Team McCain Conference Call: oil prices
posted at 1:10 pm on June 12, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Rep. Eric Cantor started off by talking about the “shock” American families feel with high prices. The time for action has come, but Barack Obama’s comments yesterday show how out of touch he is with this shock. He says that Obama’s suggestion that the only problem is the rate of increase and not the price demonstrates that an Obama presidency would not improve matters. He is “out of touch”.
Doug Holtz-Eakin says that McCain is not “out of touch”, and touted his gas-tax holiday as an example. Again, they point out that Obama voted for such a holiday in Illinois. They then attacked Obama’s tax policies, which will hit taxpayers across the spectrum. John McCain wants to lower corporate tax rates, introduce incentives for modernization, and keep access to capital easy through lower tax rates on capital gains and dividends. Holtz-Eakin makes the rather common-sense case that tax increases on business get passed on to consumers, creating inflationary pressures and not real growth.
Questions:
- Amanda Carpenter — How about drilling in ANWR, and where else can we drill? — Still opposed to ANWR but is open to more production on federal lands.
- Jeff Mason, Reuters — Gas tax holiday got panned by economists and backfired on Hillary Clinton. Is there feedback that says it’s politically adept? — McCain feels that it’s right, and can be done quickly and simply. It’s not a panacaea.
- James Pethrokoukis — Won’t a cap & trade plan force higher energy prices? — McCain’s plan has generous use of offsets, as well as incentives for modernization. The realistic model shows price increases in the future.
- Carol Costello, CNN — Why not draw up legislation now for the gas-tax holiday? — He did, and the Democrats blocked it. Cantor says it got blocked in the House as well.
John McCain is not going to find many votes here by splitting the difference. We have enormous resources on federal lands — an estimated 1.5 trillion recoverable barrels of oil in shale, for instance — and he needs to take action to start accessing those reserves. That means allowing for drilling in the upper plains area, in Montana and the Dakotas, to recover oil from massive new fields as well. If he wants to preserve the 0.01% of ANWR that would get affected by the drilling, then he had better start taking action to find oil elsewhere.
The gas-tax holiday is a joke. Not only would it do nothing for prices as the demand would increase with the temporary price cut, it would only make the eventual price shock worse when the taxes got reapplied. It would save the average family less than the cost of two tickets to a major-league baseball game over the entire period. In fact, the next price shock would hit right before the election.
We already know where Obama stands on this issue: he likes the high prices, if not the speed at which they arrived. What will John McCain do differently? So far, his campaign and McCain himself have made themselves as clear as mud. We need a clear plan from the McCain campaign that includes massive new efforts to produce domestic supplies of oil, as well as nuclear power and more effort on renewables. They are missing the opportunity of a lifetime on this issue.
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Hollowpoint:
I think McCain’s overall point is that we need to make better use of what is already available. Such as his support of flex fuel cars. And more alternative energy sources. I think we need to increase production too, and McCain is not against all production increases, he has not ever said that.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 3:49 PM
sorry for the mostly redundant post.
:)
catmman on June 12, 2008 at 3:52 PM
patrick:
I don’t think it would have made any difference if they had balanced the budget. After all the Democrats just passed a huge farm bill over Bush’s veto and somehow they are the ones with the higher approval rating.
My point is that back when conservatives were complaining about Bush and immigration and Miers and Dubai and all kinds of things they forgot that he actually does support more oil production. And Republicans in general have always supported increased oil production, but the right still bitched and whined about them. And now we have a Democratic Congress. McCain won the nomination because the Republican rank and file think he is the guy most likely to win the general. If they had not made conservatives unappealing to the general public maybe that would not be the case.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 3:54 PM
Hollowpoint:
He’s not against ALL production increases… just against production increases in the places that the oil happens to be.
Flex fuel cars? Ethanol is a joke. It’s completely non-viable as a gas alternative; it’s only purpose is to subsidize farmers and gain their votes. Sure, we should investigate alternative energy sources; however that doesn’t do a hell of a lot to ease energy prices in the near future.
In fact, I seriously wonder if McCain doesn’t share Obama’s view of higher gas prices being a good thing.
Hollowpoint on June 12, 2008 at 3:56 PM
You’re over-estimating him. He has no clue. He’s been fed a talking point on taxing oil company profits and exploring non-petroleum energy sources. He couldn’t even handle Matt Lauer whn it came to questions about gasoline. Like anybody’s car can run on nuclear, solar or wind.
BigD on June 12, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Funky,
That would be another great educational tour not only for McCain but for all Americans.
You know I have a weak spot for Sarah that’s why I mentioned ANWR first!
Terrye,
Obama being in the current lead has nothing to do with McCain’s current or Bush’s prior position on drilling. McCain is out of touch now because he doesn’t comprehend the massive damage our current policy, which he supports, is doing to the rest of the world where energy/food pricing can be as much as 50%, and rapidly climbing, of a daily budget.
While it is important to stress our national interest there is a point where it goes beyond the pale. When the Dems and McCain talk their goblygook on energy plans they have crossed over. I have no hope for the Dems, they have wanted to cross that line years ago, but I didn’t think McCain would go there when presented with the hard facts on policies that result in high prices for food and energy.
The danger for McCain is, if his ideas are even remotely similar to Obama’s on energy, cap and trade, global warming and the like the crowd will demand the real item and elect Obama going away.
patrick neid on June 12, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Hollowpoint:
That is not true, flex fuel cars can make a big difference. Better gas mileage can make a big difference too. And believe it or not there is oil in places other than ANWR.
