Social cons to McCain: Just say no to Crist as VP
posted at 3:34 pm on May 27, 2008 by Allahpundit
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David Brody puts a finger in the wind. Lots of reasons are given, Crist’s squishiness on abortion (and, related, Schiavo) foremost among them, but I confess that I came away from the piece with the same impression as Marc Ambinder about the real dealbreaker lurking in the shadows here. Part of me wonders if that’s just me reading my own stereotypes of social conservatives onto the sample Brody surveyed, but some of the language is sufficiently loaded — hinting that Crist’s “not one of us,” wondering why McCain hasn’t said much about the California gay marriage ruling — that I don’t think I am. Besides, Romney’s been squishy on abortion too and plenty of social cons (although certainly not all) are fine with him.
Whatever the truth is about Crist, while I’m happy to take him at his word and frankly wouldn’t care either way, plenty of people won’t be and some will consider it grounds to stay home. It is, after all, unthinkable for an openly gay pol to be on the GOP ticket — or on the Democratic ticket, for that matter. Then again, what exactly are his qualifications to be on the ticket in the first place? He’s been governor for three years and a state AG for four before that, plus ten years in the state legislature. He’s roughly as experienced as, ahem, Barack Obama. If not for the fact that he’s from a key swing state, no one would pay him attention, and thanks to McCain’s support among Latinos we may not even need any extra help in Florida this year. Like I said the other day in a different context, if you’re going to play chicken with evangelicals by putting a pro-choicer on the ticket, why not make a run at Pennsylvania by naming Ridge?
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This is an interesting topic. Can I answer it tomorrow. I’m getting tired and don’t want to answer it incorrectly. YES, Christian’s believe in the last days scenario, the Antichrist (a man possessed by Satan) the 7 year tribulation period, etcetera, etcetera, but this is no reason to be fearful of Christians. We’re the last ones you need to be afraid of. You must understand the last days scenario properly. I’ll try to help you with it if time permits. Goodnight.
apacalyps on May 28, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Are you one of the KJV-philes?
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 12:40 AM
I understand it quite well. It explains many end0timers support for Israel. Not a terrible honest enterprise.
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Not necesarily…jews are still mistakenly awaiting the Messiah(because they rejected the Messiah when He came as the suffering servant/lamb of God)…so many may be deluded into following AntiChrist or the false prophet…that is of course until the abomination that causes desolation occurs.
SaintOlaf on May 28, 2008 at 12:46 AM
Likely the same reason we rejected Jesus after he died. Raising a man to the level of G-d is tantamount to idolatry.
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 12:48 AM
That’s not true..the Messiah was prophecied to come all throughout the Bible..the reason they rejected the Messiah was for the same reason they rejected God…they hated the truth.
Outward piety is easier than inward piety (as God sees the inward man also).
Jesus magnified the Law as the Messiah was prophecied to do.
The Ten commandments are a mirror in which you see your standing with God.
We will have to give an account of every idle word we have ever spoken on the day God judges the world in righteousness.
SaintOlaf on May 28, 2008 at 12:56 AM
The Law is a mirror and not a cure.
It is impossible for the unregenerate man to be righteous.
That is why the Lamb of God had to come and why one must be born again.
Only by having His spirit live in you can man overcome sin.
SaintOlaf on May 28, 2008 at 12:59 AM
I am glad you have the stamina for theology at 0100, but I do not, we will play later ok?
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 1:01 AM
Funny, my pastors always taught me that all one had to do to be a Christian is believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
The rest is tacked on by people like you who seek only to control people like me. I’m not buying what you’re selling. My relationship with God is direct and personal. Just because I don’t buy into your particular brand of dogma does not make me any less Christian than you.
I hope you realize that you’re chasing people away from God rather than attracting them to him. I can’t see where He’d be very approving of that.
Like I have already told the saint, I will no longer be responding to or reading any of your posts. If you’re what a ‘good Christian’ is, I don’t want to be one.
techno_barbarian on May 28, 2008 at 2:07 AM
I’m pretty sure Matthew 7:21-23 puts a direct reading of your pastor’s words into question:
21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
23
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’
Emphasis mine.
