on June 13, 2008 at 10:33 AM
Ahhh! a great day for the Irish…. Northern Ireland notwithstanding( British influenced and all that). This doesn’t surprise so much because Ireland has fought for independence since even before Brian Boru. Slainte!
MNDavenotPC on June 13, 2008 at 10:50 AM
The treaty will either be resubmitted to the Irish population with marginal changes or the ratification process will continue without Ireland and conclude with the cancellation of all previous European treaties.
Like the United States? I guess not. I would prefer a United Europe of many European ethnicities over a sovereign Germany flooded with third world immigrants.
GermanAtheist on June 13, 2008 at 11:00 AM
“How The Irish Saved Civilization– Part II”
morganfrost on June 13, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Go Irish! I just had a feeling the independence of the the good people of Ireland would come through. Thanks Ed for reporting. I wonder how many times they will have to vote no before it sticks?
d1carter on June 13, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Ed Morrissey said:
It is the European Union governing class that has to start asking that. As for European commoners, they have already spoken.
The US needs to start asking itself why it is supporting the unwanted imposition of an undemocratic government in Europe.
indythinker on June 13, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Might I add, that the New World Order is looking *******er every day.
indythinker on June 13, 2008 at 11:27 AM
The European Union is not a state. It is completely pointless to call it undemocratic, unless you want it to become a state, which is what this treaty was all about. It also included provisions to begin shifting powers to parliament and end the democratic deficit.
The current democratic deficit is grounded in the fact that decisions are made by agreements between Europe’s individual governments. Those individual governments are of course democratically elected, but not all governments of Europe are elected by all the people of Europe. The European commissioners are the most popular targets for this type of agitation, but they are just the flunkies of their governments, who essentially appoint them, and certainly not the Emperors of Europe.
And I don’t think the United States is supporting the European Union. Is see its repeated demands for Turkey’s accession as a clear attempt to wreck it and to turn it into a free-trade zone.
GermanAtheist on June 13, 2008 at 12:02 PM
This is great. I convinced many people to vote ‘No’ and so I’m very happy. I agree with the commenters here who say the EU will use totalitarian methods to try and ram it through anyway. It is still very important that the ‘No’ vote won so that the EU oligarchs be exposed as the sham that they are.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Blah, blah, blah failure to integrate Muslims.
They’re commanded by their religion to kill unbelievers.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 12:14 PM
aengus, I’m sincerely happy for you, your effort rewarded for now. I’m also happy for freedom and independence in Europe, thanks to the feisty and good-natured Irish. Good on them.
Herein lies the difference. If the other 26 would submit it to a vote, it would fail in most, if not all countries. The EU and national politicians know this, and try to ram it down the people’s throat, including in Germany.
In Ireland, having worked in the cardiology medical devices business for a long time, the manufacturing tax is 7%, in California it’s 45%. The companies which moved to Ireland would have had to relocate if this would have passed.
profitsbeard said it best - civilization saved, again, by the Irish. May the world take notice. Wake up rest of Europe, and wake up U.S.A. Lemmings/sheep are dumb, cute, but dumb.
Entelechy on June 13, 2008 at 12:24 PM
Europe needs to band together. Not for some grandiose vision of world domination or even world unification, but simply to assert itself and its interests. Left-wing policies and corrupt officials are easily replaced once a sound political structure is established.
GermanAtheist on June 13, 2008 at 12:30 PM
uh oh, I’ll bet there’s an emergency Bilderberg
meeting over the weekend.
You won’t hear of it. You never do.
davem on June 13, 2008 at 12:42 PM
I disagree totally and I’m surprised you think so. Ireland is too much to the right of the Continent on too many issues. Ditto Switzerland.
I agree with Franco-German cooperation to keep the peace as far as thats possible but I don’t think it need involve all European countries as the EU claims it must.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 12:47 PM
In any case the specific provisions and articles of the Lisbon Treaty do more than just cement unity but grant the authorities unrestrained power to do great evil. They would be allowed to shoot rioters, or any citizen who interferes with the EU’s interests (really), “detain” alcoholics, abolish referenda totally and thats just off the top of my head.