Last month the Chinese increased their oil imports by 25%. The experts think that is only the beginning. And ethanol is not joke, if it is done right, neither are any of the biofuels. Right now there is a push to buy Brazilian ethanol. Any diversification that will limit the ever growing demand for oil is a good thing. I don’t care what you drill or where you drill, if Asian demand continues to grow at the present rate we will not be able to keep up with it without using technology and alternative fuels.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 4:03 PM
patrick:
My point is that back when conservatives were complaining about Bush and immigration and Miers and Dubai and all kinds of things they forgot that he actually does support more oil production.
And Republicans in general have always supported increased oil production, but the right still bitched and whined about them. And now we have a Democratic Congress.
McCain won the nomination because the Republican rank and file think he is the guy most likely to win the general. If they had not made conservatives unappealing to the general public maybe that would not be the case.
So as far as the damage our current position is doing to the world: the consensus of the world is that we consume too much, use too much.
The Russians tried that windfall profit thing and took 90% of the profits over $30 a barrel from Russian companies. That means they have actually cut production. The Russians say they will change this policy, but it will take 2 years to get back into higher production.
OPEC says we do not need more oil, we need a stronger dollar.
Nothing we do is going to effect prices right now, other than conservation.
The only other thing that might help in the short term in is if the IEA releases oil onto the market. OPEC has said this move constitutes a threat to OPEC, but it is in fact a response to global market pressures.
But what we are seeing here from a lot of pundits is the usual tendency to ignore something for years and then go ballistic and accusatory in one fell swoop. Just think, if they had made increased oil production the big issue instead of illegal immigration, the Republicans might have helped themselves and the President and the country. But nooo, they were not concerned with the price of oil back then.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Would you rather find unity and work to bash democrats, or pick scabs with McCain and lose seats in both houses of congress, and lose the White House?
There is unity to be found, and the democrats are vulnerable in VERY OBVIOUS ways on this issue–party line votes against oil shale, party line votes against offshore drilling, party line votes against a gas tax holiday–all in the last month.
All three are votes for higher gas prices short term and long term.
McCain is a poopy head! isn’t exactly gonna win many congressional elections.
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM
The main difference (on energy is general) is that McCain is strongly pro-nuclear. McCain would also support offshore drilling if the state involved approved. I imagine that even California and Florida will get tired of paying more someday.
RBMN on June 12, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Did you just copy and paste your earlier comment?… and isn’t that spam?
Lehosh on June 12, 2008 at 4:18 PM
With all do respect Terrye, ethanol grown from corn here or anywhere is an ecological, environmental disaster. That’s putting aside the fact that it takes marginally more energy to make than it produces.
Brazilian ethanol from sugarcane does makes some sense. Of course we put a tariff on that so it currently is not viable here. Even McCain, originally against ethanol, then grudgingly for it, is now against future benchmarks.
When you start putting food in your gas tank you don’t have an energy problem your have a priority problem. All the gas ethanol supposedly produces, with its rape of the environment along with trillions of gallons of clean water wasted along with millions of tons of pesticide is lying right below our feet. Nothing but a few refineries and well heads could take care of.
Corn ethanol will go down as one of the greatest boondoggles of all times.
patrick neid on June 12, 2008 at 4:18 PM
You mean other places like offshore? Oops- McCain is opposed to drilling there, too. The Chinese aren’t though- they’re drilling not far off our own shores, where American companies are forbidden to drill by McCain and his fellow Democrats.
Oops- my bad. McCain is still technically a Republican, even if he spends more time cavorting with the likes of Lieberman, Kennedy and Lautenberg than Rebpulicans.
The Dems will never allow the tariffs on Brazilian ethanol to be lifted- that would defeat the sole purpose of ethanol, which is to buy the votes of the domestic ag industry. And even if they were, we’d still be in the same boat- relying on a foreign country for energy. Besides, it takes about as much energy to produce ethanol as the ethanol itself provides. Not that I expect someone as gullible as McCain to understand that.
Hollowpoint on June 12, 2008 at 4:20 PM
I’m riding a motorcycle to save on fuel costs and the ethanol is making a mess of my carbs. It’s like pouring maple syrup in the tank.
Hening on June 12, 2008 at 4:21 PM
It is, but somebody asked me specifically what I thought, and then never replied. Since we’re on the second page, I thought I’d try to catch them if they came back.
Are you the comment police?
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Memo to Hot Air staff:
One funky chicken has taken to simply copying and pasting posts repeatedly. The 4:14 post above was posted verbatim earlier in the thread; funky also has posted the same press release on Orrin Hatch and shale research at least three times in the past two days.
Can we stop this?
BigD on June 12, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Uh, you do realize that Flex fuel gets LESS miles per gallon?
You do realize that it takes almost as much energy to grow the corn, and do transport, as you get from ethanol as the ethanol only burns with about 2/3s of the energy?
You do know that the combination of higher fuels, and higher corn prices (due to ethanol) is driving up worldwide food prices? That people are starving in this world so that Congress can spend your tax dollars on somthing that does NOT give a net energy increase to the US?
Romeo13 on June 12, 2008 at 4:26 PM
To be clear–McCain is wrong on cap and trade, and wrong on immigration. No question about it.
But, how can you expect him to “reach out” to folks who are uncomfortable with him, if every time he opens his mouth or proposes something like the gas tax holiday all he hears is “I HATE YOU” in return?
Really, again, were the Bush tax cuts a bad idea because they were temporary? Were they “gimmicky” because they would show people that taxes reduced their purchasing power? Were they worthless because they wouldn’t solve a long term problem like insufficient domestic oil production?
I really hope McCain will listen to Orrin Hatch and Wayne Allard on oil shale. There is more oil in the shale than there is in ANWR, or at least as far as we know.
