So when will Congress act on gas prices? Update: AOL Hot Seat Poll added
posted at 9:45 am on June 9, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Across the nation, gas prices have shot over $4 per gallon, and there appears to be no ceiling in sight. The economic shock continues to appear across the broad spectrum, raising retail prices on any goods coming to market, while wages cannot keep pace. As the buying power of Americans continues to erode, will Congress finally act to broaden supplies?
The average price of regular gas crept up to $4 a gallon for the first time over the weekend, passing the once-unthinkable milestone just in time for the peak summer travel season.
Prices at the pump are expected to keep climbing, especially after last week’s furious surge in oil prices, which neared $140 a barrel in a record-shattering rally Friday.
While Americans who have to drive will feel the biggest squeeze, the increased prices also translate into higher costs for consumers and businesses, who will be forced to shoulder increased costs for food and anything else that needs to be transported.
“I don’t think we’ve felt quite the full impact of $138 or $139 a barrel oil,” said Jason Toews, co-founder of fuel price research site GasBuddy.com.
Gas prices rolled past their latest threshold Sunday, increasing to $4.005 a gallon overnight from $3.988 the day before, according to AAA and the Oil Price Information Service.
Congress has put a tight hold on drilling and refining in the US for decades, and this is the inevitable result. The US sits on billions of barrels of oil within the continental shelves, billions more on the interior, and billions in ANWR. Yet we insist on going cap in hand to the Saudis for higher production rather than take some responsibility for our own energy needs, preferring to keep our landscapes while we demand that others exploit their own resources for our benefit.
We could shift some of our reliance on petroleum to nuclear power, on which Europe and Japan largely rely for their electricity. However, Congress under both parties has shown even less courage in standing up to the environmentalists on nuclear power than they have in domestic drilling. The coal industry could produce massive new sources for energy if they were less hamstrung. Yet Congress continues to look for unproven solutions while ignoring the workable solutions in front of them, and their dithering has produced an inflationary environment that resembles the 1970s.
Last week, Barbara Boxer tried to push through the Lieberman-Warner bill, claiming that it would address gas prices. It certainly would — by driving them much higher through over-regulation of the energy industry. The energy industry does not need further regulation. They need Congress to get the federal government out of its way so that it can add more supply to the market, which is the only way prices will fall.
We have asked for expanded nuclear power and domestic drilling for at least two decades. Every time the subject comes up, we get reminded that these solutions take seven years to have an effect. If we had acted seven years ago in the aftermath of 9/11, when it became clear that energy would involve national-security issues, the benefits would have started to arrive right about now — and oil speculation would have never climbed to its current state.
Drill here, drill now, and at least we can expect to pay less in a few years. In the meantime, let’s get started with nuclear and coal while researching as many possibilities for renewables as possible.
Update: NBC’s Today Show asks its two experts, Jim Cramer and Erin Burnett, about the solution, and both agree:
Cramer is exactly on point here. We need to be less selfish and start producing as much of our own oil as possible.
Update II: Jazz Shaw has a moderately dissenting opinion, and a must-read, at The Moderate Voice.
Update III: It was the Today show on NBC, not CNN. Must have had CNN on the brain today. I blame it on the Southern California air. Thanks to the readers who e-mailed me the correction.
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Ahhh a commodities guy. Thanks for making the natural resources sky rocket!
BTW serviced based economies aren’t the answer to the problem.
I have them in a bin actually. Why pay someone to hold them for me? Also when you get these disks, they aren’t all brassy/coppery looking. Kinda of oxydized so many really do not know what they are.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 2:34 PM
People are thinking too small- adding more oil isn’t the solution.
Study: Solar Thermal Power Could Supply Over 90 percent of U.S. Grid Plus Auto Fleet
http://www.ausra.com/news/releases/080306.html
bayam on June 9, 2008 at 2:36 PM
And that is just ANWR…
We can land a rover on Mars, but we can’t recover oil from our own soil?
right2bright on June 9, 2008 at 2:36 PM
It’s true. Another analogy: All the spent nuclear fuel from power plants and other sources since the beginning of nuclear power in the US 50 years ago is so small in volume that it could all fit in a single CostCo stacked to a depth of 9 feet. All the spent fuel generated in the annual operation of a single power plant reactor would fit in the bed of a standard pickup truck.
