There you go again, calling me a liar.

Renae on May 29, 2008 at 3:46 PM

I do owe you an apology on that account and I am honestly sorry I called you a liar. I should not have done that and I do sincerely apologize.

especially considering that I was not even addressing you.

Renae on May 29, 2008 at 3:46 PM

Anybody can address anybody Renae, you know that.

As to the appeal to the Texas Supreme court, I doubt it would change my opinion unless new evidence comes to light. If the Supreme court overrules the appeals court, I have no idea what their basis would be. My understanding of rules of evidence is that NEW evidence generally cannot be introduced at this stage. CPS was required to provide BOTH of the lower courts whatever they had. But I’m not going to say I would not change my mind if some ground shaking new evidence was introduced and allowed. But at this point, as I understand court procedures, that is not likely to happen.

His is a fairly good article from AP, certainly not my favorite source, but take it for what it is.

Here are a bunch of search results narrowed pretty tight to the court ruling.

This site is tracking the case very close, they ARE pro-FLDS.

If you would like a link to the actual ruling, let me know and I’ll find it for you.

Renae on May 29, 2008 at 3:46 PM

You are wasting your post, as objective and calm as you may be, you are dealing with an apologist. He has some tie or have some emotional or religious relationship with this group. Their historical egregious behavior is cause enough to doubt their motives. And the people supporting them are basically an attorney that makes money suing the CPS, and two or three BYU professors and affiliates.
This case is far from over, but no matter, the mothers have every responsibility to keep their daughters from being raped, and that was not done.
It is a shame that religious doctrine takes precedent over the safety and welfare of children.

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 1:18 PM
See, your still repeating the same old allegations …
And I have every right to give a strong rebuttal, so what’s with this charge against me that I’m “overwrought?”
But I find it hard to believe that anyone with even a casual interest in this case could have missed the court’s decision. The court’s decision was in headlines everywhere, how did you manage to miss that?

There you go again, calling me a liar. I did hear that the court ruled that the children should be returned based on not enough evidence to prove imminent danger. What I “managed to miss,” was the fact the the state had backed up on at least 20 of the children being underage. I amended my previous assertion adding that relevant information. Can you give me a link (an objective news link please) that shows the court dealt with the “grooming” issue.

I called you “overwrought,” because you attacked me personally as a liar and having ulterior motives of hating these people because I posted my reasons for being indecisive about the case and sympathetic to both sides of the argument. I still assert that you were way out of line and “overwrought,” emotionally especially considering that I was not even addressing you.

It is my understanding, correct me if I’m wrong, that the state has appealed to the Texas Supreme Court and most of the children remain in CPS custody at this point. If the TSC finds that there is sufficient evidence to keep the children in state custody will you change your opinion based on the higher court’s findings? If it is definately established that underage girls are illegally marrying adult men, will you then agree that there is abuse taking place in the compound?

If it is established otherwise, I will wholeheartedly agree with you.

Perhaps you would like to tell us all about yourself.

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 3:24 PM

Actually, I don’t want to know anything, I’m just not interested.

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 3:39 PM

I think this pretty much sums up your intellect…in a matter of just 15 minutes.

What do you want to know, I won’t hide any agenda.

right2bright on May 29, 2008 at 3:33 PM

Actually, I don’t want to know anything, I’m just not interested.

Oh, sorry. I don’t divulge private information about myself on public blogs, you are welcome to think whatever you like. Perhaps you would like to tell us all about yourself.

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 3:24 PM

What do you want to know, I won’t hide any agenda. The “private information” will let us know where you are coming from. If you are an atheist, polygamist, agnostic, Catholic, Mormon, satan-worshipper, FLDS member, then we will know in what context you speak.
Most bloggers know about a good portion of my personal life, just not my name, address, phone number, but anything else, ask.

Oh, sorry. I don’t divulge private information about myself on public blogs, you are welcome to think whatever you like. Perhaps you would like to tell us all about yourself.

Sorry, I’m done reading your links, I’ve alreay established there quality.

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 3:09 PM

and your ambulance chaser is better…
and because you can’t get facts straight on my posts, I have determined the quality of your analysis.

right2bright on May 29, 2008 at 10:10 AM

reread that, and remember how far off you are in understanding what is written.
Tell me Maxx, are you a polygamist supporter, maybe belonging to a church that believes or did believe in polygamy?
And now you think it is okay for a mother to give up her child to her spiritual leader (since you don’t like the word prophet)?
Like I said, hope you don’t have a daughter, she is in for a time of her life…

Now your getting confused again, YOU ARE the one that called it a “gulag,” not me.