McCain apparently said he’s open to more drilling in his answer to Amanda Carpenter. Let’s be nice, and try to win him over to whole hog support for oil shale development.
It would let us hammer that POS Ken Salazar at the same time, which would be good fun for the whole family!
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 4:29 PM
People don’t know about Orrin Hatch and oil shale. What’s wrong with posting the information in more than one thread?
Hatch deserves recognition for his efforts, and the conservative pundits aren’t giving it to him from what I’ve seen.
Call it my effort to thank him, and to try to get others to thank him and support him.
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Terrye,
“My point is that back when conservatives were complaining about Bush and immigration and Miers and Dubai and all kinds of things they forgot that he actually does support more oil production.
And Republicans in general have always supported increased oil production, but the right still bitched and whined about them. And now we have a Democratic Congress.”
Nobody forgot anything. You need to let your “rabid conservative” thing go. This link has nothing to do with Bush’s drilling position. Virtually everyone supports that.
The problem we have at the moment is that McCain doesn’t support Bush’s position. Are you having a hard time with that. Stop shilling.
The immigration bill was thrown out by the American people. Get over it. Geezzzz. I told you that bill had no chance. It had nothing to do with your imagined Ghengis Khan right wing conservatives and everything to do with the vast majority of Americans saying no. You always lead everything back to this issue. In some respects you are like Dems and the Florida recount.
Let it go. We have moved on. There was no conspiracy. The hardliners are an extreme minority that you build into a hobgoblin that doesn’t exist to explain why people don’t follow your advice or to make sense of things you find incomprehensible.
I liked Rudy, he’s not the candidate. There were no “hardliners” that shut him down despite their ranting and raving. He just didn’t cut it apparently, much to my surprise and chagrin. Last thing I’m going to do now is embarrass myself saying it was “those hardliners”.
patrick neid on June 12, 2008 at 4:39 PM
patrick:
My point is that all some people do is bitch bitch bitch.
Did they really support Bush’s position on oil? I guess I missed that in all the complaints about just about everything else. And in the process conservatives weakened their hand and their president.
And now that act as if they have to drill drill drill, right this very second, even though this is not a new problem. But then, they found a way to use it to smack McCain around and so it is important above all else. right now.
Until something else comes along.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Romeo:
The point to flex fuels cars is to offer an alternative to gas and oil. Even people like Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit support flex fuel cars. But now that we see McCain does, it is going to become a worthless useless ridiculous thing to do bitch about, just like the gas tax holiday.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 4:59 PM
That is so true.
Well, other than a few million conservative votes that he won’t get otherwise.
The problem is: that the entire nation WOULD gain if he changed on this issue. But no, Your beloved “Maverick” would rather see the economy destroyed than do something sensible instead of ‘Mavericky’.
——————————————-
Funky:
Hey, I looked into Bob Shaffer; Thanks for the lead…. He is my kind of guy… other than the political ambition, he reminds me of a younger me. I sent him a few bucks, probably will do so again in a month or two.
What I can’t figure out is how someone can be so enthusiastic about Shaffer, my man Pearce, Hatch’s oil shale bill etc. and STILL be one of McCain’s biggest cheerleaders.
LegendHasIt on June 12, 2008 at 5:00 PM
patrick:
My point is that all some people do is bitch bitch bitch.
Did they really support Bush’s position on oil? I guess I missed that in all the complaints about just about everything else. And in the process conservatives weakened their hand and their president.
And now that act as if they have to drill drill drill, right this very second, even though this is not a new problem. But then, they found a way to use it to smack McCain around and so it is important above all else. right now.
Until something else comes along to complain about.
We need to deal with this problem with more than just drilling,that will take years to take effect.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Legend:
He will probably not get those votes anyway. After all they have been promising for years not to vote for McCain, or the GOP or whatever. So, if McCain does an about face on this issue, how long will it be before they find some other reason not to vote for him?
I am sorry, I want to see increases in oil production too. But this whole thing strikes me as a ginned up issue being used by certain people to gain influence. It is like the immigration thing all over again. It will be the single most important thing in the world, until it isn’t.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 5:05 PM
And Romeo:
I live in the midwest, one thing that is driving up corn prices here is the crappy weather. In case no one noticed out there we are having one of those flood of a century things. Another thing that drove up corn prices was oil prices. That is the root of a lot of things. It always has been. And not all ethanol comes from corn. For instance the ethanol from Brazil is made from sugar.
And fuel can be made from anything from grass to manure to sunflowers.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 5:09 PM
No, it was a worthless stupid thing before McCain ever got onboard with it. If you want to go to another fuel, like, oh, Compressed Natural Gas? I’m all for it, but turning FOOD into FUEL is not only ineffecient, but EVIL when we have people starving in this world.
McCain being for, or against, it has nothing to do with my opinions on a lot of issues. Thats actualy part of this whole debate of Conservatives against McCainiacs. Your so involved in getting McCain elected and defeat the Debil Obama, that you can’t look at the ISSUES… while I, for one, look at the issues.
Romeo13 on June 12, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Sigh… you do realize that growing anything takes WATER?
Here in Colorado we had many farmers cut off from using their wells last year… California has just declared a drought… anytime you take farmland and turn that “food” into fuel, you are taking food off of someones table.
Even IF they get the switchgrass thing working, it will still take land and water that could be used for FOOD.
Romeo13 on June 12, 2008 at 5:14 PM
So, bad weather is driving up corn prices, so food prices go up, and you want to use MORE of that commodity for fuel? Which will make it MORE scarce, and drive prices up even MORE?
I’d rather drill, than take the food out of someones mouth.
