Breaking: Supreme Court says Gitmo detainees must have access to US courts Update: Scalia: “The Nation will live to regret what the Court has done today.”

posted at 10:45 am on June 12, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

In a 5-4 decision, the Supreme Court ruled today that the unlawful combatants held at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba must have access to American courts to challenge their detention. The ruling eliminates three attempts by the Bush administration and Congress to establish military tribunals that would handle the adjudication of terrorist cases without involving access to the civilian justice system:

The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that foreign terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay have rights under the Constitution to challenge their detention in U.S. civilian courts.

The justices handed the Bush administration its third setback at the high court since 2004 over its treatment of prisoners who are being held indefinitely and without charges at the U.S. naval base in Cuba. The vote was 5-4, with the court’s liberal justices in the majority.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the court, said, “The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times.” …

In dissent, Chief Justice John Roberts criticized his colleagues for striking down what he called “the most generous set of procedural protections ever afforded aliens detained by this country as enemy combatants.”

Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas also dissented.

This will probably derail the hearings that had just begun at Gitmo for six members of the 9/11 conspiracy. By granting the unlawful combatants habeas corpus, the court has now eliminated the main reason for the military tribunal system — and for that matter, Gitmo itself. If the detainees can access American courts, they may as well be held on American soil.

The previous two rulings that struck down the tribunals forced the government to quickly pass laws that allowed for them. The Supreme Court has basically ruled that the Constitution applies worldwide rather than just to the US and its residents, which makes it pretty difficult to go back to the well a third time. Also, with very little time remaining in the Bush administration, they will not have enough time to push through a third attempt to address the Court’s concerns — and this ruling appears to be much broader than the two that preceded this one.

It seems absurd to apply criminal law to unlawful combatants captured during hostilities abroad. Will they require a Miranda reading, too? Do we have to bring the soldiers and Marines who captured them to the trial? In our 232-year history, when have we ever allowed that kind of access to enemy combatants not captured inside the US itself?

Update: Bear in mind that we do not yet have the full opinion, and it may be less egregious than what we have heard thus far. However, the quote from Kennedy certainly suggests an expansive ruling.

Squid Shark says in the comments that the work-around would be to classify them as POWs and be done with it. That presents a few problems, too. It eliminates the status of unlawful combatant, which then encourages all forces to eschew uniforms, legitimate state backing, etc etc. The unlawful-combatant designation and its circumscribed rights in Geneva intended to penalize those who hide among civilians for their attacks. Are we now to forego that?

Update II: The opinion can be read here. From a cursory reading, the Court says that Congress cannot act to suspend habeas corpus except through the Suspension Clause, which requires an explicit act noting invasion or rebellion. Would infiltration suffice, or does Congress even need that much reason to invoke the Suspension Clause?

Scalia’s dissent is especially scathing:

Today the Court warps our Constitution in a way that goes beyond the narrow issue of the reach of the Suspension Clause, invoking judicially brainstormed separation-of-powers principles to establish a manipulable “functional” test for the extraterritorial reach of habeas corpus (and, no doubt, for the extraterritorial reach of other Constitutional protections as well). It blatantly misdescribes [sic] important precedents, most conspicuously Justice Jackson’s opinion for the Court in Johnson v. Eisentrager. It breaks a chain of precedent as old as the common law that prohibits judicial inquiry into detentions of aliens abroad absent statutory authorization. And, most tragically, it sets our military commanders the impossible task of proving to a civilian court, under whatever standards this Court devises in the future, that evidence supports the confinement of each and every enemy prisoner.

The Nation will live to regret what the Court has done today. I dissent.

Update III: I’ve read through both dissents, and I have to say that I’m struck by the tone of Scalia and Roberts.  Not only do they dissent, they practically accuse the majority of deliberately misreading both law and precedent, especially regarding Eisentrager.  They point out that the dissent in that case explicitly noted that the decision gave aliens in detention by American forces outside of our own sovereign territory no habeas rights at all, and yet the majority used it to apply those rights in this case.  Roberts scornfully argues that the Court “cashiered” the military tribunal system before it had a chance to show that it addressed detainee rights properly.

I’d say that the end of this session couldn’t come quickly enough for these justices.

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McCain is the enemy.
flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:37 PM

Disagree with him on some things? Yes I do.

But think he is my enemy? what?

Comments like this scare me as much as Obama becoming President.

tottoritodd on June 12, 2008 at 12:42 PM

So does this mean that terrorists now have the right to an abortion?

PaisleyCow on June 12, 2008 at 12:42 PM

What a disaster for AMERICAN JUSTICE!!! The same benefits as CITIZENS??? These people wanted to kill US!!! Where do we get these LAME BRAINS we put on our HIGHEST COURT??? If these NUTS were on the court in WWII, we would all be speaking GERMAN or JAPANESE now. I say let them all go now, save the time and trouble… As soon as they come BACK and KILL a bunch of us, maybe it is the WAKE UP CALL we need!!!

pueblo1032 on June 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

And talkers like Rush, Tammy and Laura Ingraham call Obama an egomaniac.

Sick.

BTW…right there with you Funky…all sore loser pussies.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

Seriously, chill. These people you mention are talk radio host. They are paid to have egos. That’s the business.

