Team McCain: Immigration statement poorly worded
posted at 12:45 pm on May 23, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Jim Geraghty reached out to the John McCain campaign to ask them …. well, to ask them what the hell John McCain was thinking yesterday. Instead of dancing around it, Geraghty’s source acknowledged the damage done by the statement, but insisted it was just an example of poor wording. Their commitment to border security first has not changed, they said:
I doubt this will mitigate the anger of bloggers like John Hawkins much, but Team McCain tells me there’s been no change in his stance on immigration — secure the border first, deal with other aspects of illegal immigration once the border is secure. Recently, McCain made comments that seemed to suggest he was eager to get to the second part, which conservatives and border security types are understandably wary about. ….
Team McCain tells me the senator’s comments were poorly worded. There’s been no discussion within the campaign of altering their stance on illegal immigration, and as far as everyone on the campaign is concerned, the policy is still, ‘secure the border first.’
If so, then Senator McCain needs to make a rather high-profile attempt to clear up the confusion. I didn’t think he had departed from his previous positions, but clearly that was the impression that was left with people, and not necessarily unreasonably so.
It’s admirable that they acknowledged the mistake, but McCain needs to perform better now that he’s won the nomination, especially on this hot-button issue. He has to know that a large number of conservatives mistrust him on this specific issue, and that anything said on the trail about immigration will get very close scrutiny. He can’t afford missteps like this.
Blowback
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Adjurn to the nearest pub.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Adjourn.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:15 PM
No one should doubt the desire of the Iraqi people for freedom. Their civilians have died in far greater numbers than have our military, murdereed by Al Qaeda, Baathists, and Mahdist thugs, and yet they have voted in three national elections, braving suicide bombers, mortars, RPGs, snipers, and death threats to themselves and their families, at a greater percentage of voting population than we do here in the absence of such dangers.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:16 PM
I would not have noticed the difference.
Limerick on May 23, 2008 at 5:17 PM
You talk about a genocidal massacre. Who would do this genocidal massacre? The minority Sunnis would genocidal massacre Shiites? The majority Shiites would genocidal massacre Sunnis? If enough of them hate the other anything like that much how can they ever build any kind of nation there? We would have to stay forever. And please don’t say that AQI would do this genocidal massacre as there are not anywhere remotely enough of them.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 5:17 PM
So the US governemnt can screw the American people all it wants, as long as it is honorable towards foreigners? Sounds like self-hating Americanism to me.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:17 PM
No, we’re “celebrating diversity”. Uggghhhh.
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 5:18 PM
I want BOTH border security and perseverence in the GWOT, but if I have to choose between only the GWOT or neither, I’ll take what I can get.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:18 PM
In a war of demographics conservatives reproduce, and Mormons reproduce with gusto, while progressives.. not so much. If immigration both legal, and illegal had never started in 1965 then today would be a much more conservative landscape, and that’s his argument.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 5:19 PM
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Flenser, take a drink of water or something. Just because I interjected a comment doesn’t mean I meant anything other than what I said.
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 5:19 PM
Anyone can die. What they need to do if they want liberty is fight for it. We cannot give it to them.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:20 PM
There don’t have to be many Al Qaedans to suicide-bomb the factions into conflict; it didn’t take many of them to blow up the Golden Mosque, or to decimate open markets, or to drive carbombs into schools.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:20 PM
If that is anything like true (and it would rather much defy the koran)then they should be able to stand on their own by now. I think that the Iraqi army alone has something like 300,000 +/- troops.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 5:20 PM
We can help them fight for it. Wanting liberty is not enouigh if the despots have all the guns; just ask a thousand dead monks floating in a Burmese river.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:21 PM
The Iraqi Army is indeed coming along well; for instance, their actions in Basra, Baghdad, and now Mosul. But who runs 95 yards in a 100 yard race, then tosses down the baton and walks away|? Us?
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:22 PM
As I have pointed out already, you don’t get a choice re the WOT. If the Dems pick up Senate seats they can end the war any time they like. And they will pick up seats. So McCain is not going to be a factor.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:23 PM
That is not what you were talking about. You were talking about a genocidal massacre. And if that would set the Shiites or the Sunnis off to genocidal massacre the other for what Al Q did then they are hopeless.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Perhaps they want to be free, but it remains to be seen whether or not they understand the principle of liberty. (See Thomas Paine above).
Too often it seems the story is freedom for me, but not for thee.