And that doesn’t even take into account that technology exists today so that spent fuel can be recycled again and again, and more energy harvested from what was, before, just waste.
RushBaby on June 9, 2008 at 2:36 PM
Obviously I don’t disagree, but that’s poor management, and god awful marketing. NYCMTA is booming right now, Metro north and LIRR as boasting their highest ridership ever. Amtrack had a seriously flawed business plan, and traveling by car was cheaper…in France, to go from Paris to Bordeaux on a sleeper train it’s about half as much as it is to drive. As America approaches that same zone, it will be a shame that we don’t have the light rail capacity for people to move regionally by train. Don’t get me wrong, I’d sooner slit my wrists than take a train from NY to LA…but from NYC to Boston…sure why not.
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 2:37 PM
bayam:
A 92×92 mile solar power park? They don’t say how much energy it would take to construct this 8500 square mile park. Does it take 20 years to get your energy back?
I lived on a boat for several years and lived off my own power. I had two large solar panels and one small wind generator. This was in San Diego, with plenty of sun and very little wind. Even so, the wind generator is what I lived off of. Two solar panels collecting all day could barely run the microwave for 3 minutes to make my dinner. I am a wind fan. Solar power still seems too inneficient.
dave742 on June 9, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Why not look into Geo-Thermal? Or Solar and Wind powered for houses, especially those in rural areas?
If you want to stop “oil” then maybe stop buying anything associated with it… which is about everything. Oh and live in a Cave, but then that could be associated via fault lines and you could have methane gas seep in via the cracks.
Not everything is as easy as you think.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 2:40 PM
That’s incredible…what’s all the friggin hub-bub about then…I’ll put one in my back yard! Imagine the tax benefits!
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 2:41 PM
I’m hearing similar things, from of all places, the friends of my young niece. They’re paying attention. They can’t stand the hildebeast and they’re genuinely affraid of Comrade Obambi.
McC doesn’t need us Conservatives. The Centrist Dems are going to elect him.
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 2:41 PM
Absolutely, but I hear that the Germans have something (ridiculously expensive) in the can that is literally a hundred fold better than current technologies. I’ll try and find specifics. And Maybe it was Belgium, but sounds German to me.
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 2:43 PM
solar in my experience works well with heating water… but that is about it.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 2:43 PM
given this logic, then we should just end all of our drilling activities in the US. it will have a large impace on our purchase of foreign oil supplies.
but we would have to buy 1 million barrels a day less from foreigners.
there is no alternative energy on the horizon, its a pipe dream.
actually we have those, add to ANWR drilling off the coasts, and the oil shale, and the oil in ND/montana, and you have more oil reserves than Saudi arabia.
right4life on June 9, 2008 at 2:44 PM
german houses have multiple solar panels on their roofs. To the point that is is one large solar panel.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Where do you get this information of what is supposedly under the ground?
ANWR is “confidential” via BLM, Dept of Interior and USGS. The oil in ND and MT are guessimates at best.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 2:47 PM
we will not be the ones bombing iran, unfortunately.
Amero, euro, whats the difference? ;-)
right4life on June 9, 2008 at 2:47 PM
Speak for yourself.
Most of us are looking at it from a triage point of view.
A multi-pronged attack…
Exploration and extraction of oil along with refineries
Along with that, a nuclear energy program
Extraction of more coal
A reduction in the use of energy
Adoption of “usable” alternative sources of power
These can be done simultaneously, but first the oil to stop the international “blackmail”.
You think of only one solution, and you think of excluding one because it doesn’t solve the problem.
You need a series of solutions to a complex problem. All of them add up to three important issues.
One it inspires creativity, a goal always does that, and out of that comes true innovation.
The second is it places the energy resources into the hands of the most able nation in the world, us.
and third, it allows us to be free from the tyranny of minor nations with big aspirations.