Besides, why are you equating the ego of an entertainment figure in society to that of a person who wants to assume leadership of our country?

geckomon on June 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

understand this sentiment but at the same time bemoan the fact that every politician, regardless of their political bent, meekly accepts each and every SC ruling as law. The President has the constitutional obligation to simply ignore this ruling in order to send a clear message that the SC is only one branch, not the ruler of all three.

NotCoach on June 12, 2008 at 12:39 PM

The American people can admend the US constitution. Every branch has to follow those laws even the Supreme Court.

IF you cant get the people in power to behave the way you want the Founding Fathers gave us the power to go over their heads.

William Amos on June 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

No, you are the enemy.

wise_man

How am I the enemy? I can tick off a long list of issues on which McCain is in agreement with the Dems, this story being only the latest example. Why is he not the enemy? What would he have to do to become the enemy, in your eyes? Is there anything he could do, short of formally joining the Democratic Party? Try to answer the question.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

JiangxiDad on June 12, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Also, I suppose the military would have something to say in that scenario. At least that’s what happens in other countries when such civilian issues arise.

JiangxiDad on June 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

I beleive that’s essentially a political issue, not a factual or technical one. In theory, I believe it’s quite easy.

JiangxiDad on June 12, 2008 at 12:39 PM

Impeachment should always be regarded as a political tool or else the SC would start dictating under what conditions impeachment can be used. But that does not mean it can not be viewed as a legitimate tool when circumstances warrant. The President needs to ignore this ruling and members of congress need to grow some balls and start asserting their constitutional authority as well.

NotCoach on June 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

McCain is the enemy.
flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:37 PM

must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.
John Adams
US diplomat & politician (1735 – 1826)

spend more time studying politics, its a team sport and McCain while not perfect is not the enemy. The Dem party and liberals are, McCain has just pandered to them to make himself popular with moderates and put himself in a position to actually win.

jp on June 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

I blame Reagan for being so craptastic at judge picking.

malan89 on June 12, 2008 at 12:41 PM

Reagan put Bork up and the Left went nuts. Bork got bounced and we got stuck with Kennedy.

This is all fat Teddy’s fault

William Amos on June 12, 2008 at 12:46 PM

At least, his stands on the major issues of the day are identical to those of the Democrats.

How could you say that with a straight face? Are you even thinking? Do you consider the war in Iraq a major issue? How about taxes or health care are those “major” issues? Abortion, gay marriage, government waste, judges and I could go on. On just these McCain is definitely different then democrats.

Complete7 on June 12, 2008 at 12:46 PM

“Seriously, chill. These people you mention are talk radio host. They are paid to have egos. That’s the business.”

Those talkers have lots of influence…why do you think the dams want the fairness doc.

They’re like a bitchy nagging girlfriend…can’t tell you what to do so they’re throwing a hissy fit.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 12:46 PM

members of congress need to grow some balls and start asserting their constitutional authority as well.

NotCoach on June 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

I suspect they are clinking champagne glasses.

JiangxiDad on June 12, 2008 at 12:47 PM

Disagree with him on some things? Yes I do.

But think he is my enemy? what?

Comments like this scare me as much as Obama becoming President.

tottoritodd on June 12, 2008 at 12:42 PM

Tell me about it.

newton on June 12, 2008 at 12:47 PM

Stupid enough it appears.

Have fun forting up. It is the tried and true tactic for losing a war.

Limerick on June 12, 2008 at 12:42 PM

damn straight

tottoritodd on June 12, 2008 at 12:47 PM

The American people can admend the US constitution. Every branch has to follow those laws even the Supreme Court.

If the Supreme Court will not follow the Constitution as currently written, what makes you think that they would follow it as amended? The reality is that if there were enough Americans willing to pass amendments to correct the Court, the Court would not be making these rulings to begin with. They only do that which is possible for them to do.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:47 PM

Disagree with him on some things? Yes I do.

But think he is my enemy? what?

Comments like this scare me as much as Obama becoming President.

tottoritodd

You disagee with Obama on some things, and you think he is your enemy. Why does your disagreement with McCain not cause you to regard him as your enemy also?

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:49 PM

I used to listen to Rush. Alot. Not too much anymore. He makes me sick. He can help keep a Republican in office. He won’t. He’s not a team player anymore. My kids are gonna get Obama because of sore losers like him and crybabies like 95% of posters here.

Thanks

5-4. and it will never change. BTW… the future unborn thanks you too.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 12:28 PM

LtE126, there is so many things wrong with your short statement its hard to figure out where to begin. You say, Rush is not a team player because he has a chance to help elect a Republican but won’t. So if Adolf Hitler was the Republican candidate for POTUS and Rush didn’t support him would that make Rush not a team player? Before someone goes bazerk and claims I just compared McCain to Hitler, I’m not. I’m making the point that Rush’s (and my) team is not “Republicans”. The team is nothing more then a series of beliefs. A way of looking at the world. If a Republican candidate does not see the world the same way and does not stand with Rush (and I) on the issues that matter to us than he is not “on our team”.

