Helping the Saudis go nuclear?

posted at 9:50 am on June 10, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

When Russia announced its intention to help a Muslim country run by extremists build a nuclear-power system, the US demanded an end to it, proclaiming it a danger to world peace. When the US does the same thing, is it not just as much of a threat? Rep. Edward Markey wants to know how the Bush administration splits that particular hair before we start helping Saudi Arabia split atoms:

Here’s a quick geopolitical quiz: What country is three times the size of Texas and has more than 300 days of blazing sun a year? What country has the world’s largest oil reserves resting below miles upon miles of sand? And what country is being given nuclear power, not solar, by President George W. Bush, even when the mere assumption of nuclear possession in its region has been known to provoke pre-emptive air strikes, even wars?

If you answered Saudi Arabia to all of these questions, you’re right.

Last month, while the American people were becoming the personal ATMs of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was in Saudi Arabia signing away an even more valuable gift: nuclear technology. In a ceremony little-noticed in this country, Ms. Rice volunteered the U.S. to assist Saudi Arabia in developing nuclear reactors, training nuclear engineers, and constructing nuclear infrastructure. While oil breaks records at $130 per barrel or more, the American consumer is footing the bill for Saudi Arabia’s nuclear ambitions.

Markey wonders why we haven’t pushed Saudi Arabia towards solar power instead, which weakens his argument enormously. We don’t use solar power in our own deserts to any significant degree, and for good reason — it’s not viable for long-term massive electrical production. Storage technology has not advanced enough to make solar power work, or else we’d be using it instead of coal.

However, he has a very good point about both the expense and the security of subsidizing Saudi Arabia’s nuclear-power venture. Even if the Saudis have the best of intentions, they have a big problem with radicals and extremists, some of whom have patrons in the royal family. This is a nation so extreme in its official application of Wahhabism that they let fifteen girls die in a fire rather than allow them to flee the school because they were not wearing appropriately Islamic clothing at the time. Women still cannot drive, let alone vote. Is this the kind of country to which we want to hand keys to nuclear power?

The Bush administration may have another argument for this program, and perhaps even two, considering the current state of the region.  The administration may believe that nothing can stop Iran from producing nuclear weapons, and wants to set up the Saudis as a regional counterweight.  If that’s the best argument they have for this, it’s a very dangerous one.  The likelihood of an overthrown Saudi royal family is not exactly remote, and if nuclear technology falls into the hands of a successor regime comprised of even more radical Wahhabists, we will have made the region twice as unstable as before.

Saudi Arabia could eventually achieve nuclear technology on its own, of course, and this may be the other Bush administration argument.  If the US controls the kind of nuclear power that the Saudis get, they can keep it from being transformed into weapons technology.  This makes some sense, especially since the Saudis have already declared their intention to seek “peaceful” nuclear power.  We could push them towards the kinds of reactors that don’t lend themselves to producing weapons-grade fissile material if we remain in control of the program, and we can keep a closer eye on it from the inside than we can from the outside.

It seems to me, though, that the best way to keep any of these countries from gaining nuclear weapons is to cut off their revenue streams.  If we started drilling for oil in the US and adopted the nuclear power that we want to give the Saudis, we could undercut the current pricing structure that makes these nations flush with cash.  Instead of relying on Middle Eastern resources, we could rely on our own, producing jobs and our own energy while the market crashes for OPEC.  That way, we don’t have to give nuclear power to Wahhabist extremists to use as a counterweight to Persian extremists.

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15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi and so were many of the finaceers. Between this and open borders Mr. Bush really should reread his Knesset speech to himself.

LevStrauss on June 10, 2008 at 9:58 AM

Bush can answer the questions. But McCain and Obama need to as well.

JiangxiDad on June 10, 2008 at 9:59 AM

It seems to me, though, that the best way to keep any of these countries from gaining nuclear weapons is to cut off their revenue streams.

Ya, that worked real well with Pakistan, Iran, India and one of the poorest nations on Earth, North Korea.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 9:59 AM

Excellent points. Now try to convince the American left. Let me know how that goes.

perroviejo on June 10, 2008 at 10:00 AM

It’ll be interesting to see how McCain responds to this.

a capella on June 10, 2008 at 10:00 AM

Sweet Lord… Of all the countries out there, Bush chooses Saudi Arabia? What about Dubai or Oman or something?

