Quote of the day
posted at 9:15 pm on June 7, 2008 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | regular view
“What would have happened if Obama’s bill had passed? There is no way to know for sure, but it seems likely that, facing less resistance, Al Qaeda in Iraq would have continued to gain strength, the fragile Iraqi Security Forces would have collapsed, as would the fragile Iraqi government, militias would have flourished–and the United States would have departed under fire, accepting a humiliating defeat in the war against al Qaeda that would have reverberated globally.
For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.”
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 3 Next »
We are all just under-the-bus fodder for his Marxist aspirations.
bbz123 on June 7, 2008 at 9:18 PM
word.
truecon on June 7, 2008 at 9:19 PM
Considering the mass media has basically had a blackout on news coming out of Iraq since the ’surge’ has worked over the past year, does the American voting public even realize that the war effort is succeeding now?
Sure, for all of us who have been paying attention and realize the success and progress that is Iraq now, this is a no-brainer argument to make. But, for the average voter who stopped paying attention to Iraq when it was deemed “lost” by the Democrats and wrote it off as a lost cause, do they even realize the turnaround and great success we are having now? Will John McCain pound that fact home or will Barack Obama continue to get away with calling this the worst blunder in history?
Color me completely pessimistic and cynical, but I don’t think Americans even realize the success of the war effort and will continue to allow Barack Obama to get away with lying about it. Since McCain will have no mass media coverage to point to to back up saying the war effort is a success, and the mass media will not be forthcoming with anything to back him up, I just don’t know how this argument will play in the general election.
But, I hope I’m wrong.
Michael in MI on June 7, 2008 at 9:24 PM
Plus, Obama’s ace in the hole is to just respond by saying “yeah, well, I wouldn’t have gone to Iraq in the first place and would have saved us million$ as well as 4,000 lives of our men and women blah blah blah”. Then McCain and the GOP will have to defend the decision to go to Iraq in the first place, which they stopped doing a long time ago.
If Obama succesfully moves the goalposts and the debate from the ’surge’ decision to the decision to go to Iraq in the first place, he could win the debate. Especially since supporters of the war gave up on defending the reasons for going years ago. Even a couple pundits at NRO The Corner have explicitly stated that going to Iraq was a mistake. With that kind of support, from the supposedly conservative NRO, Obama’s team could successfully move this dicussion of the war effort into his favor.
Again, though, I hope I am wrong. And I hope McCain is ready for this line of attack too.
Michael in MI on June 7, 2008 at 9:28 PM
Time to roll up those shirtsleeves and get to work on defeating this trojan horse folks. It will take courage and perseverance but we MUST defeat this threat to the nation.
Give money, volunteer, or just tell anyone that will listen that this man MUST NOT be allowed to become POTUS.
elduende on June 7, 2008 at 9:32 PM
What is quoted above should be the narration of a McCain ad over pictures of McCain on his 8 trips to Iraq, showing the success of our military, and the Iraqis willing to die to make their country free.
JustTruth101 on June 7, 2008 at 9:33 PM
This alone is reason enough to champion McCain. Not to mention SCOTUS. I simply don’t get how certain bloggers and talk show hosts don’t get it.
AYNBLAND on June 7, 2008 at 9:34 PM
McCain, “Let Us Win”
Obama, “I will do my best so that America loses”
Chakra Hammer on June 7, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Obama is so lame on defense issues. He does not even support the new missile defense system. I think the man is a pacifist. That is not a crime or anything, but if you want to be commander in chief it might be problematic.
Terrye on June 7, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Where are all of the McCain-haters? They’re embarrassed to say anything in the face of this stark contrast.
jgapinoy on June 7, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Obama would have happily paid the British the tea tax so that we were loved by the world.He has no place leading our country.
bbz123 on June 7, 2008 at 9:41 PM
America is the world’s devil. Obama’s spiritual advisors have said as much. The spear of the devil is the U.S. military. If a military defeat of the U.S. can be enginered by Obama then the world would be saved from the devil and an era of Marxist glory can ushered in. The Donks used this strategy in Viet Nam but it failed when Marxism didn’t take root in the U.S. and collapsed around most of the world. However millions of Asians were butchered in the aftermath of the our enginered defeat in Viet Nam. We can’t let them do it again.
JonRoss on June 7, 2008 at 9:48 PM
I struck through the part you could’ve left out.
SouthernGent on June 7, 2008 at 9:49 PM
What he said.
davidk on June 7, 2008 at 9:50 PM
And that is another reason – besides political correctness and affirmative action – why he is going to be president.
