GM betting on higher fuel prices
posted at 11:50 am on June 3, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
How long will fuel prices remain high? GM thinks for a very long time. In fact, they believe that fuel prices will produce fundamental behavioral change by consumers — and have already begun to change their strategies in response. GM will close four truck plants, will start massive production of the Chevy Volt, and will dump the Hummer line in the near future:
The Volt will make its appearance in the market for the 2010 model year, putting them on the lots in about fifteen months. The Volt uses both electricity and gasoline, and in some cases, ethanol. It can go 40 miles a day without using anything other than a daily recharge from a standard household electrical outlet. Using gas, the car can go an estimated 600 miles between charges.
The Volt will have company at the low end of GM’s line. They intend to produce two new traditional sub-compacts to go along with the Volt — the Aveo and another unnamed model. It’s a clear indicator that cheap fuel will not return in the near future.
As for Hummer, it may have seen its last days on GM’s lots. The carmaker purchased the line ten years ago and has had plenty of success with the boxy, heavy SUVs. However, sales have plummeted 30% this year, and with gas prices continuing to increase, only the wealthy, foolish, or both can afford them. GM would love to sell the line to another manufacturer, but that seems like a difficult sale to make. Analysts wonder why GM didn’t see the writing on the wall and dump Hummer earlier. That seems a little harsh; the line was highly profitable, and investors would have wondered why GM suddenly divested itself of a hot brand.
In one way, though, this proves that the auto industry learned from its mistakes in the 1970s. They clung to their big-car, gas-guzzling lines through two successive oil-price shocks, losing a great deal of market share to the Japanese. This time they have started shifting quickly to meet the market demand of the future.
Blowback
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Wasn’t this lesson learned in the 70′s?
Nothing is new except what’s been forgotten.
Hening on June 3, 2008 at 11:57 AM
It’s The End of Oil.
Just like it was The End of Oil in the 70s.
Remember how the Earth was going to be covered in 30 feet of garbage? Remember the commercial with the poor, sad Indian gazing out over the land and shedding a tear at all the trash?
Remember The Next Ice Age?
Remember butterfly collars? Boogie Shoes? Lipps, Inc?
misterpeasea on June 3, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Funny how the market adjusts to the economic conditions WITHOUT help from governments. Who would have thunk it..
docdave on June 3, 2008 at 11:59 AM
I like the idea of electric cars. But we’d best get started on building those nuclear power plants and upgrading the national grid to support the massive demand spike that will hit every day around 6:00pm when everybody gets home and plugs in their rides to recharge. Despite popular mythos, electricity isn’t magic.
Blacklake on June 3, 2008 at 12:02 PM
1989 F150. One owner. Only 289,000 miles. Best offer or will consider trade for Geo Metro.
Bugler on June 3, 2008 at 12:03 PM
I own a 1993 Geo Metro, just drove it to the bank and it works beautifully. :}
Chakra Hammer on June 3, 2008 at 12:04 PM
BTW, my Geo only has like 66,000 miles and I will not trade.
Chakra Hammer on June 3, 2008 at 12:06 PM
The US is soon to be a third world nation so all this doesn’t much matter. And unless my pay goes up to match the prices I pay for everything I’m not seeing any market adjusting with government intervention or not. Between the socialists and the corporationists the working guy is getting screwed.
Buzzy on June 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM
It doesn’t much matter what GM does because when it comes to passenger cars the Japanese and European automakers will be way ahead of them in styling, quality and appeal.
BigD on June 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Let’s see, because of the enviromental whackos, we are going to be regulated and fined to death because of their unproven belief in GW and their blocking of nuclear power plants and drilling. No body wants to d anything about it except to tell us to buy new cars.
My car may not be as efficient as a prius, however, it is still cheaper than spring for a new car, the taxes on a new car, the yearly tag taxes on a new car, and the increase of insurance premiums on a new car.
Blake on June 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM
I used to own a 1997 F-150 And i know what a 30 gallon is like to fill up.. :{
(And that was back when gas was at a “normal” price)
Chakra Hammer on June 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM
This just in! Futures Market for Buggy Whips just went through the ceiling!