Secondly, I’d prefer it if you took a second to learn WHY some posters here cannot bring themselves to support McCain. Sure, I know you just rolled your eyes. You cannot fathom a senario where it is justifiable to be a Republican and not support McCain. But what if I live in a solid blue state that will not be going red within my lifetime? What does my vote mean? If I vote for McCain, McCain will lose the state 987608790970-3. If I don’t vote for McCain, McCain will lose this state 9876978977809-2. Oh my God! Can you imagine the impact my single vote will have? The shockwaves alone when I drop my envelope into the ballot box will destroy small villages. Get my point? My vote doesn’t matter so I’m sitting in the perfect postion to vote my principles consequence free. If I were in a swing state, a purple state, I’d be voting for McCain. But not here. Not now. He will get nothing from me and like it because that’s what he deserves.

And you really need to understand, with a crappy candidate it is inevitable for people to be compelled to stay home. Its really not complicated. Fill in the blanks with the words “high” or “low”:

If a candidate is crappy, turnout will be _____________
If a candidate is exciting, turnout will be ____________

INEVITABLE. It is a fact of life. Stop bitching about reality.

Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Don’t give up. We hae survived a civil war, two world wars, Jimmy “the peanut farmer” Carter, and if you want to dust off a history book a facist president named Wilson.

We only lose if we give up

tottoritodd on June 12, 2008 at 12:22 PM

Nope, never gonna give up. My direct ancestors were Mayflower arrivals (William Brewster) and this turn to socialism makes me physically ill. But not gonna give up.

stenwin77 on June 12, 2008 at 12:50 PM

So does this mean that terrorists now have the right to an abortion?

PaisleyCow on June 12, 2008 at 12:42 PM

I think they can even vote for Obama now.

Rod on June 12, 2008 at 12:50 PM

If the Supreme Court will not follow the Constitution as currently written, what makes you think that they would follow it as amended?

It’s a long war. Victory will take decades. Confronting the liberals on the court is important.

JiangxiDad on June 12, 2008 at 12:50 PM

The American people can admend the US constitution. Every branch has to follow those laws even the Supreme Court.

IF you cant get the people in power to behave the way you want the Founding Fathers gave us the power to go over their heads.

William Amos on June 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

But where does it start? Sometimes courage has to start from the top and this is one instance in which the POTUS can show great wisdom and courage by simply ignoring this ruling. Challenge the status quo and make a strong argument why he has the constitutional authority and obligation to ignore this unconstitutional ruling.

NotCoach on June 12, 2008 at 12:51 PM

I think they can even vote for Obama now.

Rod on June 12, 2008 at 12:50 PM

Yeah like they werent going to do this before this ruling

William Amos on June 12, 2008 at 12:51 PM

Yeah LtE, nothing screams courage like continually voting for phony conservative candidates in the hopes that one day they might get it right. All the courage of an abused wife that stays with her husband “for the children”.

Maybe you and funky have not voted much, but I am tired of it. Don’t you get it? Republicans are now Democrat Lites, and you voting for another liberal RINO only enforces the RNC’s belief that this is the direction the country wants to go. So in 2012 the RNC will put up an even more left leaning candidate and you fools will be whining the same childish mantra, “Yeah, but he is NOT as liberal as the other guy”. And the cycle goes on, and on, and on…

Its time to rip off the band-aid…

ClassicCon on June 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM

Eh, going to buy stuff to send to the sandbox…just got my husband’s list of requests.

And I’ll repeat that the worst thing about this decision is that it will take the focus off of the domestic oil production progress the good GOP congressmen and women were making, in proving that it was the democrats (and pretty much only democrats, in party line votes) who were blocking it.

Hey, maybe it will have a cumulative effect, and both issues will help get more conservatives elected to congress.

But that can ONLY happen if our supposed “conservative media leaders” quit spending all their time bitching about McCain.

I don’t think Limbaugh is enough of a man to do it. I hope he proves me wrong.

funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM

But where does it start? Sometimes courage has to start from the top and this is one instance in which the POTUS can show great wisdom and courage by simply ignoring this ruling. Challenge the status quo and make a strong argument why he has the constitutional authority and obligation to ignore this unconstitutional ruling.

NotCoach on June 12, 2008 at 12:51 PM

It always starts with elections. These will be the most important election in our lifetime.

We better start to get our act together it can only get worse.

William Amos on June 12, 2008 at 12:54 PM

How could you say that with a straight face? Are you even thinking? Do you consider the war in Iraq a major issue? How about taxes or health care are those “major” issues? Abortion, gay marriage, government waste, judges and I could go on. On just these McCain is definitely different then democrats.

Have you bothered to read the story we’re commenting on?

Do you know that McCain supports the Courts position?

McCain sucks on the GWOT. How about taxes? Do you know the price tag on McCains global warming plans?

I swear, the typical McCain supporter is supporting a figment of their imagination. The actual McCain has no resemblence to the one in your heads.

Remind me, what has McCain ever done on abortion or gay marriage? Other than to oppose laws to prevent them?

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM

So not voting for McCain equates to giving up? Like that is our only option? Hahah…what courage. With members like that now I see how the RNC and its people became the douchebags I see today.

ClassicCon on June 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Then go ahead tough guy…be a man and really put up a protest and vote for Obama.

You won’t.

