Obama rejects McCain’s proposal for a joint trip to Iraq
posted at 7:20 pm on May 27, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Even more amusing than Maverick’s savviness in forcing this choice on him is TPM straining to spin it as some sort of manifestation of principle — a standard Obama reaction whenever he weasels out of some tough decision, belied most recently by his pathetic reclamation of the flag lapel pin just in time for the general election. Spokesman Bill Burton:
John McCain’s proposal is nothing more than a political stunt, and we don’t need any more ‘Mission Accomplished’ banners or walks through Baghdad markets to know that Iraq’s leaders have not made the political progress that was the stated purpose of the surge. The American people don’t want any more false promises of progress, they deserve a real debate about a war that has overstretched our military, and cost us thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars without making us safer.
If they’re worried about the military giving them a dog-and-pony show, the answer isn’t to decline the trip but to counterpropose a more comprehensive trip than even McCain’s suggesting and turn it into a real fact-finding mission. Don’t spend two hours looking at charts with Petraeus. Take four or five days; go to Basra and Mosul. If they simply can’t suspend campaigning for that long, send a joint team of advisors from both sides. He won’t do it because he’s afraid of what he might hear, which goes back to a point I’ve been making ever since the Jamil Hussein saga: The left would have you believe Iraq hawks can’t admit that any aspect of the war might be going badly, but the opposite has always been more nearly true. For purposes of the Narrative, it’s doves who can’t admit that any aspect of the war might be going better, as if to acknowledge that the surge has helped to improve security or that the Iraqi army is performing better than expected lately or that plenty of Shiites are tired of Sadr’s crap would be to validate neoconservatism or somehow tacitly rubber-stamp an invasion of Iran. So how about it, Barry? Break the mold. I’m sure there’ll be plenty of grim news in the briefings too to help take the sting out of the reports of progress. Exit question: How on earth did we arrive at an election scenario where the hawk is trying to bait the dove into talking about Iraq?
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Yeah, that’s pretty weak. McCain should keep hammering away with this. It’s a winner, and has lots of potential for good ads in the fall.
BadgerHawk on May 27, 2008 at 7:23 PM
What else does McCain have to campaign on right now?
BadgerHawk on May 27, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Barry is so weak.
NTWR on May 27, 2008 at 7:25 PM
Chicken dove.
Chakra Hammer on May 27, 2008 at 7:25 PM
C’mon guys. This conversation isn’t helping Michelle Obama’s kids.
its vintage duh on May 27, 2008 at 7:25 PM
Obama playing the part of an Ostrich, burying his head in the sand.
Chakra Hammer on May 27, 2008 at 7:26 PM
I doubt Team McCain is crying right now.
amerpundit on May 27, 2008 at 7:26 PM
Typical. Get called out, and fall back on tired, old and weak talking points to wriggle out. No sale, Barry. You’re just another empty suit.
tomk59 on May 27, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Well if you wanna walk the walk…. need I say more?
upinak on May 27, 2008 at 7:28 PM
I think that the real reason that Obama doesn’t want to go to Iraq is that he’s worried about another Dukakis tank type photo, Obama in some sort of up-armored Kerry-esque bunny suit. Another possible reason is who will and who will not show up at the Obama cult meetings there. What’s he do if 75k Iraqi’s decide to protest his promises to cut and run.
rw on May 27, 2008 at 7:28 PM
Is it Dove season yet?
upinak on May 27, 2008 at 7:30 PM
I think that’s closer to the truth.
Big S on May 27, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Dude, Obama is going to go to Iraq before the election. He’s just not going to share the spotlight with McCain.
McCain was guilty of a major gaffe when he declared that it was safe after visiting a market with body armor and a platoon of marines. His claim was more egregious than the ‘mission accomplished’ sign. He was chastised for his homer ism and cheer leading equivalent to Baghdad Bob on that trip.
McCain is going to lose this battle too. Watch Obama take the rug right out from under the war hero’s feet with a much ballyhooed trip to Iraq before the election.
ThackerAgency on May 27, 2008 at 7:30 PM
So much for engagement,heh? Bet if it was an invite to Iran from Dinnerjacket, he’s already half way there.
tomk59 on May 27, 2008 at 7:30 PM
How can you have a real debate about a place that one of the debaters refuses to visit to get a real understanding of?
NTWR on May 27, 2008 at 7:31 PM
If Mrs. Malkin can go over there and see for herself what is going on, why can’t Obamarama? Afraid to see the real picture? Afraid that the nutjobs that follow you would get p*ssed?
Maybe it’s as simple as no balz.
