Marines in Afghanistan have “routed” Taliban: NYT

posted at 9:35 am on June 3, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Where do Hot Air readers turn for good news on the war? The New York Times? Carlotta Gall reports that the Marines in southern Afghanistan have “routed” the Taliban in the region and have them streaming back into Pakistan. This provides a second data point for progress on the war, but could something else be happening?

Taliban forces in southern Afghanistan are fleeing to the Pakistani border after being routed in recent operations by the United States Marines, the American commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan said on Monday.

Marines of the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit have been clearing Taliban and foreign fighters from the district of Garmser, in southern Helmand Province, an important infiltration and drug trafficking route used by the Taliban to supply insurgents farther north.

“The insurgents, after experiencing these several weeks of pressure below Garmser, are trying to flee to the south, perhaps to go back to the sanctuaries in another country,” said the NATO commander, Gen. Dan K. McNeill.

He did not name Pakistan, but Helmand Province shares a border with Pakistan, and the Taliban and drug traffickers have long used refugee camps across the border as a sanctuary from American firepower.

Yesterday, British forces in adjacent areas announced similar findings. The Taliban have lost command and control of its forces as well as their lines of communication. They have been reduced to foraging for food and water and cannot maintain themselves as a fighting force. The aggressive tactics implemented fifteen months ago have decimated and demoralized the Taliban, and they have decided that martyrdom isn’t worth it.

Or have they? The battlefield reports are certainly true, but the massive return to Pakistan may have another purpose. This comes as Pakistan has decided on appeasement as a strategy for dealing with the native Taliban leadership headed by Baitullah Mehsud. That seems more than coincidence.

Could Mehsud have decided that the Afghanistan operations are too costly and brought his forces back into Pakistan for shelter? If so, what would that mean? He may be looking to consolidate power in Pakistan rather than bleeding his forces unnecessarily in Afghanistan. Mehsud may be worried that NATO attacks on safe houses in the Pakistani frontier provinces have become a little too accurate and wants to eliminate any provocation for attacks. Or he could just have decided that he needs to rebuild his command and control elements over the next few months for a fresh attack on Afghanistan next year.

Either way, the exodus is good news, of a sort rarely found in the Times these days (and never acknowledged by their editorial board). It shows that the lessons of counterinsurgency applied in Iraq work in Afghanistan as well, and validates the forward strategy of fighting radical Islamist terror. Those strategies have won us some breathing space in which to work on Afghanistan’s infrastructural problems, including the opium trade, loan sharking, and the utter lack of modernization for its agricultural sector.

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Either way, the exodus is good news, of a sort rarely found in the Times these days

Shows you have much good has been done. For them to report positively, it means much more then we ever thought has been accomplished.
Other words, it is so obvious, even the blind will see.

right2bright on June 3, 2008 at 9:39 AM

You see here is what happened. By Barack not holding a meeting, for his committee on Afghanistan, he thereby pressured the President into changing tactics and it now looks like there could be some success.

knat on June 3, 2008 at 9:43 AM

The report from the Brits yesterday estimated 7,000 bad guys KIA over the past two years. I don’t think the Taliban have much left to consolidate and protect.

flipflop on June 3, 2008 at 9:45 AM

Wow, and all that accomplished without sufficient numbers of Arabic translators.

/sarc

DrSteve on June 3, 2008 at 9:50 AM

Ed,

If they are indeed regrouping in Pakistan then it is a bad news. In case either of Democratic candidates win and decide to cut and run from Iraq the repercussions will be felt on overall strategy against terrorism with the result that Pakistan may be the one to fall.

Gaurav on June 3, 2008 at 9:51 AM

It’s interesting to note that there was a recent upsurge in Predator attacks over the past month or so. HA linked to a story from French security official (ahem) that he believed that the increase was due to greater/better intelligence we had received.

Looks like we should be seeing more Predator attacks over the coming months.

SteveMG on June 3, 2008 at 9:53 AM

Our Marines are AWESOME.

bridgetown on June 3, 2008 at 9:53 AM

Great news!

But of course Nasty Pelousy will credit the good will of iran for the progress.

When will we throw her and that rat reid out of office?