America became a nation of sissies.
Can’t you see?
This nation is on its way to hit rock bottom.
This nation has no pillar to stand on except its Military.
Once it is gone, America will turn out slowly into a Third World nation and it will be her end.
The British Empire lost its military power, the Roman Empire lost its Military power and both disappeared.
We never learn from History.
Iraq exposed America.
For five years, thugs defeated the most powerful Military on Earth.
As I always say:
The American voters are one of the dumbest voters on Earth.
Vote for Hussein or McCain, it doesn’t make any difference anyway.
In both cases, it is too late, America lost.
Indy Conservative on June 7, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Gee, thanks. I feel better now.
davidk on June 7, 2008 at 9:55 PM
Honestly, I don’t think Sen. Obama — or most of his supporters — have a problem with the scenario above. In fact, I’m pretty sure they think it would be a good thing. Isn’t that the big difference between these candidates? Not which one could better execute a war strategy, but rather which one is rooting for…you know…us.
Rational Thought on June 7, 2008 at 10:00 PM
Are I one, to?
(Couldn’t resist)
jgapinoy on June 7, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Champion McCain?
And what exactly does this have to do with SCOTUS? I get the McCain is good on the war, but how does that equate to him getting originalist judges with a Dem packed Senate?
I’m no hater, but those of us less than enthusiastic about McCain agree with this point about McCain. At least I’ve stated as much, speaking for myself.
This is a big issue undoubtedly, and McCain is mostly right on it (except when it comes to Gitmo and terrorist prisoners and “torture”.
For some, it is enough – this one issue. Maybe it will be for me – I’m still wrastlin it around. For others, it obviously issn’t when coupled with his other faults.
catmman on June 7, 2008 at 10:08 PM
I’m not so sure. In a townhall-style format, when Obama says it’s a war that shouldn’t have been waged and has made us less safe, maybe McCain will turn to the audience and say that that’s naivete saying that the world would be a better place and the US more secure with Saddam and his brutal sons still in charge in Iraq and the sanctions regime long since broken.
The Left and the press have been able to define this issue for so long that it’s assumed it can forever only be seen their way. But if we’re winning, and the question of what the world would be like if we hadn’t removed Saddam is put to Barry in the right way…well, I can see him fumbling and stumbling and bumbling for a response now.
Typhoon on June 7, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Fast forward 10 years.
What would have happened if the Cap and Trade bill had not passed? There is no way to know for sure, but it seems likely that, facing more carbon emissions, Global Warming on the planet Earth would have continued to gain strength, the fragile planetary atmosphere would have collapsed, as would the fragile ice caps, huge sea levels would have flourished–and the United States would have departed under water, accepting a humiliating defeat in the war against Global Warming that would have reverberated globally.
Same hysterical the sky-is-falling show, just under a different tent.
MB4 on June 7, 2008 at 10:11 PM
True. I can handle a little stupidity and stubborness by my elected officials. I can’t handle their rooting for the enemy.
Based on Obama’s connections does anyone believe he would pass an FBI check for clearance to access national secrets ? If a prospective Secret Service agent had the same friends as Obama would they even be interviewed for the job ?
JonRoss on June 7, 2008 at 10:11 PM
It would give me infinite satisfaction to have Zell Miller punch out the lights of this Nancy-boy. Obama: Unfit to Lead (but always up for a debate).
onlineanalyst on June 7, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Yeap. Beyond that, I keep hearing a lot of folks say McCain would appoint constitutional judges. How do we know that ? What guarantees ?
JonRoss on June 7, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Juan sure seems to have some kind of crush on Hillary, so don’t rule her out as a McCain pick for the U.S. Supreme Court.
MB4 on June 7, 2008 at 10:21 PM
BUT… if only we’d listened to Obama in the first place we wouldn’t be there. That is his argument.
AbaddonsReign on June 7, 2008 at 10:21 PM
You know what this country needs is a “5 cent Vietnam war”!
/sarc off for the mentally challenged.
mred on June 7, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Yup, more evidence right here in the HA headlines. And if Teddy Kennedy, Juan’s good amigo from McCain/Kennedy, crosses over that big bridge to the sky or to wherever, maybe along with Hillary he will appoint Teddy’s wife to the court.
MB4 on June 7, 2008 at 10:26 PM
Indy Conservative,
Among other intemperate and unfounded comments, you opine:
Please, sir — if that is what you are –take your poisonous pessimism, and I might add, what amounts (above) to an essentially anti-American sentiment at that, and mentally shove it!