INC on May 23, 2008 at 5:23 PM
The question is not whether they love freedom, but what they intend to do with it.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 5:24 PM
They don’t have all the guns.
From what I can gather of your aims we’re about at the ten yard line. Sorting out Iraq to your satisfaction will require sorting out the entire Middle East.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:26 PM
Frankly Salamantis, with your Apocalyptic Genocidal Massacre you are sounding a lot like Al Gore with his Apocalyptic Global Warming.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 5:26 PM
There is indeed hope. It seems that lessons had been learned. A few weeks ago, Al Qaeda went back, and hit what was left of that mosque, trying to duplicate the internecine conflict they sparked when they did it the first time, but this time, rather than set upon each other, both Sunnis and Shia condemned Al Qaeda for the attack. I hope this understanding holds.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:27 PM
We have been there for 62 months so if we are 95/100 of the way there that would leave just over 3 months left. Sound good to me.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Yeah, I know, MB4…I’m sounding like people who were warning about Al Qaeda in 1999. But not like the Goracle; I’m taking about human beings, not the environment.
And flenser, the LAST thing we need to do is leave Iraq. Right now, we have a presence on both iran’s eastern and western flank. Why remove the larger of those two presences now, when we need more pressure, not less, to dissuade them from building nukes, and more presence, not less, is we have to act because they refuse to be dissuaded?
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:31 PM
One mans genocide.. Speaking from the kufir point of view would it be a bad thing if Iran and Saudi got caught in an extended, bloody, proxy war?
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 5:32 PM
Can anybody recommend a good movie?
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 5:32 PM
MB4, it’s more like a football game, I guess; the last yards are the hardest ones to gain, and take more plays (time) per yard.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:33 PM
The problem is that Iran has a million man army, while Saudi Arabia has nothing even close to that. If they went to war, Iranian divisions would be marching through Saudi sands in short order.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:34 PM
Man, I love this discussion. If my brain could become physically aroused by political discourse we’d all be in trouble now.
I’m buying a virtual Friday round for everyone. Especially now that I’m past that mid-morning freak-out.
NTWR on May 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM
With our oil money Saudi can farm it out. I hear It’s a global economy. India has some fine call centers, and nukes.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Here’s the other thing: a Saudi-Iran war would shut down all oil from the Middle East. Yes, that would really hurt the global economy, but it would be devastating to Iran, which doesn’t have the cash surpluses that Saudi Arabia does. So they’d have to blitzkrieg the Saudis, both to seize their assets to avoid economic collapes and to beat them quickly so they could twist open the spigot again.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Here is a tie in that works for everybody. Use illegal immigrants to fight the war that the Saudis wont.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 5:46 PM
I hear you. But you don’t seem to understand that it is exactly that sort of argument which is sweeping the GOP out of power.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:48 PM
I’m in favor of granting Mexicans American citizenship, if they learn english and serve a tour in our military. Why not? We do it with the Phillipines. And what better way to make patriotic Americans out of them than to have them fight for our country?
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:48 PM
But flenser, it’s the RIGHT argument…the fact that it may be unpopular doesn’t shange the fact that it’s right. What we need to do is sell the truth.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:49 PM
Are you familiar with Rome? They had an ideal to fill their legions with barbarians. What could go wrong?
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Absurd. If Americans won’t fight in Americas wars than America has no business getting into wars. Farming out your fighting to foreign mercenaries is an idea with a terrible track record.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Yeah, but in the case of Rome, there were many more barbarians than Romans. The US population is five + times that of Mexico.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:52 PM
I served in the US Navy with Filipino sailors, and they were just as good as the rest of us, and perhaps even more patriotic towards the US.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:53 PM
You don’t get this whole democracy thing. The people get to say what is right. And they are saying they have had enough of us fighting in the Middle East.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:53 PM
PS: mercernaries are people who claim allegiance to no flag, and fight for whoever pays them. These were people who were willing to defend ur country in order to join it.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:55 PM
Wonderful. My point stands. If Americans won’t fight in Americas wars, the government has no business hiring foreigners to do it. And paying them with US citizenship adds insult to injury.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:55 PM
If we quit this thing before it’s time to do so, we’ll be back, of necessity, and under much more unfavorable circumstances.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 5:56 PM
In return for money. And US citizenship, which equals money. I don’t think they are noble.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM
When will it be time to do so? What has to happen first?
