New RNC ad: Democrats against Obama!
posted at 12:10 pm on June 4, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Ah, the low-hanging fruit of a long, bitter, clingy primary campaign. I shudder at the thought of what the DNC could have done along these lines if Mitt was the nominee instead of McCain. A quickie bullet-point list of his flip-flops, a grainy black and white photo of the candidate looking aloof, and a little echo effect on Maverick’s famous one-liner at the debate, and voila: “You are the candidate of change, -ange, -ange…”
Here’s an entire fruit salad in case you’re still hungry after the vid. It’s as early as early can be and I don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up, but anecdotal evidence like this has me thinking we may only lose by four or five points in November.
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Just wait…they’ll ALL be jumping on the OBAMA bandwagon by the time of the convention…….
chief65 on June 4, 2008 at 12:13 PM
but anecdotal evidence like this has me thinking we may only lose by four or five points in November.Plug 8 to 10 more on that.
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Operation chaos. McCain should thank Rush. Not likely, though.
JellyToast on June 4, 2008 at 12:14 PM
I can’t imagine ever being happy to hear, “We’re from the CLinton campaign and we’re here to help.”
Akzed on June 4, 2008 at 12:14 PM
What about this?
amerpundit on June 4, 2008 at 12:15 PM
You’re nuts. I am fairly new around here, but it is fairly obvious you have a pessimistic streak a hundred miles wide. Obama is the best thing to ever happen to the Republicans in a presidential campaign.
Think positive and use a little objectivity. In reality this will be McCain’s election to lose.
NotCoach on June 4, 2008 at 12:17 PM
And he’s just the man to do it.
Rhinoboy on June 4, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Seems to me I have heard something along those lines before.
Oh, now I remember, it was in 1980.
“Reagan is the best thing to ever happen to the Democrats in a presidential campaign.”
Let me see now, how did that election turn out?
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Well that’s kind of the problem…isn’t it.
ChrisM on June 4, 2008 at 12:25 PM
ROFLMAO! True, true, but if the GOP and conservative 527’s do the job that McAmnesty is unwilling to do (with ads like this one) we still stand a chance of contending only with Juan “Clinton Lite” McAmnesty, instead of the messiah and a veto-proof congress.
Use your votes wisely, my friends
Fishoutofwater on June 4, 2008 at 12:26 PM
Extra points for the ominous background music. I hope this is all over TV in October.
Gilda on June 4, 2008 at 12:28 PM
OT: FYI
Michelle Obama Tape Many Details [Bill Cosby there, Clinton too]
(begin quote) What’s on the Michelle Obama Rant Tape? Here’s what’s known so far:
The Michelle Obama Rant Tape was filmed between June 26th – July 1st 2004 in Chicago, IL at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition Conference at Trinity United Church: specifically the Women’s Event.
Michelle Obama appeared as a panelist alongside Mrs. Khadijah Farrakhan and Mrs. James Meeks.
Bill Clinton spoke during the Conference, as did Bill Cosby and other speakers, but not at the panel Michelle attended.
Michelle Obama spoke at the Women’s Event, but referenced Bill Clinton in her rant — his presence at the conference was the impetus for her raving, it seems.
For about 30 minutes, Michelle Obama launched into a rant about the evils of America, and how America is to blame for the problems of Africa. Michelle personally blamed President Clinton for the deaths of millions of Africans and said America is responsible for the genocide of the Tutsis and other ethnic groups. She then launched into an attack on “whitey”, and talked about solutions to black on black crime in the realm of diverting those actions onto white America. Her rant was fueled by the crowd: they reacted strongly to what she said, so she got more passionate and enraged, and that’s when she completely loses it and says things that have made the mouths drop of everyone who’s seen this.
The “tape” is a DVD that Trinity United sold on its website, and possibly offered free for download up until March 2008 when Trinity’s site was scrubbed and the DVDs were no longer offered for sale.