Which is not to say that Saint Olaf and apocalyps aren’t moronic self-righteous gits. In fact, I’m pretty sure Matthew 7:21-23 is talking about them specifically.
Take a chill pill guys, and if you even dare have the temerity to question my Christianity, don’t bother. I’m a practicing Catholic and I find it laughable when haughty evangelicals talk to me about religious standards. The fact that tens of thousands of different Protestant sects, none compatible with the others, have all exclusively claimed they found God makes that proposition laughable on its face.
BKennedy on May 28, 2008 at 7:00 AM
Back in early February when it looked as if McCain had the nomination sewn up, Lisa Shiffren at NRO had a column on possible Veep choices. Many of the names tossed around here were discussed. Below is an excerpt from her commentary about a name I haven’t heard tossed around.
Any thoughts from the troops here?
onlineanalyst on May 28, 2008 at 8:32 AM
Here is another name to throw out: Rob Portman from Ohio. He’s not a household name, but he has terrific credentials, especially in economic matters.
Take a look: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25947
onlineanalyst on May 28, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Sorry, I came in late. What exactly is the relationship between Crist and the anti-Christ?
corona on May 28, 2008 at 9:37 AM
No one has an exclusive claim on God, and it’s pathetic when people pretend they do. He is much bigger than any one church.
It can be. If Christians actually practice their religion, the world should be a better place even for those who never wish to convert.
First off, that’s clearly not true, at least if you believe the Bible, which states that the only way to God is through His Son, not words inscribed on a page.
Second, try listening to yourself. The Bible does talk about offensive language, precisely the kind you use here.
No offense, but have you ever asked? If it’s not my holiday, I’m generally completely oblivious to it. I don’t even remember federal holidays that have little to do with me and sometimes forget the ones I have to remember (Mother’s Day comes so quickly it seems).
I don’t know the people you serve with, so I have no idea if they’re all just jerks. They could be, but maybe they’re just unintentional jerks.
Luke was more of a journalist. Peter is the one who had the vision, and it was specifically about allowing gentiles to hear the message of Christ.
As well as followers of any religious doctrine. Jews aren’t singled out there.
I get that many people don’t buy into the end times issues and have no problem with that, but I don’t see how it offends Jews. If anything, you’re the saviors of the story. Without you there is no one to present a light of hope to a world thrown into darkness.
Christians still believe that you’re the chosen people. We don’t believe that God has left you for us. Without you there would be no Christianity. That’s not lost on us.
Esthier on May 28, 2008 at 10:31 AM
a lot of christians do not think so….its called replacement theology.
right4life on May 28, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Well said BKennedy. Personally my prayers daily include the request of God that He align the desires of my heart with His will. I live by this and take it on faith that the fruit I’ve been amply blessed with in my life is a direct result of my having faith that He is doing exactly that.
I’m not trying to force my faith on anyone. I resent it when others force their faith, and more repugnantly, their dogma upon me (that’s not aimed at you BK).
I am willing to take my chances standing before the Father when my time comes. But no man has the right to judge me.
techno_barbarian on May 28, 2008 at 10:47 AM
You weren’t listening carefully enough if that is all you got out of what it means to be a Christian. That or your pastors were from one of those secular humanist “many paths” branches that perverts the very message of Christ.
Joining Christ is not like joining Sam’s Club. You don’t get a card that entitles you to salvation just because you call yourself a Christian. BEING a Christian involves faith and following Christ’s message.
highhopes on May 28, 2008 at 10:49 AM
No but it would also be wrong for a Christian to see somebody going astray in their faith and not say anything. If you really think that all it takes to be a Christian is saying so, you are missing the boat. Perhaps what you are complaining about as people “judging you” is a message from fellow Christians asking you to think more deeply about where your faith comes from! That possibility even enter into your thinking?
highhopes on May 28, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Fair enough. I don’t speak for all Christians.
Esthier on May 28, 2008 at 11:00 AM
Have you even read this thread?
If that’s all it was, there wouldn’t be any animosity.
