Obama pivots on Iran?
posted at 9:07 am on June 4, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Barack Obama will make an appearance today at the AIPAC conference, attempting to convince the pro-Israeli lobby that he fully supports Israel and stands against her enemies. That will take a nifty bit of pivoting, as Danielle Pletka notes in today’s Weekly Standard. On Iran, he has managed to get to Dick Durbin’s left in opposing an amendment that urged the State Department to name Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps a terrorist organization, which passed despite Obama’s objections:
The story begins nine months ago, when the Senate took up debate on the so-called Kyl-Lieberman amendment–a bipartisan measure that urged the U.S. government to designate Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) as a Foreign Terrorist Organization and a Specially Designated Global Terrorist.
These designations are more than just rhetorical; labeling the IRGC as a terrorist organization brings to bear a range of powerful sanctions that crack down on its ability to work in the global financial system.
The proximate cause of the Kyl-Lieberman amendment was a growing dossier of evidence from General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker, documenting the IRGC’s role in financing, training, arming, and directing extremists in Iraq responsible for the murder of hundreds of American and Iraqi soldiers and civilians.
Of course, that’s not the full extent of the IRGC’s malign influence. The group is an acknowledged supporter of terror (a fact even Senator Obama concedes), training, financing and arming Hezbollah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and most recently, the Taliban. At home in Iran, the IRGC now dominates the regime, with 9 out of 21 seats in the Ahmadinejad cabinet held by former IRGC and IRGC-affiliated officials. The IRGC is also a vital player in Iran’s licit and illicit economies, and dominates important sectors like construction.
Needless to say, the Kyl-Lieberman amendment won broad support in the Senate, passing 76-22. Senator Hillary Clinton voted for it, as did Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Senator Chuck Schumer, and Senator Dick Durbin.
Senator Obama, however, was one of a handful of senators who opposed the amendment–which had aroused the ire of the left-wing blogosphere. In the frenzied minds of DailyKos and Moveon.org, Kyl-Lieberman–or “Lieberman-Kyl,” as they preferred to call it–was nothing less than a stealth declaration of war on Iran.
The offending clause (a non-binding Sense of the Senate) suggests that the U.S. military presence in Iraq “will have critical long-term consequences for the future of the Persian Gulf.” It emphatically does not suggest either that we “use our military presence in Iraq to counter the threat from Iran,” as Senator Obama’s website falsely claims, or that “we should maintain our forces in Iraq with an eye toward blunting Iranian influence,” as Senator Obama frets.
That reading of the amendment is incomprehensible to most, including Durbin, the senior senator from Illinois and one of Obama’s chief supporters. “It’s rare that Barack and I disagree on an issue of this magnitude,” Durbin told Bloomberg Television at the time. “I have the same concerns that Barack Obama does about this administration and what they might do with the power that they have. But I don’t think this resolution gives them a green light to do anything.”
This misreading of the amendment speaks to a larger, deliberate obtuseness on Obama’s part. The Iranians are the largest sponsor of international terrorism in the world, and the evidence of this is both public and large. In order to fight terrorism, we need to at least honestly acknowledge Iran’s role in it and take steps to limit it. Kyl-Lieberman attempted to do just that in a non-violent manner, working through other options intended to limit their ability to fund terror groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.
There are only two reasons to oppose the application of sanctions on Iran. Either one wants to go to war and skip all of the other options, or doesn’t believe Iran to be a threat and a sponsor of terror. Into which group should we put Barack Obama?
I think we can safely say that he belongs in the latter group. During the campaign, Obama attacked Hillary repeatedly for her vote on Kyl-Lieberman, and he undoubtedly will do the same with McCain. He famously intoned that Iran wasn’t a threat in Oregon, a position he abandoned 24 hours later when this YouTube hit the blogosphere:
The people at AIPAC suffer no such delusions. Iran uses its proxies to fight a continuous war against Israel and Western interests in the region. Asymmetrical threats don’t rely on size or even a lot of cash, but on infiltration and terrorism. Obama’s refusal to hold Iran accountable even in a non-violent manner doesn’t bode well for his stewardship of foreign policy in an age of terrorism, and AIPAC knows that.Watch Obama attempt to pivot today in his speech. Suddenly he will talk about the “grave threat” emanating from Tehran and attempt to convince his audience that he is tough enough to face down the mullahs. Obama couldn’t even face down MoveOn when it came time to apply tough sanctions against the terrorist-management structure in Iran.