Saudi Arabia isn’t much closer to civilization than Iran, if at all.

Lehosh on June 10, 2008 at 10:07 AM

The deal is clearly to have a Sunni Arab counterweight to the Shiite Iranian threat with at least some control/insight over their program. The United States has been completely emasculated. No country can really count on us to come to their aide. Better they arm themselves and remove any doubt about the consequences of attacking them.

The Nuclear Genie isn’t even in the same country as his bottle any more. Any country that wants to go nuclear can do so pretty easily, especially one that isn’t being sanctioned by the West like Iran and North Korea. If they can develop them under the restrictions they have been under, anybody can.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 10:09 AM

In a ceremony little-noticed in this country, Ms. Rice volunteered the U.S. to assist Saudi Arabia in developing nuclear reactors, training nuclear engineers, and constructing nuclear infrastructure.

Un-friggin-believable.

At a time when we need to be developing nuclear reactors, training nuclear engineers, and constructing nuclear infrastructure, the Bush administration is offering assistance to the Saudi’s? The same Saudi’s who are involved in the systematic rape of America’s economy with skyrocketing oil prices? The same Saudi’s who secretly fund terrorist groups? The same Saudi’s who told Bush to take a hike last month he pleaded for more oil production and lower oil prices?

That’s like asking someone to kick you in the balls right after they punched you in the face.

fogw on June 10, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Heck, the Saudis could fly to Pakistan tomorrow and buy as many warheads as they wanted. Who do you think has been supporting Pakistan all these years? Who do you think builds and funds all the Madrases? They share the same Wahhabi tradition.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 10:12 AM

If we started drilling for oil in the US and adopted the nuclear power that we want to give the Saudis, we could undercut the current pricing structure that makes these nations flush with cash.

agreed and well said.

We don’t use solar power in our own deserts to any significant degree, and for good reason — it’s not viable for long-term massive electrical production.

We don’t use solar, but we are beginning to. It IS viable for long-term massive electrical as well. Duke Power has just recently begun construction on the largest solar power plant in the world near here. It is in response to legislation that requires a percentage of energy production to be renewable by the year 2020. Solar energy is a good solution for both us and the Saudis. If the government wanted to do meaningful legislation, they might consider requiring solar panels to be installed on new construction of homes over a certain size to alleviate the strain on the electrical grid. This proposal from someone who wants less government interference. But I think it would be a good addition. . . that and rainwater reclamation systems on all new houses to protect our water reservoirs. But I digress.

I agree with the contention that Saudi Arabia doesn’t need Nukes. I have been wary of Bush’s close relationship with Saudi Arabia since before he was elected. We should have let Hussein invade Saudi Arabia from Kuwait before fighting against them. . . then we could have really controlled the oil in the region as their ‘savior’.

ThackerAgency on June 10, 2008 at 10:14 AM

fogw on June 10, 2008 at 10:10 AM

You’re right. Better to let the Pakistanis do it so we have no insight or control over the program. The Saudis know they can’t trust us to protect them against the Iranians and one way or the other they are going to ensure their own security.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 10:15 AM

Thacker makes a good point. Recent advances in solar have made it quite a bit more viable on large scales, though still far from perfect and as efficient as we would like. Unfortunately, even in the Southwest we don’t get the same kind of annual solar rays pouring down on us that the real deserts over in the Saudi Neighborhood get. The cleaning and maintenance is a pain in the butt (but it does provide employment opportunities) but the Saudis could probably clean up on solar.

Jazz Shaw on June 10, 2008 at 10:23 AM

The administration may believe that nothing can stop Iran from producing nuclear weapons …”

There are PLENTY of things that can stop Iran from producing nuclear weapons!

For example:

B-1

B-2

B-52

F-117

F-15E

F-22

Tony737 on June 10, 2008 at 10:28 AM

Can anyone say Unconstitutional.

Johan Klaus on June 10, 2008 at 10:31 AM

If the US controls the kind of nuclear power that the Saudis get, they can keep it from being transformed into weapons technology. This makes some sense, especially since the Saudis have already declared their intention to seek “peaceful” nuclear power. We could push them towards the kinds of reactors that don’t lend themselves to producing weapons-grade fissile material if we remain in control of the program, and we can keep a closer eye on it from the inside than we can from the outside.

