Actually, lesser jihadist has a demeaning measure to it. That’ll work.

heroyalwhyness on June 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM

That was my idea upthread when I said “little jihadists.” Yours works much better.

~Except for one thing. That would imply the “greater Jihad” is a good thing, and whereas any inner struggle to be a better individual is good, Islam has done nothing to deserve any implied accolades.

Connie on June 2, 2008 at 1:49 PM

Rethinking my original snarky comment. “Little” is demeaning. “Lesser” validates. “Greater” implies good. Let’s just stick with jihadists. Heck, we don’t even have to use the “Islamic” qualifier with that, as it is implied.

Robert responds perfectly.

I should also say that the four major strains of Sunni Islam all agree on the importance of Jihad (the aggressive form of the defintion of Jihad).

If moderate Muslims take offense at the word Jihad then the moderate Imams need to preach publicly against the immodertae Imams.

“We should call them “Jihadists” because that is what they are shooting, or bombing for. If the so-called “moderates” don’t like one of their words being appropriated and used in such a negative fashion, then let them pick up a weapon and help the non-Islamic World do something about it”

Exactly.

How can they be sinners when they are following the example of Mohammed? Was he a sinner as well? He converted folks at the edge of a sword, he murdered his slaves, raped the women, and in general raped and looted his way across Saudi Arabia. Is he a sinner?

Many of you who argue for State seem to only mind which way we reach submission. Y’all are not in favor of Submission achieved by Al Qaeda’s means but don’t mind if you are enveloped slowly by the spread. The end state matters.

Harami which means “sinner”

and they are also

“Qutbiyyah”, that correct identifies their Islamic theology.

In other words, it accurately frames the situation as an existential battle between the West and Islam.

Exactly! We are at war with Islam. It has always been so and it will be so until one side or the other wins. Ed has never been able to completely turn away from the idiocy that defines the Bush administration. Islam is peace…yea it is peace. You accept Allah or you die and then you remain at peace.

For the last 1300 years Islam has tried to forcibly spread itself by the sword. Now we are to believe that they have accepted the new idea that you should only spread your calling by UN Mandate.

We are winning in Iraq and losing the rest of the world. Thanks Bush. How about we win Iraq and we take the blinders off and win the rest of the world. Fight back.

Fire the State Department and CIA. Both of them have proven their incompetence over and over again.

Agreed. I was completely crestfallen by this thread this morning.

awake on June 2, 2008 at 2:08 PM

+1

This thread and the fact that some are in favor of the newspeak effort, here on a reasonably conservative blog, makes me feel like in spite of our relative success in Iraq we are well on our way to losing the war.

In other words, it accurately frames the situation as an existential battle between the West and Islam.

Beagle on June 2, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Agreed. I was completely crestfallen by this thread this morning.

It’s depressing that Hot Air would be party to it.

Trying to unlink Jihadists from the ideology which drives their actions makes as much sense as trying to unlink Nazi soldiers from Nazism.

FloatingRock on June 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM

Referring to the small percentage of German National Socialists who actually fire the weapons as “Nazis” is counterproductive. That kind of hate speech only serves to anger the untold millions of MODERATE Nazis out there.

I mean, why punish the innocent people who use the word “Naziism” in its peaceful form? All it means to them is a way of striving for the betterment of all mankind by simply requiring submission to the glory and power of the Fatherland.

How on earth can you hold all the moderate Nazis to blame simply because a small percentage of extremist Nazis use violence to advance that exact same cause under the exact same banner?

I think calling them jihadi is what they want. I don’t use that term, as I don’t know of any legitimate jihad ongoing at the moment…

I usually call them #$%&, m’self.

When you refer to bin Laden and his ilk as a jihadi, you are calling him a holy warrior. Think about it for a moment.

factoid on June 2, 2008 at 1:18 PM

I understand that it is a difficult and uncomfortable reality to grasp, but that is exactly how they perceive themselves.

If they are all fighting in the way of Allah, as is mandated in the Qur’an, which is the central tenet of Islam, what difference does it make to them what the infidel calls them.

If this is what the educated right, in regards to understanding Islam has to offer, we are indeed in more serious trouble than originally imagined.

The propaganda is to try to disassociate Islamic terrorism from Islam. We should not be willing to acquiese. The word jihad should be understood in its context by every non-muslim worldwide, not dropped, and Muslims worldwide should be called to task for their subscription to this vicious, intolerant ideology.

Actually, lesser jihadist has a demeaning measure to it. That’ll work.

heroyalwhyness on June 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM

That was my idea upthread when I said “little jihadists.” Yours works much better.

~Except for one thing. That would imply the “greater Jihad” is a good thing, and whereas any inner struggle to be a better individual is good, Islam has done nothing to deserve any implied accolades.

Good luck with that.

I really can’t believe anyone is stupid enough to think Muslims are listening to kafir terminology for their spiritual guidance, but suckers are born rapidly.

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The term has long been taken to mean either a quest to find one’s faith or an external fight for justice.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

This is a mssive exercise in PCism. We need to call these people jihadists because that is what they are. We also need to let the Muslim world know that jihad is no longer an activity that we will tolerate. This interpretation of jihad as a “struggle for justice” is correct only in the sense that “justice” is making dar al-harb into dar al-islam.

I understand that these people at State are trying to do the things that will help us win, but on this one, they are dead wrong. Besides, the people who are attracted to Al-Qeada and other fundamentalist Islamic groups don’t give a damn what infidels or kafirs think. They only care about what they believe Allah tells them through the Quran.

To properly confront our enemy, we must correctly identify him. And he is a jihadist, in his eyes, and in the eyes of those in his circle. End of story.

I acutally have nothing against calling them simply terrorists as long as this is not a tact used to whitewash Islam from the equation. If that is the goal, it is not well thought out, simply an ecercise in grotesque and hurtful PCism.

Actually, lesser jihadist has a demeaning measure to it. That’ll work.

Quite frankly, even if every Muslim followed the letter of Sharia in regards to “infidels”, non-Muslims still end up as dhimmis, so the end game is not really any better, except to the extent that it’s better to be alive and “feel oneself subdued” than to be dead. In other words, it’s better if you’re a coward.

When you refer to bin Laden and his ilk as a jihadi, you are calling him a holy warrior. Think about it for a moment. Is this really how you want to refer to maniacal mass murderers whose idea of success is killing and maiming civilians (Christians, Jews and Muslims) in an effort to reestablish a social order that most of the world left behind thirteen hundred years ago?

We should call them “Jihadists” because that is what they are shooting, or bombing for. If the so-called “moderates” don’t like one of their words being appropriated and used in such a negative fashion, then let them pick up a weapon and help the non-Islamic World do something about it. They’re the ones in need of, and would benefit from an Islamic Reformation, not us. Otherwise, the “moderate” Muslims are ’saying’ they agree with how the word is being used….and that makes them no less the enemy.