BobK on May 27, 2008 at 7:32 PM
Barack will only go if he can see the place where his African uncle went on Hajj, in the Holy City of Baghdad [sic], in 1945.
RBMN on May 27, 2008 at 7:32 PM
Obama with his head in the sand, “I can’t see any much progress, down in here.”
(Then Hillary pipes up, “I don’t feel noways Tired!”) OMG..
Chakra Hammer on May 27, 2008 at 7:32 PM
BS, Thacker. And, oh, I dunno, for the 10 billionth time, the mission accomplished banner was put up by the ship’s crew. They were headed home and their mission was accomplished.
tomk59 on May 27, 2008 at 7:33 PM
And our military wouldn’t be overstretched if it hadn’t been gutted by a certain former administration.
NTWR on May 27, 2008 at 7:33 PM
Tale of Two Fools
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 7:34 PM
The same way we got Rush Limbaugh telling conservatives to get out & vote for Hillary, and one of the dextrosphere’s most esteemed bloggers committed to writing her in.
Up is down; black is white. Cats and dogs, living together…
Operation Chaos.
Purple Fury on May 27, 2008 at 7:36 PM
McCain recently claimed that there “are neighborhoods in Baghdad where you and I could walk through those neighborhoods, today.” In a press conference after his Baghdad tour, McCain told a reporter that his visit to the market today was proof that you could indeed “walk freely” in some areas of Baghdad.
Unless everyone got this kind of protection, I’d say his comments about Americans being safe in Iraq at that time were a bit of a stretch. . . if not an outright disingenuous lie. Will Obama use it? Probably.
ThackerAgency on May 27, 2008 at 7:37 PM
How is he going to answer McCain’s “I will never surrender”?
PattyJ on May 27, 2008 at 7:39 PM
Shia, Kurds, Sunni, Christians. That place needs a Community Organizer™!
mred on May 27, 2008 at 7:39 PM
Are you talking about Bush I of Clinton I? I believe that military manpower went down under both. And Bush II has had almost 7 and a half years to build it back up.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 7:39 PM
Did you ever get the idea that anyone from the Senate or Congress whom go over would have the same “protection” and the fact that there are other who are not part of out government who have these protections as well.
upinak on May 27, 2008 at 7:40 PM
Interesting point. I also wonder what kind of reception Obama might get from the U.S. military folks there. I can imagine that some of them might have some uncomfortable questions for him.
AZCoyote on May 27, 2008 at 7:41 PM
And McCain will counter with Obama’s ignorance on the region’s languages and refusal to visit Iraq for 2 years while still calling for surrender.
amerpundit on May 27, 2008 at 7:41 PM
I dunno. Maybe by saying something like, “When I become President I will appoint you permanent Ambassador to Baghdad”.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 7:41 PM
Obama’s grandfather and uncle, however, are going.
profitsbeard on May 27, 2008 at 7:43 PM
I actually have a bookmark folder called Barry O’s Lies. It’s getting pretty big. Just added one to it :)
lsutiger on May 27, 2008 at 7:43 PM
4 1/2 years with RINO’s in Congress and the Senate undercutting his attempts (yes, that includes the Gang of 14 which include McCain, point taken), 2 years with a Pelosi controlled Congress that won’t fund the troops actually at war let alone help build up the military.
NTWR on May 27, 2008 at 7:43 PM
This is definitely a good line of attack for McCain but there are two problems.
1- ThackerAgency on May 27, 2008 at 7:30 PM is exactly right. Obama will absolutely go [again] before the election or he will lose.
2- See the again part from above:
Not sure if you know this but Obama went to Iraq in 2006 when it was much more violent. Saying that he doesn’t have the “balz” to go is kinda silly.
Especially considering he would be a much bigger target than Michelle.
12thman on May 27, 2008 at 7:44 PM
Commie-Obama would rather check in with Hugo Chavez than he had meet our troops and recognize their victory.
MB4: Clinton cut the military — Details here
tarpon on May 27, 2008 at 7:45 PM
And Obama will come back with the comments that we have spent too much in dollars and lives. We shouldn’t have been there in the first place. He never voted for the war. Now that our soldiers are winning the peace it’s time for them to come home. . . and American needs to take the ‘peace dividend’ during his office to give everyone health care. . . etc.
McCain flat out lied (for no reason and didn’t have to) during that trip and about how safe Americans would be in Iraq. You ever hear accusations resonate concerning a Republican lying? NO, nobody believes Republicans lie.
ThackerAgency on May 27, 2008 at 7:45 PM
You are one racist person Alla for daring BO to go to Iraq. Don’t you know he is a God so he knows all already. He does not need to go to Iraq cause he gets his talking points from George Sorros.