//bleh

techno_barbarian on June 3, 2008 at 9:54 AM

This is a trick. The NYT would not be reporting news counter to their own editorial position unless they had a plan. I bet we start seeing editorials in the NYT soon stating it’s time to withdraw all our forces since we won and things are going so well.

NotCoach on June 3, 2008 at 9:56 AM

NotCoach on June 3, 2008 at 9:56 AM

That, or they are trying to appear fair and balanced just to stay in business.

bridgetown on June 3, 2008 at 9:59 AM

It’s going to take a lot more than the word of the NYT to convince me of this.

Or of anything else, for that matter.

Bob's Kid on June 3, 2008 at 10:00 AM

But of course Nasty Pelousy will credit the good will of iran for the progress.

According to the top Democratic leadership, U.S. Marines continue to impede the peaceful retreat of Taliban forces from Afghanistan.

Hening on June 3, 2008 at 10:01 AM

I’m with NotCoach on this one. The NYT isn’t likely to really support the current administration’s policy. This looks more like them declaring victory today, so that tomorrow they can call for the troops to come home. The paper of Walter Duranty and Jayson Blair. No surprise here.

Orson Buggeigh on June 3, 2008 at 10:02 AM

Brits and US Marines are like peanut butter and chocolate. Great on their own, but put them together…

BohicaTwentyTwo on June 3, 2008 at 10:05 AM

That, or they are trying to appear fair and balanced just to stay in business.

bridgetown on June 3, 2008 at 9:59 AM

Not likely. They still have the same editorial staff and owners.

NotCoach on June 3, 2008 at 10:06 AM

BohicaTwentyTwo on June 3, 2008 at 10:05 AM

+1

DCA on June 3, 2008 at 10:14 AM

I wonder exactly how much effort it took for the editorial staff at the NYT to actually come out and admit that fact. Maybe they had to be admitted to the hospital later on, all suffering from philosophical hemorrhages.

pilamaye on June 3, 2008 at 10:19 AM

Its not wise to underestimate your enemy…

But its also not wise to OVERestimate your enemy…

It may very well be that the Taliban, after years of warfare and being decimated in the last year, has no choice but to retreat, or be destroyed.

Unit cohesivness is a fragile thing when you are dealing with irregular forces… and as the ROMANS showed, no organized military is ever outnumbered by an unorganized military.

Key to the Afgan and Iraq Strategies the last couple of years is going after Cadre… the Officers and NCO surrogates in those irregular forces. Take out the mid level Chain of Command types, and it does not matter if the high level commanders are safe elsewhere, they have lost command and control, and moral will fail.

Sometimes, a Cigar is just a Cigar, not an evil Genius.

Romeo13 on June 3, 2008 at 10:19 AM

Man, the NYT became a neocon warporn merchant so gradually I barely even noticed.

Enrique on June 3, 2008 at 10:34 AM

The Taliban and their jihadist brothers in the region sure do have a unique battle strategy.

Poke your head up from behind a wall.
Fire off an RPG.
Run like hell.

Boggles the mind, why they are losing.

fogw on June 3, 2008 at 10:37 AM

It could be a combination of both.

Facing the Marines is a good excuse to runaway and with Pakipeasment AND paki nukes, might as well go for it there. Imagine a nuclear PakiTalibanistan?

I wish they’d do one big bonzai chrage and get it over with.

Tony737 on June 3, 2008 at 10:38 AM

But its also not wise to OVERestimate your enemy…

Romeo13 on June 3, 2008 at 10:19 AM

I always felt GEN Franks overestimated Saddam’s military with his “let’s leave the 4th Infantry Division on their ships so they THINK we are still going to come in from Turkey” plan. I understand the logistical constraints of Kuwait and all, but maybe those troops would have been able help out with the looting of Iraqi infrastructure and theft of tons of explosives that fed the insurgency for years thing.

BohicaTwentyTwo on June 3, 2008 at 10:41 AM

forces in southern Afghanistan are fleeing to the Pakistani border after being routed

Destroy them completely, and rid the world of these barbaric savages — cowardly slime is what they are.

Richard Romano on June 3, 2008 at 10:43 AM

Ooh stinkin’ rah.