McCain=Hitler? Even you saying it as a gross example says you need to get back to KOS.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Hmmmm. comment moderation?

Anyway, this could pay off if our conservative media voices put this decision together with the democrat obstruction of domestic oil production, and use it to push hard for conservative congressmen/women to be elected.

BUT that would require them to quit bitching about McCain so much….and I don’t think they can do it. Their personal burning hatred for John McCain is what they will continue to focus on, to the detriment of their credibility, and to the detriment of the country if their listeners take their words to heart.

sad

Sit home and surrender to the democrats in ’08!

Going shopping for the husband’s sandbox improvement package. See you all later.

funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 12:57 PM

anybody else having comments disappear?

funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 12:58 PM

Look if you dont like McCain fine here is what you do. Vote for him as President so we dont get stuck with Obama BUT

Also elect a conservative Congress that will fight with McCain on things we agree with him on and AGAINST those things we disagree with him on.

Send McCain to the White House with conservative chains on him.

William Amos on June 12, 2008 at 12:58 PM

…so now its better NOT to be a citizen?

* Free health care
* Unrestricted access to welfare & social services
* No need to pay taxes
* No problem with major crimes like murder & rape
* “Catch and Release” treatment of drug crimes: no incarceration.
* Taxpayer-funded discounts on college tuition
* Free legal help

The inmates have taken over the asylum!

landlines on June 12, 2008 at 12:58 PM

“All the courage of an abused wife that stays with her husband “for the children”.”
ClassicCon on June 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM

Great another right wing drama queen

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

So not voting for McCain equates to giving up? Like that is our only option? Hahah…what courage. With members like that now I see how the RNC and its people became the douchebags I see today.
ClassicCon on June 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Yes. it is giving up. Because the results of not participating in the US electoral system is that the people who do, will be the people who will win.

If more people participate in voting for Obama, and fewer people participate in voting for his opponent, therefore being counted – you know, on election night, the count the votes, and the winner of each state gets the electoral college vote from that state? You’ve heard of this before?

Then the result of inaction in preventing Obama will be an Obama victory.

Oh, and by the way, “ClassicCon“, or ‘classic conservative’ …. why is it that on this site, there are so many people with “conservative” after their names, are advocating not voting for mcCain, and the end result will be an Obama victory.

Makes. You. Wonder.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

hmmmmm

all I said was that if we can get people to connect democrat oil production obstruction with liberal ideas of “justice” for terrorists it could help win congressional elections for conservatives.

but we can’t waste time bashing our presidential nominee if winning conservative congressional seats is our goal.

funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

Buchananites and Paulbots

funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM

spend more time studying politics, its a team sport and McCain while not perfect is not the enemy. The Dem party and liberals are, McCain has just pandered to them to make himself popular with moderates and put himself in a position to actually win.

I cannot believe that anyone would actually have the audacity to claim that McCain is embarking on some brilliant plan to trick liberals and moderates into supporting him, so that he can then enact his secretly conservative agenda.

Actually, you did not say that. You simply said he would put himself in a position to win. So he’s embracing liberalism with no promise of conservative rewards in the future.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM

If this opinion is correct, enemy combatants all over the world are afforded U.S. Constitutional rights, such as the right to bear arms. The End.

jaime on June 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM

I bet if McCain loses, the RNC will like, listen to the conservatives next time – if there is a next time.

TIME FOR A NEW COUNTRY.

stenwin77 on June 12, 2008 at 1:02 PM

How am I the enemy? I can tick off a long list of issues on which McCain is in agreement with the Dems, this story being only the latest example. Why is he not the enemy? What would he have to do to become the enemy, in your eyes? Is there anything he could do, short of formally joining the Democratic Party? Try to answer the question.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

I have never said Obama is my enemy. I have said he scares me. Why? He belongs to a racist black power church for 20 years and claims its head is his spiritual mentor. He launched his career at Ayers house, a terrorist and a facist. He won’t discuss his views on Black Liberation theology, says they are a distraction. Is he my enemy? no.

But McCain as my enemy is even more absurd. A man whose family for generations has risked their lives defending my freedoms (even now through his son serving in Iraq, who he won’t use as a political tool)is frankly disgusting.

Are all democrats your enemy? If so then what are you really suggesting?

Because my enemies are Islamic fundamentalists and a few others. I know what I would do to them if I had the chance.

Enemy implies something very strong and should rarely be applied to Americans.

tottoritodd on June 12, 2008 at 1:04 PM

If more people participate in voting for Obama, and fewer people participate in voting for his opponent, therefore being counted – you know, on election night, the count the votes, and the winner of each state gets the electoral college vote from that state? You’ve heard of this before?

For a self described “wise man”, you seem to be a complete and utter fool. Obama does not have “an opponent”. He has “opponents”. Opposition to McCain equals support for Obama only in your own ignorant world.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:04 PM

F this. You crybabies make me sick. I gotta go adjust the clutch on my bike.

Funky, wise…have fun with the Paulnuts here.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:04 PM

Time for some more states to suceed from the Union ? Hey lets divide and let the Blue states have their courts and we keep the military and send all the gitmo detainees to the blue states.

Within 3 months they’d come crawling back saying how wrong they were.