BroncosRock on May 27, 2008 at 7:46 PM
In spite of their kibitzing I thought that congress had passed all of Bush’s Iraq funding, including the supplementals.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 7:46 PM
If he’s talking about President Clinton, I couldn’t agree more. I have first hand experience of programs which certainly would have helped protect America being reduced or cut durring his administration.
12thman on May 27, 2008 at 7:46 PM
I didn’t know he’d gone. Thanks.
But you’re right, he would be a bigger target. I mean, he could get shot just going to get gas!
NTWR on May 27, 2008 at 7:46 PM
Osambama believes Hillary and is afraid they’d shoot at him.
davidk on May 27, 2008 at 7:47 PM
Obama believes that the problem is lack of political progress among various factions in the Iraqi government, but Mr. Hopey McChangerton can’t unite the country, listen to opposing points of view, offer change we can believe in and solve Iraq’s political issues through the sheer power of Hope?
Color me flabbergasted. Here I thought he could use his messiah powers to heal all wounds, foreign and domestic. I’m so crushed.
Hollowpoint on May 27, 2008 at 7:48 PM
Do you really want to know?
upinak on May 27, 2008 at 7:49 PM
The cajones he’d need to gain wouldn’t be for visiting a war zone, but rather for facing the fact the situation has improved drastically.
As for visiting in order to prevent an election loss, he very well could visit, but I wouldn’t put it past him not to. This is the same man who makes stories up whole sale, continuously shows his ignoranance of history and geography, and attended Rev. Hate Whitey and Damn America’s church for 20 years. The media covers for him, but he’s not exactly the most politically savvy person.
amerpundit on May 27, 2008 at 7:49 PM
Not the most recent one. They scrapped it after we got all mad about Feinstain and Craig trying to sneak an amnesty in. They had to pull the amnesty, so now they are fighting back by holding back funding for the troops.
NTWR on May 27, 2008 at 7:49 PM
12thman at 7:44 PM;
Then he should have no problem going now. If he didn’t like it being on McCain’s terms, than as AllahP suggested, he could have countered with his own plan. Instead he fell back on the same lame talking points the dems have been using for years.
tomk59 on May 27, 2008 at 7:51 PM
What a wuss. I am a 56 year old female and I am tougher than this weenie Barack. I guess he can hide under a bed until November.
Terrye on May 27, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Congress and the Senate passed the GI bills. They will have to pass the war funding, wether they want to or not.
upinak on May 27, 2008 at 7:52 PM
true enough.
If he doesn’t go back pre-November I would say it would be the biggest political blunder of my voting life and (assuming he loses) his top advisors will never work again in DC.
12thman on May 27, 2008 at 7:52 PM
WTF?
ThePrez on May 27, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Problem is, Obama will have written his reaction to the trip before he even goes. It will all come down to “No political progress”.
Unfortunately for him, that can be disproved here and also here.
“…“Talabani reiterated his assertion that Iraqis are living a great political atmosphere after the recent security achievements since the beginning of Basra and Sadr City until Um al-Rabeieen operation in Mosul, where security forces proved their abilities and took control after tracking down gunmen,” the statement added…”
It’s not miraculous progress, but it is progress.
Nelsa on May 27, 2008 at 7:53 PM
Pretty sure that whole unfinished primary thing is higher on his list.
12thman on May 27, 2008 at 7:53 PM
12th man:
He went, he hid out, he came right back. I say the man does not have the balls to go because he is afraid he will look bad if he can not find enough to bitch about. Good Lord even Nancy Pelosi went to Iraq.
Terrye on May 27, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Last time anybody bothered to look, Maliki’s Iraqi forces went into Sadr City unassisted and took over the place, with Mookie and his goons nowhere to be found. They also went into Mosul unassisted and rounded up over 1,000 terrorists. And nary a peep about American or civilian casualties, even from the MSM.
If the Iraqi Army had tried that in 2006, when Obama last visited Iraq, they might not make it back. But the Great Anointed One saith there have not been political changes, and thou shalt not contradict him!
Maybe Obama isn’t afraid of McCain, but of Maliki. What would Maliki say to Obama, face-to-face in his own war-ravaged country, that he has struggled to pacify, to a traitor who denies the obvious for political gain?
McCain should keep hammering this theme. Obama, the would-be Commander-in-Chief, who would charm Ahmadinejad out of his nukes with his words of wisdom, afraid to look an ally (Maliki) in the eye.
Steve Z on May 27, 2008 at 7:54 PM
Could be , 12thman. My point is he got challenged, and did a poor job of answering that challenge.
tomk59 on May 27, 2008 at 7:55 PM
2thman:
excuses excuses. I am sure that McCain would be more than happy to make the trip at Mr. Obama’s convenience. After all, Barack has been a Senator for 3 years and has spent 2 years running for President, it is not as if he has anything else to do.
