Indonesia moves to ban moderate Muslim group
posted at 1:15 pm on June 9, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Send to a Friend |
printer-friendly
Their places of worship have been torched, Muslims call for their death, and police do nothing to protect them in this Islamist state. Are these Jews or Christians? No, the sect that finds itself under siege is a moderate Islamic group whose teachings offend the mainstream Muslims in Indonesia:
Members of a moderate Muslim sect were ordered by the government Monday to return to mainstream Islam or face possible imprisonment for insulting the country’s predominant religion.
Critics may see the step as a failure by the government of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to uphold the young democracy’s secular values as it struggles to define its Muslim identity after decades of dictatorship.
The vast majority of Indonesia’s Muslims are moderate, but in recent years an extremist fringe has grown louder. The government, which relies on the support of Islamic parties in Parliament, has been accused of caving in to their demands.
The document signed Monday by two Cabinet ministers and the attorney general “orders all Ahmadiyah followers to stop their activities” or face up to five years in prison.
Indonesia’s constitution guarantees freedom of religion, but many in the nation of 235 million consider it offensive that the sect does not recognize Muhammad as the last prophet.
Indonesia recently moved from dictatorship to democracy, but the rule of law still needs a little work. Their constitution supports freedom of religion, but apparently holds little power against a minority of radical Islamists unwilling to peacefully co-exist with other, more moderate sects even within Islam. Their violence and the threat of escalation has the elected government backpedaling, trying to appease them by sacrificing their ecumenical principles.
If these extremists can’t coexist with moderate Muslims, they certainly aren’t going to negotiate shared space with Christians or Jews. Those who call for negotiations with radical extremists should learn a lesson in Indonesia. The extremists will always use violence to beat everyone else into submission. The pacifists who dream of multicultural understanding will almost always act to appease them, until their own space finally gets invaded by the extremists.
Earlier today, we noted the success that we have had in Indonesia against terrorists, and that is good news. Their capitulation to religious extremists in the first test of religious freedom is disappointing and potentially dangerous. Hopefully the Indonesian government will rethink its ban on Ahmadiya and instead start arresting those who want to impose their religious beliefs through violence.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Today Indonesia, tomorrow us.
Entelechy on June 9, 2008 at 1:20 PM
These people just don’t get it…
HotJavaJack on June 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Gads - state enforced religion is the bane of our existance. I am truly grateful to live in the USA.
Ed, do you have any information on the status of militant Islam in Mindanao?
HeIsSailing on June 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Reminds me of the state sanctioned and enforced attack on Christianity in the US.
snaggletoothie on June 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Wow, I can just see very similar headlines in Europe in about five years, and in the states in ten.
Think_b4_speaking on June 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Maybe the Texas and Federal Governments could show the radicals the proper way to oppress unorthodox religions.
We should abandon the big 3 religions before they kill us all. Old fable books are not the word of God.
LevStrauss on June 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Prove it.
trubble on June 9, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Reminds me of the state sanctioned and enforced attack on Christianity in the US.
snaggletoothie on June 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
More like the attack on Mormonism. The whole “last prophet” argument is what has me making the connection.
LevStrauss on June 9, 2008 at 1:30 PM
Isn’t this where Obama is getting plenty of support from?
Hening on June 9, 2008 at 1:32 PM
We in the U.S. are next if we don’t keep up vigil. ROP is here and wanting their grimy hands on our country. Dear bho will be happy to help all he can.
L
letget on June 9, 2008 at 1:33 PM
What exactly does that mean?
They support the spread of Islam, but just let your kids blow themselves up for it?
Hening on June 9, 2008 at 1:33 PM
I’m offended that a swaggering, overbearing, caravan thief, murderer and child molester is considered a prophet at all, first, last, or whatever. Can we ban Islam now?
Kafir on June 9, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Members of a moderate Muslim sect were ordered by the government Monday to return to mainstream Islam or face possible imprisonment for insulting the country’s predominant religion.