And like I said, you can save your links. I’ve already established that you like sites and reports that tend toward the left and the incredible (read that not-credible).

This is the history we are dealing with.

right2bright on May 29, 2008 at 3:06 PM

Sorry, I’m done reading your links, I’ve alreay established there quality.

Hey right2bright, I’ve never said anything about any “prophet” in this thread, you are the one that continues to babble about that.

And the only thing I am advocating for is the facts as found by the court, which you refuse to acknowledge. While you are apparently getting all your information about the case from a site that perhaps contacts the mothership for the facts. Truly wacked-out you are.

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 2:47 PM

That’s right, more balanced then your ambulance chasing site. For the third time, learn to understand what you are reading. You are defending this group like you are an advocate for a Mormon polygamist zealot.
Like I said, the biggest issue is you think it is okay for a woman to allow their kids to be abused, I don’t.

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 2:24 PM

Like I said in a previous post. Apologists are easy to come by.
Like I said, you think a women giving her child to a “prophet” is okay, I don’t…that is where we disagree.
I think a mother should be more responsible then just following orders from their prophet…you don’t.

In March, 2006, the federal government fined one contractor over $10,000 in child labor law violations for using FLDS boys.

That’s the point, all of these sites are wack jobs, yours from an ambulance chaser is no better.

right2bright on May 29, 2008 at 2:04 PM

Actually I got my information on this case from a wide variety of sources, some left, others right and probably some in between. But I find it amusing you referred to your new-age site as more balanced.

Try this site for a more balance look at what went on.

right2bright on May 29, 2008 at 12:00 AM

I don’t know what the FLDS policies are in regard to who can go where… when. But I didn’t see any high guard towers on their ranch or any high fence with barbed wire that looked as though its purpose was to keep people in. Looks to me like anyone that wanted to “escape” that “gulag” as you call it, wouldn’t have much trouble doing it.

What gulags and concentration camps are you talking about right2bright? Good thing to see that you are not engaging in hyperbole, eh. Where did you get that charge, from you wacked-out new-age site?

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 1:38 PM

Were these kids free to leave the compound, were they given the chance at a free society? Or were they locked up and programmed to follow a “living prophet”.
So you think it is alright for a mom to give her child as a bride to a man, even a prophet?
That is where you and I disagree. You think a mom can do whatever they want with their child, and I think that a mom has an obligation to raise that child respectfully. I think allowing a “prophet” to have his way with your 14 year old daughter is wrong, you think the mom is right in allowing that.
Okay, we have a different opinion…hope you don’t have any daughters.

Maxx on May 29, 2008 at 12:35 PM

That’s the point, all of these sites are wack jobs, yours from an ambulance chaser is no better.

I’m not saying either is right, I’m just saying…

But I like your hyperbole of ripping the child as it leaves the womb (where did that happen?), is that partial birth abortion? Something an ambulance chaser would say.
These are not innocent mothers, maybe ignorant or foolish, but not innocent. They knew the life they were placing these children in. Gulags, and concentration camps are illegal in this country.

right2bright on May 29, 2008 at 10:22 AM

What gulags and concentration camps are you talking about right2bright? Good thing to see that you are not engaging in hyperbole, eh. Where did you get that charge, from you wacked-out new-age site?

See, your still repeating the same old allegations, the court dealt with the “grooming” issue too. Basically CPS had nothing and they presented a feminist doctrine to the court as if it was some kind of statutory law. I guess its just natural to get all emotional when charges like these are made but at some point you have got to let the facts seep in.

And yes, you are guilty of not keeping up with the case and I guess not even reading any of the comments on this page before posting yours. You certainly have every right to do that. And I have every right to give a strong rebuttal, so what’s with this charge against me that I’m “overwrought?”

But I find it hard to believe that anyone with even a casual interest in this case could have missed the court’s decision. The court’s decision was in headlines everywhere, how did you manage to miss that?

The North American Man-Boy Love Association has 1100 members, & influential supporters such as Alan Ginsburg. Look them up on Wikipedia.

Is 1100 members a substantial number? Is Wikipedia really the best source to cite?

Oh wait a second. I know what’s going on. You’re a civil servant, right?