Kini on June 3, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Oh goody!
More Hummers for me to buy!!
TexasJew on June 3, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Great, I was saving up for my first hummer :(
I can’t wait to fit all 4 of my kids into some mini-car.
dc84123 on June 3, 2008 at 12:12 PM
BTW, my Geo only has like 66,000 miles and I will not trade.
Chakra Hammer on June 3, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Who would – like – want that piece of crap?
TexasJew on June 3, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Opps I didn’t “own it” I leased it for 3 years. :}
(Then got the Geo)
Chakra Hammer on June 3, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Tom Friedman will surely be jumping for joy. Maybe he will end his jihad against GM now. Let’s see if he starts calling on Toyota and Honda to stop making their gas-guzzling trucks and big SUVs.
rockmom on June 3, 2008 at 12:16 PM
The Geo was a POS when I bought it Used like 8 years Ago for like $2500 and low miles and still running strong. >:D
Chakra Hammer on June 3, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Won’t you take me to Funky Town.
redrock on June 3, 2008 at 12:22 PM
High prices are here to stay but gas isn’t the worst of it.
Home heating oil prices are the worst of it.
You can drive less, but homes still need to be heated.
A smart politician would take advantage of this. Done well, it’s enough to get you elected anywhere.
But I used an oxymoron there, didn’t I?
drjohn on June 3, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Tom Friedman will surely be jumping for joy. Maybe he will end his jihad against GM now. Let’s see if he starts calling on Toyota and Honda to stop making their gas-guzzling trucks and big SUVs.
rockmom on June 3, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I’m glad you have the time to read that senseless dipshit.
But no drilling anywhere, of course.
I love those nice massive SUVs and trucks, drive them all over the oilfields in all weather conditions, floods, hurricanes, etc.,and haven’t driven a little crappy car in years. I don’t feel that I would like to have a Mexican truck crash into my cute little Prius and get buried in it.
I still mourn the demise of the Ford Excursion (aka the Ford Valdez). That was a beast!
TexasJew on June 3, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Ditto. Kids, dogs, luggage, baby seat…all in a Prius. That’ll be fun.
amerpundit on June 3, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Buzzy -
You want your pay to go up? Don’t work for someone. Work for yourself. Start a business out of your home. Since you’re a conservative – this should fit in well with your life philosophy. Bitching and Whining about pay is for liberals and socialists.
Also, America will never be a third world nation. Be a little more positive. Americans never back down from a challenge, or a fight. Especially if it’s self preservation.
NeoConSnakePlissken on June 3, 2008 at 12:28 PM
Exactly. I think the one thing holding us back from seriously considering a fourth child is that our car is at max capacity right now. Now, our Passat (04) is a great car, and fits us without too much hassle, and it was a birthday gift, so I’m driving her into the groud. Our ’01 Ford Ranger, however, is just a heartbeat away from being traded-in. We’re trying to wait for a more affordable hybrid suv, to have that extra seat or two for that possible pregnancy. The way things are going, though… Looks like we’ll just get another cat.
Anna on June 3, 2008 at 12:29 PM
The Geo was a POS when I bought it Used like 8 years Ago for like $2500 and low miles and still running strong. >:D
Chakra Hammer on June 3, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Then you are a wise consumer. Congratulations.
I had an old Tracker that I sold to a friend in Juarez, and it’s running strong. They have to dodge bullets down there these days, and so far, it’s done its job.
No one’s been killed in it yet, although last week they dumped a body on the street outside her house where her kids play soccer.
TexasJew on June 3, 2008 at 12:31 PM
I live out in the boonies where my electrons are still supplied by a Rural Electrification Association. My REA rates for electricity are among the highest (quite possibly THE highest) in the upper Midwest, after adding on the purchase premium the association pays, the monthly fuel adjustment, and misc. charges.
It would cost me just as much to use an electric/gas vehicle as it does to burn gasoline at this time.