This outburst happened just one month before the 2004 Democratic Convention, when Barack Obama delivered the keynote address.(end quote)
TheBigOldDog on June 4, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Rhinoboy! I dropped my iPhone from the laughter! Too funny, but dam straight.
javamartini on June 4, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Is your point that Obama is really a genius that is trying hard to prove he isn’t by being ignorant at every turn? Because Reagan never hid his obvious talents despite a party and media that underestimated him and the people’s intelligence at every turn. In fact this could be a repeat of 1980 in another way because the left will become enamored with their Messiah and miss all the obvious signs once again.
Democrats underestimated Reagan. Who will be underestimating Obama when he has the MSM in his hip pocket? No, Obama will be the gift that keeps on giving on all his own despite a media in the tank for him.
NotCoach on June 4, 2008 at 12:33 PM
I will bet that by the time August rolls around, every single person who showed up in that ad are all going to say something along the lines of “..but what I said is not what I actually meant…” and other choice weasel-worded phrases, because by then, they all have to be unified and united, and unanimous, and all sorts of other words that start with “u”, because they are all going to be expected to be standing behind B.O….hopefully like dominoes.
pilamaye on June 4, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Tony737 gave the best example the other night as to why the war in Iraq will not boost McCain into the Oval office…
(Sorry to paraphrase you Tony)..’I asked my passengers (on the jet) who could name a Medal of Honor winner…(no show of hands)..’I asked my passengers who could name an American Idol and lots of hands went up’.
The peeps DON’T CARE. All they want is more gas in their tank and more blue pills to get them through the week. Yeah the GWOT will lock all us hawks in. How many hawks have you met lately?
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 12:34 PM
‘… we may only lose by four or five points …”
Way to fire up the troops there, Pessimisticles.
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:34 PM
What a waste it is to lose one’s mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.
- Dan Quayle
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 12:36 PM
That IS optimism by Allah’s standards! ;-)
aero on June 4, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Sorry to paraphrase you Tony
That’s ok, Limey, ya done good.
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:37 PM
No.
My point is that a lot of Republicans are fools.
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 12:39 PM
“That IS optimism by Allah’s standards! – Aero
Oh yeah, I forgot who I was talkin’ to! Pessimism is for the Left, optimism is for the Right. I’m sure somebody will come back with ‘Realism is for the right, too.’ but we make our own reality.
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Of course Republicans could be very lucky fools if someone would get a utube of all that stuff that Obama’s nuttier half is suppose to have said.
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 12:42 PM
So it seems that dozens if not hundreds of copies of this should be out there, doesn’t it? Kind of takes the mystery out of it, and they’ve probably already mounted a slick response for when it hits.
nyrofan on June 4, 2008 at 12:42 PM
I’m not a Republican.
NotCoach on June 4, 2008 at 12:43 PM
McCain will mop the floor with Obama in the debates. He is a devastating debater and has much ammunition to fire in BO’s direction. He’s already challenged BO to co-host 10 pre-convention town hall meetings with him. BO wants to stay on script and away from extemporaneous exchanges. JM wants to wage this battle off script and away from the dreaded teleprompter. Who ever sets the battle field wins the battle. It’ll be interesting to see if Mac can drag Barry off of the high ground and down into the swamp. My guess is that BO’s ego will be his downfall.
DrW on June 4, 2008 at 12:43 PM
I’m optimistic that we will win because when the Swing Voters get a closer look at the empty suit Obambi, they will see that he has a big red E on his chest, not an S. Even the beautiful Mrs.737 who’s not really into politics, noted how his speeches were full of empty, vague rhetoric.
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:45 PM
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonreality. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn’t. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn’t be, and what it wouldn’t be, it would. You see?
Sigy on June 4, 2008 at 12:46 PM
The ads just make themselves!
CP on June 4, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Did you leave the party or did it leave you?
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 12:47 PM
.
.
Olbermann calls this video an attack ad.
.
.
NY Times cries foul.
.
.
CNN airs hurricane forecast for 2018.