Romeo13 on June 12, 2008 at 5:16 PM
Romeo:
I made a point of saying that I think we need alternative fuels. I also made a point of saying that it did not have to be corn. And McCain is not a strong supporter of corn based ethanol either.
But still, growing demand and high costs of production are part of the reason corn prices are high as well as ethanol. Add to that millions of acres underwater and that is more pressure on prices.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 5:19 PM
Romeo:
Turning farm land into fuel? Anything can be fuel. That is my point. And the thing that takes more farmland is people. Their cities, their subdivisions, their highways, their parks etc. Some of the best farmland in Indiana is part of Indianapolis right now.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Basic capitalism: when prices go up you need to either increase supply or cut demand.
We can not increase supply in anything less than years no matter where we drill…. but we can decrease demand with some conservation policies and by using alternative fuels. Bringing up the dollar might help too.
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 5:27 PM
LOL…. you say don’t drill because it will take a couple of years to bring it to market…
But then go on about alternate fuels, for which there is no infrastructure??? For which our cars are not built?
As for conservation, it will take YEARS for higher prices to make any major difference, because people just can’t REPLACE their vehicles… they can’t afford it. AND any conservation we do here will just get chewed up by China and India importing more oil.
Here… something I wrote for O’Reily and his conservation rant…
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_wpsup_k_w.htm shows that 47% of the oil used in the US is used for driving.
Diesel-powered transport (trains, merchant ships, heavy trucks, etc.) consumes about 20%, and air traffic consumes most of the remaining 15%. Thus cars consume about 65% of Gasoline used (from Wikipedia).
From http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/table12.xls in 2005 we see world wide 83,607,220 Barrels per day were used…America used 20,802.090 barrels per day, or 24% of the worldwide total.
So, if every US driver was able to decrease their driving by 10%, we would only be affecting 65% (Cars) of 43% (motor fuel) of 24% (oil used in US) of the worldwide supply….
Or…. 67/100ths of ONE PERCENT of oil consumed. Your 10% less driving solution will NOT affect worldwide oil prices because of declining US production.
Romeo13 on June 12, 2008 at 5:34 PM
I see a tidal wave of public sentiment for opening drilling off shore and on federal lands coming soon. The liberal elites will be bludgeoned into submission by the “working class” folks who can’t afford to drive to work or the grocery store anymore.
Wyznowski on June 12, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Anything can emit CO2. That is my point. And the thing that emits more CO2 is people. Their breathing, their energy use, their cars, their very living etc…
Perhaps we can use your ideas for some TRUE conservation…
catmman on June 12, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Terrye,
Ginned or not this is the most important issue of the day, and will continue to be, as crude oil and corn continue to set new all time high prices. Unlike so much else in life and politics gas and food prices effect everyone daily. More than that they effect everyone especially the poor worldwide. As I mentioned earlier, god forbid crude oil hits $200-$250.
I expect Obama and the Dems to have a tin ear, wrapped in their faux greenery, but not McCain. It is not acceptable. He needs to have his opinion on this changed and changed now. There is no excuse for an energy plan that does not include drilling everywhere starting yesterday! Of all the elements drilling has the quickest turn around time, especially ANWR, to affect current prices.
patrick neid on June 12, 2008 at 5:40 PM
There is no excuse for an energy plan that does not include drilling everywhere starting yesterday! Of all the elements drilling has the quickest turn around time, especially ANWR, to affect current prices.
patrick neid on June 12, 2008 at 5:40 PM
Amen to that!
catmman on June 12, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Gasoline is not the only commodity which has gone through the roof. Not a word on the price of home heating oil. I will keep pounding away on this since Sen. McCain won’t.
diogenes on June 12, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Dude, I’m a NObama cheerleader. McCain has the best shot of beating Obama. Show me polls that say one of these nutjobs running for small parties have a shot at NObama, I’ll give them a look. I guess. But McCain is better than Barr because as frustrating as he is, he’s not an anti-Patriot act nut.
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Of course he does. HE’S A GLOBAL WARMIST!
Terrye:
If flexfuel, and ethanol, and any other alternative fuel is so wonderful, why oh why does the gummint have to pass laws mandating their development and use? Why aren’t private investors doing it on their own? When even TIME Magazine and Paul Krugman call ethanol a hoax and a boondoggle, you gotta start thinking maybe it is.
misterpeasea on June 12, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Who cares, if it is money that is staying in the US economy? Fine with me. Happy to pay these prices if none of it is going to Hugo or the House of Saud.
melda on June 12, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Hollowpoint, yes, pretty much everything you say about McCain is true. He’s an obnoxious asshole in lots of ways. BUT he’s way better than Obama. Thomas Sowell says it’s a no-brainer, and I agree.
That’s why I want to see us focus on using McCain to keep Obama out of the oval office, and also encourage folks to get behind Legendhasit’s guy Pearce in NM and Schaffer in CO and Cornyn in TX, and … give me more names of possible conservative senators up for election this year….
Keep Obama away from being my husband’s Commander in Chief, and send him to DC with strong conservatives in congress.
The narrative…democrat obstruction on gas tax holiday, democrat obstruction on offshore, democrat obstruction on oil shale is there. This could make pollsters and pundits cry if the GOP/RNC got out strong on this issue.
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 6:04 PM
I say pi$$ on McCain and his entire campaign.
Zorro on June 12, 2008 at 6:06 PM
“him” refers to McCain, of course. The Senate doesn’t have much power to keep POTUS from screwing over the military…
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 6:17 PM
That’d be nice, but it’s not going to happen. The Democrats are going to increase their majorities in the House and Senate.