Besides, without 4WD I would be house bound for 6 months of the year.
Yoop on June 3, 2008 at 12:37 PM
The return of the clown car!
Kini on June 3, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Finally, GM does something intelligent. They can go back to making trucks after they come up with more efficient systems.
AbaddonsReign on June 3, 2008 at 12:44 PM
absolutely true
and this is what the politicians of both parties want, and many business people. So they can have a ready supply of cheap labor. Thats what the whole mexican invasion is all about.
have you noticed that US cannot build any big buildings, drill for oil, etc? Especially after 4 years of obamessiah and a democratic congress, we’ll be a banana republic. unfortunately its what most people want…the ‘guvmint’ to take care of them…and they’ll be ‘taken care of’ alright.
right4life on June 3, 2008 at 12:45 PM
Hummers were an abomination to begin with. They’re not for public use.
No hummers for the masses!
wildweasel on June 3, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Bought my Jeep Grand Cherokee last year right after we bought the house and I tried to shove a lawn mower into the trunk of my wife’s Toyota (I had a Pontiac Grand Prix which had an even smaller trunk). Sure, it doesn’t get great gas mileage, but it sure as heck is easy to haul stuff. Besides, I heard commercials for some new hybrid SUV that they were bragging about 20-25 MPG. That actually isn’t all that much more than my Jeep gets. Besides, I have a 12 mile commute each way. Any time we go any distance, we take my wife’s car.
Besides, the last time gas prices bubbled and car manufacturers panicked the bubble burst and people went back to buying gas guzzlers.
crazy_legs on June 3, 2008 at 12:50 PM
I like my H2. I converted it to run on baby seal mash and polar bear oil so it’s more eco friendly.
p0s3r on June 3, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Instead of a baby?
fourstringfuror on June 3, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Seriously, many libs want us to have fewer kids, too. They’ll be thrilled if being forced into smaller cars makes us all less likely to have that one more kid. If they could eliminate the back seat entirely and thereby make it so that we don’t have any kids at all, I think some of them would consider it a victory. Remember the lady who had herself sterilized in order to “do her part” to counteract global warming? Yeah, that’s what I’m talkin’ about.
aero on June 3, 2008 at 12:59 PM
The ‘volt’ makes no sense, where’s the battery. It’s a marketing gimmick. No one knows how to build a battery which can store anywhere near the amount of energy you get from a gallon of gasoline,
Electric power and motors have been around for a long time. The motors are more efficient because of advances in magnets and power control, but the battery, ahh the battery, where are you.
There is no substitute for oil in the near future, but if CO2 is your enemy, nuclear power should be your new best friend.
tarpon on June 3, 2008 at 1:00 PM
Don’t worry, everything will be alright…
liquidflorian on June 3, 2008 at 1:02 PM
I LOVE my Hummer. It drives like a dream. I’ve had it for 4 years so it is almost paid off. One of the reasons I bought it (including the tax break – thanks DC) is because I knew they would stop making them soon. The fewer the models, the more valuable the collectible. In 20 years when I’m driving around in my paid for $150,000 H2, all you prius owners will be slipping on your drool. Women L O V E H2s. . . and the men who drive them.
Also, I can get 20 mpg with it so it isn’t too bad as long as you don’t drive it aggressively. But with a 427 hp engine upgrade, it’s tough to drive it dainty-like. The KING is dead. . . LONG LIVE THE KING! I’m so glad they are going to stop making them.
ThackerAgency on June 3, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Don’t be fooled by GM’s posturing. They’ve been working on Hybrid tech for a while now. The problem with GM is the Autoworkers unions won’t build them like they need to be built. Violation of worker’s standards. They will probably be built in China.
Egfrow on June 3, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Let’s not forget that an Indian $2000 car will be on the market soon. Give it a few years and it’ll be all over India, China, and the rest of the area. That will be a lot of oil that will be used and need to be acquired. GM is good to think prices will remain high because they probably will.