Calling liberal activists. Please pick up the Red Phone.
Tony737 on June 9, 2008 at 1:38 PM
Which is it Ed, mainstream or extremists? You called them both.
See how confusing it is when you operate from the “hijacked religion” meme? These are true Muslims banning wishy washy “moderates”. Any bells going off?
BL@KBIRD on June 9, 2008 at 1:39 PM
The use of “moderate” and “radical” is rather confusing in this article. The “moderates” seem to have a rather “radical” view concerning traditional Islamic belief. It appears “radical” means violent and has nothing to do with theology here.
It seems like this is a religious scrap, not to be confused with planes going into buildings or suitcase nukes. We had those types of things in this country before most of us decided to just go through the motions on Sunday morning as long as it didn’t cut into football or NASCAR.
LevStrauss on June 9, 2008 at 1:40 PM
The United Nations issued the following statement: “Don’t look the bully in the eye and maybe you won’t lose your lunch money.”
Limerick on June 9, 2008 at 1:42 PM
Those who call for negotiations with radical extremists should learn a lesson in Indonesia. The extremists will always use violence to beat everyone else into submission.
Just as they’ve done since the days of their false prophet 1,400 years ago.
The pacifists who dream of multicultural understanding will almost always act to appease them, until their own space finally gets invaded by the extremists.
Feeding the crocodile.
Tony737 on June 9, 2008 at 1:47 PM
These are true Muslims banning wishy washy “moderates”. - Blak
Absolutely right, but we need to at least morally support the apostates … ooops, I mean moderates, and hope that they embrace freedom and fight against the true muslims.
Tony737 on June 9, 2008 at 1:51 PM
We should abandon the big 3 religions before they kill us all. Old fable books are not the word of God.
LevStrauss on June 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Right, they certainly are all at fault, aren’t they? Poor Muslims just can’t keep up with all the bloodshed in the name of Abraham and Jesus.
Grafted on June 9, 2008 at 1:57 PM
Actually, Indonesia’s Islam was pretty mellow and folk-ish until the Wahhabi oil money started advancing the Burka King franchise. Indonesia is one of the places where Islam spread more or less peacefully, from Islamic trading outposts. Though they developed a homegrown jihadi brand or two in the interim which the Dutch crushed.
Another (tragic) reason Ahmadis are reviled: their pacifism.
DRPrice on June 9, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Just like the school bully, he won’t stop until he gets you or you get fed up and crush him good.
4shoes on June 9, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Sounds very familiar… are the Mormons behind this? It could be that the LDS church has decided to expand into Islam.
bayam on June 9, 2008 at 2:00 PM
The Ahmadiyya’s have a strong presence in Canada and a smaller, but significant one in the US. They differ from the more well known Islamic derivative, the Baha’i faith, in that they claim to be the true Islam whereas the Baha’is define themselves as a new religion.
Both of these are essentially pacifist faiths.
Annar on June 9, 2008 at 2:03 PM
Nice! I may have to steal that.
trubble on June 9, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Muhammed was child-molesting nut possessed by the demon named Allah. Is this statement “offensive” enough to Indonesia’s Muslims?
jgapinoy on June 9, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Do they serve Chechchen Chicken Jihad at the Burka King?
BL@KBIRD on June 9, 2008 at 2:15 PM
Holy Smokes Captain! When are you going to stop smoking the Bush brand of wacky weed? Indonesia was polled a mere months after 9/11 and fully 59% of them had high confidence in Bin Laden. Hey be happy they got ALOT more moderate in the years since…all the waaaaaaaaay down to 41% of the muslim population of the largest muslim population in a country think that Binny Babeeee is A-Freaking-OK.
But we still have folks convinced….CONVINCED that somehow we are going to bring sweetness and light to them by merely giving them the vote. Islam is moderate…yea whatever.