That’s a lot of ifs. Too many when Saudi Arabia is the country in question. Yes, someday we may see our very own technology flying back at us in the form of nuclear missiles.

4shoes on June 10, 2008 at 10:35 AM

It seems to me, though, that the best way to keep any of these countries from gaining nuclear weapons is to cut off their revenue streams. If we started drilling for oil in the US and adopted the nuclear power that we want to give the Saudis, we could undercut the current pricing structure that makes these nations flush with cash. Instead of relying on Middle Eastern resources, we could rely on our own, producing jobs and our own energy while the market crashes for OPEC. That way, we don’t have to give nuclear power to Wahhabist extremists to use as a counterweight to Persian extremists.

Yeah. Orrin Hatch and Wayne Allard agree with you.

Sen. Hatch: We have as much oil in oil shale in Utah, Wyoming and Colorado as the rest of the world’s oil combined. Liberals and environmentalists can talk all they want about wind, solar and geothermal – all of which I’m for – but last time I checked, planes, trains, trucks, ships and cars don’t run on electricity. 98% of transportation fuel right now is oil. Ethanol is the only real alternative, and we’re seeing that ethanol has major limitations.

It’s pathetic. Environmentalists are very happy having us dependent on foreign oil. They’re unhappy with us developing our own. What they forget to say is that shipping fuel all the way from the middle east has a big greenhouse gas footprint too.

Fortune: Sen. Salazar insists he just wants to take things more slowly.

Sen. Hatch: Sen. Salazar and the Colorado governor [Democrat Bill Ritter] say they don’t want it to happen too fast. Well, the existing law that I sponsored [which became part of the 2005 energy act] makes it abundantly clear that each governor gets to decide how quickly developments should move forward in their respective states. [Salazar and Ritter] know that. What they’re really doing is making sure that the governor of Utah and the governor of Wyoming never gets to make that decision for themselves.

Fortune: With gasoline at $4, why this isn’t this more of a front-and-center issue for consumers and voters?

Sen. Hatch: I’m generally the last guy to lambaste the media, but generally you do not hear these facts. We’re sending $600 billion annually to enemies of our country. If one acre of oil shale produces 1 million barrels of oil, that’s 1 million barrels that we would not be importing from Russia and the Middle East. People are going to go berserk when they find out that all along we had the capacity, within our own borders, to alleviate our dependency in an environmentally friendly way.

funky chicken on June 10, 2008 at 10:38 AM

Tony737 on June 10, 2008 at 10:28 AM

Which is exactly why you want to be involved in the program. So, if the worst ever happens and you need to take them out, you know exactly where they are. You know exactly how many they have and you know who the important people are. If you’re not involved you’re shooting blind and if Iraq taught us anything, it taught us our foreign intelligence sucks.

If you think the US would preemptively strike the Saudis when we are unwilling to do so against Iran then you must be convinced Obama is going to win since his Foreign Policy philosophy is to appease our enemies and attack our allies.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 10:38 AM

The only reason solar is an option is because federal law requires it’s use and because of massive subsidies.

Solar power can never be used for base power because it can’t be relied on. It isn’t there at all for half the day, and for the sunny half, it can disappear at a moments notice if a cloud pops up in the wrong spot.

As a result conventional plants have to be maintained running at full capacity so that they can be called on. These plants cannot be kept on standby. It takes hours to days to ramp up most fossil fuel plants.

Until an economical storeage method is developed, solar will never be more than a play thing for those who would rather look like they are doing something, rather than actually doing something.

MarkTheGreat on June 10, 2008 at 10:40 AM

funky chicken on June 10, 2008 at 10:38 AM

Funky, is their a poorer nation than North Korea? Did a lack of money stop them? The idea it takes tons of money has been proven incorrect. Pakistan, India and NK are all very poor nations.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 10:41 AM

Un-friggin-believable.

At a time when we need to be developing nuclear reactors, training nuclear engineers, and constructing nuclear infrastructure, the Bush administration is offering assistance to the Saudi’s? The same Saudi’s who are involved in the systematic rape of America’s economy with skyrocketing oil prices? The same Saudi’s who secretly fund terrorist groups? The same Saudi’s who told Bush to take a hike last month he pleaded for more oil production and lower oil prices?