Some of us will put up a good fight over the next several months, using every available means at our disposal — and this here internets thing is one of ‘em — to persuade our fellow citizens of the real importance of the coming election, by engaging them in a robust debate about our future. That is the very nature of the representative democratic process.
You, sir, appear to have thrown in the towel. So, my recommendation is, either lie down by the side of the road, grumpy, or get some damn gumption quickly!
Trochilus on June 7, 2008 at 10:27 PM
What this country needs is an enema.
- Jack Napier
MB4 on June 7, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Or maybe, just maybe, McCain’s saying nice things about Hillary in order to woo her disgruntled supporters and win the election.
Just a thought.
Typhoon on June 7, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Without a doubt.
JonRoss on June 7, 2008 at 10:32 PM
So you think that he would just cynically use her and her supporters to win the election and then just betray her and them, like some kind of scorpion? I thought he would only do that to conservatives.
MB4 on June 7, 2008 at 10:35 PM
The problem is more simple. More than 50% of the people in this country receive money from Washington in some form. Why would they vote themselves out of “free money” ?
lorien1973 on June 7, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Probably some truth to this. There are a lot of Donks who are just not going to pull the lever for Obama but may need a little encouragement to go out to vote for McCain. But you never know. They are all usually lieing to most of the time anyway so who knows.
JonRoss on June 7, 2008 at 10:37 PM
Trochilus on June 7, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Awesomely stated…
Keemo on June 7, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Typhoon on June 7, 2008 at 10:31 PM
This is a great illustration:
What exactly the hell is McCain worrying about “wooing” disaffected Hilldog voters? Why in the name of Sam Rayburn isn’t he wooing disaffected Republicans and conservatives?
Is there a real belief that when the night comes, that leftist Hilldog supporters (regardless of demographic) will puch a ticket for a Republican?
Really? Seriously? You believe that? And if there are those out there, that they will outnumber those on the right who McCain has snubbed to make the votes of the Repub base irrelevant?
Would it hurt Mccain to put as much effort into solidifying the conservative base, instead of pandering to leftists/ moderates/liberals?
Follow that link in the headline section, read the accompanying article.
Why not the same vigor for the right?
catmman on June 7, 2008 at 10:40 PM
McCain WON’T appoint any originalist judges. One more and the balance changes. Then his completely UNCONSTITUTIONAL legislation: the McCain-Feingold assault on the First Amendment would be thrown out.
Johnny can’t be having his greatest success as a law maker thrown out now, can he?
LegendHasIt on June 7, 2008 at 10:42 PM
With the world’s best VOLUNTEER military. And a supporting populace
Clue me in on this. You’re not really blaming Rome’s demise on military are you? And the demise of GB’s empire was countries under their protection establishing democracy. You say demise, world says gift of Western Civ.
Really? Clue me in on who is wiser.
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 10:43 PM
McCain and Hussein are no different.
Both will not pull out the troops from Iraq once in power, as soon as they can. This is an illusion. If that is making you comfortable.
To me, it doesn’t matter pulling out or not the troops from Iraq, what matters is:
What did we learn from Iraq?
We learned that a bunch of street gangs defeated America.
And what did we do about it? NOTHING.
For five years, we kept on shipping our murdered soldiers back home and punishing those who did their job.
For five years, we had no strategy for winning. Heck, we didn’t even have a strategy at all to begin with when Bush announced the invasion.
The Military is falling apart. That is my point.
The only thing left for America to stand on is crumbling.
McCain, Hussein or Mickey Mouse will not save this country, will not save the culture of corruption, the treason of D.C., the political correctness, the cowardice of those who prefer to please the world to the detriment of their own country, the cowardice of those who fall in love with the polar bear and trees and not with their country, I can go on and on.
When a country open its borders to illegals by the millions, it is digging her grave.
No, it is not just the Military. It is everything that is wrong with America that will finish America.
Only the stupidity of American people will destroy America, not anybody or anything else.
It will not be the “United” but the “Divided” States of America.
McCain or Hussein will not save America. Both are two faces of the same coin.
Indy Conservative on June 7, 2008 at 10:46 PM
McCain started saying nice things about Hillary even before she became a Senator and joined his ‘Fraternity’. They are ‘Muy Simpatico’ in so many ways.
Saying that it is just a tricky campaign ploy to get her voters is evidence that someone hasn’t been paying attention.
LegendHasIt on June 7, 2008 at 10:46 PM
Or meet me in St. Louis for a Chinese dinner, symbolically meaning to “sit by me and chat”.