So it’s not going to matter a whole lot who your husband’s CinC is. Whoever the CinC, he’s going to have to get his actions approved by a Democrat Congress.
Now, do you want to encourage the leftward drift of the Republicans by electing McCain, or do you want to stop it?
misterpeasea on June 12, 2008 at 6:22 PM
Guess I’d better re post this from yesterday’s thread:
————————————————-
I’ll agree that it costs lots more to refine oil shale than it does from wells and even tar sands, but at todays oil prices of around $135 a barrel; once the plants are established… Not even accounting for technology advances that will happen when we get serious about it… We can produce it for $81 to $100 per barrel less than we are paying now:
Source: US Department of Energy
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/npr/Oil_Shale_Economics_Fact_Sheet1.pdf
And there have been some significant advances in technology in the last couple of years, since that report was written.
LegendHasIt on June 12, 2008 at 6:22 PM
The only way to keep my husband from having Dick Durbin’s protege as Commander in Chief is to vote for McCain.
Why on earth would I not do anything I could to keep the party of Jack Murtha away from the oval office?
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 6:22 PM
This issue is so ripe for plucking if it ever was! Good lord! GET A CLUE!!! Keep bringing the bill up for vote even if the democrats block it. Sooner or later, America will pay attention to whom is thwarting progress.
SouthernGent on June 12, 2008 at 6:24 PM
Summary: McCain has his head up his ass on this issue
brak on June 12, 2008 at 6:26 PM
My understanding is that shale-to-oil is about $60/bbl and coal-to-oil is about $40/bbl.
So if nobody is doing it, they don’t think oil prices will stay as high as $40/bbl.
Some companies started building coal-to-oil facilities in the 70s, then the bottom dropped out, and they abandoned their plans.
misterpeasea on June 12, 2008 at 6:29 PM
That was interesting, thanks.
melda on June 12, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Charles Krauthammer noted a few weeks ago that there is one thing only that is standing in the way of McCain changing his idiotic, election losing position on ANWR:
His vanity.
Even Michael Medved (a faithful McCain acolyte if there ever was one) says that McCain has to change his position on this because it’s an emergency and our national security is at stake.
This is insane, and if anyone would like to infer that I question McCain’s sanity, feel free.
Buy Danish on June 12, 2008 at 6:31 PM
This Brazilian “flex fuel” farce…this is the country that has cleared more pristine land then any other country, for their farm lands.
Do you think the liberals will want us to clear our forests to raise more corn?
Already addressed is the less efficiency of the fuel.
The solution is a multi-pronged attack, the the spear head is more drilling and refining. Now way around that, we (the U.S.) need more oil, long term, we may be able to wean our way off some of that. But we need a program of self sufficiency.
right2bright on June 12, 2008 at 6:34 PM
bullshit. the CinC has a whole lot of power to fuck over the military from within the executive branch
I’m not a quitter. I’m a fighter. Why so eager to crawl in the corner and surrender?
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 6:35 PM
The Democrat Congress is who is going to allocate funds for the military. They can force withdrawal from Iraq, reduce pay, supplies, readiness, anything else they want to do. No matter who is President.
While President Bambi is more likely to withdraw from Iraq than President McCain, how much more likely is that? We have had great success since the beginning of the surge. Does President Bambi really want to be blamed for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory? Sure, the Democrats want defeat when there’s a Republican President to blame, but will they want defeat when a Democrat is President?
So, weigh the difference in the risk of withdrawing between McCain and Bambi versus the risk of encouraging more leftward drift from the Republicans. It looks to me like that may be a bigger threat to the military, and America, than the threat that Bambi will withdraw from Iraq.
misterpeasea on June 12, 2008 at 6:36 PM
Yep. Every. single. day. From here until November.
GOP takes back congress, or at least closes the gap.
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Come the fall, and that will be a major campaign issue. Hard to sell heating oil, when it is 100 degrees outside (yeah I know snow in Montana).
right2bright on June 12, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Shell Oil is ready to go on oil shale. The democrat congress enacted a moratorium. Hatch’s bill was to overturn the democrat moratorium. It failed on a party line vote.
Hatch is royally pissed off, and has laid the groundwork for a charge on the issue.
Why Hannity hasn’t had him on? Bill Bennett? Rush Limbaugh? Bill O’Reilly?
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 6:40 PM
How, exactly, do you mean? More power than the Congress? And if the Congress wants to screw the military, can the President do anything about it?
I’m being realistic. The Democrats are going to increase their majorities.
misterpeasea on June 12, 2008 at 6:40 PM
Day 1: introduce gas tax holiday legislation. GOP gets behind it big time, even if it is only a short term relief. Democrats vote it down.
Day 2: introduce offshore drilling expansion. GOP gets behind it big time, even if it will only really increase oil supply in the long term. Democrats vote it down.
Day 3: introduce oil shale moratorium cancellation. GOP gets behind it, democrats vote it down.
Day 4: introduce gas tax holiday
rinse and repeat.
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 6:43 PM
Another thing I noticed before, but didn’t really think about on the oil shale fact sheet from the DOE:
They allow for a 15% rate of return with world oil at those $54 & $35 prices…
Which is a higher RoR than the ‘evil, big-oil corporations’ are now making on selling gasoline to us ’spoiled, greedy, stupid, Global Warming producing, Gaia murdering’ car drivers.
LegendHasIt on June 12, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Missed the day of the ANWAR SLIDESHOW and vote…
Grand Canyon my pahtukus…
Romeo13 on June 12, 2008 at 6:56 PM
I’d love to see that happen.
Unfortunately only about 30% of the House GOP and 15% of the Senate GOP have the guts OR the brains to do anything like that.
