Obama’s Panama?
posted at 9:15 am on June 10, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Was Barack Obama born in Hawaii or somewhere else, or did he just change a name? Jim Geraghty looks at rumors running around about Obama’s supposed secrecy on his birth, and runs down three scenarios of what the campaign may want to hide. Their refusal to produce a birth certificate has stoked some of the speculation:
Having done some Obama-rumor debunking that got praise from Daily Kos (a sign of the apocalypse, no doubt), perhaps the Obama campaign could return the favor and help debunk a bunch of others with a simple step: Could they release a copy of his birth certificate?
Reporters have asked for it and been denied, and the state of Hawaii does not make such records public.
The campaign cited the birth certificate in their “Fact Check” on William Ayers, so presumably, someone in the campaign has access to it.
Jim runs down three possible issues, finding them “unlikely” but still compelling:
- Obama was not born in the US, but in Kenya.
- Obama’s middle name was Mohammed, not Hussein (but then why change it to another Arabic name?)
- His real first name is “Barry”.
I guess having seen McCain run through the MSM wringer over his birth at a naval base in Panama, these questions should be more compelling to me than they are. Having debated the nature of McCain’s citizenship, Obama should produce his birth certificate to make it all even, redacting any information that could be useful for identity theft (although it won’t have a Social Security number on it as those were not automatically assigned in 1961). The campaign references his birth certificate as a strange defense of his association with William Ayers, so it should make the record public.
However, does anyone really believe any of these potential scenarios? As Jim points out himself, the first two almost instantly get tossed out due to statements by friends and family going back years. Presumably, the schools that Obama attended in Hawaii and later in the US would have seen his birth certificate during the enrollment process, and no one has ever implied that Obama was anything less than a natural-born citizen. If someone wanted to change their middle name from Mohammed to keep political options open, Hussein would not be the name that replaces it.
That applies to the third scenario as well, and changing a first name from Barry to Barack in order to match one’s father would mean nothing in terms of the political standing of the candidate. I’m reminded that Gary Hart changed his last name from Hartpence to Hart, and that turned into nothing more than a nine-day wonder when it came out in the 1984 campaign. Barry to Barack seems even less noteworthy.
I’d say this sounds like a distraction, but then again, I thought the entire McCain-Panama was a distraction as well, and the Senate wound up having to vote on his status as a citizen to quiet the media. Only the first scenario has any relation to Obama’s status as a candidate, and the release of his birth certificate will put an end to the distractions.
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Obama’s birth name might be Vladimir Lenin Dunham for all we know.
faraway on June 10, 2008 at 11:10 AM
I am sorry but this is not correct. The law in 1790 established that stated that children born of US citizens outside the US are natural-born citizens and the law of 1795 replaced the law of 1790 but did not change the citizenship of children born to US citizens outside the US.
NotCoach on June 10, 2008 at 11:10 AM
Thanks. PA 1973 here with no religion. Based on the other responses it seems to have died out in the ’70s?
12thman on June 10, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Yeah, I would guess so. I was so surprised to see it there. But they do routinely ask in hospitals about religion– last rites and all. Perhaps it’s connected to that.
JiangxiDad on June 10, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Not trying to be a pain here, but while the law says:
I find it hard to believe that any judge today, liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat, would say that a young girl who had a baby at 18 while being a US citizen her whole life would not pass that citizenship to her child.
Color me stupid but unless something else comes up here, this is going nowhere. I’m breaking out the popcorn nonetheless. It’s gonna be a fun summer.
Grantman on June 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Um, no. It might be a big deal, IF there’s anything weird on his birth certificate. Maybe there’s nothing weird on it and he and his campaign staff are idiots. They won’t release his medical records, they won’t release his birth certificate. Or maybe there’s something a little something, like religion listed as Muslim that the campaign would rather not deal with.
Jumping the gun and screaming about a media cover up now seems premature.
MamaAJ on June 10, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Of all of your plausible scenarios, I think you’re leaving out the most probable reason for not releasing a birth certificate – 4. Hawaii did not become a state until 1959, a short two years before BHO was created by the hand of God. It is possible that he’s added two years to his birth year and was actually born PRIOR to Hawaii becoming a state, making him not a natural born citizen.
charlestperry on June 10, 2008 at 11:20 AM
Amazing that one can run for president and keep their birth certificate hidden. No better way to get hunted than act like you have something to hide.