Indeed. Indy is right, that we are “dumb”, in the sense that we have lost our collective mind, which is now stationed in the American Idol, or as some have said the American Idle, status.
Indy is also right about her decline. The Roman Empire took 3000 years to fall. We’re definitely on the road, not yet to a Third Country status, but to a place somewhere between a Third World Country and where we were. It’s indeed very sad.
While I appreciate the optimism of Trochilus, McCain better wake up soon, define who he really is, and what he wants to do, put the gloves on and fight like hell, as if he only has 5 more years to live, and the life of his beloved country also depends on the outcome of this election.
This nicey, nicey with the libs is absolutely insane. This is not a golfcourse, this is a political war, with really devastating consequences.
Entelechy on June 7, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Catch up. Surged worked. Street gangs are being pushed out by American-trained Iraqi troops. Yon is your friend.
The problem with chaps like you is that you don’t understand how a Republic words. You vote people in to office, but they don’t tell you everything. You didn’t get invited to strategy meetings, you didn’t get a daily briefing. If you think Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc didn’t have a set strategy, your head is in the sand. You can argue that it was flawed, Cheney said so himself, but don’t insult the troops or the chain of command by insinuating they just walked in there like a bunch of nitwits.
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 10:51 PM
Agreed. If I ever hear the Fat Lady singing I am going to put ear plugs in. Its only over when they are shoveling dirt on you, and maybe not even then. Near my home this week we had a county sheriff’s officer murdered while on duty by a meth head. I was looking at a memorial board for him and all through it there were messages from other officers that read “Rest in Peace Brother. We will take it from here”.
JonRoss on June 7, 2008 at 10:51 PM
word=works. typo obviously
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Indy Conservative on June 7, 2008 at 10:46 PM
Indy for the next President of the United States of America!
1. Kick ass with our still wonderful Military.
2. Enforce the current laws on not hiring illegals.
3. Defend our sovereignty, including via the borders.
4. Keep taxes low.
5. Live independent and free.
6. If I hear any moping, you’ll be drafted.
7. Eat interesting food.
8. Speak freely, no matter how controversial that is.
Really, number 7. aside, I’m serious about this.
Entelechy on June 7, 2008 at 10:55 PM
g
Guarantees? Please.
Look at his record and the judges he has supported and voted to confirm, and compare these to his statements on his plans for appointments.
Jaibones on June 7, 2008 at 10:58 PM
I’m not saying McCain’s perfect. I’m not even saying it’s a good strategy. However, it isn’t entirely true that McCain hasn’t reached out to the right. His much-panned speech Tuesday was very much in the mold of Reagan. He very much positioned himself as the candidate of smaller government and individualism, and he has forcefully promised to appoint originalist judges–a promise I believe, btw, for while he’s not at all above poking the right in the eye on occasion, he is a man of honor and doesn’t give his word lightly.
Truth to tell I’m more than a little put off and dismayed by his touting of the global-warming nonsense and his refusal to drill in Anwar, but I’m more dismayed by the whiners and high-chair bangers who seem to feel if they can’t get every single thing they want, then they’ll stamp their feet and ruin the game for everyone.
Sadly they seem not to have learned from tv and their video games that in the real world of real people perfection is just never an option.
Typhoon on June 7, 2008 at 10:58 PM
Unless there are subsidies for hops and barley in Indy’s platform then I ain’t voting.
Limerick on June 7, 2008 at 11:00 PM
I’ll pick you as my Vice President.
After your comment, I can go to bed dreaming of the Presidency.
Now I have illusions of Power.
Wait a minute… Where is my mirror?
Good night Indy.
I’m so cute. I love myself so much I’m having an erection.
Indy Conservative on June 7, 2008 at 11:00 PM
You are missing the point my friend.
Perfection is not the issue. Honestly is the issue. People who don’t like him, don’t think he can be trusted. His word is not of value. If it were, conservatives would line up right behind him.
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Thats my point. All of the conservative talking heads are saying one of McCain’s good points would be his choice of judges. I don’t understand their reasoning.
JonRoss on June 7, 2008 at 11:01 PM
What this country needs, is exactly what it is going to get………
Seven Percent Solution on June 7, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Are you Bill Clinton ? Come on, fess up.
JonRoss on June 7, 2008 at 11:03 PM
This comment would mean a lot more coming from somebody that wasn’t whoring for John McCain from the beginning. You were among those deliberately out there pitting evangelicals against each other to help Rudy and McCain sneak into the nomination. You clearly fully support the effort to drive evangelicals and social conservatives out of the party. In short this is nothing but more of your propoganda in propping up a nominee who has serious issues with his own party’s base.