Esthier on May 28, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Crist made it possible for convicted felons to have the vote in FL. He is the worst sort of liberal republican. Its going to be difficult enough to vote McCain but if he nominates Crist most true, independent conservatives are going to simply stay at home on 11/4/08. DD
Darvin Dowdy on May 28, 2008 at 11:09 AM
nothing captain queeg could do would make me vote for him
right4life on May 28, 2008 at 11:11 AM
I didn’t realize you were that skeptic. Your marriage must be interesting.
I can relate. My husband was an atheist when we first met, and though that’s changed, he still disagrees with me on almost everything else. Luckily this political season we both agree that all the candidates could be better.
Esthier on May 28, 2008 at 11:31 AM
I think it is sometimes a matter of feeling trapped in a surreal world where Christianity is taking alot of our traditions and making them something strange. Some see it as a hijacking.
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Im a skeptic on the authorship of some of your gospels thats all.
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 11:50 AM
Good, they pay their debt to society, they get their rights back. first timers especially.
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 11:52 AM
I don’t know what you mean.
Esthier on May 28, 2008 at 12:10 PM
And of course the matter of Jesus being God, which is kinda the whole point.
Esthier on May 28, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Which stems from my suspicions about the authorship.
Squid Shark on May 28, 2008 at 12:37 PM
Getting back to the original topic – I think McCain HAS to pick someone who has more experience than Obama, or he loses a huge campaign issue. This is one election where the qualifications of the running mate matter because the nominee is 71 years old. Ridge or Romney, even Rudy have more executive experience than Crist, and all have some good economic credentials to bring to the ticket as well. What has Charlie Crist done in Florida to help improve the economy, create jobs, or even improve education or health care?
rockmom on May 28, 2008 at 1:41 PM
Heh.
Jaibones on May 28, 2008 at 2:02 PM
I just read up on Pawlenty, the MN governor. He appears to be a suitbale running mate for McCain. I know the MS governor did a better post Katrina job than neighboring states. Which one would be better for the McCain ticket? Anyone from their states or with better insight than mine want to chime in here? I am curious to know your opinions.
karenhasfreedom on May 28, 2008 at 2:15 PM
karenhasfreedom: Check my posts at 8:32am and at 9:10am. They appear to have been lost is the shuffle when the thread became diverted.
onlineanalyst on May 28, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Sweet music to my ears. I could not have said it better myself. I hope techno takes this to heart. Thank you, highhopes. Thank you very much..
apacalyps on May 28, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Once again you got it highhopes. Very nice! People think I’m judging them, but I’m not. If your neighbor’s house was on fire in the middle of the night, what would you do to try to warn him? Would you whisper “fire, fire” or hollar real loud and bang on their door to get their attention, “Get out! Get out!
I believe that people need to be woke up.
“If thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.” Ezekiel 33:8
apacalyps on May 28, 2008 at 4:31 PM
I don’t know what you’re Pastor teaches you, but if that’s all he told you about being a Christian, I’d look for a new Pastor. The Bible tells us that even demons believe in Jesus. James 2:19 says “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also BELIEVE, and tremble.” Just because a person believes Jesus exists does not garantee salvation unless it is a genuine conversion of the heart which means we repent and turn away from sin. Think about it. Many people know God exists but reject Him, some even hate Him! In Revelation (during the 7 year tribulation period — coming soon) we see that God pours out a multitude of plagues onto the nations, yet they still “repented not of the works of their hands… Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.” (Revelation 9:20-21) They BELIEVE, but they reject Him! Men will once again smugly relax in their humanistic and pantheistic religions, confident in the invisibilty of modern science and technology and willingly and knowingly elect to follow Satan against God. So techno, following Christ is more than believing okay. Of course we are saved through GRACE ONLY, but real faith is to repent and have a change of mind or spirit toward God and toward sin. It means to turn from your sins, earnestly, with all your heart, and trust in Jesus Christ to save you. It sounds to me like you have a misperception of what it means to follow Christ. I did too for a long time. I use to go out and party big time believe me… lol… women, drink, you name it! I did it all! Then I made a full commitment to believe and follow the Bible and left that lifestyle. It was the best decision I ever made and I thank God constantly for changing my heart and making me a new person.
apacalyps on May 28, 2008 at 5:23 PM
And that is precisely my point. You outright frame me as wicked. How dare you. You’re an arrogant little prude, aren’t you?