.
.
subbottomfeeder on June 4, 2008 at 12:47 PM
As long as McCain remains aggressive and Obama remains Obama and also refuses to rise to McCain’s challenges (which he will) Mac will be in good shape come November.
NotCoach on June 4, 2008 at 12:47 PM
THANK YOU.
I’m dead serious here, Allah, your pessimism is so damn strong at this point that there are times when I question why I still read this site at all. Is it too much to ask that an actual conservative blog kind of, maybe, gets enthusiastic about supporting Republicans this election cycle? I don’t know, maybe I’m just crazy with that line of thinking.
Vyce on June 4, 2008 at 12:47 PM
That my wife is black and still calls Obambi an empty suit fills me with optimism. If I were Greek, my name would be Optimisticles! C’mon Allah, buck up little camper!
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:48 PM
I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican.
- Dan Quayle
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Never was a Republican. I am a Conservative if anything. And no, McCain is not my ideal candidate, but staying home is rarely an option for me. Ninety percent or better of all elections are a choice between the lesser of two evils.
NotCoach on June 4, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Is it too much to ask that an actual conservative blog kind of, maybe, gets enthusiastic about supporting Republicans this election cycle? – Vyce
What color is the sky on YOUR planet? Planet Wackjob? Nah, just kiddin’, you’re riht on the mark!
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Well maybe if Republicans would nominate a conservative again some day.
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 12:50 PM
I don’t recall the word cheerleader in the title page.
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 12:50 PM
And no, McCain is not my ideal candidate, but staying home is rarely an option for me. – NotCoach
He’s at the 30! The 20! TOUCHDOWNNNNNNNNN!
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:51 PM
LOL….ya give me hope, my friend!
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Well maybe if Republicans would nominate a conservative again some day. – MB4
Hey, that’s a GREAT idea! But for now, we’re stuck with McCain, so let’s cross in front of us.
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Boring, unoriginal and lacking in creativity. That commercial is really weak. The GOP needs something with more bite.
GogglesPisano on June 4, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Well, it’s a decision of the lessor of two incompetent losers.
Both are not conservatives [except for one that pretends to be conservative].
Both are liberals. Both believe in the global warming hoax.
Both are bad for America…., but I have to vote for one and hold my nose doing so.
Yuck, I feel dirty and no amount of showers with make me feel any cleaner.
Kini on June 4, 2008 at 12:54 PM
ya give me hope, my friend! – Limey
Yes sir! Optimism is contageous! :-)
… (cue dark, dreary music)
… but so is pessimism. :-(
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Whatever…. Allah’s pessimism is awesome. It makes it special when he acknowledges a potential mere 4 point loss. It makes me warm and fuzzy.
DaveS on June 4, 2008 at 12:56 PM
Obambi’s campaign could easily counter with a 30 minute audio ad, composed of sound bites featuring Rush Limbaugh trashing McCain for months on end.
fogw on June 4, 2008 at 12:56 PM
I second that. Barry is such a flawed candidate, the Repubs have this won if they play it smart. McCains got the Patriot creds. He has the experience creds. He has the support American victory creds. From a conservative’s point of view he has some big flaws, but those flaws will appeal to the moderate Dems. Barry is going to be marginalized and have only the nuts for his base. It has the potential for a McGovernesque beat down, if McCain plays it smart.
Mallard T. Drake on June 4, 2008 at 12:58 PM
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 12:39 PM:
Too true. I see so many of them among the McCain bashers.
irishspy on June 4, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Ooops! That was ‘possed to say:
“But for now, we’re stuck with McCain, so let’s cross THE BRIDGE in front of us.”
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 1:02 PM
That is the problem. People like me, the ‘pessimist’, are all McCain bashers. Bullpie. McCain isn’t my first choice but I’m happy to vote for him. I just refuse to pretend that those 6000 zombies outside my door are just a nightmare. Pass me another 00buck, willya?