I’m guessing his birth name is “Death To America II”.
Hening on June 10, 2008 at 11:20 AM
The rumors about his birth certificate do not tweak me at all. What got me wondering was WHY would his campaign refuse to release the Birth Certificate. What piece of information would be on it Dali Obama and his campaign would not want known? Could it be Barry’s or his Father or Mothers religion at his birth? That would something they may not want in the publics mind. hmmmmmmmm
ordi on June 10, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Just as a thought experiment, how anti-climactic would it have been if it was found Sen Obama wasn’t naturally born. All the energy and drive that has happened with his campaign, whether real or imagined, would all be for nothing. What a blow that would be.
Or… just to keep the Hillary issue alive, is this why she hasn’t endorsed Obama? Will it, indeed, turn out that he is fundamentally unqualified to be president simply because he isn’t naturally born — making Hillary the automatic nominee of the party? Or… say in the happenstance that she becomes VP and then a President Obama has to step down because he was born somewhere else, making Hillary the President.
Rove, you magnificent Bastard!
Weebork on June 10, 2008 at 11:21 AM
’60s certificate: Colorado… No religion is noted.
Oddly enough, however, is the entry “mother attendant at delivery.” It is checked “yes.” lol
wccawa on June 10, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Is this Hillary’s ace up the sleeve?
Is this why she merely suspended her campaign, and didn’t release her delegates to Obama?
If Obama isn’t eligible, according to the Constitution, then who will finally say, “Enough. He cannot run”?
ToddonCapeCod on June 10, 2008 at 11:23 AM
I just looked at my birth certificate…. from 1959… California,
One key block that no one has mentioned, RACE OF FATHER.
By some accounts, Dad was listed as Arabic by the Kenyan Government… if his birth certificate says Arabic, instead of Black, then Bambi could have serious political, and legal, problems if any of his college was attained with affirmative action.
Romeo13 on June 10, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Snort. Beat that drum all you like ericdonero. Please do let everybody know that you are supporting Bob Barr for president while you do it though. I don’t want the GOP tarred with such foolishness.
funky chicken on June 10, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Barry HOPE and CHANGE routine is also getting as risible as SEINFELD’s “These pretzels are making me thirsty!” schtick.
profitsbeard on June 10, 2008 at 11:24 AM
That answers the questions about my kid!
I agree about the dead-end-street on this regarding Obama.
His mom’s citizenship is going to trump all other arguments. Going after this angle will only result in another charge of rotten-Republican-dirty-trick.
Limerick on June 10, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Or… maybe it will be uncovered that Obama was born of virgin birth. It would fit in with the whole Messiah thing.
Let the angelic music begin!
Weebork on June 10, 2008 at 11:25 AM
I would leap and sing if they were both to be prohibited from becoming POTUS.
Sadly, McCain’s citizenship birthright seems kosher, so he’s in the clear.
I’ll settle for dumping Obama on his feculent head though……
LimeyGeek on June 10, 2008 at 11:26 AM
A business associate of mine was born in the ’60s in Hawaii… she’s trying to get someone to check her birth certificate now.
If I had to guess, I would say 4- Religion, is the issue.
Not only do I think that is highly unlikely but it isn’t any different (as far as the problem) than #1.
12thman on June 10, 2008 at 11:27 AM
feculent… I learned a new word today!
Thanks Limey!
Weebork on June 10, 2008 at 11:28 AM
His mother is a MAN, baby!
mikeyboss on June 10, 2008 at 11:36 AM
If any baby is born in the United States, that baby is automatically a US citizen.
American babies that have one parent from another country might get citizenship in that country. They might also get dual-citizenship if certain requirements are met. Different countries have different rules about dual-citizenship.
The Constitution has different language. It limits the office of the President to “natural born” citizens. This has always been interpreted to mean that the office is limited to persons born in the United States (or in one of the 13 colonies, like George Washington was born in the colonies).