You’re thinking too small
right2bright on June 9, 2008 at 2:47 PM
its not hard to find…
A 2005 estimate set the total world resources of oil shale at 411 gigatons — enough to yield 2.8 to 3.3 trillion barrels (520 km³) of shale oil.[2][3][4][5] This is more than world’s proven conventional oil reserves, estimated to be 1.317 trillion barrels (209.4×109 m3), as of 1 January 2007.[21] The largest deposits in the world are found in the United States in the Green River basin, which covers portions of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming; about 70% of this resource is located on federally owned or managed land.[22] Deposits in the United States constitute 62% of world resources; together, the United States, Russia and Brazil account for 86% of the world’s resources in terms of shale oil content.[19] These figures are considered tentative, as several deposits have not yet been explored or analyzed.[6][2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale
right4life on June 9, 2008 at 2:49 PM
german houses have multiple solar panels on their roofs. To the point that is is one large solar panel.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 2:45 PM
and also that GIGANTIC array along the autobahn (The A5 I think)
Not to mention the Germans have done the unthinkable and has really started enforcing speed limits on the autobahn (GASP)…that said I was there last summer doing 110mph and being passed like I was standing still.
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Solar thermal is entirely different technology than what you find in solar panels. There’s really no comparison.
As to the time it would take to build it out, the answer is not fast enough unless the government makes it happen faster.
bayam on June 9, 2008 at 2:52 PM
lets see the nazis figured out how to convert coal to gas, do you think we could do the same? and perhaps improve upon it? we have huge amounts of coal.
right4life on June 9, 2008 at 2:52 PM
really sad…another sign of the end of the world.
right4life on June 9, 2008 at 2:53 PM
but do we have enough Jews?
Alright maybe that was a bit too far
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 2:53 PM
That’s the key, it is recycled so efficiently now that the past estimates of waste are way off base.
The bulk of our radioactive waste (that the anti-nukes state) comes from disarmed nuclear weapons, and the waste from building those weapons in the 50’s and 60’s. The plutonium was separated from the uranium in baths of acid and solvents. That is what is generating the most controversy in disposal.
right2bright on June 9, 2008 at 2:56 PM
Right, who ever put that information on there is wrong. trust me. You can not get ANY information on any of the “exploration” wells in ANWR. As well as anyone who was there for the drilling can be liable and prosecuted via the Federal Gov and the Oil companies due to a confidentiality clause.
As for the UT, CO, WY… How do you estimate something in the ground when it have never come out? An estimate is nothing but a scientific guess and in many cases they are wrong. Usually under and at times over what they “estimated” the pool(s) to be.
I don’t trust Wiki… to easy to manipulate.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 2:57 PM
How much time and money have we given US scientists to solve this problem? My belief is just the opposite- we are completely underestimating our ability to solve this problem with American inginuity and scientific brilliance. If the US put a man on the moon, we can solve this problem as well.
But policitians have to step forward and make it happen. Based on some of McCain’s remarks, I think there’s a chance he would take the type of same type of drastic action that produced the Apollo program- but for energy.
bayam on June 9, 2008 at 2:59 PM
I’m not against Nuclear. Seriously. I think it’s a fine idea. I also want them to drill in ANWR and the Gulf of MX NOW. Right NOW. Surely this country can walk and chew gum at the same time! We can drill now and dive into nuclear NOW. I think the answer should be BOTH. Did I say “NOW?”
Oink on June 9, 2008 at 2:59 PM
bayam:
Yeh. Sorry.
I’m interested in how much energy it takes to build the thing. If they used fossil fuel as an energy source to build this solar thermal park, how much would it take? How much energy does it take to maintain the park? These things are never addressed.
dave742 on June 9, 2008 at 2:59 PM
estimates are almost never right. and? so?
are you saying we shouldn’t drill because we might be wrong?
right4life on June 9, 2008 at 3:00 PM
We should campaign for Drill Here, Drill Now like we did against the immigration bill. Or shall we allow the left to bring us to our knees first?
petefrt on June 9, 2008 at 3:00 PM
I was there march 2007… the autobahn freaked me out. I was in a Didge truck (and you know how germans love chrome) and they were passing us, but then would SLOW DOWN to drive next to us and look at the truck. Then speed off. I think we were going about 100 or so.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:01 PM
Absolutely BRILLIANT!