I like the H1 but have never really cared much for the H2. It was a Suburban chassis modified to look somewhat like a H1. (It’s a poser!) The H2′s 6.0L V8 unleaded has worse mileage than the 6.5L V8 diesel in the H1.
Anyway, I’m interested in these guys who are building a vehicle that runs off of air. It’s 6 cyl engine gets approx. 100mpg and it’ll get up to freeway speeds. It’s a dinky car, but I’m talking about the technology. I’ll sacrifice 20mpg or so for a bigger vehicle. Hell, an SUV sized vehicle that can probably get 50 mpg is certainly worth looking into rather than getting a prissy hybrid!
Weebork on June 3, 2008 at 1:10 PM
These gas prices are getting to the place where I am now beginning to envy the Amish.
pilamaye on June 3, 2008 at 1:12 PM
. . . and engine which means that parts will be plentiful for years and years. . . and mechanics will know how to work on it if they know how to work on a suburban. It’s all good as far as I’m concerned. . . and it drives like a Cadillac. I just hope I can finish the payments.
ThackerAgency on June 3, 2008 at 1:13 PM
I remember Boogie Shoes, even though it wasn’t KC & the Sunshine Band’s most famous song, and Lipps, Inc., with Funky Town, before Pseudo Echo covered it.
Bigfoot on June 3, 2008 at 1:14 PM
I bought an 06′ Trailblazer for the wife after we got rear ended in my Altima. The Altima held up fine, but if we were in her Saturn L200, we would been totaled and probably wound up in the hospital. The Trailblazer gets terrible milage, but I drastically reduced my wive’s commute by getting her knocked up.
BohicaTwentyTwo on June 3, 2008 at 1:15 PM
ThackerAgency on June 3, 2008 at 1:07 PM
When Big Brother gets everyone into those small death traps he will, as a matter of compassion and concern for the little guy, throw you off the road. You will be able to show off your Hummer in your driveway , but it will be banned from the streets.
Annar on June 3, 2008 at 1:16 PM
I have yet to find a house in which it was impossible to add more insulation.
Then again, maybe you could borrow St. Jimmy’s sweater.
MarkTheGreat on June 3, 2008 at 1:17 PM
Actually, that’s exactly when power plants have plenty of spare capacity. Peak demand is during the day when all the commercial buildings are full and plants running. At night, demand drops off substantially. If they can, they shut down generators at night and if they can’t it just goes to waste since it can’t be stored. It should work out very well but yes, we will still need additional generating capacity….
TheBigOldDog on June 3, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Weebork ,
That $2000 from India car would not even come close to passing DOT safety requirements. The costs to get it up to speed would put it well over that amount. This car is good for India not the US. That’s what it was designed for. It’s a huge step above walking or using carts. For $2000.00 you are better off buying a used US made vehicle it would and would live to tell about it.
Egfrow on June 3, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Weebork’s point, if I’m not mistaken, is that these cars will explode in popularity in India and China and the demand for petroleum will explode along with it…not that they’ll be all over the US.
James on June 3, 2008 at 1:29 PM
.
I take umbrage to that quote. There have been markers out there for the last 5 years that the price of oil was not going to come down and only in the last few months did GM decide it was time. They are late, but not too late. The problem with American car makers is that most of their profitable lines are in overseas markets. That’s where they are turning a profit. Here in America they just try to break even. The real question is, are American automakers going to provide a timely, efficient product that Americans will want to buy? I don’t think the Volt is going to cut it.
knat on June 3, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Baloney…GM is betting on dollar an hour wages, in Mexico.
byteshredder on June 3, 2008 at 1:40 PM
Whatever would make you say that? It’s not like they have a history of it. :)
- The Cat
MirCat on June 3, 2008 at 1:48 PM
The new Impala can get 30 if you drive it like granny, and you can put 3 Britax car seats across the back.
GM’s hybrid tech is awful, and I say that as a hybrid owner. They basically designed it so that it never pays you back the premium for the more complex drivetrain. A 4mpg difference over a 26mpg base model? Ridiculous.