William Amos on June 12, 2008 at 1:05 PM

TIME FOR A NEW COUNTRY.

stenwin77 on June 12, 2008 at 1:02 PM

I always heard “the South is going to rise again”. You like Florida beaches?

faraway on June 12, 2008 at 1:05 PM

How am I the enemy?
flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:44 PM

Our (political) enemy is the democrats. They claim that they want change and will govern for all Americans but the truth is that when they are in power, they will shut out all republicans and conservatives. They have done this time and again. Democrats advocate a democrat political victory for themselves on election day.

You could be a misguided conservative who hasn’t figured out that if you don’t vote for McCain, the republican nominee and the solid winner of the republican primary by the majority of all republican voters, then the candidate with the more votes on november 2nd will be the winner.

I don’t want to see a democrat win. Democrats do. Some conservatives apparently do. Maybe some democrats who pose as conservatives and want to fracture the conservative and republican party from within do.

Whatever category it is that people fall into who’s desire is to see a democrat win this november is …. ‘the enemy.”

Politically.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:06 PM

Those talkers have lots of influence…why do you think the dams want the fairness doc.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 12:46 PM

So it’s Limbaugh’s fault the dems want to enact a fairness document? Dude, you are severely misplaced in logic.

geckomon on June 12, 2008 at 1:07 PM

Look if you dont like McCain fine here is what you do. Vote for him as President so we dont get stuck with Obama BUT

Also elect a conservative Congress that will fight with McCain on things we agree with him on and AGAINST those things we disagree with him on.
Send McCain to the White House with conservative chains on him.
William Amos on June 12, 2008 at 12:58 PM

Well said, William

Patrick S on June 12, 2008 at 1:07 PM

The empty glass crowd are morons……

I said it and will stick to it. My ancestors were Virginians, and North Carolinians. From there to Alabama and Texas. They marched under Old Glory and later under the Stars and Bars. What is being advocated in this thread is that the Stars and Bars will deliver you. Don’t expect me to ride with General Stuart. My family picked the wrong side once. It’s a lesson worth remembering. These tear-it-down-to-build-it-up people are more dangerous to America’s future then their boogeyman McCain will ever be.

Limerick on June 12, 2008 at 1:08 PM

off to shop for hubby’s care package, just got his list.

Surrender in ’08 to George Soros and the MSM

no gracias

funky chicken on June 12, 2008 at 1:08 PM

F this. You crybabies make me sick. I gotta go adjust the clutch on my bike.

Funky, wise…have fun with the Paulnuts here.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:04 PM

Great another right wing drama queen

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

4 minutes too soon?

geckomon on June 12, 2008 at 1:09 PM

F this. You crybabies make me sick. I gotta go adjust the clutch on my bike.
Funky, wise…have fun with the Paulnuts here.
LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:04 PM

If I had a bike i’d take it out for a ride as well.

I love this site. I don’t want to see it overrun with the types that we seem to have now. This is moving beyond a simple disagreement and into something quite different. Defeat. I don’t want to see this happening to my party, my beliefs and my country. If other conservatives want this, then so be it. If others are using deception to make it seem so, then I won’t be silent while they outnumber the other voices here and attempt to take this site over.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:10 PM

“So it’s Limbaugh’s fault the dems want to enact a fairness document?”

Yes it is brainsurgeon…most listened show in radio history. He got LOADS of clout they’ll never have.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:10 PM

Take no prisoners. Kill them on the battlefield and it’ll all be taken care of.

Spanglemaker on June 12, 2008 at 12:13 PM

Yep; by taking prisoners our soldiers not only risk having to waste their time testifying in court but also being charged themselves for violating the Constitutional rights of our enemies. Why take the chance? Take no prisoners.

FloatingRock on June 12, 2008 at 1:10 PM

But McCain as my enemy is even more absurd. A man whose family for generations has risked their lives defending my freedoms

McCain has never defended my freedoms. As a US Senator, he has worked hard to undermine them. My free speech rights are just one of the rights this enemy of liberty has tried to trample on.

Are all democrats your enemy? If so then what are you really suggesting?

I did not begin the “enemy” talk. That was the McCain supporters, describing lack of support for McCain as helping the enemy. If you bother to read the thread you will see multiple instances of this. I merely pointed out that if the Democrats are the enemy, then so is McCain.

I accept your apology in advance.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:11 PM

Unbelievable.

So the Geneva convention recognises these @sshats as terrorists but then we go one step further and shower pansies on them too?

Ginsberg and her ilk fall all over themselves trying to globalise the American justice system, but now they even one-upped it in their liberalism. God help us. All we can hope for is a clever appeal on some aspect of this taken to a more conservative court in a few years. By then, the damage will be done.

Why does this feel like the beginning of the end?

linlithgow on June 12, 2008 at 1:11 PM

NOW I have to go to Harley and get gaskets and an “O” ring.

Later Paulnuts.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:12 PM

Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 12:49 PM

Then go ahead tough guy…be a man and really put up a protest and vote for Obama.

You won’t.

McCain=Hitler? Even you saying it as a gross example says you need to get back to KOS.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Why would I vote for Obama? He is just as opposed to my beliefs as McCain is. That doesn’t make any sense.