Oink on June 9, 2008 at 3:01 PM
but the endangered desert leopard skunk scorpion owl fish…what will we do when those are gone….what will we do when THOSE are gone?
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Do I need more Federal Grants for these Scientists to figure it out? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
If you want to give all your money over for this project. Please be my guest!
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:02 PM
OH MY GOD same thing with me. We rented the car in Amsterdam, and I actually rented a little VW POLO, but they were out of handheld GPS, and the thought of thinking take a right on Oostervanhooser at 70mph made me nervous, so they gave us a Chrysler 300C wagon, which is the same as our Dodge Magnum. I have never had my car checked out as much as I did on that trip…was it insulting or were they really interested in it?
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 3:06 PM
No Right, what I am saying is that a geologist with an geophysist and a geo-econ-stratigist figure out the pressures and the Type of oil (they test the oil based on the molecules, the micro-fossils and other things) to show what type of pool it is. Afterwards they go off mathmetic equations and base it off that.
Lately these people have been wrong on the sizes of these pools. They are smaller then estimated. Today most oil industry are not conservative in thnking this way because the more share holders, the more money. As when before the 80’s they were extrememly conservative in estimation and were usually on target OR the guess was smaller then the pool.
That is what I am saying. It may be scientific, but you can’t count your chickens before they are hatched.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:07 PM
Well think about it this way. germans like to see new things, they enjoy vehicles.. I would say more so then Americans. Chromed out Harly’s they actually drool over. They were slowing down probably because they have never seen one before and were very curious.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Sigh, solar only works during daylight hours… its not a sole source solution as we do not have the technology to store it for nighttime hours.
Add in transmission losses, and you could not have one plant nationwide… so snow becomes an issue for winter in a large part of the nation.
What this leads to is you HAVE to have a more realiable source available for when solar does not work (ie, night and winter)… so, you have the plant costs for BOTH the Solar plants, and the Other electricity souce which will have to be passed on to the electricity consumer.
Its cost prohibitive to the society.
ONLY way solar makes sense is if it is produced and used near manufacturing plants in the Southwest, because they would not be producing at night, and do not have the snow problem.
Its like wind power… to unpredictable and unstorable. Not cost effective without government subsidies.
Romeo13 on June 9, 2008 at 3:09 PM
While I completely agree we need to start exploring/drilling in our own back yard so we can tell the middle east oil sheiks to go to hell the one thing I have noticed that is missing in this discussion (other than noted by Ed here; Congress has put a tight hold on drilling and refining in the US for decades) is the fact we don’t currently have enough refining capabilities in the US. We could have all the oil in the world and it won’t help to alleviate gas prices if we don’t have the refining capacity.
With that stated if our government finally does the right thing and tells the enviro-hippie-nuts to shut up and begins to allow drilling in the US our government will also have to allow and simplify the regulatory process for the building of new refineries as we haven’t built a new one in over 30 years thanks to the enviro-hippie-nuts.
The fact that the enviro-hippie-nuts almost always base their environmental ideology on emotion has always been a point of contention with me. They fight the building of new refineries because they supposedly want to “protect” the environment yet they completely ignore the fact that operating refineries that are more than 30 years old is much more polluting and less energy efficient than a newer facility built on current technology would be.
Our government needs to tell the emotional enviro-hippie-nuts to take a long hike off a short pier by drilling and exploration here in the US as well as building more refineries using current technology so they are as efficient and non-polluting as possible.
$4+ per gallon is ridiculous and it will only get worse until something is done by rational logical people using sound science to explore, drill, and refine our own oil and the only way that will get done is to get the irrational illogical enviro-hippie-nuts and their emotional environmental ideology the hell out of the way!