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He cannot wipe away his history of hanging out with Israel haters.
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 9:12 AM
He is not to be trusted.
CP on June 4, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Will he use a Yiddish accent?
JiangxiDad on June 4, 2008 at 9:17 AM
A recent survey of American military officers ranked Iran as the number one beneficiary of the war in Iraq (followed by China). Iran’s clout and power in the region has surged following the fall of the Iraqi Sunnis, a fact that even Nancy Pelosi surprisingly appears to understand. But for those who supported the war, why whine so much about Iran? It’s filling a vacuum and there’s not much the US can do about it. Get over it.
The falling dollar, spiraling energy costs, and massive budget and trade deficits (increasingly with the oil producing states) are much greater threats to this country over the long-term. US power is fundamentally based on economic might.
bayam on June 4, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Yet, he continues to receive strong support from Jewish groups across the country. I just don’t get it.
Syd B. on June 4, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Anecdotally, it’s wavering. I heard some guy on TV say that 30% of Jews now leaning towards McCain. I don’t think McCain will lose the Jewish vote unless he picks an evangelical Christian as his running mate– or so I’ve been told.
JiangxiDad on June 4, 2008 at 9:20 AM
That should be all the jewish vote.
JiangxiDad on June 4, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Since obama is the ’savior’ to so many in this country, I wonder if ahmadinejad will consider him the Mahdi?
once he becomes president, the iranians know we will do nothing to protect israel….and the Ezekial option
will happen.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Dude you better shut-up right now and write that book. You will be rich!
JiangxiDad on June 4, 2008 at 9:22 AM
Many place social liberalism as more important than doing the right thing.
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 9:22 AM
I was out at the Freeper counter-protest of the Code Pink anti-war protest at Walter Reed Army Medical Center a few Fridays ago. One of the people there was the father of a soldier who had been grievously wounded by an IED. It was a shaped charge, made in Iran, that blew a jet of molten metal through his son’s thigh.
Was Iran a threat to him, Obama?
Tantor on June 4, 2008 at 9:23 AM
its already been written… :)
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 9:24 AM
Did he vote against it, or did he vote “present”?
drjohn on June 4, 2008 at 9:24 AM
you don’t understand…iran is just ‘misunderstood’…its really all the fault of the US for not ‘caring’ enough about the poor and downtrodden.
it we didn’t have a racist, sexist, zionist, homophobic foreign policy and president, the iranians would be our friends….we submit…
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 9:26 AM
LOL
drjohn on June 4, 2008 at 9:27 AM
What an overmatched, lying little scumbag.
Jaibones on June 4, 2008 at 9:28 AM
The lefties own ‘Never Again!’ and Barak’s long world view of American military power…..
U.S. Cavalry
To them this trumps anything the Israelis might be concerned about.
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 9:34 AM
Obama will tell Israel they are not to fear Syria and Iran………
.
.
For they are but small countries on a big map.
.
.
His 3rd grade teacher will be sooooooo proud.
.
.
subbottomfeeder on June 4, 2008 at 9:35 AM
Obama even repeated the lie of “100 years in Iraq”; a deliberate misrepresentation if there ever was one…and he just keeps repeating it! This, too, is not change.
Richard Romano on June 4, 2008 at 9:35 AM
exactly how did this guy get this far again?
trailortrash on June 4, 2008 at 9:39 AM
New agreement lets US strike any country from inside Iraq
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 9:40 AM
There it is again. That magical code word for crazy, loonatic, fringe, fundamentalist, Christianist.
If you ‘think’ that, what makes it so? Do you think it might bother people that McCain IS an ‘evangelical Christian’?
I guess that rhetoric is the easiest way for people to show their prejudices. Just because all the previous presidents in history but one were ‘evangelical Christians’ doesn’t mean it is a ‘good thing’.
You must really like Obama jianxi. Now that he’s quit his church, he’s ready to go back to his faith of birth and become a Muslim. You must think ‘change’ is a good thing too. We must rid our government of the scourge of the mythical ‘evangelical Christian’ because though they built this country, they’ll be the death of us ALL.