And did you even hear me make fun of people like you who would claim I was comparing McCain to Hitler? Did you catch that little line in there?

Nice of you to address absolutely nothing of what I wrote though. Unsurprising at the same time considering you are, afterall, a McCain voter. You must be very used to glossing over details in order to arrive at a flawed pre-determined conclusion. Good for you.

Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 1:13 PM

I say put them on a ship for the States to stand trial. Then sink the ship halfway there. This ruling also gives great weight to the idea that we should take no prisoners alive. See a Jihadi–kill a Jihadi.

Guardian on June 12, 2008 at 1:14 PM

“So it’s Limbaugh’s fault the dems want to enact a fairness document?”

Yes it is brainsurgeon…most listened show in radio history. He got LOADS of clout they’ll never have.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:10 PM

NOW I have to go to Harley and get gaskets and an “O” ring.

Later Paulnuts.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:12 PM

I take it you don’t wear a helmet.

geckomon on June 12, 2008 at 1:14 PM

“So it’s Limbaugh’s fault the dems want to enact a fairness document?”

Yes it is brainsurgeon…most listened show in radio history. He got LOADS of clout they’ll never have.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:10 PM

You should listen, maybe you can learn a little about conservatisim and principles.

Big Orange on June 12, 2008 at 1:14 PM

Who’s voting for McCain now huh?

No no, not us real conservatives we have PRINCIPLES, and our principles trump the long term security of this nation, Supreme Court judges be damned!

apollyonbob on June 12, 2008 at 1:14 PM

This is moving beyond a simple disagreement and into something quite different. Defeat.

I’d like to think that defeat for liberals and liberalism is something we can all get behind, but clearly that’s not the case.

There are two different sorts of people here, conservatives and Republicans. Usually, in the past, their interests have been the same. But when the Republican party runs a liberal for POTUS, the divergence in interests comes to the fore.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

“I take it you don’t wear a helmet.

geckomon on June 12, 2008 at 1:14 PM”

Helmet? Eeeewwww! “geckomon” te ghey.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:17 PM

Remind me, what has McCain ever done on abortion or gay marriage? Other than to oppose laws to prevent them?

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Well would you count voting for judges like Alito and Roberts. Which is probably the only thing you can do to have a real impact. And you have claimed incessantly that McCain is the same as the democrats yet you just admitted that he opposed laws that democrats support.

And how could you say that McCain “sucks” on the GWOT, when he has helped us succeed on the central battle field in the GWOT, Iraq. Al Qaeda is pretty much defeated in Iraq, because of McCain’s strong support of the surge and no one can deny that.

Complete7 on June 12, 2008 at 1:17 PM

I’d like to think that defeat for liberals and liberalism is something we can all get behind, but clearly that’s not the case.
flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM

By not voting for McCain, and the inevitable Obama win that is a direct result from everyone doing this … how, exactly – in your definition is “liberalism defeated?”

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:20 PM

I love this site. I don’t want to see it overrun with the types that we seem to have now. This is moving beyond a simple disagreement and into something quite different. Defeat. I don’t want to see this happening to my party, my beliefs and my country. If other conservatives want this, then so be it. If others are using deception to make it seem so, then I won’t be silent while they outnumber the other voices here and attempt to take this site over.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:10 PM

yeah god forbid we have dissenting opinions here. I mean, what has the world come to when not every single solitary Hotair commenter is willing to fall in line and mindlessly support an embarrassment of a Republican nominee for POTUS. Wise_man, McCain is a liberal. There is no reason for me to support that man. I’m not alone. Many conservatives out there feel just as I do.

The irony of your complaint, too, is “the boss” of this site, Michelle Malkin, feels the same way I do about McCain. So perhaps its you and the rest of the mindless Republican supporting lemmings I should be complaining about?

Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 1:20 PM

McCain will put a conservative on the bench who is more likely to see the light faster than anyone BHO puts on.

indythinker on June 12, 2008 at 1:20 PM

I guess we’re just going to have another 9/11. Maybe then people will realize this is a war.

indythinker on June 12, 2008 at 1:21 PM

McCain has never defended my freedoms. As a US Senator, he has worked hard to undermine them. My free speech rights are just one of the rights this enemy of liberty has tried to trample on.

So what was he doing flying that plane above vietnam? Or while he was being tortured? For that matter what are all my freinds doing in Iraq now? What did my grandpa do in WWII? Probably just doing it for sh@#s and giggles right?

McCain Feingold was awful, I agree, but tell me what you haven’t been able to say. You wanna see losing freedom of speech? Look at Canada with it’s “Human Rights Courts”. I think thats what Obama represents.

I didn’t start the enemies talk either. But once it started I didn’t revel in in either.

Have some perspective and mutual respect. It’s what generations of us have fought for, that’s all I’m saying.

tottoritodd on June 12, 2008 at 1:21 PM

I knew that the dittoheads and MDSers would turn this into an anti-McCain circus and would grossly mischaracterize the position of all of us who support closing GTMO as being in line with this decision.

Squid Shark on June 12, 2008 at 1:22 PM

yeah god forbid we have dissenting opinions here.
Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 1:20 PM

You obviously didn’t read what I said.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:22 PM

Scalia: “The Nation will live to regret what the Court has done today.”