As military families are stationed overseas, are serving their country, and have no control over where they live, when their children are born on military bases or Navy ships or in US sovereign territory like the Panama Canal Zone (pre-Jimmy Carter) then those children are considered “natural born” citizens.
If a child is born in the District of Columbia, that child is a “natural born” citizen.
If a child is born in, for example, Austria, and then becomes a US citizen, that person, for example, Arnold Schwarzenegger, is not a natural born citizen and thus does not qualify for the presidency.
John McCain, born in the Panama Canal Zone, is a natural born citizen
Hillary Clinton, born in Illinois, is a natural born citizen
Arnold Schwarzenegger, born in Austria, is a naturalized citzen (not natural born)
A child born in Hawaii is a natural born US citizen
A child born in Kenya is not a natural born US citizen
indythinker on June 10, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Nonsense. The U.S. annexed Hawaii in 1898 and made it a territory in 1900. Unless you think Obama is older than that, he’d still have as strong a claim for natural born citizenzhip by birthplace as Barry Goldwater did. Besides, Obama’s mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth, so he could have been born anywhere and still be a natural born citizen.
Move along, people. There’s nothing to see here.
Xrlq on June 10, 2008 at 11:43 AM
We must give them some time to forge something.
benrand on June 10, 2008 at 11:43 AM
there is another possible that I don’t think has surfaced:
Name of Father: what if it doesn’t say Barrack Obama?
the drill sgt on June 10, 2008 at 11:46 AM
My take, his birth certificate says he’s “white.” There goes his historical moment.
However (but hardly relevant at all) since the MSM wants to put
his racehis skin color, on a pedestal, I wonder when he began to identify himself in relation to race. Specifically as an “african-american?” I’m guessing when he moved to Chicago.geckomon on June 10, 2008 at 11:50 AM
Worst-case scenario for Obama:
Birth Certificate
Barry Mohammed Obama
born: August 4, 1958 (before Hawaii became a state)
religion: Muslim
race: Arab
indythinker on June 10, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Not true it seems. The mother has age/residency rqm’ts to be able to pass on the US citizenship to a child born in another country.
Apparently, Obama’s mother didn’t meet this rqm’t.
JiangxiDad on June 10, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Maybe his mom was really into brown sugar, baby
This is getting silly…..
LimeyGeek on June 10, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Isn’t there a stipulation that anyone born in what would eventually become a state is retroactively a natural-born citizen?
I have no idea if there’s anything to this or not, but forking the birth certificate over to the authorities would remove all doubts. Just do it, Obama!
Connie on June 10, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Lotsa red meat here.
wccawa on June 10, 2008 at 11:58 AM
The man and his posse are incredibly dim when it comes to issues like this. Instead of facing head on problems they know will blow up in their faces eventually they wait until the actual explosion has occurred before doing anything. If he dealt with TUCC last year instead of last month his political life would be much healthier. It’s like they hide in a closet wishing things will pass on all on their own.
NotCoach on June 10, 2008 at 12:02 PM
His posse is clearly not in effect
LimeyGeek on June 10, 2008 at 12:04 PM
We will never see it and no one in the MSM will ask for it. You are all racists.
tommylotto on June 10, 2008 at 12:05 PM
Word.
mikeyboss on June 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM
This is a dangerous distraction that the media could easily turn into a reverse National Guard story.
He doesn’t need the help.
MadisonConservative on June 10, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Apparently so. Thanks for letting me know.
LimeyGeek on June 10, 2008 at 12:10 PM
If his birth certificate is in GIF format, I’ll be suspicious ;-)
LimeyGeek on June 10, 2008 at 12:11 PM
There are some further things to think about dealing with dual citizenship… and why this could become an issue.
According to Kenya’s law, he can be a dual citizen right up until he reaches the age of majority, and then unless he goes to Kenya and affirms his citizenship he looses it…
Question, anyone seen divorce papers from Barry’s Father?
Apparently she then married an Indonesian, and went to live in Indonesia for almost 5 years.
Question, what passport did Barry travel under? US? Kenyan? or Indonesian?