And the Volt isn’t supposed to run primarily from the battery (although it can for however long was cited); it has an ICE used as a generator only — not connected to the wheels at all. Most of the “stored” energy is still in the gas tank.
My own exit question — why isn’t GE involved in making affordable diesel-electric cars?
DrSteve on June 3, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Egfrow,
It may not pass DOT but that won’t stop people in India, China, and other similar countries from buying them up like candy. I am presuming many of the people in the countries I just mentioned won’t be able to afford much above the $2000 car. India’s cheap car won’t have to compete with American cars because American cars, though are much higher in quality, are also too expensive. For me, it’s similar to comparing a Ford Focus with the cheapest Infinity car. Most people want the latter but afford the former much easier.
So for me the issue of marketability isn’t what’s important, it’s that there will be a lot more cars on the road, keeping oil in very high demand, thus keeping it in the high price range. Oil will probably end up being high for many years to come, perhaps even until we Americans kick Congress’s butt into relaxing regulations and restrictions to allow for domestic drilling and additional refinery capacity.
Weebork on June 3, 2008 at 1:51 PM
In other words, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
Weebork on June 3, 2008 at 1:58 PM
Hummers were an abomination to begin with. They’re not for public use.
No hummers for the masses!
wildweasel on June 3, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Whine..whine..whine..
Let ‘em drive Yugos.
Screw the masses; I love my Hummers!
The soccer moms are the reason that the big SUV’s got so massive. They have this strange idea that a baby in a little crappy car would not survive getting run into by a larger vehicle. And you know – they’re right! Mother knows best, i suppose.
Those crash tests are BS. Have you ever seen a “safe” little car in an accident on a highway? Really gruesome… Spam in a can, as they say..
I don’t think the soccer moms want Junior tucked into a Prius in front of a weaving junque truck from Nuevo Laredo on IH 10 at 80 MPH.. give ‘em an Escalade!
TexasJew on June 3, 2008 at 2:01 PM
Will the last remaining member of the “Skeptics of Peak Oil” group please remember to turn off the lights? Don’t want to run up that electricity bill, you know.
indythinker on June 3, 2008 at 2:02 PM
Wind mills in the backyard. My HOA will freak.
Zaire67 on June 3, 2008 at 2:07 PM
@misterpeasea
I don’t follow your logic. You have proved nothing except that my memory works.
I have an idea. Try logic; it can be tricky at first, but it’s a lifesave with things like getting dressed and wiping one’s self.
***
Luckily for some businesses, there are 10 good years of Hummers in need of accessories.
GM would have been stupid to ditch HUMMER even in the face of rising fuel prices. HUMMER and H2 represent quality manufacturing. How fast would GM have tanked without their SUV and trucks? Even the revamped Impala SS couldn’t do it for their cars. There’s been good buzz about the Malibu…but I’ll believe it when I drive it.
***
randumb:
HUMMER – all caps
USATODAY – all caps
The Race Card on June 3, 2008 at 2:13 PM
I would bet it was a decision based on high gas prices AND the increases in CAFE requirements, not just the high gas prices.
The problem is that American automakers have a hard time make a profit on the little cars.
DKK
LifeTrek on June 3, 2008 at 2:20 PM
peak oil?? you mean oi we cannot drill for
given the huge find by Brazil, the huge find in North Dakota, and Montana, not to mention the shale oil….
A 2005 estimate set the total world resources of oil shale at 411 gigatons — enough to yield 2.8 to 3.3 trillion barrels (520 km³) of shale oil.[2][3][4][5] This is more than world’s proven conventional oil reserves, estimated to be 1.317 trillion barrels (209.4×109 m3), as of 1 January 2007.[21] The largest deposits in the world are found in the United States in the Green River basin, which covers portions of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming; about 70% of this resource is located on federally owned or managed land.[22] Deposits in the United States constitute 62% of world resources; together, the United States, Russia and Brazil account for 86% of the world’s resources in terms of shale oil content.[19] These figures are considered tentative, as several deposits have not yet been explored or analyzed.[6][2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale
why don’t we just use that, and by the time it runs out, we can just beam around ala star trek??
right4life on June 3, 2008 at 2:26 PM
Where’s all that electricity going to come from?