There may be some, or even many, maybe another 3,000 perhaps, who will not live to regret it.

MB4 on June 12, 2008 at 1:22 PM

No no, not us real conservatives we have PRINCIPLES, and our principles trump the long term security of this nation, Supreme Court judges be damned!

apollyonbob

You stupid, stupid moron. The “bad justices” on the Supreme Court, the ones you are afraid of, are the same ones who agree with McCain.

Who actually believes that McCain will fight his good friends acorss the aisle in order to get justices on the Court who disagree with him? This is hardly the first case where the opinion of John McCain has been identical to that of the liberal bloc on the Court.

The “security of this nation” has been jepordized by this ruling, and this whole series of rulings. And John McCain agrees with these rulings. Stop trying to tell me that a vote for McCain is a vote for American security. It’s too obviously not true.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:23 PM

Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 1:20 PM

Oh now your being persecuted…

geez

Squid Shark on June 12, 2008 at 1:23 PM

You stupid, stupid moron. The “bad justices” on the Supreme Court, the ones you are afraid of, are the same ones who agree with McCain.
flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:23 PM

And yet another lie.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:23 PM

The “bad justices” on the Supreme Court, the ones you are afraid of, are the same ones who agree with McCain

A lie, a lie and you know it.

Squid Shark on June 12, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Ohh a Harley, does your leather still look brand new? Imagine that LtE is a tough guy biker pouser. I bet you even trailer the thing to Sturgis.

ClassicCon on June 12, 2008 at 1:24 PM

I knew that the dittoheads and MDSers would turn this into an anti-McCain circus and would grossly mischaracterize the position of all of us who support closing GTMO as being in line with this decision.

Squid Shark

Fine. Then let me invite the peckerheads and RINO’s to go ahead and explain why you support closing Gitmo.

Go ahead, if you can.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:25 PM

Squid Shark on June 12, 2008 at 1:22 PM

I don’t agree with the closing, but totally agree with the first part.

With ‘TCs’ defining themselves in this election, and probably forming a third party, I don’t expect a Dem to lose the Oval Office for the next 50 years or so. Then it won’t matter about their third party because there won’t be a country to ‘set straight’.

Limerick on June 12, 2008 at 1:25 PM

“I take it you don’t wear a helmet.

geckomon on June 12, 2008 at 1:14 PM”

Helmet? Eeeewwww! “geckomon” te ghey.

LtE126 on June 12, 2008 at 1:17 PM

Wow, you use 15 year old girl and internet poindexter lingo in the same sentence. No wonder your support McCain. First election huh?

ClassicCon on June 12, 2008 at 1:26 PM

By not voting for McCain, and the inevitable Obama win that is a direct result from everyone doing this … how, exactly – in your definition is “liberalism defeated?”

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:20 PM

wise_man, you must have missed the memo. McCain doesn’t care about conservatives. He has already accepted the FACT that a large percentage of conservatives will be staying home this election. He is in full pursuit of moderate Dems and indepenants now. Don’t expect him to do anything remotely conservative from now until he loses on election day.

Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 1:27 PM

I am sitting here misty eyed as I think of my Dad, rest his soul in his beloved Wyoming…A survivor (WWII)of the largest single loss to the Allies, HMS Rhona, transporting troops across the Mediterranean….A German aerial torpedo did the deed..He was a Patriot and hero in the mold of Bob Dole and a simple “workin’ man”….He was a Democrat when it was an Honorable calling…The Greatest Generation, they were called, correctly so…God was his protection from the ghastly threat of WWII where millions died and NOBODY lied…. Death now protects him from the ghastly threat called democrat liberalism and the effects of their ideology such as this Supreme Court decision regarding enemies of America…My God, what has happened to the land my father fought to protect and save for me..and us..and all Americans, emphasis on Americans, NOT foreign enemies…What have we done? What are we doing, still? Our military does its job, every time they are called upon..In fact, we are invincible from the outside…the Armed Forces make it so in spite of leftward hatred…We rot internally..We know it..the world knows it..Mars knows it…Thank God my Dad does not!! I love you, Pop…and I am so sorry…

b4lucy on June 12, 2008 at 1:27 PM

McCain’s comment on the ruling from FirstRead:

On the Guantanamo ruling, McCain said he hasn’t read the opinion yet, but said the ruling “obviously concerns me.”

“We should pay attention to Justice Roberts,” McCain said, adding, “It is a decision the Supreme Court has made and now we need to move forward.”

Complete7 on June 12, 2008 at 1:27 PM

No you are wrong b4lucy. Every will be FINE if we just vote for McCain or whoever that guy is that is running against that devil Obama. Seriously…everything is PERFECT.

ClassicCon on June 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM

The irony of your complaint, too, is “the boss” of this site, Michelle Malkin, feels the same way I do about McCain.
Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 1:20 PM

You can make any claim you want. I’ll wait for Michelle Malkin to make a comment on this page and tell all of us that she is in complete agreement with Zetterson in regards to McCain.

I have read many of her postings and comments. She has stated in the past that she intends to vote for McCain and wear nose plugs.