Liberty or Death on June 9, 2008 at 3:11 PM
Start hunting the endangered spotted woodlands fuzzy armadillo lobster crane. :)
RushBaby on June 9, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Forgot to mention anything Dodge they love…
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:16 PM
Many of these companies have no government support- certainly far less subsidies than the oil industry (not including the military costs). When you’re buying $8 gas in a couple years, maybe you’ll finally figure that it’s not such a great policy.
Construction costs are obviously high, but the fossil fuel consumption is a one-time hit and not recurring. And the technology provides around-the-clock energy, not just when during the day.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/ItsSolarPowersTimeToShine.aspx?page=2
The larger point is that the US has the capacity to solve this problem on its own, and with a fuel that will remain stable in price unless God introduces a sunshine tax. Not even coal will be cheap forever given the growth rates of the developing world.
bayam on June 9, 2008 at 3:16 PM
you are cracking me up!
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:17 PM
yeah that was a good one for sure rushbaby
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 3:19 PM
You aren’t getting it.
The US has this and that. How about Germany or England or China or India or the people of Antarctica start making something.
The WORLD does not need the United States to be their Environmental SAVIOR!
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:20 PM
It’s worse that that, LD. At the root of their ideology is genuine anti-capitalism. Squishy emotionalism is for the Darryl Hannah types. The real political obstructionism is carried out based on much more cold and malevolent calculations.
RushBaby on June 9, 2008 at 3:20 PM
It’s not about saving the environment, I’m not adressing that at all. You don’t seem to understand the implications of growing oil demands and peak oil. Adding all of ANWR to the oil supply isn’t going to make a difference. As the world marekts adjust to peak oil, other fossil fuels will start to see major price increases across the board- in addition to the unavoidable impact of a bull commodities market. Nuclear, solar, wind and non-fossil fuels are the only way to sustainable, low cost energy production.
bayam on June 9, 2008 at 3:25 PM
this is stuck on a cookie again
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:26 PM
The problem with energy solutions is that there is more than one problem, so one solution can not fix all. We have an abundance of oil in the 57 states. Most of the “new” oil will come from refurbished wells, more creative drilling in known reservoirs, etc. Someone previously stated that the geologists always overstate the recoverable reservoir size. Thats baloney – if anything they understate the size. As time goes by their estimates are generally upped with newer technology.
We need to increase petroleum production and restrict it to mobile uses to maximize its efficiency. Mobile transportation using electricity is not very efficient and if the energy source comes from petroleum, it is even less efficient. Use coal and nuclear. The technology is proven if we can get the enviros out of the way. Mobile energy can also be increased by coal to oil and oil shale conversion.
In Oklahoma we generate a lot of electricity using natural gas. That is good for the utilities with less maintennce, but natural gas is most efficient when delivered to the use point by pipeline (to your house). We need to stop using mobile energy sources (oil) for home heating.
Old Country Boy on June 9, 2008 at 3:29 PM
Peak oil? We have no clue if we have hit Peak oil! The Bell Curve obviously isn’t true! So how in the hell can you say that when they keep finding pools of oil?
Good Lord. Did you ever think that Oil is probably being made right now and trickling up ever so slowly?
nevermind… as I agree we need to use alternatives as a way to save money but I don’t think you are not getting the jist.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:31 PM
LOL @ 57 states!
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Old as much as it pains me, there are some areas that do not have Natural Gas and are unable to get the pipelines near them yet.
Oklahoma is a great place for pipelines and such due to the flat land.. but what about other States who don’t have it so good?
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Whatever, I’ll let you argue with someone else over the selection of terms to describe the current factors driving oil pries higher. There are not that many oil analysts who think that today’s or tomorrow’s discoveries will meet worldwide demand or fundamentally change the price equation. When oil reaches $200 a barrel, perhaps reality will start to sink in.
bayam on June 9, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Ok, you hire some politicians for your R&D, and I’ll hire engineers and scientists. We’ll see who comes up with a solution first.
My prediction is your team will claim success first, and claim any success from the other team is due to their action; but they won’t actually accomplish anything of note.
Could you explain again why/how politicians are of any importance, except for their propensity to get in the way, mess things up, and force unnecessary delays on most processes?