Guess what- it isn’t going to work. If McCain want’s the nomination he needs to prove that he reflects MY values which includes anti-immigration, social conservatism, fiscal conservatism, and an agenda that furthers the above. I will not vote for McCain if he continues in the vein of being a Bloomberg “Republican.”
P.S There must be something more to your personality and viewpoint than what you present on this site for MKH to make such kind comments about you but all I see a bitter hate-filled liberal who is chomping at the bit to vote in McCain and get revenge on all of us social conservatives.
highhopes on June 7, 2008 at 11:04 PM
http://www.johnmccain.com/strategybriefing/
bnelson44 on June 7, 2008 at 11:04 PM
The United States had to overthrow a brutal regime thousands of miles away, setup a government, restore the peace, rebuild the infrastructure, setup a military and police force, establish a court system, create a stock market, make a civil society, imprison the leaders of the regime, setup a constitution, defeat maniacal terrorists were engaged in suicide bombing of unprecedented levels all while the entire world’s press was watching every move she made.
No other country in the history of mankind could have pulled off such an undertaking.
The complainers here – the same usual crowd – have nothing to offer but bitterness and complaints and moanings.
Admittedly, they’re good at it.
SteveMG on June 7, 2008 at 11:04 PM
The only thing left for America to stand on is crumbling!
Indy Conservative on June 7,2008 at 10:46PM.
Indy Conservative: Indy,I’m still on the border,waiten for
ya,and guarding again any of those
Liberal Hollywood types trying to sneak
up here!
Hey,Indy its gonna get better,I can feel
it!
And I’m still waiting for my gallon
of Camel pee!
canopfor on June 7, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Besides that, Ted Olson has vetted McCain on that issue.
onlineanalyst on June 7, 2008 at 11:08 PM
I’ll bring the camel pee myself, and some goat milk. I gotta go visit my relatives in Canada some day.
Nighty night!
Indy Conservative on June 7, 2008 at 11:09 PM
I don’t really see that here. I can’t think of many issues where McCain has made promises he hasn’t tried to keep. Listen, I swore I would never ever vote for the guy because of McCain-Feingold, and now I already have once and no doubt will again.
Over the years he’s been about as forthright as any politician I can recall–with the exception of Reagan–it’s just that many times I haven’t agreed with him. And the fact is that’s what I see here. I see people who disagree with him on issues that certainly aren’t of no substance, and if I went down the line on all of them most likely I’d agree on all.
There also seems to be a need here to see him take after Obama more personally aggressively, and to not reach out to Hillary’s supporters, and I myself think that overall as a strategy that will work, he’s right and that idea is wrong. I suspect that the vast middle of the country is tired of name-calling and hatred in politics, and McCain’s got his finger on the pulse of something there.
But the question was why hasn’t he reached out to the right? And he has, particularly on the issue of judges.
Of course I can’t make anyone believe him, but I do, just as I believe Barry when he says he will appoint judges who share his empathy for the poor, the black, the downtrodden and the gay.
Typhoon on June 7, 2008 at 11:14 PM
He very much positioned himself as the candidate of smaller government and individualism…
Truth to tell I’m more than a little put off and dismayed by his touting of the global-warming nonsense and his refusal to drill in Anwar.
Typhoon on June 7, 2008 at 10:58 PM
This very issue you bring up illustrates McCain’s duplicity. You CANNOT be for small government and individualism and be FOR somehting like the Warner-Lieberman “Climate Change Security Act”.
This is exactly the biggest problem I have with the guy – he SAYS one thing (as in the speech you site), and DOES the exact opposite (support such draconian expansive taxation/government control measures.)
And I’m still not sold on the judge issue. To me it’s as simple as this: What is JM more apt to do – appoint a strict originalist judge and fight the Dem Senators tooth and nail, or “compromise” with the Dem Senate and appoint a more “moderate” judge? Again to me, his past actions speak for themselves. He was more willing to work with the Dems on judges (Gang of 14), than fight the Repubs.
catmman on June 7, 2008 at 11:15 PM
I have to say something here before going to bed.
Since when the U.S. had the obligation to destroy then to rebuild nations? Assuming there was a very good reason to destroy and invade them, why doing it without planning?
Iraq was not World War I or II. This was not Hitler invading Europe and threatening America’s interests around the world.