GarandFan on June 3, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Doesn’t matter whether the oil peak is geological or political, we still wont have it to put in our tanks.
I’m not certain the technology is there yet for shale in the Green River. My understanding is it will takes massive amounts of water(where water is very scarce) and alot of electricity. Hope I’m wrong.
Golden Boy on June 3, 2008 at 2:57 PM
There have been alot of studies on this. My understanding is the grid has the capacity overall as long as the user plugs in at off-peak hours.
Golden Boy on June 3, 2008 at 2:59 PM
They are embarrasingly late to the game on this…all of the American companies are. A few months ago I went looking for a hybrid, and neither the Saturn Greenline hybrid vehicles or the Ford Escape Hybrid were in stock, and both told me that it would be months… they simply dropped the ball on production.
Meanwhile, foreign companies had the foresight to get WAY ahead of this. Toyota, of course, as well as VW and others are going to put the American companies out of business if they don’t get their act together.
DaveS on June 3, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Just bought a Corolla. 35 miles to the gallon and very comfortable.
Ellen on June 3, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Go drive one. It’s an almost unbelievable build quality for an American car. It’s astonishing that the company that makes the HHR and the Cobalt also makes the Malibu.
The G8 is dead sexy, too.
DrSteve on June 3, 2008 at 3:06 PM
Even better if they can get us all to become homosexuals, it would be all the more pleasing to Gaia the earth mother…but then again we would not have any more children to sacrifice to her…..maybe they would have to keep a few hetero’s around..just for the purpose of creating children to sacrifice(abort) to the earth goddess.
SaintOlaf on June 3, 2008 at 3:07 PM
I remember it well. The guy wasn’t even really an Indian. He was actually Italian.
CurtZHP on June 3, 2008 at 3:07 PM
you’ll find this interesting….
This is hardly a new theory. According to the Chicken Littles of the world, we’ve been “about to run out of oil” for over thirty years. Obviously it hasn’t happened yet. With the recent upswing in strife in the Middle East, however, the notion has gained in popularity.
The thing is, this theory is utterly false, and can be laid to rest with a single well-established fact: there is more oil in the Colorado shale fields than the entire Middle East had at its peak. The only reason we’re still importing oil is that, at present, it is cheaper to do so than to extract it from shale. Until recently, getting oil out of shale has been a nasty and expensive business.
That’s about to change, though, as engineers at Royal Dutch Shell (RDS.A) have applied for a patent on a new method of extracting shale oil cheaply and cleanly. (As an interesting side note, it is the largest patent application in U.S. history.)
Amazingly, this method:
Is cleaner than conventional drilling
Generates the highest grade of light-sweet crude oil, which burns cleaner than other varieties
Becomes profitable with oil just north of $30 a barrel (which we’ve already blown past)
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2007/04/post_4.asp
right4life on June 3, 2008 at 3:08 PM
That’s it. The leftist enviro-nuts have won. The HUMMER is dead.
My prediction: once all the SUVs are off the market and buried, then the Dummycrats will allow drilling in ANWR and off the coast lines.
Mallard T. Drake on June 3, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Anyone who hasnt read Atlas Shrugged written in 1957 should read it now, it’s almost eerie when compared to today’s events. The weekly standard post from above reminded me of it, as the oil field of Colorado played a big part in the book.
gator70 on June 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM
Don’t worry…Bush will again go to Saudi Arabia and beg them to sell us cheaper oil.
It hasn’t worked yet, but maybe he’ll ask them REALLY NICELY and they will do it out of the kindness of their hearts.
SaintOlaf on June 3, 2008 at 3:14 PM
I do believe most people who drive trucks really don’t need one, they want one, and therefore justify it with lame excuses. I don’t know how my mom ever survived without a huge SUV. I see people everyday with ridiculous rigs that never even see the side of the road let alone anything that would require 4-wheel drive.
gator70 on June 3, 2008 at 3:16 PM
So my comment offended (and apparently bewildered) you so much that you felt you had to attack me, you infantile moron? Get ready for a shocker: just because you can’t follow the logic doesn’t mean there isn’t any.