And besides that, some of the Fraternity Brothers in the Senate that might be willing otherwise won’t do it because it would undermine McCain’s position.
LegendHasIt on June 12, 2008 at 6:57 PM
You would have to slowly phase back in the federal taxes, A single day 15 to 18 cent jump in prices would cause all sorts of hell.
Not that I care much, my 2001 car only has 62k miles on it.
F15Mech on June 12, 2008 at 6:59 PM
I left out ANWR because with the 3 day repeat cycle we make our point without picking a fight within the party, with the guy who won the nomination elections.
And the shock of the sudden increase after the 3 month tax holiday is kinda the point, as it would be a perfect lesson on taxation, and conveniently close to the election too.
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 7:08 PM
Other than the gas tax holiday, McCain is against ALL of the things you mentioned. He just isn’t as vocal about them as ANWR.
OOH, That’s fightin’ dirty. Machiavelli or Sun Tzu? :-)
LegendHasIt on June 12, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Nah, Tricky Dick Nixon…
/bad Nixon impersonation…
“You won’t have the taxpayer to kick around anymore…”
Romeo13 on June 12, 2008 at 7:46 PM
With all due respect, Mac needs to pull his head out of his rear and look at the light of day. Folks are hurting big time. He needs to park his attitude at the door and support drilling in ANWR and off-shore. He needs to push Nuclear (Nuculer) power, and stress that energy independence is not only good to the people economically but is vital to the security of our nation. Take a small moment to pause and contemplate what our nation’s outlook would be like towards the rest of the world if we were not dependent on 7th century sand-dwellers for our energy needs. What a world that would be. Talk about U.S. ascendant; sheesh, in Texas, tha would be as good as a CFS with cream gravy (and a Shiner Bock on the side). Seriously, if McCain has any hope (albeit slim) of beating the Messiah, he has to find areas of “separation.” This is one of those areas. Do it now Johnny Mac or fail at you own peril.
second digit on June 12, 2008 at 8:32 PM
I just WISH we had a ‘Tricky Dick Nixon’ running for President now. Unfortunately, what we do have is what is between the Tricky and the Nixon.
———————————————-
.
Well, I gotta give him that… He is for nuclear power.
Although his words on it would have a little more credibility if he would get off the “
StraightCampaign Talk Express for a couple of days and actually put some legislation together that advances that cause, rather than merely paying occasional lip service to it.If he had been as willing to invest as much effort into ACTUALLY doing something about Energy Legislation in the last 10 years as he has in trying to sneak amnesty bills through and successfully weakening the First Amendment, I’d be a bit less negative about him.
LegendHasIt on June 12, 2008 at 8:57 PM
LegendHasit, hey, whatever works to slap folks in the face with the tax right before election day….
Remember, all you have to be is less negative about McCain than you are about Obama. It’s remarkably easy, once you get the hang of it :-) really.
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 9:14 PM
He’s squishy on the oil shale right now, and even worse on offshore drilling in deference to his friend Charlie Crist, but he hasn’t drawn the hard line in the sand like ANWR. Massive public outcry could force him to get on board at least the oil shale thing.
But if skeptics got behind the tax holiday at the same time they pushed the oil shale and offshore drilling, well, …
funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 9:18 PM
That is a great one dude! LMAO!
gxpgxp on June 12, 2008 at 9:38 PM
I’m in for a buck! I would like to infer that you have questionned the Great Man’s sanity.
Me, too.
Jaibones on June 12, 2008 at 9:45 PM
This is insane, and if anyone would like to infer that I question McCain’s sanity, feel free.
Buy Danish on June 12, 2008 at 6:31 PM
His sanity is the least of it.
I question whether he isn’t just a stupid lying bastard.
TexasJew on June 12, 2008 at 9:49 PM
He should but he won’t.
F15Mech on June 12, 2008 at 9:51 PM
You mean like the massive public outcry caused McCain to back down during his sponsored shamensty bill?
F15Mech on June 12, 2008 at 9:55 PM
My understanding is that shale-to-oil is about $60/bbl and coal-to-oil is about $40/bbl.
So if nobody is doing it, they don’t think oil prices will stay as high as $40/bbl.
Some companies started building coal-to-oil facilities in the 70s, then the bottom dropped out, and they abandoned their plans.
misterpeasea on June 12, 2008 at 6:29 PM
My understanding is that Santa Claus is coming to town.
TexasJew on June 12, 2008 at 9:56 PM
I bet if Rudy was the nominee he would be roasting the Democrats on energy policy:
“What is more important, a few Arctic Lichens and lemmings or being able to afford to drive a car to your job. Don’t support the creeps who support the Terrorists. Drill for oil here and create American jobs!”
“$7 dollar gasoline will bring on the Pelosi Depression!”
“What do you mean you are going to turn the entire American Corn crop into ethanol and raise food prices through the roof. You really intend to turn the US into an importer of corn just so we can eat?!Fogitaboudit Get Out of Town”
OK Rudy wasn’t always nice. Well, sometimes you need to say something in a way that gets attention and he did.
Rudy for Vice President name him now and let him be the pit bull all summer that McCain won’t be.
KW64 on June 12, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Come the fall, and that will be a major campaign issue. Hard to sell heating oil, when it is 100 degrees outside (yeah I know snow in Montana).
right2bright on June 12, 2008 at 6:37 PM
diogenes on June 12, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Terrye on June 12, 2008 at 4:13 PM
If we didn’t have another 12 million people in this country using oil than the supply issue wouldn’t be as big a problem. poor mexicians in mexico do not use oil like illegal immigrants in america do.