This becomes very important as under Indonesian law, IF, he was adopted and took Step dad’s name, which he apparently did, then he could be a citizen of Indonesia.
Now, the way dual AMERICAN citizenship seems to work, if you are a dual citizen, but use PAPERS other than from the US, you are tacticly stating you are a citizen of that country. You then have to give Affirmation once you reach 18 that you are a US citizen.
If that never happened, then Barry is NOT a US Citizen, if he used either a Kenyan Passport, or an Indonesian Passport.
You must be a US citizen to be President. This is the question that must be answered, and why I think Hillary suspended her campaign…. she knows, and hopes the Right will dig out this dirt for her.
Romeo13 on June 10, 2008 at 12:11 PM
If true, Hillary will earn a snappy Machiavellian salute from me
LimeyGeek on June 10, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Paging the Hawaii Department of Health!
wccawa on June 10, 2008 at 12:23 PM
yep
funky chicken on June 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Why would you presume that, Ed, if illegal aliens are not required to produce documentation in order to attend school since 1961?
maverick muse on June 10, 2008 at 12:32 PM
would the hospital he was born at not have a copy? Is it not public record?
jp on June 10, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Wow, you think she’s that subtle? Interesting theory.
MamaAJ on June 10, 2008 at 12:35 PM
If he was indeed born in Kenya he is OUT!!!!!!!! No wonder Hillary just suspended her campaign and not end it.eally But then again….rules do not apply to the idiot dems.
Winebabe on June 10, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Hawaii, like Michigan (where I live) and maybe some other states, do not allow birth certificates to be released to the general public. Any copies have to be requested by Obama or someone else he gives legal authority to.
NotCoach on June 10, 2008 at 12:37 PM
If Obama is an illegal immigrant originally, the far right conspiracy theories will hit from every angle and then some.
jp on June 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM
LimeyGeek
Bahahahahaha
Then subsequently released with photos “from the birth” showing 3 sage old men bearing gifts who had traveled a long distance to pay homage to Him.
moxie_neanderthal on June 10, 2008 at 12:40 PM
As per BHO’s name being different today than at birth, his dad may have given him a lot of names, Mohammed being in the string somewhere.
European Christians were given multiple names at birth to include lots of patron saints. Dig up Mozart’s full name for example.
But whether Obama was born IN THE USA does matter as per meeting the letter of the law of POTUS requirements. Neither of Obama’s parents were in the military, so don’t extend to Obama a priviledge he does not deserve. McCain was born of two American citizens on proper USA territory sealing that legality through the military base in Panama.
I don’t want to hear that legalities don’t matter any more. Next you’ll have the Terminator Arnold for president. It isn’t right to promote the idea that “ANYONE CAN BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES” if they don’t meet the requirements, NOMINATION OR NOT!
maverick muse on June 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM
There is an obvious point here some are missing. If Obama does have a birth certificate from Hawaii he is not likely to have been born any where else. Naturalized citizens are not issued birth certificates.
NotCoach on June 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM
since when do they give out Birth Certificates to Aliens anyway???
I bet his SSN is 666-66-6666
jp on June 10, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Interesting…
It seems the Constitution is silent on whether you can be a DUAL citizen and be President…
Guess they never thought about that one, as you couldn’t be a dual citizen back then… wonder how the Supreme Court would see that one…
Because if Obama, used either an Indonesian, or Kenyan, passport after his 18th birthday, then he has legal problems.
Romeo13 on June 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Actually, if you have a birth certificate from another country, you can get a “certificate of birth record”, an English language document issued by a state government which satisfies for school admissions and so forth, but states the country of birth, date, etc. It is specifically not used as proof of citizenship, but in many respects is considered a “birth certificate”– at least that’s how it works in NY.
JiangxiDad on June 10, 2008 at 1:01 PM
BS flag thrown.
I was born under the exact same conditions as Obama: Kenyan father, young American mother. I am a retired Air Force NCO and have held security clearances, which are only granted to US citizens.
I have never gone through a naturalization process.
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Not quite accurate. Certain security clearances are only granted to US citizens…the lower ones are available to foreign nationals working for the US government.
James on June 10, 2008 at 1:15 PM
I’ll send Ed some info on what my father says about this.