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 5:57 PM
So you think Juan McCain is just in a love affair with Mexico, but I think he’s a swinger, baby, and he can love immigrants regardless of their origin. We are only 4% of the worlds population.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Umm…our volunteer military is doing fine, with both retention and recruitment. The leading Marine regiment achieved 152% of its last goal. If it weren’t for the fact that we’re adding numbers to our services, people would have had be turned away. The highest recruitment and retention numbers are for units that deploy in Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s not because people don’t want to become soldiers and fight.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:00 PM
Geez, I wish you would not make up stuff like that. Mexico has a population of one hundred million. The US, 300 million, which includes about twenty million illegal aliens, many from Mexico. And remember, there are plenty of more people throughout Central and South America.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:01 PM
.
No, the ‘illegal immigration is the only issue’ folks are calling everyone else liberal, and the trolls are out in force now.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 6:01 PM
Then why the urge to start handing out US citizenship to Mexicans in return for enlisting?
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:02 PM
It will be time to leave when the Iraqis can defend their government, their citizens, their territory and their borders in a rough corner of the world, surrounded by regimes that fear precisely what we desire; that the success of constitutional democracy in Iraq will cause their own citizens to want it for themselves.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:02 PM
You are a liberal, think_b4. Or a libertarian, same difference.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:03 PM
.
It is a bad thing, but expected. It wouldn’t be proxy, it would be Sunni vs Shiite and severely restrict traffic through the straits of Hormuz. It is expected, though, note the thousands of condos being built in UAE by Saudis, Iranians, etc who think it will be a safe haven for civilians when the shooting starts.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 6:04 PM
What’s stopping them from doing that now?
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:04 PM
.
Wrong – would you like another turn? God, what an ignorant buffoon you are – next you’ll be calling me a nazi.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 6:05 PM
flenser is right about the US population being 3 times the Mexican population, not 5, but they count the illegals in the US as part of Mexico’s population (birth certificates + no death certificates).
I’d rather a Mexican who is willing to fight for our country become a citizen than one who just wants to work here, and can’t be bothered with waiting in line.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:06 PM
When Iran’s nuclear capabilities are neutralized.
a capella on May 23, 2008 at 6:06 PM
They’re well on their way to doing that now, flenser, but they need more time to finish their troop training (we do that) and consolidate their control. I also don’t want our forces to leave the field when there is still a substantial Al Qaeda presence in Mosul. We should clean out that rat’s nest before we leave – and we are in the process of doing so.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:09 PM
a capella has it right, strategically speaking.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:10 PM
People – it is time to face facts and get back on subject. We have lost the amnesty issue, as McCain and Obama are the two possibilities for president. Our best case is to try and influence the final bill.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 6:10 PM
I count the illegals in the US as part of Mexico’s population.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 6:13 PM
The biggest reason that we are staying in Iraq is Iran. Iraninan president Ahmedinejad is a member of an apocalyptic cult within Shia Islam known as the Hojetiyyah; their goal is to hasten the Shia Second Coming, of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi (for which Sadr’s militia is named). The way to do that is to sow discord and global chaos, for it is only to end an armageddon and establish the Global Caliphate that the Mahdi is supposed to return. Of course, the preferred way to do so for Ahmadinejad, who has already promised to ‘wipe Israel off the map’, would be to attack Israel with nuclear weapons, and have Israel then engage in a Samson-like response; unable, in their small land area, to continue as a nation with most of their territory radioactive, they would launch their own (estimated 200) nukes in response, and bring their enemies down with them. Do not think that this religious nut is anything but serious; he truly believes that the Mahdi has been sitting at the bottom of an Iranian well for hundreds of years, and has actually built a highway from this well’s location to Teheran, so when the Mahdi emerges, he’ll have no problems finding his way back. It is direly necessary that we maintain our surrounding of Iran, both to the east (in Afghanistan) and to the west (in Iraq), so that if they get close to actually creating a nuke, we can invade and stop them, probably prceded by deposing Assad in Syria, so we could use their western Mediterranean ports as a means to move massive amounts of troops and materiel to the field of battle, and so prevent a global catastrophe of massive and unprecedented proportions. But it is in Iran’s interests to coerce us to leave, by using his proxy in Iraq, Al Sadr, and his Mahdi Militia, much as he had his proxy in Lebanon, Nasrallah and the Hizbullah, provoke a war on Israel’s northern border to distract world attention form the International Atomic Enforcement Agency’s condemnation of his nuclear program. Do not believe that a nation sitting on a pool of oil needs nuclear power plants for energy; they are simply engaging in taqqiya, a Muslim doctrine whereby, in the interests of advancing the cause of the Ummah and the Global Caliphate, lying to the infidels concerning one’s intentions is prescribed.