I have not heard any followup that she is going to abstain from voting. Or write in another candidate.

So, maybe you could state to us your complete position on McCain, including at least 12 bullet points that back up your claims.. and then get the boss here to tell me that she is in complete agreement with you.

Please.

I am looking forward to this.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM

Look back 66 years to when we captured 8 German saboteurs (illegal combatants) dropped off from Nazi subs on Long Island and the Florida coast.

Under today’s decision they could require disclosure of evidence leading to their arrest. This would have meant disclosure of our nations most sensitive and easily lost intelligence. In this case our crypto efforts would have to be compromised to even hold them. No nation would ever consider this, but it will be mandatory now in the US.

Fortunately a military court convicted all and executed 6 within 6 months. This couldn’t happen today.

Corky Boyd on June 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM

McCain supported closing Guantanamo, which would have made this ruling even easier, if they had been on our soil. I think that’s what flesner and others are saying, and they are right.

linlithgow on June 12, 2008 at 1:29 PM

A lie, a lie and you know it.

Squid Shark

Then you should have no problem exposing my “lie”. Why are you not doing that? It’s almost like the facts are not on your side.

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:29 PM

The Nation will live to regret what the Court has done today. I dissent.

Don’t sugar coat it, go fornicate with yourselves SCOTUS. If I wound a terrorist on the battle field who has been shooting at me, instead of sending him to GITMO to receive special meals, religious rights, extra care, and a lawyer, etc., I will just slowly start cutting off his head to extract as much information as possible, wrap him in a pig’s skin, burn him alive, then move on to the next one.

Happy now?

Seven Percent Solution on June 12, 2008 at 1:30 PM

This is moving beyond a simple disagreement and into something quite different. Defeat. I don’t want to see this happening to my party, my beliefs and my country.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:10 PM

In the practical art of politics Republicans need to be ready to win over conservative voters at any time in the future. In the impractical art of politics they should have been doing this quite some time ago and it is probably already too late. They’re screwed.
- Sun Tzu’s Nephew

MB4 on June 12, 2008 at 1:31 PM

McCain’s comment on the ruling from FirstRead:

Can I call them, or what?

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:32 PM

Comments are being deleted…

ClassicCon on June 12, 2008 at 1:32 PM

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:25 PM

Because they need to be charged with something, then executed, further imprisoned, or set free. Some were caught on the battlefield, but some where not. Some were turned in for bounty, they need to be vetted and charged.

The whole reason they are in GTMO is to keep them out of the court of world opinion. Brining them to the U.S. does not give them rights. Now the Supreme Court has gotten involved and given them even MORE rights. Partly because we acted like a little kid who just hit his sister, trying to rationalise borderline activity.

Squid Shark on June 12, 2008 at 1:33 PM

But McCain as my enemy is even more absurd. A man whose family for generations has risked their lives defending my freedoms (even now through his son serving in Iraq, who he won’t use as a political tool)is frankly disgusting.

Enemy is far too strong a word but he certainly isn’t a “friend” on about 95% of the issues. Unlike you, I refuse to give him a complete pass on open borders, Constitutional rights abridgement, and the rest of his moonbat liberalism just because he was a POW. He’s been suitably recognized for his service 40 years ago but he was also out there screaming I was a racist last year because i didn’t buy into his no-questions-asked amnesty scheme.

It’s far more likely that an opponent will be out there calling me a racist than a friend. I’m extremely tepid in my support of McCain because there is not one reason anybody can give to vote for McCain other than the fact he isn’t Obama. I want something more from the candidates than picking the least offensive liberal running for office.

We’re going to be stuck with amnesty, gay marriage, and the entire raft of the Democrat legislative agenda no matter who wins in November. I, for one, am not going to delude myself that voting for McCain is voting for a friend that respects my views and values because he doesn’t. Again, enemy is too strong a word but there sure as hell isn’t a friend on the ballot either!

highhopes on June 12, 2008 at 1:34 PM

I have read many of her postings and comments. She has stated in the past that she intends to vote for McCain and wear nose plugs.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM

Will Michelle be wearing the nose plugs on the inside or outside of the bio-hazard suit that she will be wearing at the time? Has she said? Does anybody know?

MB4 on June 12, 2008 at 1:34 PM

You obviously didn’t read what I said.

wise_man on June 12, 2008 at 1:22 PM

Oh I read it. I had to stick with reality though. Winning and losing the presidential election is not impacted by our disagreements on this site. Therefore that aspect of your statement was not worth discussing. I simply chose to address your following complaints:

I don’t want to see it overrun with the types that we seem to have now…I won’t be silent while they outnumber the other voices here and attempt to take this site over.

And, for the record, I’m not engageing in deception in order to make my arguments. I will not deviate from facts as I know them.

Zetterson on June 12, 2008 at 1:35 PM

With ‘TCs’ defining themselves in this election, and probably forming a third party, I don’t expect a Dem to lose the Oval Office for the next 50 years or so.

That does not have to happen. You non-conservatives (NC’s) could always join us, if your terror if the Democrats is as great as you keep saying. Then the Republican party would have the Oval Office for the next fifty years.

Or is embracing conservatism too high a price for you to pay?

flenser on June 12, 2008 at 1:36 PM

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