PierreLegrand on June 9, 2008 at 2:35 PM
I would take severe offense at your gross misunderstainding of the peaceful prophet - if your words weren’t so true.
Grafted on June 9, 2008 at 2:43 PM
When I posted this story at Jihad Watch this morning, I noted that the Ahmadis are being charged with “insulting Islam” simply for their not accepting it.
Ponder that. Ponder the implications.
Robert Spencer on June 9, 2008 at 3:09 PM
How about banning YOU. From this site. Bigot.
Grow Fins on June 9, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Kafir:
While I am aware of the Islamic supremacist threat to the U.S. and the free world in general, please remember: we don’t have thoughtcrime in the United States.
Robert Spencer on June 9, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Grow Fins
I thought you had been banned.
BL@KBIRD on June 9, 2008 at 3:25 PM
Robert Spencer
If Islam cannot legislated against then what is your thought on metaphorically slaying the Moops and rendering Islam to room temp?
BL@KBIRD on June 9, 2008 at 3:32 PM
Moops?
Robert Spencer on June 9, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Anyway, I don’t think a 1400-year-old, billion-strong belief system can be easily rendered to “room temp,” especially given that people aren’t really persuaded by rational arguments.
Robert Spencer on June 9, 2008 at 3:51 PM
As the noted Islamophobe Mark Steyn puts it, the majority cannot, by definition, be extremist.
A reference to a Seinfeld episode I believe, meaning the Moors.
VolMagic on June 9, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Yep. It’s still very folkish in the villages. It’s really not wrong to say that most Indonesians are moderate in practice. What is true, however, is that they are easily swayed (or indimidated) into a more fanatical position.
TexasDan on June 9, 2008 at 4:27 PM
We`re going to see civil wars all over the word in Islamic countries. That`s the main battle field in the war on terror.
ThePrez on June 9, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Full disclosure–I lifted it from Mark Steyn. One of his many great turns of phrase.
DRPrice on June 9, 2008 at 5:23 PM
The Ahmadiyya are an extremely assertive proselytising Islamic group.
I have met several members of the denomination, and they are among the most anti-Christian, and anti-Western Muslims I have encountered. Many are active in Islamic apologetics. They sprang out of Pakistan in the 19th century, as an anti-British movement. Unfortunately, their inflammatory ideology makes an easy stepping stone for radical Islam.
Of course their persecution is appalling, but I’ll not be crying too hard about this measure.
Pax americana on June 9, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Pax Americana:
My experience of Ahmadiyya Muslims has matched yours.
Robert Spencer on June 9, 2008 at 6:12 PM
There’s no such thing as a moderate Muslim. It’s all written in the Koran, plus perpetual war was declared against nonbelievers years ago.
Because, when push comes to shove, the so-called moderate must team up with the radical, or else, they’ll lose their heads. Anything else is just wishful, and foolish thinking. Albeit, the West has it’s share of fools that believe ALL can be accomplished with lace, and nice talk!
byteshredder on June 9, 2008 at 6:54 PM
There are the fundamentalist Muslims who actually believe what the Koran says and apply it, and then there’s the Muslims who sit on the sidelines and do nothing while the jihadists destroy civilization. This is SO predictable.
Mojave Mark on June 9, 2008 at 7:15 PM
Maybe you are looking at it the wrong way Mr. Spencer. It is against the law to advocate the overthrow of the US Government. You know better than most that at it’s core it is a supremacist belief system that cannot rest until it has indeed overthrown the United States.
PierreLegrand on June 9, 2008 at 7:19 PM
My apologies for the ambiguous approach Robert. I was asking your opinion of the best weapon non Muslims can use against Islam and it’s followers to destabilize Islam to destruction. I later realize it would not be fair to ask you such a question as your answer may be used against you by the Moops*.
*Seinfeld………4?
BL@KBIRD on June 9, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Support a missionary.
TexasDan on June 9, 2008 at 10:38 PM