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 1:02 PM
good point, but Rush isn’t running for any public office, never has, never will. He’s just an entertainer, dontcha know?
Fishoutofwater on June 4, 2008 at 1:03 PM
It would be tough. It does seem strange everyone is so shy about not making it available to the blogosphere, if it does exist as described. I still think Her Majesty is floating lazily on outstreched wings high in the sky waiting,..waiting,..waiting,..
a capella on June 4, 2008 at 1:03 PM
If we accept being stuck then we are always going to get stuck.
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 1:04 PM
You don’t like McCain as the candidate? The nasty side of me says “too bad”. You had the opportunity to choose someone else but couldn’t decide amongst yourselves who was supposed to be Reagan 2.0, so McCain swept the nomination away from you. It may gnaw at you, but your options are to either hold your nose and vote for him in November, vote for Obama (which isn’t the sane choice if your gripe is that McCain isn’t ‘conservative’ enough, given Obama’s quasi-socialist politics), or stay at home / vote for a third party, which is basically tantamount to voting for Obama anyway.
If your issue in this election is that you want the guy with the most conservative values elected, then yeah, I’d kind of appreciate a CONSERVATIVE blog do at least a LITTLE cheerleading for Republicans this year, or a minimum not be so overwhelming doom and gloom (seemingly having already determined it’s a forgone conclusion that Obama wins) about Republican’s chances. Because despite the myths that you’ve built up about the man, the reality is that McCain is as conservative of a candidate as you’re GOING to get in this election.
Vyce on June 4, 2008 at 1:07 PM
You plagiarized that from some liberal self-help book didn’t you!?
Swinehound on June 4, 2008 at 1:10 PM
If all that’s true why has it yet to appear on youtube? I just can’t see everyone who has it, or seen it, holding back this long.
aikidoka on June 4, 2008 at 1:11 PM
I do like McCain. I don’t agree with him on everything but you don’t find me holding up a cross in his face when he comes through the door either.
It is the Republicans with the blinders on that tick me off.
You all phoo-phoo off the gigantic Dem registration and voting lead as cross-overs or sore-losers. Good luck with that come November. Hell, good luck with that come August.
Limerick on June 4, 2008 at 1:11 PM
“What’s this?” thought John McCain. “I can feel nothing warmer at all! That is terrible. Am I stupid? Am I a flat-earther? Am I a denier? Am I not fit to be President? That would be the most dreadful thing that could happen to me. “Oh, it is very hot!” McCain said aloud. “It has my highest approbation.” And McCain nodded in a contented way, and gazed outside, for he would not say that he felt no Global Warming. The whole entourage that he had with him looked and looked, and felt no warming, any more than the rest; but, like John McCain, they said, “It is so warm!” and counseled him to always say that he felt warm when he was out in public. “It is warm, hot even!” went from mouth to mouth. On all sides there seemed to be general warming, and John McCain gave Al Gore the title of Imperial Master of Global Warming Science.
So John McCain went in procession, and every one in the streets said, “How incomparable warm it is! What a warm day it is!” No one would let it be perceived that he could not feel warming, for that would have shown that he was not fit for his office, or was very stupid or a flat-earther or a denier. No day of John McCain’s had ever been as warm as this one.
“But it’s freezing cold out here!” a little child cried out at last. “Just hear what that innocent says!” said the father: and one whispered to another what the child had said. “But it is cold out here!” said the whole people at length. That touched John McCain, for it seemed to him that they were right; but the thought within himself, “I must go through with feeling all the Global Warming.” And so he held himself a little higher, and his aides held on tighter than ever, and proclaimed the Global Warming which did not exist at all.
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Why? No offense to this site or the writers, but it’s a political blog. The snark of one political blogger isn’t going to make the difference in whether McCain wins or loses.
Slublog on June 4, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Close but no cigar.
Sigy on June 4, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Good point too. But when I look at Obambi all I see is an entertainer; posing, smiling, reading his lines and lacking any substance whatsoever.