That’s like asking someone to kick you in the balls right after they punched you in the face.

fogw on June 10, 2008 at 10:10 AM

At the very least, we shouldn’t be subsidizing their efforts. How stupid is the Bush administration?

funky chicken on June 10, 2008 at 10:42 AM

At the very least, we shouldn’t be subsidizing their efforts. How stupid is the Bush administration?

funky chicken on June 10, 2008 at 10:42 AM

How much would you be willing to pay to have some control over it? To know where they are? To know how many they have? To know how powerful they are? To know what control they have? To know who the important people in the program are? How much is all that worth the day you wake up and ralize we need to take them out? Stupid? Not in my book.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Funky, is their a poorer nation than North Korea? Did a lack of money stop them? The idea it takes tons of money has been proven incorrect. Pakistan, India and NK are all very poor nations.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 10:41 AM

So we should use US taxpayers’ dollars to help them build these power plants? The Sauds are sitting on huge oil reserves. Oil is cheaper to turn into energy than nuclear materials, and less dangerous, and produces less toxic waste. There is simply no reason that the Sauds need nuclear power.

And if I’ve learned anything about Islam since 2001, it’s that they may hate each other, but they hate us more. The whole “Sunnis can’t ever work with Shiites to kill the infidel” argument has proven wrong in the past, and I don’t have much hope that it will suddenly become valid for the future.

funky chicken on June 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM

Until an economical storeage method is developed, solar will never be more than a play thing for those who would rather look like they are doing something, rather than actually doing something.

MarkTheGreat on June 10, 2008 at 10:40 AM

The biggest strain on the power grid is during the middle of the day. Every industry gets subsidies (even oil). If every house had solar panels on it and rainwater reclamation systems, we wouldn’t have to worry about overcrowding and overusing the resources we have now. Solar power for a house can generate cash if you create more electricity than you use. You can sell the extra energy back to the power company.

Solar energy IS doing something (just look at the stocks of solar companies over the last year). It has gotten and will continue to get more efficient. I doesn’t cost anything to get it, and it never ends (unless we die). We can’t store hydro-electric either, but that hasn’t stopped us from building huge dams and using it effectively out west.

ThackerAgency on June 10, 2008 at 10:59 AM

MarkTheGreat on June 10, 2008 at 10:40 AM

I thought the same until very recently, but I was wrong.

The new large solar plants use mirrrs to focus the sun and heat water… this primary coolant then goes to heat a Large “heat resevoir”, which stores the heat… the stored heat is used to create steam, which powers a turbine…

Way differnt from the photvoltaic cells… but usefull for large scale generation as the heat resevoir can store energy up to 20 hours… ie… the plant still produces at night.

Won’t work in higher latitudes… but will work in the desert. There are now a couple of LARGE production plants in the process of being approred… funding seems to be there…

Romeo13 on June 10, 2008 at 11:03 AM

funky chicken on June 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM

In exchange for having some control, you bet. It’s money well spent.

You need to brush up on your Arab-Persian relations. The Saudis don’t view the US as a threat. They don’t view the Jews as a threat. The Jews don’t view the Saudis as a threat. We all view the Iranians as a threat. The Jews and the Saudis both now know they can no longer count on the US to protect them or the region in general. They both know dealing with the Iranians is their problem and the only way to deal with the Iranians is to be as strong as they are.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 11:11 AM

How exactly would a “peaceful” nuclear program counter balance a weaponized nuclear program?

abinitioadinfinitum on June 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM

abinitioadinfinitum on June 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM

It keeps the peace because the Iranians will have no doubt they will be nuked by Saudi Arabia should they head for their borders.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 11:20 AM

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 11:20 AM

My point exactly, the program as a deterrent will only work if it is a weaponized program. I think we have too many nuclear countries to worry about now. I do understand your point of “keeping control” of the nuke program, I just don’t believe we could keep control. As you have suggested with Pakistan and nuke’s, we can’t control them or any other country right now.

abinitioadinfinitum on June 10, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Apparently Bush feels he owes the Saudi’s a great deal. I wonder why?

Who authorized the only flight out of America late that day in September? Had anyone even pointed an official finger at the Moops on that day? I hope to live long enough to learn why George loved and protected the Saudi’s so much.

BL@KBIRD on June 10, 2008 at 11:51 AM

The Saudis don’t view the US as a threat.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 11:11 AM

15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 did.

