Or is it the other way around?

It’s getting so hard to tell.

If the Irish reject the Lisbon treaty they will have to have another referendum and possibly more until they supply the ‘correct’ answer – which is a ‘Yes’ vote. The EU is a totalitarian organisation and it will not brook dissent on this issue. Ireland cannot feasibly withdraw from the EU as it is still an EU subsidy junkie (Celtic Tiger economy talk is not a little hot air) and no-one can conceive of them going cold turkey after all these years of sucking on the EU Welfare Teat.

Nothing to see here – move along. The treaty will, sadly, be fully implemented.

Ares on June 1, 2008 at 10:31 AM

you’re probably right, but i still pray you are wrong. I hope the Irish win, and their soveregnty prevails. And I hope the EU attempts to homogenize Europe, and dissolve national identities, fail miserably.

Tommygun on June 1, 2008 at 7:20 AM

I’m very well aware of American history, but thanks for the attempt at the lesson. I was speaking in simplistic terms in the context of the EU constitution and technically there wasn’t a United States of America operating under a permanent constitution until 1789. The Articles of Confederation, though a worthy attempt, failed.

Actually when the colonies broke from the UK they considered themselves individual countries. They had governors and established representative governments at the county level. That reference is documented in old records. They were united by their discontent and frustration with the Crown in addressing their grievances. In that respect we were ‘born’ from colonies as the Crown classified us and into individual states which erased the ideology of individual countries who volunteered to give up certain aspects of established sovereignty.

My point is that the EU is attempting to bring together individual nations who have operated under their own national governments (of various types) for in many cases, centuries, and demanding they give up their portions of their sovereignty and national identity at an attempt to build a United Europe that mirrors the Untied States. Tariff-free trade and EU investment is the only thing that is holding them together.

Oh .. and I am neither a sucker nor a propagandist.

Nothing to see here – move along. The treaty will, sadly, be fully implemented.

The EU wants to become the rival of America but they never will for the very reason you cite. European will always be secondary to national identity for many reasons. America was born then the separate States were born, before that we were mostly colonies. As we grew and territories were acquired they were developed into States.

The only difference is Texas which was a sovereign Nation before a State. That’s how we got our “attitude”.. ;-) That’s the same attitude that has built the EU, cart before horse.

Texas Gal on May 31, 2008 at 12:24 PM

Error!
1. America was not “born, then the separate States were born, before that we were mostly colonies.” The several States broke from the UK, being “united” in the lower-case sense (see the Declaration of Independence itself). Only later, as with the Articles of Confederation, did they become “United” in the upper-case sense. (Sorry, posse-comitatus-types, it is indeed upper-case now.) At the very least, the States came into existence as “states” at the same time as “America” the country arose. Their existence stems from their separate establishments as colonies, not as formed subdivisions of a greater whole called America. Don’t be a sucker for Leftist-centralist propaganda.

Second. Vermont and Hawaii were also independent republics (with Hawaii a monarchy long before that) prior to attachment to the country, “America.” In addition, there was the “California Republic”. And I’m sure there would be a few more such issues to be raised. Don’t be a sucker for Texas propaganda.

Low tax = more jobs.
Low tax = more consumer buying power.
Low tax = better competitively.
Low tax = better government.

Fixed that.

Member of European Parliament Attacks!!!! Media spins…

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VM1Nj0bqLaE

Go, Ireland!

Bob’s Kid on May 31, 2008 at 6:29 PM

My exact words when i heard about this story a few weeks ago,

GO IRELAND!

That a yes or a no?

Sorry! I forgot to check back in!
Yes….a hundred thousand welcomes. What can I say? Of the five one is a banker (y), one a small service business owner (n), three on the dole (yyy). Family…..grrrrrrr…

Entelechy on May 31, 2008 at 4:43 PM

Absolutely!

And we need to adjust those UNSC Veto seats too.

Limerick on May 31, 2008 at 11:25 AM
‘That a yes or a no?

According to the internet, it means “a hundred thousand welcomes”. So I’m guessing it means they’ll vote for the treaty.

The traditionally poor nation used low corporate taxes to attract business investment

To compare:

- Ireland manufacturing tax = 7%
- California manufacturing tax = 43%

Where would you take your mfg. site?

I’m amazed that other nations do not require a national vote on these things. You’d think the citizens would have a little say.

lorien1973 on May 31, 2008 at 11:41 AM

Where they had one, it failed. It passed where the politicians decided. If the Brussels brass had their druthers, including the EU heads of state, it w/b shoved down the throat of all EU citizens.

The size of the EU constitution should scare anyone away from it.

Being part of the E.U. was a fix, but is not the answer.

Limerick on May 31, 2008 at 11:25 AM
‘That a yes or a no?

Kim Hartveld on May 31, 2008 at 3:07 PM

Second that. Don’t know Celtic.

I’m hoping the people of Ireland know something of the history of Texas and how it was born. At this point in their history, they resemble Texans more than Europeans.

REMEMBER THE ALAMO !!!!!

c3ichief on May 31, 2008 at 1:52 PM

Hey, I live in TX and I can tell you, they’d rather die than be denied!

I guess this deserves a new motto. “Don’t mess with Ireland!”

REMEMBER THE ALAMO !!!!!

The traditionally poor nation used low corporate taxes to attract business investment

Will The Obamassiah follow this part of Europe?