I believe that you, and those like you, need to mind your own business. I grant you no power whatsoever over me. You’re entitled to your opinions. I am not obligated to give them any credance. And highhopes, this goes for you as well.
Bottom line; butt out.
I’m not looking to fill the position of spritual advisor at this time. If anything opens up, I’ll be sure to let you know.
techno_barbarian on May 28, 2008 at 10:47 PM
You’re taking what I said out of context techno. Stop it. And grow up. Ezekiel, called as a watchman to warn Israel, was responsible to do his duty; otherwise he would be responsible for the deaths of the people and would be punished accordingly. In a parallel manner, Christians are called to bare witness to the saving gospel of Christ, or they will be responsible. You truly strain at a gnat and swallow a camel (Matthew 23:24). All you do is pick 5 percent of anything I say that you think you can capitalize on and attack me… lol .. you try to divert attention from the legitimate points I bring up about your comments. You know your “Christianity” won’t stand close scrutiny so you try to focus people’s attention on something else.
Re-read this thread. YOU responded to me first, not the other way around! I didn’t message you. YOU sent me a message. And now that you don’t like what you hear you cry like a little baby. So you gets this threads cry baby award: animated baby crying. Look, I don’t wanna hurt your feelings, but, y’know [shrugs shoulders] fine with me if you don’t message me.. okay, I have other things to do… lol .. I’d rather go talk to somebody who wants to hear the truth and I’m suspecting from the little bit I’ve read you don’t really want to hear the truth. What I see is you need LIGHT. That’s what YOU need. You’re blind in your sins.. I can’t convince you, you gotta do it yourself… and you don’t wanna cuz you love your sin… you’re like a moth to a flame.
apacalyps on May 28, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Another little published fact about Crist is that he supported and I believe managed to make happen in Florida, voting rights for convicted felons, if and as they’d “served their sentence.”
I’m not one to harbor grudges, but, once a felon, you know, always a felon. Individuals convicted of felonious deeds, well, they may serve their time (some do) but I’m not sold on the idea that they’ve changed their character.
S on May 29, 2008 at 4:02 AM
Reading the previous comments…wanted to add something accordingly.
I’m a “social conservative” but I don’t support Huckabee and I do support as I have previously supported Romney, and this is why:
– Romney is the best qualified executive talent available among viable Republicans for the Executive Branch (President, or V.P. at this stage);
– I have opposed McCain for the Presidency due to his legislative record and oftentimes intentional denigration for Conservative issues, while also deeming himself “Conservative” while voting anything but (so the term just does not apply to the man, or hasn’t — maybe he’s undergone some epiphany or a few, don’t know);
and,
– I didn’t support Huckabee because he does not appear as intelligent and capable as Romney for the Presidency (and now the V.P., accordingly, due to recent events).
I can accept Romney’s changes over time on key issues and I do believe his positions at present are supportable by Conservatives.
I can’t see opting to support the lesser qualified individual for what is probably the hardest, most challenging job on the planet, and, in current times, become a job probably even more difficult than ever before.
It just seems sensible to support the guy with the best qualifications to be Commander in Chief. If we’re stuck with McCain (for unknown reasons from what I can tell) for the Presidency for now, at least select and support Romney for V.P. (or Jindal, though I’d rather see him do great works in Louisiana for now) and go with the guy who is the most capable to “reason through” and handle very, very difficult events and conditions. And who will be the President should anything happen to McCain after assuming office, AND who will likely be President in 2012.
I have a lot of confidence in Romney. Romney as V.P. to a McCain ticket would go a long way to restoring my confidence in voting, since I can’t vote for any Democrat and I need as a voter some fresh, new encouragement that the Republican ticket has some talent on it’s side.
S on May 29, 2008 at 4:19 AM
This is the reason Felons reoffend, because society shits them out. Do you know some of the ridiculous crap people get felonies for?
Squid Shark on May 29, 2008 at 10:01 AM
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