And nuclear deterrence does not work on fanatics who desire an apocalyptic nuclear Armageddon for religious reasons.
That’s the world we’re living in right now, and why, with an eye towards the world our children will be living in, we must succeed in Iraq – and beyond.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Who is this “we”? And their are many possibilities for President.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:17 PM
That genie is so out of the bottle. We would have to actually be ruthless to suppress that technology, and we just don’t have the heart for it these days.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 6:17 PM
.
Let me clarify that. McCain and Obama are the two possibilities in a rational world.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 6:19 PM
I don’t see how that’s our problem.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:21 PM
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:23 PM
.
Troll alert
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 6:24 PM
There you go, you just boarded the crazy train, and now I’m crazy by association. Who is going to be President? I want it to be someone other than the three blind mice we have running, but it’s just not realistic to believe that. The only likely possibility is an untimely death after McCain takes office. It’s the only scenario that isn’t out there.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 6:26 PM
BTW: This would also kill a lot of Palestinians, but that presents no theological problems; they’d just be accepted, as martyrs, into Paradise.
Let me tell you a story:
Back in Carter’s day, Jimmeh cut the Shah off at the knees, called Khomeini a ‘righteous man’, greased the wheels for his return to Iran from exile in france, and offered the cancer ridden Shah sanctuary in the US in his final days. The stage was set for rapprochement between our countries.
Then Bani Sadr, their first President, made the mistake of allowing his photograph be taken shaking the hands of members of a high-level US delegation in Tehran. The picture hit the Tehran newspapers in a few days.
The Hojetiyyists, who were, believe it or not, outlawed by Khomeini during his reign as too extreme, were incensed. So, within days of the picture’s appearance, and led by a young fanatical student, they stormed the US Embassy, and took our embassy personnel hostage.
The fledgling government of Iran was stuck. They were afraid to crack down on the students, because that would be taking the side of those who had imposed the Shah upon them in the first place (to prevent a communist Mossadegh from inviting the Soviets in and giving them access to the Persian Gulf) against their own people, who were loudly proclaiming themselves to be loyal and patriotic revolutionary Iranians. So instead, the Iranians supported the embassy occupiers, who held onto 52 of our hostages for 444 days, and the infant US-Iranian detente was strangled in its crib.
The leader of that band of embassy-stormers was Mahmoud Ahmedinejad.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:28 PM
Don’t worry, we all ready picked up on you.
Whoever the American people vote for. Believe it or not, there is law law mandating that everyone vote for either the Democrat or the Republican. This herd-like behavior does not sit well with conservatives view of themselves as individualists.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:30 PM
The problem, flenser, is that if the Middle east goes boom with 200+ Israeli nukes, global radiation levels would skyrocket, Persian Gulf oil could not be accessed for decades, and we might be tipped into a nuclear winter.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Salamantis, we all know the Iranians are bad guys. But you’re operating in a political vacuum here. There is barely enough support to stay in Iraq a little longer. Iran is not going to be toppled.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Come ON. Don’t make me lose respect for you.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:34 PM
You think the general conservative American public is suddenly going to become aware enough about the issues to be upset with their choices? Once I would of liked to have believed that myself, but then I read an exit poll question from one of the state primaries the question was “who do you think is most competent to deal with illegal immigration”, and do you know what these fine republicans said? Over 50% percent of them said McCain, and that was the point I lost hope.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Our policy must be that, so long as Hojjatiyyist retain power and influence in Iran, they cannot be allowed to develop nukes. Whatever it costs us in blood and treasure to change that regime beforehand will be massively dwarfed by the global cost of a fanatically fervent and zealous Hojetiyyist cult obtaining nukes, then commiting regional thermonuclear homicide/genocide/suicide in the service of a religious prophetic vision.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:39 PM
CORRECTED.
landlines on May 23, 2008 at 6:41 PM
we might be tipped into a nuclear winter.
Come ON. Don’t make me lose respect for you.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:34 PM
We’re not talking 200 Hiroshimas here; each of Israel’s nukes is many orders of magnitude more powerful.
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0517080931?filterBy=addThreeStar
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:43 PM
Has anyone seen a great movie lately? Come on, I need a good recommendation.