Terrye on May 27, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Anyone who served under Clinton can say that. The stories we could share.
upinak on May 27, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Yes I know that he did. that is why I said -
I just did a quick look at the article in your link and didn’t see any mention of how much military manpower went down under Bush I. Nor did I see any mention of how little it went up under Bush II. The article is from September 15, 2000, so it did not get into that, but they could have done a follow-up covering Bush II and at least made some summary of military manpower changes under Bush I. Maybe they went up under Bush I, but I seem to recall them going down and not much has changed under 7 and a half years of Bush II.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 7:57 PM
And the Iraqi government has accomplished more than the present Congress has in terms of reconciliation. They are actually trying. Threatening to abandon the country and let it devolve into chaos is irresponsible and stupid.
Terrye on May 27, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Why demonstrate what is wrong with Iraq? The Obama voters already know what is wrong with Iraq. Let’s talk about those seating arrangements at the Tehran conference.
Limerick on May 27, 2008 at 8:00 PM
12thman on May 27, 2008 at 7:44 PM
So the jihadis endorse him, only to try to shoot him later?
DaveS on May 27, 2008 at 8:02 PM
MB4:
Not much has changed? I don’t know, my family down at Fort Sill tell me different.
Terrye on May 27, 2008 at 8:02 PM
I enlisted under Clinton, thankfully I only had a few years toward the end.
Squid Shark on May 27, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Amnesty? Maybe Juan has some thoughts on that?
In any case it’s probably very likely that they will pass it before $$$ runs out. Congress does this type of thing a lot on matters non-military too. It is in their nature.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Family down at Fort Sill? Ask them what MB4 is then. They should know off the top of the head’s.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Get the ads rolling!
WisCon on May 27, 2008 at 8:12 PM
Tactically, McCain should now sit on this until the first debate, then ask Obama point-blank with the nation watching whether he would go with McCain to Iraq. It sets the stage for that with getting his first refusal on record. This also aims at Obama’s supposed inability to adapt quickly when things veer from what’s on the teleprompter.
tagryn on May 27, 2008 at 8:18 PM
And Bush II has had almost 7 and a half years to build it back up.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 7:39 PM
Extremely foolish comment. We are fighting wars in (2) countries. We have changed, altered, and created agencies necessary to protect the American homeland from further attacks. We have spent billions modifying our military to meet demands specific to the type of war (enemy) we are fighting. We have (are) spending billions rebuilding (2) countries.
Keemo on May 27, 2008 at 8:21 PM
It’s called VICTORY
A good leader always leads from the front. If it was dangerous while he was walking around that market — more power to him. He so badly wanted victory and to avoid another catastrophe like Vietnam that he was willing to lay his own high value target a$$ on the line to create a false sense of stability to increase moral and make victory possible. Those were bleak times. If he needed to pretend there was security where there was none, it was a brave and patriotic thing.
tommylotto on May 27, 2008 at 8:25 PM
tommylotto on May 27, 2008 at 8:25 PM
Right the f*** on tommylotto… Enough with the girly-man attitudes on display from a few weak kneed folks above. Obama is a sissy and doesn’t belong in Iraq where real men walk the streets and bang heads.
Keemo on May 27, 2008 at 8:31 PM
Pathetic.
Theworldisnotenough on May 27, 2008 at 8:33 PM
But, but…imagine the bizarre scenario of OB actually accepting McCain’s challenge…i don’t like this kinda stuff, its too…err…first off, McCain had to make pretty damn sure that OB would not accept, or the whole thing would have just really gotten silly…these two dont need to be running around together in the grips of some globally witnessed pissing contest. Why doesnt McCain just go over there himself, while little OB looks weak and unauthoritative here at home…assuming the MSM would cover it decently, it would really show the contrast between them better, and McCain wouldnt be looking like hes making some political grandstand play.
surrounded on May 27, 2008 at 8:37 PM
Maybe obama’s iranian allies can provide his security? I know our folks wouldn’t mind at all… Reaper time….
elduende on May 27, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Obama went to Iraq once in 2006. McCain has been 8 times since 2003.
Nelsa on May 27, 2008 at 8:42 PM
yes i know that.
surrounded on May 27, 2008 at 8:43 PM
I’m talking about this particular developement in the race.
surrounded on May 27, 2008 at 8:43 PM
To answer the question you have to answer the basic cultural question of America. Why was “quagmire” so effective? Because we were losing, and losing bad. Why was “cut & run” so effective? Because it connotated losing. The basic cultural question is are we losing or are we winning? Since we are winning doves do not want to talk about Iraq. They are stripped naked by facts, their narrative exposed for what it is naked political opportunism, and cowardice.