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 1:16 PM
I was a military linguist. I’ll let you figure things out from there.
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 1:17 PM
benrand got it right – if someone had found a birth cert with something wrong, that would be interesting.
But by now, if they didn’t have one, falsifying one would have been trivial. Refusing to release it is just silly, but expecting anything devastating on it when it is released is also silly.
If someone has access to an original, perhaps, but I doubt that. This could be another “Michelle video.”
Merovign on June 10, 2008 at 1:18 PM
Yeah, and I used host nation translators to prepare classified support agreements. I’ve got it figured out already…you can’t say that all security clearances are given only to US citizens.
James on June 10, 2008 at 1:24 PM
It is not too much to ask that Obama produce his birth certificate. The Constitution specifies only three qualifications for office: natural born citizen; 35 years old; and residing here for at least 14 years. The birth certificate is directly relevant–arguably the best evidence–on the first two of those three legal qualifications.
My guess is, he is a natural born citizen; but there is obviously something embarrassing to him or his family on the certificate that he’d rather not disclose. Too bad! He should have thought about that a little more before tossing his hat into the ring.
james23 on June 10, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Cool… did you ever travel outside the US as a child? and if so, on a US or Kenyan Passport?
From trying to read between the lines of various conflicting US laws, it really looks like they make that an important distinction.
Interesting that neither Indonesia nor Kenya allow dual citizenship…
Anyone know if Obama was adopted by his indonesian father? (as he did take his name?).
Romeo13 on June 10, 2008 at 1:27 PM
To add to the above, I’m only saying that the existence of a security clearance is not ironclad proof of citizenship. As you say, you may be in the exact same situation as Obama…then again, there may be something else that nobody’s thought of yet that makes the difference between your citizenship and his potential noncitizenship.
James on June 10, 2008 at 1:32 PM
That’s not correct.
According to political figures prominent at the time the 14th Amendment was ratified, there are some key exclusions:
See article and citations here.
I think Heritage, CIS (or other groups), should file a class action against the US government and state governments for falsely granting citizenship to persons not eligible. There is definitely court precedent in the late 19th century that supports the above interpretation. It’s really clear that people whose parents are foreigners are deemed to have no real allegiance to America, and isn’t that part of what we perceive the problem is? People here illegally using benefits meant for legitimate citizens, illegal workers going back to their native country and enjoying Social Security and Medicare benefits?
linlithgow on June 10, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Not to pile on, but Good God, what a mess!
On February 2, 1961, Obama Sr. married a fellow student, Ann Dunham in Maui, Hawaii. She did not know that he already had a wife in Kenya. Their son, Barack Obama, Jr., was born on August 4, 1961. Two years later, Obama Sr. was accepted at Harvard for graduate study. He moved to Massachusetts, unable to afford to take his wife and son with him. He and Dunham divorced in 1963, divorce filed in Honolulu, Hawaii in January 1964, and he only saw his son again once, at age 10. He received the AM degree from Harvard in 1965.
At Harvard, he met an American-born teacher named Ruth Nidesand who would follow him to Kenya when he returned after completing a graduate Ph. D. degree. She eventually became his third wife. She and Obama Sr. had two children together before they divorced.
(From Wikipedia)
wccawa on June 10, 2008 at 1:39 PM
While you may be correct in a traditional reading of the 14th Amendment it does not say explicitly what that quote says. So in fact indythinker is correct when we apply current law regardless of how you feel the 14th Amendment should be applied. I am all for changing the rules myself, but current law does grant automatic citizenship to ANY person born in the US.
NotCoach on June 10, 2008 at 1:39 PM
James on June 10, 2008 at 1:32 PM
My husband worked for TI for a while and had to get a security clearance to do so (it was DoD work, terrain following radar… neat stuff). Friends and bosses of his had to get Top Secret and special clearances from different branches of the government in order to work on THEIR projects.
Obama NEVER would have passed muster. For higher level clearances if your girlfriend is not a citizen, you are encouraged to dump her. They interview people you know; they tell you to inform your family and friends that someone will be coming around to ask them questions about you, so they shouldn’t be alarmed when it happens. They can hook you up to a lie detector and ask you anything they want.
