take care.

Squid Shark on June 5, 2008 at 11:53 AM

Sorry, I thought you were talking about me since that is the classy phrase you use to describe me as well.

right4life on June 5, 2008 at 11:43 AM

Completely ignoring everything I am saying…

he is. he blames christianity for naziism. while of course ignoring the whole darwinist/eugenics side of naziism.

A flat out lie, you lying nutjob :)

Seems we all are, touche, there is no defense to that!

he is. he blames christianity for naziism. while of course ignoring the whole darwinist/eugenics side of naziism.

read the whole article, you probably won’t find a better one describing the relation of the church to hitler.

I’m not the only one who thinks so apparently…

This article questions Richard Steigmann-Gall’s claim that leading National Socialists were essentially ‘Christian’ and that neo-pagan ideas played an insignificant role in the ideology of nazism.

http://jch.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/42/1/59

I am not and have not ever discounted the role of the good christians and others (even a few Muslims in the Balkans as I recall) who fought the Nazis.

and Richard Steigmann-Gall is an anti-christian nut-job.

Seems we all are, touche, there is no defense to that!

the world’s most famous scientist, Albert Einstein. Says he:

“Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks. . . .

“Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.”

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,765103-1,00.html

However, the use of Luther by Nazis to justify their BS is still quite prevalent. I tried to stick to clericals as requested.

I will admit that luther used anti-semitism, and that Hitler used Luther. but to call someone in the Deutsche Christen movement a ‘prominent protestant’ is unbelievable.

this isn’t a christian denomination, rather a nazi political movement to hijack christianity.

The Deutsche Christen, or German Christian Church which integrated and redefined traditional Christianity to include and align with the Third Reich. The doctrines of the Deutsche Christen were meant to replace centuries old doctrine. Many of the beliefs were anti-Semitic and defined as heresy. Christ was re-interpreted as the Nietzchean ’superman’, an Aryan of the highest order and not a Jew

http://www.shoaheducation.com/deutschechristen.html

Your links would seem to reenforce my assertion…

The rapture makes this not you problem? Correct or no?

only in your deluded mind.

uh what happens to Israel is not my problem no. since I am not a citizen of that country.

whether the rapture happens or not, whatever its timing is, there is nothing I can do about what happens to Israel. and no it is not ‘my’ problem.

if you are really upset by the prophecies of what happens to Israel, perhaps you should talk to Jesus who gave them.

so whether israel exists, or not, doesn’t matter to the rapture of the church

Clearly I am misreading this statement.

Wikipedia, its almost like having no source at all.

Fair enough…

uhhh I used far more than wikpedia…

and Richard Steigmann-Gall is an anti-christian nut-job.

absolute lie. you really are a lying nut job.

you were responding to the following:

Your links would seem to reenforce my assertion…

The rapture makes this not you problem? Correct or no?

right4life on June 5, 2008 at 11:01 AM

BTW, is your name Dr. Gannon, I feel like you are my thesis advisor…

“Where is the source!”

Just messing around, trying to lighten up a little… :)

Taken completely out of context, of course,

now you’re lying….

right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Even better, all of the Christians leave the Isreal the “love” so much to be betrayed and destroyed by the anti-Christ.

Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:10 AM

You were trying to use the Rapture as the reason for it being OK to support Israel, knowing it will be destroyed in the end-times.

absolute lie. you really are a lying nut job.

you were responding to the following:

oh and most of the christians who believe israel still has a place to play in God’s plans, believe christians will be raptured before the tribulation.

so whether israel exists, or not, doesn’t matter to the rapture of the church

this notion that somehow christians are in some kind of ‘conspiracy’ to manipulate world events to force armageddon is crazy. dailykos kind of crazy.

right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM

protestant’ huh??? please.

Wikipedia, its almost like having no source at all.

Fair enough…

However, the use of Luther by Nazis to justify their BS is still quite prevalent. I tried to stick to clericals as requested.

Bishop Martin Sasse published a compendium of Martin Luther’s antisemitic statements right after Kristallnacht’s violence

interesting that you would provide no link for that article…

what you left out is:

According to Daniel Goldhagen, Bishop Martin Sasse, a leading Protestant churchman, published a compendium Luther’s writings shortly after Kristallnacht

I don’t think Goldhagen’s scholarship can stand up though…

Now, in A Nation on Trial , two leading critics challenge Goldhagen’s findings. With devastating cumulative effect, Norman G. Finkelstein meticulously documents Goldhagen’s misrepresentations of secondary literature and the internal contradictions of his argument. In a complimentary essay, Ruth Bettina Birn juxtaposes Goldhagen’s text against the German archives he consulted. The foremost international authority on these archives, Birn argues that Goldhagen systematically misrepresented their contents. First published in the New Left Review and the Cambridge Historical Journal , these two landmark essays have already provoked intense debate both here and abroad.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=2

and its interesting that you and goldhagen would refer to him as ‘protestant’ but no put in his denomination.