Don’t answer please. No answer will satisfy me. I know I am right and now I am going to bed.
Thank you and good night.
Indy Conservative on June 7, 2008 at 11:15 PM
If anyone feels the need to give…..
http://armyaunt.johnmccain.com/
ArmyAunt on June 7, 2008 at 11:18 PM
Zell for VP!
MrLynn on June 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Typhoon on June 7, 2008 at 11:14 PM
I don’t have issue with his election strategy, and pardon me, I wasn’t trying to comment on the issue of judges. I don’t know what he’d do there; I imagine it would be Roberts types.
I was merely trying to explain why he has issues. He does. And it’s because the right sees him as wholly unreliable on key issues (other than pro-life I expect). That’s part of the result of the amnesty debacle and then subsequent “I heard you” town-halls’ then visits to La Raza (but I wasn’t listening) and buddy-buddy w/ J.Hernandez. That makes him seem highly untrustworthy. My analysis, not trying to sell the idea – that just what appears to me to the be the case of McCain vs. Conservatives.
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM
I believe I would rather slam a portion of my anatomy in a sliding glass door than give a penny to John McCain. I believe I’d rather give my money to Obama than the extremely untrustworthy John McCain.
Snake307 on June 7, 2008 at 11:22 PM
You don’t understand the difference between no plan and a plan failing or having shortcomings.
Irrelevant now. You are condemning what you perceive as a lack of planning and are unwilling to apply yourself to a plan now. You’re like a hypochondriac that won’t help himself, but has plenty of energy to make sure everyone hears you moan.
Yes. Exactly. The self-satisfaction of the rigid mind. Unassailable by logic. Unassailable by even self-observation. Every data point is filter into a pre-determined outcome. America = fail. Where have I heard that before Michael Moore?
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM
I think you sum it up well SO76.
It is hard for me to reconcile his “honor” (not to be disrespectful) with his trustworthiness, his “word”.
It’s easy to say “I take the guy at his word”, but when that word has time and again proven less than reliable, hence the problem.
It calls everything he says into question and we are left to guess just what exactly he will do.
McCain may indeed be better than Obambi, but for me personally, it’s hard to vote on a crap shoot…
catmman on June 7, 2008 at 11:26 PM
McCain is mediocre, but Obama is abominable.
One is like a semi-junker car that you can fix, they other is like a rocket sled running perfectly… over a cliff.
I’ll take something semi-republican (small r), that I might be able to steer some, over a guaranteed unswervable trip into crypto-marxist disaster.
Americans tend to fall into stupors when times are easy.
9/11 woke most people, for a few months at least, with existential dread, but the returning comfort of no further terrorist attacks (or even serious threats) allowed the conspiratorially-bent pananoid morons and politically-partisan uber-weasels and militant socialist-anarchist pacifist suckers to re-emerge with a new whipping boy (Bushitler) and stalking horses (Trutherism, etc.) to continue their effort to undermine and destroy America.
Obama fits into this category perfectly.
He is the long-awaited deliverer of the bile-filled cranks, the answer to all America Last! lunacy and the final solution to the U.S. is the real Imperialist Nation self-loathing.
How well the nation rejects this spiritual and historical poison will determine our future.
profitsbeard on June 7, 2008 at 11:27 PM
I propose a televised town hall debate in Baghdad!
faraway on June 7, 2008 at 11:30 PM
I agree. I’m favorable disposed to (I hope) everyone, but I definitely go through life with my eyes open. Ie I was disposed to like JM and the fact that I don’t trust him now, means something to me because I know me.
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 11:31 PM
You took my answer (part of it).
Anyway, the type of regime we leave behind in Iraq will have, in my opinion, tremendous consequences on our interests in the region.
The argument that Iraq is a Shi’a dominated country and therefore couldn’t be run or dominated by the Sunnis and al-Qaeda ignores the fact, of course, that Iraq was indeed run by the Sunnis for decades.
Not to mention the moral obligations we have to try and prevent the mass slaughter of the Iraqi people by al-Qaeda (remember them?) and others.
We have no moral obligation to intervent solely to prevent genocide; but I think we have an obligation, once we are in a country, not to allow it to happen by just leaving.
Surrendering Iraq to al-Qaeda never made much sense to me.
SteveMG on June 7, 2008 at 11:31 PM
It’s a judgment thing.
Kafir on June 7, 2008 at 11:31 PM
good comment
funky chicken on June 7, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Steve MG-
Once you have blundered into a fight, you have to thoroughly beat your way out of it, or get beat.