If you had ties to radials like Dohrn and Ayers, there is absolutely NO WAY you would EVER get a high level clearance.
I don’t understand why someone who couldn’t pass basic muster for clearance would be eligible to be president. That would mean that technically, as long as you’re not a felon, if you’re a card carrying member of the Socialist party and you could get the votes, you could be President. Real disconnect there, I think.
linlithgow on June 10, 2008 at 1:40 PM
I did not travel outside of the US as a child but did several times as an adult under the auspices of the USAF. Had both a Mil ID and a US Passport.
BTW, I’m looking at my birth certificate right now. I was born in one of the lower 48 in 1961. No race or religion of parents, but it’s not the original. IIRC, my original one said that both of my parents are “Negro” but does not list religion. Mom’s POB lists state, Pop’s lists country. Both of their ages are listed.
Oh and my first name and my surname are misspelled, but my patronymic–what we Americans call a last name–is spelled correctly.
Hmmm.
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 1:41 PM
Oh, yes, and I did not have to become naturalized to get the SC which most assuredly is given only to American citizens nor to acquire a US passport.
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 1:43 PM
As I have mentioned before, the only reason I was able to get the that I had was SC was because my parents divorced when I was very young and I had no contact with my father again until I was 35. (Long story, like Obama’s but without the polygamy.)
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 1:47 PM
the only reason I was able to get the that I had was SC =
the only reason I was able to get the level of SC that I had
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 1:48 PM
NotCoach on June 10, 2008 at 1:39 PM
Well, the qualifier is ’subject to the jurisdiction thereof’. It’s like with the 2nd Amendment; some people want to interpret it as a collective right as opposed to an individual one, which is what it says. The verbiage used 150 years ago is not what we use today, and I think it is important to note that they did add the above line, instead of leaving it as:
I see your point, but I think you can make the argument that the current application is an interpretation and is not the spirit with which the 14th was written. Contemporaneous writers of the Amendment should have the final say. In the DC handgun case, the judgment relied on not only previous case law, but on accepted traditions and writings about the subject at the time the Constitution was drafted. The decision importantly pointed out that militias assembled in Revolutionary War times assumed members had their own weapons.
linlithgow on June 10, 2008 at 1:49 PM
I don’t disagree with you but in today’s legal world if Obama were faced with a not so clear understanding of whether or not he’s a citizen he most likely would win the legal fight. I am an originalist myself, but can not ignore the fact that abortion has been raised to a constitutional right no matter how wrong our legal system is about such an interpretation. The same thinking applies to citizenship and it is what we are currently bound by.
NotCoach on June 10, 2008 at 1:56 PM
Been there, done that…not gonna say what level clearance, though, but let’s just say I know how thorough the investigations can be.
Interestingly enough (to me, anyway) I’m in the same category as McCain…born overseas to 2 US citizen parents, location courtesy of the DoD. The only difference is that my mom got some bad info from Immigration and had me naturalized when we returned to the States, so technically, I hold a dual citizenship…US and US.
James on June 10, 2008 at 2:00 PM
You are both qualified and disqualified from being President. That could be a convenient excuse to get out of trouble if you were elected…
NotCoach on June 10, 2008 at 2:03 PM
I debated on making that distinction and decided against it. You can probably figure out why that it also.
If you would like proof of the particulars of my service, an appropriately-sanitized DD Form 214 is available upon your polite request in my email box.
baldilocks-at-sbcglobal-dot-net
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM
That’s OK…unless you’re running for public office, your DD-214 is between you and…you. I’m sure not going to bandy mine about when I get mine. As I said, I don’t doubt your story, just that one distinction.
James on June 10, 2008 at 2:10 PM
Wow, this dual citizen thing is pretty screwed up…
You can vote in other countries elections, and here.
You can serve in other militarys.
You can live there, and vote here.
In some cases you can choose which countries taxes to pay.
You can SWEAR allegiance to another country, and it does not affect you US citizenship.
You can hold public Office in another country, and it does not affect your US citizenship…
Wow… just wow, never knew how bad it was till I looked at it.