ThackerAgency on June 4, 2008 at 9:41 AM
This was one of the few very deliberate votes Barack Obama has made as a Senator. And John McCain should make him answer for it, again and again. That and his vote against the confirmation of John Roberts tell us all we need to know about him.
rockmom on June 4, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Perhaps he could borrow HILL’S New York JEWISH ACCENT!!! Any JEW that would vote for this empty suit should seriously loo at where their priorities lay…
pueblo1032 on June 4, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Read what he says in the speech, then compare to the interpetation by the MSM. Nothing will be said about his vote opposing the amendment; the media will use the opportunity to boost his tough new credentials after the speech. The lefty blogs may squeal a bit, but they aren’t the target audience now, the media has to help him with the center.
a capella on June 4, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Let me repeat for all you McCain supporters who hate ‘evangelical Christians’. McCain IS an evangelical Christian. Will that turn your support against him? I know his policy positions won’t turn you against him (as liberal as they are).
ThackerAgency on June 4, 2008 at 9:44 AM
I think I’m truly shaken by that.
Please let me go back to my vegetative state.
Saltysam on June 4, 2008 at 9:44 AM
I have the last few days viewed a number of the various panel discussions & meetings presented at the AIPAC conference this year, and let me say that the mood, the feeling, the questions posed by declared committed Democracts in the rooms there is palpable.
Obama (by extension the 25% far left driving his campaign) may be losing the historical democratic Jewish vote if AIPAC is anything to go by, no one, not even the littlelest old jewish ladies (Gd bless them) is fooled for an instant by Obama. His policies have been getting hammered at the conference, now that hillary is out I see a serious swing in the historic Jewish liberal vote this upcoming election, I say maybe up to 50/50 from what is normally about 75-80/20-2.
Also no one talks about it openly to the media, but there is an obvious alarm at the prospect of an obama presidency here in Israel and it does not stop at the conservative liberal divide by any means.. it goes DEEP into liberal left Israeli territory.
saus on June 4, 2008 at 9:45 AM
he is??? could have fooled me…
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 9:46 AM
One final point. NO GROUP of people are more pro-Israel than ‘evangelical Christians’. Certainly Catholics are not more pro-Israel with the rhetoric coming out of the Vatican.
well right, what is the definition of ‘evangelical Christian’? If it is any Protestant - which seems to be the going definition, then if McCain is Christian and not Protestant, then he’d have to be ‘evangelical’ by definition. The problem is that there is no definition. It is a term bandied about whenever someone wants to bash Christians as though they were ‘jihadis’.
ThackerAgency on June 4, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Until the Israelis decide Israel is worth fighting for, I’m not sure what the rest of us can do. Sure, the ‘progressive’ wing of the Neocommunist movement is tight in the drawers thinking about dead Jews, nobody moreso than Obama’s friends in the NOI, other than his friends in Iran, or his church. But even allegedly moderate liberals are contemplating the end of Israel. The PM said they’re sick and tired of defeating their enemies. In that part of the world it’s tantamount to swallowing a pistol barrel.
Our State Department is pro-jihad Islamic supremacist now, like the EU, UK, UN, and commercial lending industries before them. How do you solve a problem like sharia? Adopt it, dhimmi!
Good news: we’re surrendering to fascists en masse to avoid the fighting: brilliant!
Beagle on June 4, 2008 at 9:50 AM
Where the hell did that come from?
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 9:52 AM
As well it should. Obama represents very difficult times, if not suvival concerns, for Israel if elected. Do you have any relative figures on the Jewish U.S. vote vs the black vote?
a capella on June 4, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Thacker Agency, conservative Jews are well aware of Christian support. Unfortunately, there is a Jewish faction that is horrified by the idea that Christians “may” attempt to convert them and that tends to override gratitude for Christian support of Israel in some cases.
JiangxiDad did not make a judgmental statement. He made a factual one.
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 9:56 AM
I am one of those officers, Iran was trouble before Iraq and would be giving us most of the same problems had we remained.