Giving brutal thugs any encouragement by showing them weakness only gurantees more dangerous thugs as a result of your indecision.
Whatever the mistakes, at least kick ass.
Lunatics (and their many anti-American allies in the world, the turncoat media, et al) may not like you for it, but they will not mess with you because of it.
profitsbeard on June 7, 2008 at 11:35 PM
So the question is, what qualifies a person to be Commander in Chef? Experience, Judgment and Accomplishments or Charisma?
chip91 on June 7, 2008 at 11:35 PM
“There can only be one”
For America’s future and secruity,McCain stays on point,
Irag was turned around,the surge worked,but the left
were busy hand-wringing!
This isn’t the first time,it won’t be the last,Iran’s on
the radar,America went through WW1,and stopped Japan and
Germany in World War Two!
Very dark days were ahead before either country surrenderd
unconditionally,and now Germany and Japan are friends and
allies to America!
The main difference,is that Liberal cowards didn’t openly
display their contempt for America,or besmirch America as
they do now!
In General Pattons Famous Speech,he says do not allow cowards return to America,for they will breed more cowards!
And General Patton was right,thats the situation now,a
Global War on Terror were one side is been represented
by Barack Obama,a whole generation of peace loving at all
costs,we want to look so good in the eyes of the World,
girly men!
What if,British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain was the
Leader of the Free World,just imagine the nightmarish world
we would live in,
that is a world of America’s future with Obama at the helm!
canopfor on June 7, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Plus, you know, America doesn’t have an empire. It’s a country, if it “collapses” it certainly wouldn’t happen in the same way (and definitely not as easily/quickly as an empire would).
MattMacD on June 7, 2008 at 11:41 PM
It seems to me – from everything that I’ve read – that in that part of the world (because of cultural and historic reasons) – that your statement is particularly true.
Part of the overall defeat of the Islamists is repeated victories by us on the battlefield. There’s no other substitute.
And allowing them to drive us out of Iraq would have been disastrous. For us and the Iraqis.
SteveMG on June 7, 2008 at 11:44 PM
Did you all ever stop to think that if it weren’t for you ‘hold your nosers’ that the Party might step in at the last minute and put someone that is at least slightly acceptable to at least half the party core? I mean, McCain is not REALLY the nominee until the people running the Convention say he is.
If they (the Party bigwigs) didn’t figure that most everyone would eventually fall in line and vote for the “we suck less than the other guys” due to fear of Obama and ‘Osama’ we COULD get a last minute ’savior’.
I know, I know; that is as likely as ALL of us MDS sufferers winning Powerball AND being struck by lightening between now and November. But it is within the realm of possibility, if not probability.
But we will never know, because ‘hold your nose and vote’ has become the only thing that has sustained the GOP for 32 of the last 40 years. And it will no doubt be the inscription on the headstone on the grave of America in 2010.
LegendHasIt on June 7, 2008 at 11:48 PM
No it doesn’t have an empire but it has a non-empire comprising bases in hundreds of countries so its status could be impacted by external events.
aengus on June 7, 2008 at 11:48 PM
I can think of a better substitut: Deportation.
aengus on June 7, 2008 at 11:49 PM
I take you point. But don’t tell Ron Paul. I kid, I kid.
Seriously, on reflection I think it (comment) was just a ‘throw the spaghetti against the wall and see if it sticks’ statement. I mean what great military disaster occurred to GB? And her legacy is remarkable. And Rome effectively split itself up before she fell.
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Plus,you know,America doesn’t have an empire.
MattMacD on June 7,2008 at 11:41PM.
MattMacD: This isn’t directed at you,But if I hear
one more moronic idiotic”EMPIRE” comments
which is every second word out of Ron Paul!
Empire is used as “We wish America was doomed,
or would end”,this is the sick attitude some
leftys hold,as if America was the problem!
And if the Empire was over,the World would
achieve Utopian peace!
This comes from the gutless sheep!
canopfor on June 7, 2008 at 11:53 PM
But what is the total number of troops that we have stationed abroad?
Less than 300,000? Out of a total of 300 million people?
And as a country we are spending about 5% of GDP on defense.
When we think of empires we think of countries diverting 40-50% and more of their resources to maintaining their acquisitions. Vast armies spread out around the world.
America is nowhere near the historic standard, it seems to me, of previous empires.
SteveMG on June 7, 2008 at 11:53 PM
.
Well, that is Europe’s problem more than ours.
Although, I guess, it’ll eventually be ours too.