The language of the treaty is so ambiguous that it could be interpreted by the European Court of Human Rights to mean almost anything.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 12:54 PM
Thanks.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 12:57 PM
The Irish were very pro Europe when they were pumping the other nations for development funds. Now the funding is done and they are balking at having to contribute to similar programs in Eastern Europe.
In France and Ireland EU reform referendums failed because of public hostility to the local government and it has less to do with real EC issues. It’s a pity since many of the reforms in the proposal would deal with issues of accountability and democracy within the EC which put so many off supporting the entity.
The EU has a Central Bank… they are growing closer together with or without the ratification of Lisbon.
lexhamfox on June 13, 2008 at 1:00 PM
I’m sure that will be part of the new constitution…
NTWR on June 13, 2008 at 1:10 PM
A simple postponement. The Borg in Brussels will never relent. However the Achilles heel of the entire arrangement is economic disparities. When and if the world ever has a genuine recession, akin to something like the 70’s, the EU would then be at risk to breaking apart as individual country’s tether on the brink of insolvency. Many of the Mediterranean countries, Spain, Italy, Greece etc are de facto bankrupt. The next recession will, as Buffet so famously quipped show “when the tide goes out we see who is swimming naked”.
The EU has always been the great experiment of bureaucracy
over ethnic sensibilities and tribal loyalties. Great bets have been made on this Orwellian enterprise.
patrick neid on June 13, 2008 at 1:11 PM
Give me a break. The EU got it all back and more. We opened up our fishing lanes years ago. The huge Continental trawlers sailed in and cleaned up. Its a multi-million dollar industry.
As far I’m concerned the EU oight to borrow a line from The Hicthhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy: “Goodbye and thanks for all the fish!”
Even if it were true that the EU was responsible for Irish prosperity (it isn’t) we were never told that this was a down-payment on our sovereignty and that we would have to give up our freedom to show our gratitude and appreciation.
Completely untrue. The Irish Government have been re-elected three times in a row. They were re-elected just a few months ago. The Irish electorate does not have a serious problem with them. The problem is with the danger of harmonisation of corporate tax and transferfing centralised military command to Brussels.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 1:16 PM
The EU Development fund is one of the factors contributing to Ireland’s prosperity.
American investment is another important factor. Microsoft did not set up their European HQ in Ireland because of anything the EU did. Intel manufacture microchips in Ireland also. The list goes on and on.
Another factor is the tax and education policies pursued by the Fianna Fail government roughly 25 years ago. They’ve won more elections
Yet another factor is the work ethic of the Irish people - those of us who get up every day and go to work. The Irish work longer hours than any other country in Europe. Isn’t the American complaint about Europeans that they work short hours? Well in Ireland we work long hours and that is part of reason why we are rich.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Without ratification, it certainly won’t involve Ireland. The European Union will continue and add Ireland as another Switzerland or Norway, dominated by our economic power without any formal membership and the rights included in it. It is the same vision most European conservatives have for Turkey’s future status in relation to the EU.
Again, the EU is a way for Europe to assert itself. It started as a system of control directed against Germany in order to keep the peace in Continental Europe, but it has moved beyond that and merely keeping the peace won’t be enough to save Europe.
GermanAtheist on June 13, 2008 at 1:46 PM
Indeed. The other factor for so many American corporations, large and small, is that English is spoken. Companies where quality and regulation/s matter, can’t affort to just ship manufacturing to anyone, specifially in the medical field. It’s easy to train the Irish workforce, in addition to the myriad of tax and ather business breaks.
GermanAtheist, where has the power of the DM gone? The prices in Germany doubled easily with the conversion to the Euro, Germany the economic powerhouse became the do-gooder ‘cow’, the one who patiently provides a good part of the milk for all other. I have no idea why you see this as good, but you’re certainly entitled to it.
Greece, Spain, and a bunch of others would be nothing without the ‘milking’ of the other 2-3 who’ve paid for it all. Ireland took drastic measures to open up, to be different and welcoming to entrepreneurs.