I thought we’d be looking for an “efficient” solution. I guess (since we need politicians first and foremost) that efficiency is irrelevant.
gekkobear on June 9, 2008 at 3:37 PM
I’m glad you brought up natural gas. From April this year:
Read this.
RushBaby on June 9, 2008 at 3:37 PM
How are those states getting gasoline right now?
RushBaby on June 9, 2008 at 3:39 PM
Thanks RB! We’ve gotta push for nuclear. I’ve always thought that it is a major answer for lessening our dependency on ME oil, thus weakening the ME’s power and influence.
The only reason I voted for oil in the poll is because I had to choose between oil and nuclear. I really wish there had been an ‘All of the above’ choice. I think it would’ve overwhelmingly been the majority choice.
Interesting thread! I should be working! ;o)
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 3:42 PM
So, when oil stay steadily over $xx (often thought of as 55-75_ and the tar sands become economically feasible; are we still at the peak, or does it move?
When oil stays (and will obviously stay) well over $XX (often thought in th 70-110 range) and shale oil conversion is economically feasible (again shifting the number) does the peak move again?
I keep running at the mountain, but it keeps running away. There’s poetry or something to this “peak oil” concept.
When new drilling technology is available for more lateral drilling, allowing old areas thought “drilled out” to be re-used; do we revise the “peak” again? Of course using that technology is pricier, increasing the lifting cost; therefore making it only feasible when oil is higher than a certain number (although we’re using it a lot more today than 15 years ago).
Sorry, but I heard we were at the “peak” of peak oil when I was researching the environment in the early 1980’s. And I’ve heard we’re at or near the peak every 5 years since then.
At some point you might be correct, but if you claim that the sun will burn out tomorrow I’d have to make the same concession. Yes, eventually that statement will likely be true.
As we’ve seen oil become more pricy, we’ve found more oil to go after. Why all of a sudden this will stop happening?
I am also curious what happens to the price of oil when India and China (and others, but those two are the largest from what I’ve read) are unable to pay their Government subsidies to artificially protect their consumers from the real price of oil. Price-wise that is, I’m not as curious what the rioting will look like.
Will oil demand really grow at this rate even when the subsidies have to end and consumers are no longer protected from the effects of oil price, or will that make a difference?
gekkobear on June 9, 2008 at 3:46 PM
Hmmmm….
An electric car with a gas engine using Compressed Natural Gas?
Use the model that a Diesal locomotive uses where the diesal is used at a constant speed to generate electricity… more efficient that way…
Hmmm… easily done intermediary step… and we have LOTS of Natural gas.
Romeo13 on June 9, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Personally I just want the US to take care of the US! Let the Chinese, Indians, etc. buy from the Middle East.
We are our own worst enemy in this country. The world must think we’re downright stupid. They just might be right.
Oink on June 9, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Actually, I meant to recommend that everybody fire your congressmen and senators. That would be the one fix to the energy problem.
Upinak – If you can get cable to your house, you can get natural gas if you are willing to pay for it. I spent $5K getting natural gas to my rural home. Unfortunately many utilities that sell natural gas to the public also use it themselves, and they would make more money off of electricity. As far as pipelines are concerned, if Local 798 of the pipeliners’ union can send pipelines over the Alaskan mountains, through the sahara and arabian deserts, and under the gulf and North Seas, they can probably get one to east overshoe Oregon or such.
I don’t mean to denigrate the renewal sources – solar, wind, and cow farts, but these are unproven on gigawatt scales.
Old Country Boy on June 9, 2008 at 3:50 PM
All of the above.
Tzetzes on June 9, 2008 at 3:51 PM
I live in rural West Texas, aka Permian Basin. My home is surrounded with wind turbines, as is much of West Texas. For what, has it exceeded 1% of energy production yet? And tremendous subsidy paid for by our taxes. Don’t want to mar the landscape? Give me a break. At least a pump jack on a producing well isn’t visible miles away. Got a problem with unemployment, economy, funding terrorists, bad import/export numbers, rising gas and food prices, inflation? Drill everywhere NOW. It is a no brainer. Florida afraid of damage to their beaches? So its okay for China to drill 60 miles off their shores, but we can’t. When did China’s record on safety and the environment become better than that of the US? McCain says he would leave the decision to the states for the off shore and interior drilling, but not allow Alaska the same rights. Doesn’t make a lot of sense. And, we can continue to search for alternate energy sources at the same rate we are now, and taking care of current problems at the same time.