If we also didn’t export all the jobs over to china and increase their wealth they wouldn’t be using all the oil either. the free trade outsourcing of the American companies have made 3 billion people more wealthy and have wetted their taste for oil.
All this would have been ok if we would have thought about the ramifications of the NEW WORLD ORDEr before we decided it was a great idea to enrich other countries at the expense of our own.
Now we are importing inflation and have higher energy and food prices due to globalization while at the same time our lower classes are finding it hard to get good paying jobs.
the trade policies, immigration policy and the democratic environmental wackos have combined over the last 30 years to get us to this point.
Soon we will be the ones riding bicycles while the chinesse drive the SUV’s. Our government sucks both rep and dems and something needs to be done about it soon before they destroy the country.
unseen on June 12, 2008 at 11:19 PM
just paid $530 for 120 gal. of fuel oil. . I’m thinking about the those unable to pay that or more come Winter. A real disaster in the making. Let the finger pointing begin.
diogenes on June 12, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Makes you wonder what is wrong with Vermont doesn’t it. they keep voting for the same people that keep there bills high. At least Kanasas as God, guns, and nationalism to explain their vote.
unseen on June 12, 2008 at 11:21 PM
My understanding is that shale-to-oil is about $60/bbl and coal-to-oil is about $40/bbl.
So if nobody is doing it, they don’t think oil prices will stay as high as $40/bbl.
Some companies started building coal-to-oil facilities in the 70s, then the bottom dropped out, and they abandoned their plans.
misterpeasea on June 12, 2008 at 6:29 PM
they are not doing it because the dems have made it illegal to do it on federal lands. got that. understand now. they are doing it fine in Canada. Oil will never fall back to $40 until production is increased
unseen on June 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM
The new GOP slogan should be:
To hell with the polar bear I want a job.
unseen on June 12, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Folks, McCain is a good example of how the typical Congressman has lost sight of the fact that he’s a public servant. Instead, he thinks he’s a ruler over his subjects. He should be looking for ways to improve the lives of his fellow citizens, instead of looking for ways to consolidate his authority. This entire governmental system is corrupt, and McCain is no exception.
fossten on June 12, 2008 at 11:33 PM
IIRC, they just made it impossible to get the oil shale going anywhere. Hopefully Glenn Beck or someone will have Orrin Hatch on again so people can be aware of what’s going on.
melda on June 13, 2008 at 12:05 AM
Do you know how copper wire was invented?
Hi. I’m on your side. I found this:
“For potentially recoverable oil shale resources, we roughly derive an upper bound of 1.1 trillion barrels of oil and a lower bound of about 500 billion barrels. For policy planning purposes, it is enough to know that any amount in this range is very high. For example, the midpoint in our estimate range, 800 billion barrels, is more than triple the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia…
[800 billion barrels would satisfy current US demand for 100 years.]
Shell anticipates that, in contrast to the cost estimates for mining and surface retorting, the petroleum products produced by their thermally conductive in-situ method will be competitive at crude oil prices in the mid-$20s per barrel…
Yet, buried in a Department of Interior appropriations bill passed in December 2007 was an amendment that prevented establishing regulations for leasing land to drill for oil shale. The House passed that amendment, proposed by Rep. Mark Udall of Colorado, on June 27, 2007, by a vote of 219-215.
On May 15, 2008 in a 15-14 vote, the Senate Appropriations Committee rejected an amendment by Sen. Wayne Allard (R-CO) to allow oil shale drilling and overturn the Udall moratorium.”
Things like this make me despise Democrats and anyone who votes for Democrats. But then, the Republican nominee probably agrees with the ban.
And here’s a 2006 article:
“breakeven for a coal-to-liquids plant in the US would be in the range $39-44 a barrel, assuming no tax incentives.
…the new Highway Act provides a subsidy of $21 a barrel for commercial-scale CTL projects…”
If this is still accurate, then it can only mean nobody thinks oil will remain above $39-44/bbl. Right?
misterpeasea on June 13, 2008 at 12:27 AM
You forget that I have 33 years of 10 VERY negative opinions to each one good opinion of him to overcome, whereas I only have 3 years of negative opinions against Obama; And with me it is partially personal about McCain, while it is merely political with Obama.
I’m trying, really; but McCain KEEPS throwing 10 bad things out for every one thing I like.
I could just swallow all the past down… the somewhat personal stuff… the Shamnesty… Even his greatest Legislative ‘accomplishment’, the Unconstitutional McCain-Feingold assault on the First Amendment… and pull the lever for him, if I wasn’t absolutely certain that he is going to pretty much destroy the entire nation with his economic stupidity and worshiping at the AlGorian Church of Global Warming.
I fear him more than Obama, because I KNOW his personality. ‘In his secret heart of hearts’ He doesn’t give a damn about what anyone thinks or what reality smacks him in the face with. That which made him rather heroic as a POW is what makes him more dangerous as a leader of this Republic than Obama, Pelosi , Reid and that whole bunch all rolled into one. Once he decides something, regardless of reality proving otherwise, it becomes as absolute fact for him. If the torturers and brainwashers at the Hanoi Hilton couldn’t change his mind, do you think that harshly worded emails are going to be effective in guiding him down the proper path???
Yes, I realize that Obama will be worse in every way, but America is going to have a complete smashup in the next two years regardless of which bozo gets elected… And I don’t want the Republicans to get the blame for it. We will never recover… as a nation, much less a political Party if the unwashed masses can blame it on even a ‘Maverick’ Republican.
We conservatives can pull the American ‘Phoenix’ out of the ashes of the Great Fire of 2009-2010 if it is obvious to even the victims of public education that the Dems are to blame for it all. Given the way things work, (and you know this already) the President gets the blame, even if it is the Legislature’s fault. And with McCain as President, the reality is that it will be as much his fault, if not more than the (likely) Democrat Congress.