That goes for most politicians today.
fogw on June 4, 2008 at 1:17 PM
You can’t handle the truth!
- Nathan R. Jessep
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 1:18 PM
Make that 100%.
Politicians, by their very nature, suck. It’s always about voting for the one that sucks less.
jaime on June 4, 2008 at 1:18 PM
I love this vid. I’d play it and play it and play it, especially in the states Hillary won in.
spacekicker on June 4, 2008 at 1:20 PM
One day, a man named John McCain looked around at the senate where he was a long time senator and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through caucuses and primaries. He climbed over some candidates and went around others until he reached the Republican nomination.
The coming Presidential race would be a tough one, and so John McCain stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn’t see any way to win on his own. So he thought that he would probably lose.Suddenly, he saw some naive conservatives blogging at a conservative web site. He decided to ask them for help in winning the election. “Would you be so kind, my friends, as to give me a hand in winning the election?”
“Well now, Senator McCain! How do we know that if we help you, you wont betray us?” asked the conservatives hesitantly.
“Because,” senator McCain replied, “If I betray you, then I would fail too, for you see I cannot govern without your support!”
Now this seemed to make some sense to the conservatives. But they asked. “What about when you get close to being elected? You could still start to betray us and might still win anyway!”
“This is true,” agreed senator McCain, “But I might well not be able to get enough conservative turnout to win the presidency!”
“Alright then…how do we know you wont just wait till you get elected and then betray us?” said the conservatives.
“Ahh…,” crooned senator McCain, “Because you see, once you’ve helped to make me president, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with betrayal, now would it?”
So the conservatives agreed to take help senator McCain get elected president. He edged out Barak Obama in a nail-bitting race and was inaugurated in January of the year 2009. Now president McCain immediately got a democratic majority in congress to enact full amnesty for all illegals in the United States and all of their relatives. He also nominated Hillary Clinton to the U.S. Supreme court along with Senator Teddy Kennedy’s wife. Both were confirmed.
.
“You fool!” croaked the conservatives, “You have betrayed us and you will never get a second term. Why on earth did you do that?”
Now president McCain shrugged and snickered and did a little jig ….
“I could not help myself. It is my nature.”
- HT to INC for the idea
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Why are the “Ranting MO Tapes” NOT all over the internet by now? If they were available for sale until March 2008… why were they not purchased as ammo for the Republican campaign by the RNC or hell Rush, Malkin et cetera?
Just sayin’?
Swinehound on June 4, 2008 at 1:22 PM
MB4, I see you have discovered the lost McCain scrolls.
ChrisM on June 4, 2008 at 1:25 PM
… I don’t know where you’ve been, but conservatives have already lost. We have 3 Democrats running for President.
And Ron Paul.
What a year!
HYTEAndy on June 4, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Ditto, her supporters are creepy.
AprilOrit on June 4, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Well a few of them near the surface. I’m sure there are a lot more just down a little deeper.
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 1:27 PM
Let the rocks bear fruit of crawly things from underneath them, who venture into the sun light in order to promote their chosen one.
The time has come. The call goes out…….(ahhhooooogggaaaaaa!!!)
Hening on June 4, 2008 at 1:29 PM
If we accept being stuck then we are always going to get stuck. – MB4
BZZZZZT! OH! Sorry, that’s incorrect, but thanks for playing.
Once we were stuck with Ford, then we got Reagan.
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Now this one is saying it’s a DVD that Trinity sold on their site, so where – is – it – already!!
There is obviously something wrong with larry and his bloggers, like the rest of Hillary’s people.
AprilOrit on June 4, 2008 at 1:35 PM
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 1:36 PM
I was reffering to a candidate. We got stuck with Carter as President because of Watergate.
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 1:42 PM
Keeping hope alive. This is my position as well.
However, Ann Coulter wrote a great article on why we will never get another Ronald Reagan… Thanks in no small part to, once again, to John McCain.