Oleta on June 9, 2008 at 3:52 PM
what if they find oil on Mars? Oh how kickass would that be. How long do you think it would take us to get men on mars if that ends up being the case (which of course it won’t I’m not an idiot)
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 3:54 PM
.
The point was that there aren’t enough engineers and scientists working to solve the problem due to limited funding. Companies like Ausra are running on venture capital money- it’s a trickle compared to what the US invested in the Apollo space program.
The US has become too dumb and slow on too many fronts. What will it take to start real change, $10 gas? It’s insane and the oil shieks must be laughing at us to no end.
bayam on June 9, 2008 at 3:59 PM
I like how mass transit is dead last. There is an easy way to get off oil dependence, use mass transit. On that note, DEVELOP mass transit. The more people that use it and demand better services the better the transit system will get.
Hell we can even hand it over to private companies to make you all happy.
PresidenToor on June 9, 2008 at 4:01 PM
I agree. I voted for the nuclear and jumped in to advocate for it because it’s so misunderstood. The case for it has been so eloquently written by Gwyneth Cravens — who used to march in ban-the-bomb rallies. Her points are so easy to understand that my grandkids get it.
Me too. I’m a hopeless addict.
RushBaby on June 9, 2008 at 4:02 PM
I agree, not to mention the countless jobs it would create in building and maintaining, and running. (And the potential strikes see Frenchie). It could be like Obama’s New New Deal.
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 4:08 PM
not sure if it’s 3.7 or 4.5 litres per gallon, but either way our best prices at the moment are.. let’s see..
About $5.40 per gallon. Probably closer to $6
So there, go off and feel good about yourselves now.
Already happening bud.
In unrelated news, I’m surprised hotair hasn’t put up the George Soros interview..
Reaps on June 9, 2008 at 4:09 PM
Respectfully, upinak, Oklahoma is not flat. Far from it. It’s green and hilly and beautiful. Too bad it’s a tornado magnet. ;o)
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 4:11 PM
it’s all them trailer parks
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 4:15 PM
When Dems grabbed control of Congress in 06 one of their promises was to lower gas prices. Why aren’t we seeing a flood of YouTube comparison vids showing their vow in 2006, and their whining today?
scottm on June 9, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Here’s something I’ve been looking at and thinking about seriously. It’s obviously not a long haul vehicle, but for running around town and short trips and commuting, (for those of you unfortunate enough to have to do so), it might be worth a look.
106 miles per gallon.
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 4:18 PM
because people able to make that distinction can’t figure out how to upload videos on that newfangled youtube.
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 4:21 PM
I see no reason why we can’t do everything. why can’t we drill, build nuclear plants, build coal to liuquid, solar, wind, geothermal, tide, ethanol, fuel cells. the more and varied the energy sources the less chance of this ever happening again. when one goes up the others will keep it from going up to much as consumers constantly switch to the cheaper energy source.
unseen on June 9, 2008 at 4:23 PM
LMFAO. As most people assume I live in the lower 48. I don’t. I use Satelite for TV if I watch it at all. I am lucky to have natural gas, but I have lived in some areas where I was lucky to have electric. When not at those types, I had Fuel Oil (which has quadurpled here in my State in the last year). Alaska has it’s own way of having things done… we improvize. Which includes pipelines… and Alaska has it much tougher then almost every other State but Hawaii, and some parts of California due to “earthquakes”.
Oklahoma is quite flat compared to where I live. BUT the North Slope I will have to say is much flatter then Oklahoma in many ways….
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Ummmm… because we work for a living and haven’t had time to make them yet? ;o)
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 4:24 PM
why’s it gotta be so damn fugly?