Unless you don’t believe the Saudi government actively participated in funding the hijackers, Al-Qaeda and other islamic terrorists worldwide, and continue to do so.

November 2, 2007 …..

“Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan blamed al Qaeda’s Sept. 11 attacks on the United States’ failure to consult the kingdom’s security authorities in a “serious and credible manner.”

…. that’s our ally and former friend saying 9/11 was Bush’s fault.

They are not are friends. They are not to be trusted. Screw them. The U.S. is the one requiring assistance in reinvigorating it’s own nuclear power program, let the Saudi’s fend for themselves.

Do you honestly think our intelligence people will have a handle on everything the Saudi’s are up to? Last time I looked they really didn’t have much of an open society, especially when it came to Americans peering into their national affairs – domestic or military. Further complicating the problem is our intelligence community’s inability to gather any kind of reliable information.

fogw on June 10, 2008 at 11:58 AM

We don’t use solar power in our own deserts to any significant degree,

Do we use nuclear power in our own country to any significant degree? Is there any way Bush could help get us to go (more) nuclear powered? If its a good solution for the Saudis, why isn’t it an even better solution for us, when we have had a developed nuclear program for many decades?

Geministorm on June 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM

Don’t forget the 20+ Middle East nations expressing interest in ‘peaceful nuclear energy’ over the last couple years in response to Iran.

Europeans might want to look at stopping this hyperproliferation in their back yard.

The EU will be facing dozens of hostile nuclear powers within a few years. Luckily surrender plans are well in place and almost fully implemented. Just send the cartoonists and editors to Jordan, dhimmis.

Beagle on June 10, 2008 at 12:10 PM

They are not are friends. They are not to be trusted.

fogw on June 10, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Which is EXACTLY why you want your nose under the tent.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 12:23 PM

Wow, what idiots.

I suggest anyone who has an interest in this sort of thing read the following:

The Nuclear Jihadist: The True Story of the Man Who Sold the World’s Most Dangerous Secrets…And How We Could Have Stopped Him by Douglas Frantz

Great read, well researched and pretty frightening.

moxie_neanderthal on June 10, 2008 at 12:25 PM

The Saudis probably already have nuclear weapons.

They got them from the Pakistanis.

The Sauds see it as a check against the Iranians.

Tim Burton on June 10, 2008 at 12:41 PM

I just do not get it. Why Bush is beholden to the Saudi and why the freak Prince who Rudy wouldn’t take the check from owns 10% of Fox News.

It’s shameful.

AprilOrit on June 10, 2008 at 12:47 PM

Which is EXACTLY why you want your nose under the tent.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 12:23 PM

Wanting is a far cry from having, under every tent.

fogw on June 10, 2008 at 12:52 PM

I just do not get it. Why Bush is beholden to the Saudi and why the freak Prince who Rudy wouldn’t take the check from owns 10% of Fox News.

It’s shameful.

AprilOrit on June 10, 2008 at 12:47 PM

So I guess you actually want to pay $10 a gallon…. The Saudi could make that happen tomorrow morning.

TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2008 at 1:03 PM

Say we help the Saudi’s develop nukes with the intention of keeping tabs on the program while deterring Iran but then, once they have their first few warheads, they secret them from our view and tell us to take a hike. We might insist on our continued involvement but our demands would amount to nothing more than an empty request considering that Saudi Arabia’s oil weapon will be further enforced with a nuclear deterrent.

There is no way to paint this development as anything but a strategic blunder.

FloatingRock on June 10, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Say we’ve helped Saudi Arabia develop 10 nuclear warheads and then five teams of Saudi citizens sneak 5 of them into the US and detonate one or more of them, using those not detonated as a means of nuclear blackmail or as a deterrent. We determine that Saudi Arabia was responsible for the attack but if we attempt to deal with the threat not only will Saudi Arabia employ their oil weapon but if we try to stop them we’ll have to suffer the potential losses caused by their 5+ additional warheads hidden around their country.

FloatingRock on June 10, 2008 at 1:39 PM

Mushroom cloud.

ThePrez on June 10, 2008 at 5:00 PM

George Rosenberg Bush

Maquis on June 10, 2008 at 5:45 PM

This deal doesn’t sit right.

Though I do agree with the last paragraph re: finding more of our own energy sources and cutting OPEC out of the equation entirely.

MannyT-vA on June 11, 2008 at 7:57 AM