Looks like the ONLY way to loose your US citizenship is to go to a US embassy and sign a paper renouncing your citizenship.
This REALLY sheds new light for me on McCain trying to give amnesty to all those illegals, as they will be able to vote HERE AND THERE.
I got a really bad feeling about this…
Romeo13 on June 10, 2008 at 2:14 PM
That statement doesn’t make sense. And, no, my DD Form 214 is not between “me and me,” else there’d be no need for the hardcopy proof in the first place. Try get VA benefits or veteran’s plates without one.
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 2:14 PM
JustTruth101, ericdondero and Romeo13 are closest to the source of this whiff.
Romeo13, you are right about why Hillary only “suspended”, and I said it wasn’t over, and listed this point, but you are wrong on the media. They have known this for at least a few months and some are diligently at work to resolve it, from both sides of the isle, incredibly.
It came fully to their attention during Passportgate. Please make a huge note of this – that’s where the kernel lies, to be sprouted.
To preempt this, the Obama team, via the guy in charge of the contractors involved in Passportgate, went into the records at the State Department. The boss, the guy in charge, is also an advisor to Obama. They wanted to retrieve the records so as to never have to risk them seeing the light.
However, the three who did the dirty work were caught. The chief had no idea that the department had a backup and corss-check system in place, which caught them.
If you recall, two were fired immediately, and the third, who’s cooperating with the investigation, was retained by the State Dapartment until the investigation is over.
If you also recall, when Passportgate first broke, Obama yelled the ‘loudest’ on how carless the Bush Admin. is with the records. Please recall that by breaking into the dossiers they wanted to retrieve Obamas, but got a hold also of Hillary’s and Mr. Cheney’s, I believe (I’m sure about Obama and Hillary, but there was a 3rd one, and I think it was Mr. Cheney’s).
Anyway, it was a cover on the part of Obama to yell so loud, becaues the break-in was done by his side. Immediately as they were trapped, Condoleezza Rice put the kabash on it, the lid on it, and after that complete SILENCE.
Then there was the faux McCain citizenship rah, rah, and recall the no other than Obama expressed support for it first, and then co-authored the totally unnecessary bill in the Senate to “make McCain” legitimate. This was all huwey.
What the media, and us, need to vigorously pursue is the results of Passportgate, number one, not only getting a copy of the birthcertificate, but what the findings are of the breakin.
Also, there’s more to this story regarding a bunch of trips that Obama’s mother undertook from Hawaii to the Philippines when he was little, and why. It also has something to do with birth, citizenship, clarification of the entire record.
Hillary is wainting in the wings. Get ready for Hillary/McCain. Don’t think for a second that the media and Hillary didn’t know this, and please don’t accept that the conservatives are doing dirty work here. It was all started by the Obama camp to retrieve whatever it is that they are covering up.
Entelechy on June 10, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Sure it does…I don’t doubt the things you say you’ve done in your military career, but I did have to point out the distinction that allows foreign nationals to have security clearances.
As far as I’m concerned, it is…I don’t work for the VA or the DMV, so I have no need to see it.
James on June 10, 2008 at 2:23 PM
It is extremely surprising that Passportgate was silenced in no time flat, and then completely left alone, so far.
Entelechy on June 10, 2008 at 2:27 PM
Interesting point. I doubt that they went in to delete the records, so much as see what they were… what evidence there was. Barry, not even being born, or very young, for some of his Mom’s actions may not know the truth himself…
If there are records that the narrative he created in his books are wrong, it goes to credibility. There are a lot of potential landmines here…
Hey, anyone have access to the Federal Employment verication network? If Barry’s in it it may shed light on his citizenship status…
Romeo13 on June 10, 2008 at 2:30 PM
E,
I’m more inclined to pay attention to what you have to say because–unlike some people, including me–you’ve proven that you aren’t likely to go off half-cocked. You deal with provable fact and reasonable conclusion(s) from those facts.
In my blog post from which I sent a trackback here, I surmised that this issue could be due to the incredibly stupid rumors that Obama’s tribe–and my tribe–is Arabic in origin. Your guesstimate regarding the passport mini-scandal seems more plausible.