SteveMG on June 7, 2008 at 11:55 PM
The beauty of the whole ‘empire’ thing is that Paul’s idol himself did refer to America as an empire. Jefferson saw America as an ‘empire of liberty’ – he didn’t think of it as a bad word! But don’t tell Paul, it might hurt the integrity of his message.
Spirit of 1776 on June 7, 2008 at 11:55 PM
highhopes,
Allah didn’t write that quote. It’s from the Weekly Standard. Also, Allah may be a disgruntled Republican (also known as a “darkworker), but he is hardly a liberal.
The notion that Allah was all into McCain from the beginning is funny. I think I was the ONLY one into McCain from the beginning and I’m still feeling pretty lonely.
To all other anti-McCain commenters,
I am about tired of the bashing of McCain. We get it. You don’t like him. We get it. You won’t vote for him. That is is your right. If what you know about Obama doesn’t force into the voting booth for McCain, then nothing will. But constant reminders of all that makes you angry about McCain is unproductive. He is the nominee. Take him or leave him, but the discussion from here on end will be about who we want to lead the country, McCain or Obama.
Let’s finally get to that.
Rightwingsparkle on June 8, 2008 at 12:02 AM
Well I haven’t a clue about the numbers or expenditure but when I called America a non-empire I wasn’t being sarcastic. The US is not an empire, but it is certainly an imperium and by historical standards the most benign imperium on earth.
aengus on June 8, 2008 at 12:03 AM
Then don’t read it.
Ma’am, you are in error :)
It is productive in two ways. It puts the issues the base has on the record – so it serves a political function, and it’s part of the coping process – so it serves a personal function. If you keep people from being honest and discussing his merits, at the end of the day you will decrease the number of people who will end up voting for him because their resentment will never be expressed. Consequently it will be expressed by default in Nov.
Spirit of 1776 on June 8, 2008 at 12:06 AM
I think it’s been expressed.
Over and over and over.
Rightwingsparkle on June 8, 2008 at 12:10 AM
The beauty…
Spirit of 1776 on June 7,2008 at 11:55PM.
Spirit of 1776: Ya no kidding,someone needs to come
out with a version of a Liberal Thesaurus!
That way,look up empire*,or surrender,and
you’ll get twenty different meanings a la
Liberal mindset!
*(canopfor knows that Ron Paul is a Republican
and regrets the thesaurus empire thingy and
possible besmirchment of Ron Paul)Haha. :)
canopfor on June 8, 2008 at 12:11 AM
I suggest you don’t think so monolithically. You think it has been expressed because you have been on his wagon since the beginning. You are standing at the finish-line impatient for the other runners.
For the rest of non-McCain voters, it’s riding waves. If he were stable, it’d be a short trip to the beach. But he makes the waters choppy with his La Raza visits and his ‘I heart J. Hernandez’ stuff. If you are in the H.Reid mood – all super delegates decide now! – you are going to lose a lot of people you are going to want in Nov.
Haha! Loved the disclaimer.
Spirit of 1776 on June 8, 2008 at 12:16 AM
I’m arguing the same thing over at Ace’s and I’ll say it here.
It’s like this. I could sit here all day trying to convince you guys why you should vote for McCain and you could remind me all day of all things he has done wrong.
But the bottom line is we either help this man win or by doing nothing we help Obama win.
It’s that simple.
Rightwingsparkle on June 8, 2008 at 12:24 AM
It sure is. Now you can choose to be part of that process, or you can try to short-circuit it. If you just try to short-circuit it because you are impatient, you will automatically fail.
Do whatever you want, it won’t change the necessity of the process.
Spirit of 1776 on June 8, 2008 at 12:27 AM
Does this mean you want me to continue to convince you of why you should vote for McCain???
I’d be happy too!!!
;-)
Rightwingsparkle on June 8, 2008 at 12:29 AM
There is only one reason to vote for McCain. He isn’t Obama.
I’m merely saying you should let the conversation take it’s course if you want it to come to the conclusion you want.
Spirit of 1776 on June 8, 2008 at 12:34 AM
I’ll start here.
And then I’ll go here.
And here.
And let’s don’t forget 2013!
I’m just getting started!
Rightwingsparkle on June 8, 2008 at 12:34 AM
HAHA loved the disclaimer,
Spirit of 1776 on June 8,at 12:16PM.
Spirit of 1776: If Obama gets in,heres a laugh!
The Winds of Sh!t,enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQufxG1GcAk&feature=related
canopfor on June 8, 2008 at 12:38 AM
Comment pages: 1 2 3 Next »