Iraq was weak and unable to effectively project power. Sadaams influence in the region was non-existent.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Its not a matter of conversion, Connie, it is that the only reason this support comes is because Israel is the key cog in the end-times philosophy. It is rather patronizing to many of us.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:00 AM
I truly hope your analysis is correct. I am an Irish Protestant, however, Obama’s foreign policies are a threat to everyone and I believe, is his most significant shortcoming on a long list of shortcomings. His silver tongue has served him well. I just pray that people will actually listen to what he’s saying now and come to understand the severe risk his Presidency would represent.
Syd B. on June 4, 2008 at 10:01 AM
sorry to burst your bubble, but JESUS is the key cog in end-times philosphy.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Many Israeli’s have lost their faith, with that loss of faith in G-d comes loss of faith in the state.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:04 AM
It most assuredly is not “the only reason.” It is unbelievable that you should say so.
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 10:04 AM
oh and most of the christians who believe israel still has a place to play in God’s plans, believe christians will be raptured before the tribulation.
so whether israel exists, or not, doesn’t matter to the rapture of the church
this notion that somehow christians are in some kind of ‘conspiracy’ to manipulate world events to force armageddon is crazy. dailykos kind of crazy.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Jesus also, but if you think Israel and its betrayal is not a key component in end times prophesy, you are dreaming.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Limerick,
It’s not fair to criticize Obama for a surrender policy in Israel or appeasing Iran if the Israelis are predisposed to killing themselves for similar ideological reasons.
Obama’s “anti-Likud” per his description, and anti-Israel per his associations, and therefore in favor of giving away the Golan and Jerusalem, on the way to all of “Palestine,” (Israel) whatever he says in a speech to people he’s trying to pacify. I’m sure he’s rather Jews leave than get killed, as Ahmadinejad supposedly has advocated according to his progressive apologists.
I’m the only person who’s noticed it’s mainstream to advocate destroying Israel these days?
Beagle on June 4, 2008 at 10:07 AM
If Botox Rex The Ketchup King was Waffles four years ago, I guess that now makes B.O. Pivots.
pilamaye on June 4, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Tell me another reason that evangelicals would support a State of people who rejected and contributed to the death of you Messiah
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Even better, all of the Christians leave the Isreal the “love” so much to be betrayed and destroyed by the anti-Christ.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Good one.
…… and a Star of David lapel pin.
fogw on June 4, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Nope, I am outside looking in but my understanding & logically most African Americans have voted democrat traditionally, so I don’t see much pickup for Obama there, I think staunchly conservative black Americans might stay that way despite Obama being African American himself, however in light of how crazy narrow the elections for US presidents have been of late, it may again really all be about 3 or 4 states like Florida, Ohio, where the margins are already measured in thousands for a win..
If it plays out like previous elections but with a new tangent re Jewish votes, in this case the pesky Jews may have a tipping vote to either side which makes the loss of Hillary for Democrats a possible problem the way I see it.
saus on June 4, 2008 at 10:11 AM
glad to see you know the NT so well.
Israel has a role to play, as does the anti-christ, so? hate to tell you, but all of the actors in the end-times prohpecy are doing as they are told.
how do you like the alternative, that Israel and the jews have been replaced by the church? so who cares what happens to the jews? and my aren’t they the source of so many problems in the world??? its called replacement theology. and it has been the source of much of the anti-semitism that christians have had.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Oh I don’t know. Global security, defense against a caliphate, shared history? I’m not going to get into a theological debate.
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Baracky, Honey, Pal, it put up the Wall, it started the threat of nuclear war, don’t only pick one side of the issue.
Rbastid on June 4, 2008 at 10:12 AM
This is no more of a problem for Obama than the change in rhetoric by the Democrats regarding Iraq was after the invasion. Consistency is not a value to this crowd, getting elected and opposing the American right wing is.