Power of any kind is blinding. If you’re willing to pay for it, giving up sovereignty, freedom, liberty, no one can interfere, and no one should. I just have one peeve, that mostly the people don’t have much say in it.
I do have another peeve, noted before. I’d like for this new EU power to please invest more money and blood in its own defense. Also, if the EU does become a federation, I’d like to see one EU ambassador to Wash. D.C. and only one to the U.N., same as the U.S.A. should then have just one to the EU, and one to the U.N.
Entelechy on June 13, 2008 at 2:13 PM
Very insightful
Entelechy on June 13, 2008 at 2:15 PM
I prefer to say that the EU oligarchs’ choice for an empire instead of a federation seems destined for failure. But it’s probably too late for a federal European government, too, if we can trust Mark Steyn at all.
Kralizec on June 13, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Hurrah for the Irish who have the puck to refute shackles.
maverick muse on June 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM
I just realised something - its Friday the 13th. Unlucky for some, lucky for others.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 2:46 PM
aengus, I’ve always thought the 13th to be lucky, sir.
At the risk of ruffling feathers may I also say a hearty “Nar laga Dia do lamh!” to you and all who fight the World Order hegemony in Ireland.
MNDavenotPC on June 13, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Go raibh maith agat.
aengus on June 13, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Aye, we will!!!!! and one day, we will in the US again!
MNDavenotPC on June 13, 2008 at 3:10 PM
RIP
Entelechy on June 13, 2008 at 3:58 PM
Just remember, Federalism dies the minute you let the Feds get any sort of power. Just look at the US. The minute Lincoln decided that the Federal Government could determine who can leave due to oppression by the government, it was all down hill. Then Wilson started to expand the Federal Government and FDR cemented the Federal Government’s control over everything including the states in every single part of life.
Tim Burton on June 13, 2008 at 4:34 PM
This is wonderful news, not just for Ireland but for all of the people of Europe. The ‘Lisbon Treaty’ is not a treaty but a paradigm for bureaucratic dictatorship which is already in the process of morphing into a PC mulit-culti fascist Nanny State
Ireland turned itself around from stangation to prosperity in the past 15 years or so through tax cuts and other pro-business policies which benefit not only foreign investment ( which was present since the 1960s ) but also help large and small Irish firms–and by the Irish people taking advantage of those policy changes and making the most of them.
Fianna Fail, which is usually in power ( unless a Minister gets caught with a mistress or a pile of cash ) gets much of the credit, because they have been the dominant force in Irish government since the Treaty and they finally Accepted Reality by abandoing their backward pseudo-populist agenda
If you haven’t been here since the 80s, ye’ll hardly recognize the place……….
Janos Hunyadi on June 13, 2008 at 4:47 PM
YES!
RMC1618 on June 13, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Best news I’ve heard all day.
Harpazo on June 13, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Yep
and based to some degree on the Bible, just like the last time
Thanks for the information on Sharanskys book “Defending Identity”
I am still amazed at the speed by which removing trade barriers was redefined to include loss of sovereignity so that the trade organization soon became master and controlled not only trade but what vitamins one is allowed to sell over the counter, or whether a nation should be allowed to ban abortion.
The varying methods of accountability in nations was usurped by trade levels of accountability designed to suit the new master - trade and designed to crush the old master - the culture.
With trade as the new world leader, certain cultures have been given a pass (islam) due to commodity market realities, while other cultures have been crushed (Christian) as impediments to the greased wheels of commerce.
entagor on June 13, 2008 at 6:40 PM
Good news from the Emerald Isle. I think I’m going to listen to “Forty Shades of Green” in celebration :-)
Mooseman on June 13, 2008 at 8:05 PM
Belgium (the ‘capitol’ of the EU) is on the brink of civil war. Germans become increasingly disillusioned about being almost solely responsible for propping up the Euro with support for returning to the DM on the rise…
The EU has some stormy waters ahead. I’m not saying they won’t ever get a more unified face, but there are still a few BIG missteps in the wings before that happens.
MannyT-vA on June 14, 2008 at 9:06 AM