Swinehound on June 4, 2008 at 1:46 PM
This is one of the best Political Ads ever! I love it!
jencab on June 4, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Worlds upon worlds of difference. Reagan’s conservatism was an antidote to the abject failure of Carter’s liberalism. The economy is nowhere near as bad as it was under Carter, and this country leans center-right when all is said and done. Let’s see, Reagan promised huge tax cuts. Obama promises huge tax increases. Hmm. Wonder which way to vote?
John the Libertarian on June 4, 2008 at 1:55 PM
You are ignoring the forest for the trees.
MB4 on June 4, 2008 at 2:00 PM
I ain’t crazy about the guy either, but while we have Troops in harm’s way, we can’t afford to ‘make a point’ and let Obamberlain win.
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 2:01 PM
OMG! I love this ad! Can’t wait to see many, many more! Sheesh, who would have thought I’d ever enjoy seeing Hillary run her mouth?
JohnAGJ on June 4, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Alice in Wonderland, right?
javamartini on June 4, 2008 at 2:32 PM
Ap .. please leave mitt alone
al on June 4, 2008 at 2:36 PM
I just pray that they don’t forget about this ad later in the campaign. Meaning I hope they don’t toss this up now, and let it fizzle… especially if Hillary winds up as his VP. How great will it be to constantly air an ad of Obama’s VP saying he’s not qualified for the job but McCain is!? Even if she’s not the VP it’s still great.
RightWinged on June 4, 2008 at 2:45 PM
It’s still about the electoral college.
I haven’t seen a strong case for exactly which states Obama is going to take that voted for Bush without dropping a couple of Kerry/purple states.
It shouldn’t take long for the rest of America to see through Obama if kids are able to.
The following is a real conversation I had last night with my 9 year old:
Him: Dad, who are you going to vote for President?
Me: I’ll be voting for McCain by default because of what the others believe in.
Him: Like what?
Me: (I went through the usual things while emphasising how my paycheck already has enough taken out of it to pay for people to sit at home and watch TV.)
Him: You mean we have to pay for lazy people?
Me: Yes.
Him: Isn’t that the same as communism?
Me: You’re a good boy.
slug on June 4, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Is arrogance enough to be POTUS?
d1carter on June 4, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Him: You mean we have to pay for lazy people?
Me: Yes.
Him: Isn’t that the same as communism?
Me: You’re a good boy.
slug
HA! Now THAT’S the kind of HOPE I’M talkin’ about!
Tony737 on June 4, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Ouch! That’ll leave a mark.
Red Pill on June 4, 2008 at 7:59 PM
That’s because BO has shown time and time again that he only speaks well when he is presenting a prepared speech. Other Democratic Socialists write his speeches for him.
When asked a question on his own (think live interviews about the Rev. Wright situation, the debate questions about Ayers and raising capital gains taxes, etc.) he absolutely falls apart.
Red Pill on June 4, 2008 at 8:02 PM
You’re not crazy. You’re right.
Red Pill on June 4, 2008 at 8:04 PM
We’re not “stuck with” anybody until we nominate our nominee at the convention.
Red Pill on June 4, 2008 at 8:09 PM
And even in 1976, Carter got a whopping 50.1% of the popular vote. That was the best the Democrats have done in 40 years.
Red Pill on June 4, 2008 at 8:16 PM
I beg to differ.
Red Pill on June 4, 2008 at 8:17 PM
Obama is running for Carter’s Second Term.
Check out the Carter – Zbigniew Brzezinski – Obama connection.
Zbigniew Brzezinski was Carter’s National Security Advisor, and is now an Obama Advisor.
Zbigniew Brzezinski was the freakin’ co-founder of the Trilateral Commission! I kid you not.
Obama is the empty suit puppet, and there are some very evil people pulling the strings.
Red Pill on June 4, 2008 at 8:21 PM
RP, Huck is no Ronald Regan–I don’t care what the Holy Spirit told you.
davidk on June 4, 2008 at 9:05 PM
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