Typical Deutsche Christen bishop is Dr. Martin Sasse of Thuringia

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,765103-4,00.html

The German Christian (Deutsche Christen) pressure group was formed in May 1932 within the German Evangelical Church[1] and led by Ludwig Müller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Christians

‘protestant’ huh??? please.

hagee is convenient punching bag, but we could get into an entire discussion of about whether what Hitler did, or any other atrocity is part of God’s plan, or outside His will, or allowed by God.

right4life on June 5, 2008 at 10:44 AM

Hagee is by far the most popular and visible “Apocalype” Preacher, he is not a punching bag, he is the best example due to the sheer volume of available material.

Even better, all of the Christians leave the Isreal the “love” so much to be betrayed and destroyed by the anti-Christ.
right4life on June 5, 2008 at 10:45 AM

Taken completely out of context, of course, You were trying to use the Rapture as the reason for it being OK to support Israel, knowing it will be destroyed in the end-times.

This was meant to disarm that argument. I dont believe in the Rapture, so it does not mean anything to me because I dont think it will happen, but you wanted to use it as a cop-out, saying that you couldnt do anything about Israel being betrayed because you wouldnt be here…

Not you problem, right…Or did I misunderstand?

right4life on June 5, 2008 at 10:21 AM

Bishop Martin Sasse published a compendium of Martin Luther’s antisemitic statements right after Kristallnacht’s violence. In the foreword to the volume, he applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day: ‘On November 10, 1938, on Luther’s birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany.’ The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words ‘of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews.’”

Erich Koch, the Reich Commissioner for Ukraine and President of the East Prussian Protestant Church Synod wrote:

Only we can enter into Luther’s spirit…. Human cults do not set us free from all sin, but faith alone. With us the church shall become a serving member of the state…. There is a deep sense that our celebration is not attended by superficiality, but rather by thanks to a man who saved German cultural values.
-Konigsberg-Hartungsche Zeitung, 20 Nov. 1933, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

Hans Schemm became Bavarian Minister of Education and Culture. Throughout the Reich, Germans particularly knew Schemm for his slogan, “Our religion is Christ, our politics Fatherland!” He writes:

His engagement against the decomposing Jewish spirit is clearly evident not only from his writing against the Jews; his life too was idealistically, philosophically antisemitic. Now we Germans of today have the duty to recognize and acknowledge this.
-”Luther und das Deutschtum,” Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf (19 Nov. 1933: Berlin), [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

Our confession to God is a confession of a doctrine of totality…. To give ultimate significance to the totalities of race, resistance and personality there is added the supreme totalitarian slogan of our Volk: “Religion and God.” God is the greatest totality and extends over all else.
-(Gertrud Kahl-Furthmann (ed.), Hans Schemm spricht: Seine Reden und sein Werk (Bayreuth, 1935), [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

How about you apologize for you unacceptable statement that I hate Christians…

I absolutely will if you disavow the following:

Even better, all of the Christians leave the Isreal the “love” so much to be betrayed and destroyed by the anti-Christ.

Watching Hagee enough will leave you with a pretty good impression. Ending his Apocalyptic sermons with phrases like “This is why support for Israel is so important!” goes to the heart of the matter IMHO…

so supporting Israel becaue you believe they have a place in God’s plan for the apocalypse is ‘patronizing’

but believing they have a place in God’s plan because of any other reason than the apocalypse is not..

uh yeah…

ps: hagee is convenient punching bag, but we could get into an entire discussion of about whether what Hitler did, or any other atrocity is part of God’s plan, or outside His will, or allowed by God.

you’re a typical left-wing wacko, throw out accusations, then when called on it, run onto the next topic.

amusing, but predictable.

right4life on June 5, 2008 at 10:25 AM

I will admit when I am wrong (see above). How about you apologize for you unacceptable statement that I hate Christians…

first, how do you know that? and even if its true, why is that patronizing?

I explained why it is patronizing…

It is not indicative of all evangelicals…I sincerely apologize for that generalization.

Watching Hagee enough will leave you with a pretty good impression. Ending his Apocalyptic sermons with phrases like “This is why support for Israel is so important!” goes to the heart of the matter IMHO…