Defense Guy on June 4, 2008 at 10:12 AM
However, the Jewish vote will do more to swing states like FL and even NY than the Black Vote will help in the South.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:12 AM
and what could we do about it anyway? hmmmm?? do you think Israel would all of a sudden listen to christians?? not a chance…get a clue, Israel will view the anti-christ as their savior.
as far as us ‘leaving’ uh its not like we have a choice in the matter, and the world will hail our departure as the start of a wonderful new age!! I’m sure you will to, if you are around.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:13 AM
These are Secular not religious reasons.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:13 AM
I hope you enjoy your flight. I dont come to these boards to debate religion. I come to talk politics.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:14 AM
oh and Israel will not be ‘destroyed’ by the anti-christ…if you knew prophecy, you would know that.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:14 AM
right, and to get your hateful lying digs in at christians. its not the first time you’ve done this.
you just can’t answer the questions I pose, so its time to divert….you sound like a typical lib.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Bayam,
“A recent survey of American military officers ranked Iran as the number one beneficiary of the war in Iraq ”
And Stalin was the number one beneficiary of the defeat of Hitler. So what’s your point? The fact that one enemy gains from the defeat of another enemy doesn’t make the defeat of the second enemy a mistake.
exhelodrvr on June 4, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Jesus was a JEW! So did he reject himself? Jesus was executed by the Roman Empire. The ‘Jews’ did not kill Jesus. I know the verse in the Bible says that the ‘Jews conspired’ but only the Catholics teach that the ‘Jews killed Jesus’. We ALL killed Jesus through Adam’s original sin. Jesus laid down his life willingly. Only hardened anti-Semitics still claim ‘Jews killed Jesus’.
ThackerAgency on June 4, 2008 at 10:18 AM
I am not a lib, and I only respond when religion is brought into a discussion where it does not belong.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:20 AM
I’m not implying that Catholics are anti-Semitics. . . it’s just that how they teach the ‘passion of the Christ’ is a little harsh on the Jewish people. Most Protestants aren’t so adamant that the Jews killed Jesus.
ThackerAgency on June 4, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Really, Jesus was a Jew, I never knew that.
No fooling, that is why I said ‘contributed’.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:21 AM
didn’t know you were the arbiter of that
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:22 AM
I am sorry I didnt see a whole heck of alot of questions in your post, just preaching.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:22 AM
I never said I was arbiter, just stating an opinion.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:23 AM
I prefer not to talk about religion either. . . I hate how it makes me sound. But I was responding to the fellow that said Jewish people were coming around to vote for McCain, but they wouldn’t if he picked an ‘evangelical Christian’ for VP. I was trying to point out accurately that ‘evangelical Christians’ are more pro-Israel than anyone. So his assertion was false.
ThackerAgency on June 4, 2008 at 10:23 AM
LOL….I was in the decorative glass industry (stained, etched). I had a church window design rejected which depicted Christ. The reason, ‘He looks too Jewish’. Go figure.
I don’t give a rats patudy about all the arguments for or against the EOT. I support Israel for the same reasons I admire the men of Lexington and Concord. Two shining cities on the hill are better then one.
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Barack Obama’s presidential run and potential administration is to Israel what David Dinkins run for mayor and administration was to Crown Heights in New York. Both campaigns succeeded in large part by making upper and upper-middle class liberal whites feel good about themselves, and both were beholden to longtime core supporters who had/have a certain hostility towards Jews.
That didn’t make Dinkins’ anti-Semitic, and this doesn’t prove Obama is, either. But it does mean that is situations involving Jewish interests, they at best have/had feet of clay about doing the right thing, and at worst will have/had key advisers recommending they do the wrong thing, and making a bad situation far worse due to their misguidedness/ineptness.
jon1979 on June 4, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Indeed, we appreciate the help whatever the motivation. Evangelicals do make me more leary that Catholics, but that is probably because I am married to a Catholic.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:27 AM
check out:
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:13 AM
it was right after those questions that you bailed.
and all I see from you is hate and lies.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:28 AM
Only hatred in your mind which is likely full of delusions of Christian persecution.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Are you listening to what Obambi is saying? Obama is an idiot.
techno_barbarian on June 4, 2008 at 10:31 AM
or “Lieberman-Kyl,” as they preferred to call it
Is this to suggest that because Lieberman is Jewish, that he has a racist agenda? These KOS people are so hypocritical
.
He’s speaking now and said something like…
‘ I first learned about the struggles of the Jewish people when I was 11′
how about when you were a muslim boy blunder, did they not teach you about the evil Jews?
Then he brings up his Great Uncle again, only this time he gets his “story” right.
This guy is dangerous IMO, very!
abinitioadinfinitum on June 4, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Is that what they’re teaching at Annapolis these days?
Perhaps Rummy and Reagan didn’t get the memo, before they shipped ammo, arms and poison gas to olde long neck?