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Maybe this is Beckel’s “big shoe”?
LimeyGeek on June 10, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Romeo13, at no point did I mean to imply that they wanted to steal the records. I don’t know what they wanted to do with them. However, the fact is that they broke into them to review and know what exactly they contain.
baldilocks, I didn’t dream this up. It’s just the beginning.
LimeyGeek, I have no idea on what Beckel knows, but he’s very close to the Clintons, and they know what the State Dept. has. They were there and State is full of all kinds of allegiances, to this day. I wouldn’t be surprised if even C. Rice would keep Passportgate closed until after the election. However, the media and the blogs need to demand otherwise.
Entelechy on June 10, 2008 at 2:39 PM
James, dude, I think that communication is not happening between you and me. What I meant by “debating the distinction” was debating mentioning the distinction. I decided not to in order to avoid mentioning what kind of SC I had–most certainly unmentionable. But since you keep mentioning that the distinction exists, I have to explain why I avoided mentioning that existence for credibility’s sake…my own.
That’s not the impression that your words gave
however, that may still be part of the miscommunication. It seemed as though you were questioning whether I was really telling the truth. If you were not, then, no harm, no foul.
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Every citizen with a fairly active life has had to whip out their birth certificate within the past 5 years. Why would a guy running for president of the US refuse to release his? Even if there is nothing wrong with it (and I’m betting he’s got some kind of problem), who the hell does he think he is refusing to do what everyone of us has to do at some point. When I do jobs that area COD I cash the check before I deliver the report. A bank I went into recently to cash a check from one of their own customers refused to cash the check unless I gave them my SS# and insisted that it was a new federal law. So barry is bigger then us all? He gets away with this and gets to be president he will think he can do anything he wants.
peacenprosperity on June 10, 2008 at 2:48 PM
The questions are:
Why did those 3 contractors break into the dossiers at the State Department, on behalf of Obama, in what is now Passportgate?
What were they looking for?
What was the Obama camp trying to preempt or hide?
What did they want to know for sure?
Where did he travel with that passport?
And, when?
And, for what purpose?
Why did he yell the loudest about Passportgate, when they were his runners doing the deed?
Why did he personally get so invested in the McCain citizenship nonissue, including co-signing the faux bill?
If you recall even Hillary ‘crowed’ at the time of Passportgate, but just a tiny bit, because her records were also looked at.
Entelechy on June 10, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Let us pretend that there is truth to all this speculation, and that Obama is truly ineligible for the presidency.
How fucking severely should he be punished for knowingly attempting to foist an unconstitutional coup upon us?
LimeyGeek on June 10, 2008 at 2:54 PM
Good question. I think it reaches the threshold of treason.
txsurveyor on June 10, 2008 at 3:01 PM
I do find it very strange that Obama would not release his birth certificate. Obviously something seems bad politically for them, otherwise they would have released it.
whiskey_199 on June 10, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Heh, LimeyGeek and txsurveyor, you’re right, but nothing would happen, other than Hillary would be the one and he’s just go back to the Senate, forever.
Now, if he’d be a conservative, different story.
Entelechy on June 10, 2008 at 3:03 PM
E, sadly, I’m afraid you’re right. Although, according to the 5-years-after-the-age-of-16 clause, it would be questionable whether he is a U.S. citizen at all (as opposed to a natural born citizen). If not, he could not continue to hold his senate seat.
txsurveyor on June 10, 2008 at 3:09 PM
That doesn’t fly. (See my response above to the last time you mentioned it.)
baldilocks on June 10, 2008 at 3:15 PM
Bleg: Surely there’s a HA or M/M reader out there that was born in HI in the 60’s and can tell us what info was collected on birth certificates at the time? That would focus (or limit) the speculation. I agree that BO’s refusal to release this info along with his refusal to release his passport/travel records stinks.
plum on June 10, 2008 at 3:19 PM
Up to this point, I have been speculating that Obama may have been born in Kenya which may be why they don’t want his birth certificate released. You say you were born under exactly the same circumstances as Obama, so were you born in Kenya to a mother who was under the age of 21 at the time of your birth?
txsurveyor on June 10, 2008 at 3:26 PM
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