MikeZero on June 3, 2008 at 10:46 AM

“Carlotta Gall reports”

Hmm. Lets not bite on this too quickly everyone. I smell a set up here. A NYT reporter named ‘lotta Gall? Who was the editor? Betty Humpder? I. P. Daley? Phil McCracken?

Buckley F. Williams on June 3, 2008 at 10:46 AM

If the Times is having to spin that the Afghan opium trade is now as great a regional threat as the Taliban, things must be going well indeed (in Afghanistan, not at the Times).

Blacklake on June 3, 2008 at 10:56 AM

The Taliban is afraid of what will happen if Obama becomes President.

exhelodrvr on June 3, 2008 at 11:16 AM

BohicaTwentyTwo,
THat would have delayed the invasion too long.

exhelodrvr on June 3, 2008 at 11:18 AM

Now all we need is for one of our bravest to yank OBL out of some stinkin cave.

wildweasel on June 3, 2008 at 11:19 AM

They are going to pull out all the stops now to make it “safe” to vote for Obama.

See, the war is won, give hope and change a try!

funky chicken on June 3, 2008 at 11:24 AM

Oh, for God’s sake. An ass kicking is an ass kicking. The few times you hear of something like this- which is every time the Corps or other elements of our armed forces square off with these animals- it must be part of some nefarious plot by the evil geniuses.
Funny how they seem to need 80% casualties and the loss of 2/3 of their command in any area to be able to kick off a plan, such as their vaunted spring offensives.
I guess when the day comes when what’s left of them is spotted on rafts headed for the arctic ice pack that we’ll really be in trouble-”it’s all part of their plan! We’re falling into the clever trap of the resurgant taliban !! Run away!!!”
Sometimes I just wanna puke. Take the gloves off, turn ‘em loose, and this is the result-every time.

tomk59 on June 3, 2008 at 11:30 AM

Hammering mercury.

If they can retreat into a safe haven in Pakistan and no one follows and destroys them there, this is about the same winning strategy as Nam.

LImited warfare rescues the enemy from real defeat.

profitsbeard on June 3, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Thank goodness that Iran let us win another one.[/pelosi]

jukin on June 3, 2008 at 11:39 AM

They answered your question in another article.

Taliban Leader Flaunts Power Inside Pakistan
Obama was right about bombing Pakistan. If he renews that call he gets my vote.

Beagle on June 3, 2008 at 11:57 AM

The photo on the home page linking here isn’t of US Marines in Afghanistan but of what appears to be Belgian forces. Of course, I welcome Belgium’s contribution as much as anybody else who loves liberty, but…

For official USMC photos, try going HERE instead. Just make sure to click “photos” after you put in the search terms you want.

One last thing: Damn, I am very, very proud and inspired by our troops and their partners out there!

HotAirJosef on June 3, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Obviously they’re fleeing the imminent invasion of botanists and agriculture PhDs.

Thank you future-President Obama!

Chuck Schick on June 3, 2008 at 12:08 PM

I’d rather have the bad guys trying to gut it out on the battle field so they can be destroyed.

If they flee back into Pakistan we need to find a way to pursue and destroy.

moxie_neanderthal on June 3, 2008 at 12:22 PM

Could Mehsud have decided that the Afghanistan operations are too costly and brought his forces back into Pakistan for shelter? If so, what would that mean? He may be looking to consolidate power in Pakistan rather than bleeding his forces unnecessarily in Afghanistan

.

Captain, I can’t believe that you’re watering down the success of US troops. Can’t we let the NYT article stand on its own without trying to portray the defeat of the enemy as some kind of “strategic decision” on the enemy’s part? It sounds like the NYT is becoming more pro-military than you, given the way you’re describing these events.

bayam on June 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Well, considering that the Islamists lost control of Somalia, have been soundly defeated in Iraq (not completely wiped out, but soundly whipped), and are being decimated in Afghanistan after having been chased all over the Hindu Kush this past winter … it would stand to reason that the rhetoric of the terrorist leadership would begin to ring hollow.

The NYT could be right. These people might just be sick and tired or they might be reorganizing for one last spectacular fight. Wonder what all that Iranian talking to al Qaida is about.

crosspatch on June 3, 2008 at 2:30 PM

When Obama gets elected, we’ll surrender immediately.