J_Gocht on June 4, 2008 at 10:32 AM
which no doubt you would gleefully participate in.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:33 AM
He is blowing so much sunshine up their backsides. But our failed policies over the last 8 years have put Israel at greater risk.
B.S.
techno_barbarian on June 4, 2008 at 10:33 AM
That makes sense. Perhaps McCain can harvest some of the Rudy voters.
a capella on June 4, 2008 at 10:33 AM
Yes. Who marginalized America, Barack? The left. Odd that he felt it necessary to bus in 1200 young people to make sure he would get applause.
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 10:33 AM
The paleostinian solution is a pipe dream.
Ah yes… it’s all Bush’s fault that hamas was elected. Idiot.
techno_barbarian on June 4, 2008 at 10:36 AM
About what, the rapture? I have read some pretty good scholarly arguments against it, so I would counter with a question of what would you do if you are wrong and had to stay? Would you defnd us, or let it go?
Listen about what? Jesus? Probably not, over half of Israelis are secular anyways.
Convenient
See my post above.
I will likely be sad, many of my friends would be gone. I would probably be converted by then anyways. Since I dont think it would happen even if the end times were real, it will likely be a moot point.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:38 AM
Give me a break, I wholeheartedly support religious freedom. I think you are wrong, but you can keep shouting at the wind all you want.
What a bunch of bull…
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Not an Annopolis Grad.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:40 AM
Obama, 06/04/08 7:35AM PDT:
“There is no room at the negotiating table for terrorists, or terrorist organizations.”
franksalterego on June 4, 2008 at 10:40 AM
Three-Card Monte
Now, you see it…Now, you don’t
franksalterego on June 4, 2008 at 10:42 AM
To the left of Dick Turban???
Wow … McCain better spread that one far and wide.
docob on June 4, 2008 at 10:46 AM
You didn’t ask for religious reasons, unless you are erroneously implying that evangelicals cannot separate church and state. Seems to me that we are at war with people who refuse to do that.
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 10:46 AM
the ’scholarly’ arguments against it are like most of the ’scholarly’ arguments against christianity, worthless.
so lets assume christians are around when the anti-christ betrays Israel…how are we supposed to defend israel? when we are being persecuted and hounded by the anti-christ? and we are unable to buy or sell anything?? and since Israel has entered a deal with the beast, they would consider us their enemies, most likely.
obviously they wouldn’t listen to use about Jesus, but about the anti-christ, the beast, that they will enter inter a deal with.
truth hurts.
so now you’re telling me you have lots of christian friends…do you have a lot of black friends too? just curious…have you told them how evil conservative christians are too? or let me guess, they’re good ‘liberal’ christians, and agree with you!!
converted to what? a christian? not likely. would you ‘convert’ and get the mark? don’t understand what you’re saying…
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Hillary was scheduled, as of yesterday, to speak after Barry. Anyone know if that is still on? Wondering if she will endorse his anti-terror cred.
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 10:47 AM
you may, but your dislike and antipathy for conservative christians is obvious.
right4life on June 4, 2008 at 10:47 AM
A fine naval officer nevertheless and a student of history to boot! :)
J_Gocht on June 4, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Some…..
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:48 AM
I have a dislike for some, since my wife is a conservative Christian, I clearly dont dislike them all.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Sorry, wrong word. “Theological” is what I should have used there.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Not when the beast betrays us 3 1/2 years into it.
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:52 AM
I could see this straw man coming a mile a way…
Yes I have many of both, military service will do that…
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Yeah, if she goes in the tank for him, it will tell us a lot. OTOH, she is a proven liar.
a capella on June 4, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Likely. If the writing were that clear, conversion would be likely.
Here is my suprised face :O
Squid Shark on June 4, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Obama is promising the world, what fool wouldn’t vote for him?
It’s just that he gives NO way of actually achieving ANY of his promises.
What sane person WOULD vote for this naive neophyte?
abinitioadinfinitum on June 4, 2008 at 10:55 AM
So. Now that Obama has told AIPAC that he will support and defend Israel, does he lose the Muslim vote? Or will he meet with them and affirm his support for them against Israel?
Connie on June 4, 2008 at 10:57 AM
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