Let me explain, then: we’ve heard this alarmist crap before. Over and over. The Washington Post was hand-wringing about global warming in the 1920s. Alarm about global warming alternates with alarm about the next ice age. Alarm about the end of oil, or Peak Oil, alternates with $10/bbl oil.
GM can’t be betting that oil prices will remain high, or they’re stupid.
I’ll believe oil prices will remain over $60/bbl for a significant length of time when we start extracting oil from oil shale on a large scale. We have at least 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil in the Green River Formation, which is three times the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia.
I’ll believe oil prices will remain over ~$40/bbl for a significant length of time when we start coverting coal to oil via the Fischer-Tropsch process (Google it while you’re getting dressed and wiping yourself) on a large scale. The US has more coal than any other country in the Solar System.
I’ll believe we’re anywhere close to Peak Oil when the world production of oil actually starts, you know, dropping. And even then, I’ll be skeptical unless all the oil fields in the world are being worked. And even then, I’ll be skeptical, because we keep finding more.
See Dick. See Dick miss the point. See Dick toss insults. See Dick make a fool of himself.
Is that simple and straight-forward enough for you?
misterpeasea on June 3, 2008 at 3:34 PM
The lesson wasn’t forgotten. In the 80′s and 90′s oil and gas became cheaper so people didn’t have as much of an incentive to conserve. It was a basic response to changing prices.
seanhackbarth on June 3, 2008 at 3:56 PM
thackeragency:
Really?? Not according to GM.
dave742 on June 3, 2008 at 4:07 PM
Hope you’re right, but how long to scale up the projects to make any difference? Political or geological, the next couple years at least are going to be tight with oil supplies. Any major disruptions like hurricanes, war, boycotts, etc., could create a disaster for the economy.
The solution, which appears to be right around the corner, is electric cars, or PHEV’s(Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicles.) GM is making the Volt, Mitsubishi the IMIEV, Tesla Motors has a sweet sports car right now if you have the $100 K. Nissan is promising electric cars in fleet by 2010 as well. Seems like most major manufacturers have something in the works and there are alot of startups as well. I can’t wait for the day we aren’t funding the jihad with our petrodollars and can tell Chavez and the Saudis to go and drink their oil. Until then, we need to conserve.
Golden Boy on June 3, 2008 at 4:10 PM
The Hummer is not dead.
There will always be a market for large SUV’s and there will always be people who can afford to buy them
The H2 is an expensive machine, and makes GM a lot of money. It simply resides on a GM truck chassis.
The mark-up on the little crapbox cars is minimal.
Do you think that Toyota will stop manufacturing their big SUVs and trucks now that they are finally taking off in the US? Back in the 80′s the only Toyota trucks that were allowed in were little tin cans.
Look at this simply as a tool to beat the UAW over the head with. Follow the money…
TexasJew on June 3, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Straight into the pockets of Chavez, Ahmadinejad, and the Wahabbists. Buy American energy by electrifying transportation.
Golden Boy on June 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Buy American energy by electrifying transportation.
Golden Boy on June 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Stop jerking off dreaming about $100,000 souped-up golf carts.
How about something real, like drilling in ANWR and gasifying our trillions of tons of coal.
TexasJew on June 3, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Will gass prices continue to soar?
Saphire Energy has developed 91 octane Gasoline from Algea. This promisses to drasticly reduce our dependance on foreign oil.
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news5.30.08d.html
Wyrd on June 3, 2008 at 4:31 PM
I’ll tell you what dave, lets go to Hooters and do an experiment. We don’t even have to go in. I’ll go there in my H2 and you go there in your Prius. Whoever gets the most attention from the waitresses wins. . . deal?