GarandFan on June 3, 2008 at 2:41 PM

According to the top Democratic leadership, U.S. Marines continue to impede the peaceful retreat of Taliban forces from Afghanistan.

Hening on June 3, 2008 at 10:01 AM

Heh. Thanks for the grin.

techno_barbarian on June 3, 2008 at 2:50 PM

If they are indeed regrouping in Pakistan then it is … bad news. …Pakistan may be the one to fall.

Gaurav on June 3, 2008 at 9:51 AM

Knowing absolutely nothing of the border geography and other details, it’s easy to lament that we were unable to position our forces to prevent their escape to a safe haven.

Dead would have been better.

Jaibones on June 3, 2008 at 2:57 PM

We are now seeing the Dems and the Libby Press embracing the “routes” and “surges”, because their obvious success only highlights their call to failure such a short time ago.

THE CHOSEN ONE on June 3, 2008 at 3:14 PM

…or it could be that with a weak-kneed government in charge in Pakistan he’s marshalling his forces for what he sees as easier pickings. Is the next step a full blown “insurgency” against Pakistani sovereignty in the northern tribal territories? The Pak army and political elite are easier opponents to vanquish than the US military.

BillyRuffn on June 3, 2008 at 3:22 PM

“It shows that the lessons of counterinsurgency applied in Iraq work in Afghanistan as well, and validates the forward strategy of fighting radical Islamist terror.”

Ed, I find your enthusiasm for our most positive progress in Afghanistan curious considering the posts of others in earlier threads?

RMC1618 on June 2, 2008 at 9:50 PM
…and
Robert Spencer on June 3, 2008 at 7:10 AM

I would further question what lessons [learned elsewhere] of any counterinsurgency applied in Iraq has been successful to date?

J_Gocht on June 3, 2008 at 6:50 PM

I’m not saying Marines are superheroes, but one time we got trapped under a pile of 200 automobiles after an earthquake, and a marine showed up and made those vehicles fly away like he was Magneto. Saved our lives, he did.

True story, as far as you know.

Kevin M on June 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM

Well another spring offensive down the tubes

Gwillie on June 3, 2008 at 7:54 PM

The infantry battalion heading up the MEU in Afghanistan is 1/6, the same battalion that cleared and held central Ramadi just prior to the surge mid 06-mid 07, thus turning it into the theme park it is today.
Trust me, they’re kicking ass, no caveats or further analysis required.

joewm315 on June 3, 2008 at 9:09 PM

Hey joewm315, I’ve never in my whole military experience… ever seen firepower laid down by an Marine Expeditionary Unit !

We used to duct tape M16, 30 round magazines back to back so we could flip them over under duress.

That was early Vietnam 1962-1966.

We never had ear protection.
Eye protection.
Night vision.

Marines Rock!

Olde soldier sends!

J_Gocht on June 3, 2008 at 11:03 PM

God bless, J_Gocht! All respect to the Army, my dad was with the 82nd airborne.
Thanks for your service!

joewm315 on June 3, 2008 at 11:56 PM

joewm315 on June 3, 2008 at 11:56 PM

Hey “315” I spent a bit-o-time in the 127th Infantry in the 82d Airborne before transitioning over to “Smoke Bomb Hill”.
Heckler and Kochs…!

J_Gocht on June 4, 2008 at 1:13 AM

Hey, J- Gocht; from a former force recon Marine, the 82nd kicks ass . Semper Fi, bro.

tomk59 on June 4, 2008 at 1:22 AM

tomk59 on June 4, 2008 at 1:22 AM

Thanks “jughhead”…!

I mean that in a really “good way”
God Damit I wish I’d punched you first in that bar at Yaha!

J_Gocht on June 4, 2008 at 1:42 AM

J; must have been my dad. He was in your time. I didn’t get in till ’78, so far once, I’m innocent of all charges!

tomk59 on June 4, 2008 at 1:45 AM

You youngsters will never ever know how proud we olde soldiers and marines are proud of your service to our country.

We love all you very brave guys and gals…so very, very much!
Hoooaah…!

J_Gocht on June 4, 2008 at 2:30 AM