Seriously though I would be all for this, and I’d do some more research as well, here in NYC that would be GREAT…my main question in the research though would be…what does a semi do to it? a 1000lb block of old fashioned cast iron does a lot of blunt force damage to “space age materials”
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 4:25 PM
you obviously have never been oversea to europe. Think about how much we pay here compared to what they pay in a liter. Hell I feel sorry for Canadians right now.
So maybe your arguement is null and void and they are already using these “alternatives” in Europe and guess what… they aren’t working to well.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Ride more bikes and live in communes!!!!
Seriously though, why can’t the government just mandate that we have cars that run on seawater. I mean, that would clear this whole thing right up, no?
VolMagic on June 9, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Ah! Yeah, my neighbors to the north have few mountains, but many hills and lakes. And since I’m from Texas, I get pulled over almost everytime I go there due to my Texas plates.
Ya see, they’ve got this football insanity or something. Lots of boomer sooner nonsense everywhere. I could care less. I don’t even pay attention to the Dallas Cowboys. I’m a fan of the only real sport there is; HOCKEY!
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 4:29 PM
OMG not the next generation of SMART CAR!
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Can one of the advocates of more nuclear power explain to me how I’m going to fuel my car with it?
Our problem is liquid energy, not electricity.
Golden Boy on June 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM
HERESY.
VolMagic on June 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Ahhh they turn Natural gas into a liquid and then use it to make electricity.
So I would ask you to think again!
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 4:31 PM
I believe in ‘trust but verify’ and you haven’t given me any verification or reason to trust you.
again, so? you’re saying don’t drill because its an estimate??? everything we do is based upon the odds.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 2:57 PM
right4life on June 9, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Nuclear to your home electric, electric to your car.
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Heh. Looks are secondary to me, at this point. It’s the technology I’m interested in.
Also, I think there are saftey studies on that site… yep, but they’re mostly concerned with the 4500psi compressed air tank. Carbon fibre wrapped.
I can just see it being punted like a football if it should get hit by a Hummer or something. Frame is supposedly tubular aluminum with a foam filled fiberglass body.
The engine looks cool as hell.
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Golden Boy on June 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Sure. Anything to made the greens mad. :)
VolMagic on June 9, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Golden Boy on June 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Nuclear does two things in the long run. One it will help if/when we go to electric cars in the cities. Tow nuclear is a very cheap way to make hydrogen.
unseen on June 9, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Bikes make my nads go to sleep. Seriously, that can’t be healthy.
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 4:35 PM
I heard somewhere though that it takes so much energy to compress the gas that it is in fact a net loss. I don’t know though that could just be anti natgas propaganda.
beefytee on June 9, 2008 at 4:35 PM
I get that a lot. ;o)
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 4:36 PM
I know what you mean :)
VolMagic on June 9, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Yup. You were dead on in your earlier point by point post as well.
Excellent thread!
techno_barbarian on June 9, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Ok right… if you don’t want to trust me.. I can give you links and you can call people at the BLM here in Alaska concerning the wells in ANWR. But not like they will talk to you LMFAO!
As for the estimates on oil pools and how they grade, proof it and other things. Look it up. I gave you a blip of what is really done. If you don’t trust me.. go to the oil drum and ask those who work with oil everyday… as I do. But most of them still believe in peak oil.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 4:42 PM
Depends of the type of Natural Gas. Methane is very wet, so it doesn’t take as much. Propane is heavy and needs an additive, besides the smell we all associate with it.
Making fertilizer is interesting though!
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 4:44 PM
oh ok I didn’t know you were part of the conspiracy!!
yeah I believe everything people on message boards tell me!!! LMAO!!
but again who cares if the estimates are wrong or right? do you want to drill there or not? can’t answer that can you?
right4life on June 9, 2008 at 4:45 PM
The most elemental argument against mass transit.
RushBaby on June 9, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Does it look like a grape when someone hits it, making the airbags explode on the outside?
Ok I am joking.. but it looks like a funky Smart car…
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 4:46 PM
right.. I am totally for drilling the crap out of ANWR! Are you kidding me!
I am just saying don’t believe the estimates… lately they have been wrong.
upinak on June 9, 2008 at 4:47 PM
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