We as Americans hate to lose. We are winning and that is a problem for the Democrats. The sheer tsunami of poptential campaign ads over Iraq and the Democrats throwing themselves at defeat is a indictment they cannot hide from. They screwed themselves just like the last time they had congress.
You know the beauty of the whole thing? GOP ads about Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary’s “Willing suspension of disbelief” running right next to the MSM’s giddy predictions about a Democrat landslide in congress will make many in the middle all the more wary of a single party government and by extension Obama. We hedge our bets, and a middle convinced of a Democrat congress will be less likely to elect a Democrat for President and a Democrat in their district. My guess they choose the latter, and vote McCain in the general. No gaurantee’s just a hunch.
Theworldisnotenough on May 27, 2008 at 8:44 PM
YES YES YES
It would be interesting to see how Barry would respond if Maliki himself requested the meeting.
Purple Fury on May 27, 2008 at 8:44 PM
surrounded on May 27, 2008 at 8:37 PM
You’re a little late… McCain was recently in Iraq meeting and greeting our troops while Obama and Hillary were busy race bating each other while gaining 100% of the media attention.
Keemo on May 27, 2008 at 8:45 PM
That is definately true.
surrounded on May 27, 2008 at 8:45 PM
Keep forcing Obama on the issue then if he does ever go it’s because McCain made him. Beautiful.
- The Cat
MirCat on May 27, 2008 at 8:46 PM
Extremely vacuous comment. You must try to do better.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Could you elaborate on that? So Obama along with his Secret Service people arrives to an area, which is (hopefully) in control of his political opponents. Then he does… what? Specifically. Sneaks out of the Green Zone to the city?
freevillage on May 27, 2008 at 8:51 PM
Military size stats under Bush II -
2001 1,385,116 + 778
2002 1,411,634 +26,518
2003 1,434,377 +22,743
2004 1,426,836 -7,541
2005 1,389,394 -37,442
2006 1,384,968 -4,426
2007 1,379,551 -5,417
feb ‘08 1,374,256 -5,295
Down about 10,000
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 8:54 PM
Then again. They also exceeded all recruiting goals.
Nelsa on May 27, 2008 at 8:59 PM
LOL
LOL
ROFLMAO!!
Texas Gal on May 27, 2008 at 8:59 PM
Vacuous:
1 : emptied of or lacking content
2 : marked by lack of ideas or intelligence
Sorry MB4, obviously my comment went right over your head.
And Bush II has had almost 7 and a half years to build it back up.
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 7:39 PM
Now there was a comment totally outside the realm of “vacuous”! How bout elaborating on that statement; while your at it, maybe you can tie the information into the topic.
Keemo on May 27, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Goals, smoals.
2003 1,434,377 (start of Iraq war)
feb ‘08 1,374,256 (now)
Down almost 60,000
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 9:01 PM
I just set a goal for myself of doing 5 push-ups and I just exceeded that by 700% !!!
MB4 on May 27, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Great comeback! :)
I think there might be some other people that know how many troops we need and when we need them. At least I hope so!
Nelsa on May 27, 2008 at 9:05 PM
McCain should argue that Obama HAS to go to Iraq, because he’s obviously easily been able to ignore the progress happening there by not having to face it himself.
It’s harder to stare facts right in the face than from thousands of miles away, hiding behind the skirts of advisers and the New York Times.
Seixon on May 27, 2008 at 9:05 PM
A tidbit about Obama’s visit to Iraq circa 2006, from is own website:
Not in Iraq, mind you, but Kuwait. In any case, there’s nothing like playing ball with a surrendercrat who wants to meet with Ahmadinijead without preconditions to boost one’s morale.
Buy Danish on May 27, 2008 at 9:10 PM
I realize that, but i watched some of the coverage at that time, and though there wasnt much, what i saw was impactful.
Ok, i get the point, this just seems so overtly political.
Hell it doesnt matter to me what they do, im gonna have a glass of wine.
surrounded on May 27, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Two decommissioned carriers, Kenndy and Kitty Hawk….that’s 10,000 right there.
Limerick on May 27, 2008 at 9:11 PM
sorry Consellation, not Kitty Hawk
Limerick on May 27, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Constellation (damnit Lim)
Limerick on May 27, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Didn’t we just commision the new carrier Bush41in 2006. Out with old and in with new. That must be +5,000 right there.
Nelsa on May 27, 2008 at 9:25 PM
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