ThackerAgency on June 3, 2008 at 4:34 PM
100 miles per hour, 100 miles per gallon, 0-60 in 7 seconds.
thackeragency:
Disgust and pity are forms of attention. Maybe you are misreading the looks. Every woman I have ever met knows that people who buy Hummers are compensating.
dave742 on June 3, 2008 at 4:40 PM
My collie says:
CyberCipher on June 3, 2008 at 4:48 PM
I have a H2 myself and I’ll back you up on the chick deal but I have to say, if your getting 20 mpg, your living alot better than I am because about 9 mpg is the best I can do but hey, thats life.
The good side of this is the prices will drop for a while and I might pick up another for my 4 yr old nephew for graduation, they will be worth some cash one of these days.
Big Orange on June 3, 2008 at 4:53 PM
How will electrifying transportation help? You know that the vast majority of electricity comes from burning oil and coal, right?
So electrifying transportation means that instead of putting the oil into our cars and burning it, we’ll be putting the oil in electricity-generating plants and burning it, and then putting the resultant electricity into our cars. It’s less efficient each time you transform the energy to a different form.
There are no magical solutions, no magical pixie dust, unless you count fossil fuels. Plentiful and useable sources of energy are very rare in the universe. Exceedingly rare. Unheard of. Fossil fuels are a gift from [deity of your choice]: plentiful, easy to work with, easy to convert to energy. And the loony liberals and enviro-nuts have somehow convinced us to hate what we should be grateful for.
It’s tragic.
misterpeasea on June 3, 2008 at 5:13 PM
The Volt will cost less than $40 k and be available long before the first drop of oil comes out of ANWR, even if the Democrats voted to start drilling there tomorrow. And the Tesla may be $100 k, but it sure isn’t a souped up golf cart. It looks similiar to a convertible Porsche.
Golden Boy on June 3, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Coal, yes. Oil, no.
According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), the electricity generated in America in 2002 came from the following sources:
Coal 50%
Nuclear 20%
Natural Gas 18%
Hydro 07%
Other 05%
Oil is in the “other” category. Expect the share to shrink further.
We don’t really have an energy problem, we have a liquid energy problem.
Golden Boy on June 3, 2008 at 5:24 PM
You must adhere to the Dave Ramsey school of finance ;)
Aggie85 on June 3, 2008 at 5:25 PM
As a woman, I have to agree with that!
Aggie85 on June 3, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Steel, the other white meat.
The Race Card on June 3, 2008 at 5:36 PM
No more Hummers? My little sister is going to be pissed.
ThePrez on June 3, 2008 at 5:42 PM
I don’t know if Citroen is widely sold in the US, but has anyone ever considered checking out their C5 sedan/station wagon? The sedan model doesn’t have that big a trunk, but it looks pretty confortable to ride in.
Avi Green on June 3, 2008 at 5:42 PM
Your comment is only offensive to logic, for it’s poor impersonation.
Actually, I got your point about repeating the doom-and-gloom of global cooling, big oil and the Sun crashing into Earth. I’m equally as dismissive of dubious harbingers.
Yeah, I remember the Indian crying. What I don’t get was what KC and the Sunshine Band have to do with anything.
I’m an e-bully sometimes…barking when there’s no postman. Sorry dude.
The Race Card on June 3, 2008 at 5:43 PM
Guns, the other black respect.
misterpeasea on June 3, 2008 at 5:44 PM
Read this exchange from 2001… it’s funny now but indicative of why the country will vote the way it will this year. Fantastic energy policy!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/briefings/20010507.html
lexhamfox on June 3, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Oh Ed… GM and the American auto industry is not lookinf particularly nimble on the back of today’s announcement. Look at the record losses over recent quarters. I would bet they wished CAFE standards were higher so they had a better line up for the current conditions. BTW.. I do think the commodities bubble will burst and we see a correction on crude and gas prices.
lexhamfox on June 3, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Aggie85:
Do women think the opposite about male Smart Car owners?
dave742 on June 3, 2008 at 6:26 PM
The VOLT looks really kewl.
Now is a great time to get that too-big SUV.
Mojave Mark on June 3, 2008 at 7:02 PM
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