Don’t worry about your husband… He will survive Obama being CinC… I survived Carter…. In fact, some of my ‘most funnest times’ in the military were during the Carter years… (Carter being kept mostly ignorant by my bosses of what was going on.)
LegendHasIt on June 13, 2008 at 1:12 AM
To those who posted about oil shale and cost per barrel…thanks. I had to go to work, and therefore couldn’t continue the discussion.
Shell’s in situ work is very interesting.
http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/aboutshell/shell_businesses/upstream/locations_projects/onshore/mahogany/mrp_technology.html
And, from the link above:
http://www-static.shell.com/static/usa/downloads/shell_for_businesses/exploration_production/icp_fact_sheet_final.pdf
tgharris on June 13, 2008 at 1:25 AM
You walked into the nomination like you were walking onto Vicente Fox’s yacht
Your smirk strategically dipped below one eye
Your neck looked like an apricot
You had one eye on the mirror as you watched yourself gavotte
And all the Rinos dreamed that theyd be your VP partner
Theyd be your VP partner, and…
Youre so McVain, you probably think the world revolves around you
Youre so McVain, Ill bet you think the world revolves around you
Dont you? dont you?
You had me supporting you several years ago when I was still quite naive
Well you said that the country you were ready to lead
And that you would never give any grief
But you gave away the things you claimed to loved and by doing that lost me
I had some dreams, they were foam in my beer
Foam in my beer, and…
I had some dreams they were foam in my beer
Foam in my beer, and…
Well I hear you went up to LaRaza and your ingratiating talk naturally all of them won
Then you flew in your wife’s private jet up to praise
Al Gores Global Warming total eclipse of reason and the sun
Well youre where you should be all the time
And when youre not youre with
Some money bags lobbyist or working on a bill with a close liberal friend
Working on a bill with a close liberal friend … …
MB4 on June 13, 2008 at 1:30 AM
Heh. Good one.
Although this line doesn’t roll off the tongue easily:
Maybe:
Al Gores total eclipse of reason .
With reason being pronounced reZUnn
or maybe
Algores total ‘ignrnce’ of the Sun.
Sorry for kibbitzing… I just want to memorize it and sing it to my friends, and that line actually hurt to try to say. ;-)
LegendHasIt on June 13, 2008 at 2:10 AM
I can go with that.
The Democrats’ climate-change bill collapsed last week under the weight of brutal cost realities. It was a wake-up call. This is the year Americans joined the real world of energy costs. Now someone needs to explain to them why we - and we alone - are sitting on an ocean of energy but won’t drill for it.
You’d think the “national security” nominee, John McCain, would get this. He’s clueless - a don’t-drill zombie. We may mark this down as the year the U.S. tired of being a serious country.
- Daniel Henninger
MB4 on June 13, 2008 at 2:30 AM
Patrick Neid. Good to see you’re posting here. Hope you can keep it up!!!
Swabbie
SwabJockey on June 13, 2008 at 5:22 AM
Here is a good new article on how Gore engineered the GloBULL warming meme…..
Yeah, most of us here already knew it, but this article lays it out very succinctly.:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=1F5A5AE1-03EC-4716-8D33-A7C134B79B33
LegendHasIt on June 13, 2008 at 5:30 AM
Well said.
Redhead Infidel on June 13, 2008 at 7:37 AM
Has anyone signed this petition at American Solutions? Drill Here. Drill Now.
As LHI so astutely pointed out above, McCain is hardly the type to let the People’s Will sway his obstinate position (vanity or idiocy - take your pick). A petition is perhaps a little too reasonable for who we’re dealing with, but considering We the People obviously have very little representation on this, it’s worth the 10 seconds of your time.
Redhead Infidel on June 13, 2008 at 7:45 AM
That oil in ANWR is not John McCain’s oil, but belongs to all of us, since it is supposedly held in trust for the American people.
The way to look at it is to say: STOP STEALING OUR OIL!
As Henninger said in the WSJ: McCain’s a clueless, no-drill zombie.
You all go vote for this senile jerk-off; I can’t.
TexasJew on June 13, 2008 at 7:50 AM
I’m with Rush on this one. How is a tax holiday going to add one more gallon to the gas inventory?
I know prices increase - that’s a fact of life. But we have the means to actually bring down the price of the nation’s life blood. I am so sick and tired of people like that rat Bill Oreilly, Obama and McCain talking about our addiction to oil. People, are you addicted to the blood that flows through your body? No, it is necessary for life. Oil is necessary for the life of the Republic. To say we’re addicted to oil is saying we could drain our bodily blood and go to rehab and still live. But with McCain and Obama not wanting to drill, and idiots like Obey saying we can’t drill ourselves out of this problem, we are SO screwed.
abcurtis on June 13, 2008 at 7:53 AM
Shale oil, Shale oil,Shale oil, Shale oil, Shale oil, Shale oil,Shale oil, Shale oil……
along with hydrogen cars….
Inzax on June 13, 2008 at 8:01 AM
John McCain is an idiot.
jake-the-goose on June 13, 2008 at 8:14 AM
Absolutely stupid to bitch about oil prices and ethanol at the same time. Despite only being allowed by law to constitute up to 10% of a gallon of blended gas, economists say the US domestic ethanol industry has held down the price of a barrel of oil here between 14% and 20%
It is a DOMESTIC ENERGY SUPPLY, and we desperately need more of those to tip the scales of demand and supply.
Caustic Conservative on June 13, 2008 at 8:43 AM
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