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM
I’m afraid you will not convince the American people of that, and they ultimately have the say. The reality is that there will by a comfortable Democratic majority in the Senate next year. If they want us out of the Mid-East, as they seem to, then that is what will happen.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:51 PM
I saw “Doom: The Movie” recently. As a recovering Doom addict, I found it great.
Of course, I started playing again.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:52 PM
I’m going with “The Sum of All Fears”.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 6:54 PM
That also is the reason why there is a third party opening, if people become aware of McCains positions on all the issues.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:56 PM
If the Democrats force us out of the Middle East before we can deal with Iran, I fear for our country, and more than that, I fear for our world.
Salamantis on May 23, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Those same people were majority against illegal immigration, yet they thought McCain was qualified to address the issue. This meant they didn’t know what McCain’s position was, and this was just a few short months after the failed amnesty. If these people didn’t know his position after the McCain-Kennedy amnesty then they are never going to become conscious enough to launch the kind of coup you imagine.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 7:04 PM
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 6:52 PM
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 6:54 PM
Thanks.
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 7:06 PM
Go rent, “I Love you to Death” It’s a good laugh based on a true story.
Bikerken on May 23, 2008 at 7:08 PM
I haven’t seen a good movie since that fella shot Liberty Valance.
Limerick on May 23, 2008 at 7:13 PM
Citizenship should not be ‘bought’; not with service, not with money, not with promises. It should be granted through the conventional accepted forms; by birth to parents who are US citizens (this is what the original interpretation of the 14th was, not just to anyone who happened to be here), or through the legal process of granting citizenship to a legal resident alien.
If a third party candidate (or candidates), won enough electoral college votes so as to deny either the GOP or Dem nominee a majority, what would happen?
Salamantis is correct; there is a yearning and movement in Iraq to be free and we should help them achieve that. Our war for independence took 8 years and Iraqis are fighting corruption and decay that has been institutionalised for nearly 3 decades. Come on; the progress is real and the direction is positive. We should not abandon Iraq.
The GWOT and illegal immigration are inexorably intertwined and Iraq us just one front in the battle against militant Islam. McCain is horrible on the latter, so instead of allowing al-Qaeda in through the front door, he’ll leave the back one unlocked. The result is the same, unfortunately; the US is already infiltrated by the likes of Adnan el-Shukrijuma, and through our porous Southern border no less. Both parties have sold America out for populism aimed at the Latino caucus, in the hope that the greatest hero to said voting bloc will receive the majority of votes from them. It’s that simple. Populism and demagoguery by the Democrats is nothing new, but that it has extended so grossly to the GOP disgusts me.
Legal immigrants made our country great, and no one should have a leg up because we have a porous Southern border. For goodness sake, if Cubans coming to America can be turned around and sent back to certain imprisonment or death if they’re not close enough to America when they’re discovered, surely we can put our foot down concerning illegals flooding our borders through Mexico.
linlithgow on May 23, 2008 at 7:16 PM
The Last Mimzy. It’s a couple of years old, but I just saw it. Based on a science fiction short story. And your kids can watch too.
Not too much commie liberalism in it.
misterpeasea on May 23, 2008 at 7:19 PM
Limerick on May 23, 2008 at 7:13 PM
I like your style, Limerick.
Thanks for the tip…
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 7:19 PM
Bikerken on May 23, 2008 at 7:08 PM
Kevin Kline and Tracy Ullman?
Just watched the preview on Netflix. Looks good!
Thanks.
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Sallysam-
Loved Iron Man; the beginning was a bit odd and fantastic but it turned out to not be all mamby-pamby anti-war and the special effects kicked @ss. Robert Downey Jr. is a hell of an actor, and Jeff Bridges was creepy.
Hope to see Narnia within the next few days, and Indy next week, although I’m nervous about the latter, especially in light of Lucas’ lapse in story telling ability in the last 3 Star Wars movies.
linlithgow on May 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Help if I could type correctly… Saltysam I mean.
linlithgow on May 23, 2008 at 7:21 PM
So here is what I’m hearing on this thread. The American people cannot be roused to take fairly simple and painless action in their own defence here at home. (Not a “coup”.)
But they can be counted on to fight a generations long war against a shadowy and ill-defined enemy on the other side of the globe.
I think the people you need to do the latter would be the sort who would do the former.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 7:29 PM
misterpeasea on May 23, 2008 at 7:19 PM
Thanks. I have kids, too. Maybe tomorrow on that.
Have you ever seen “The Return”?
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 7:29 PM
linlithgow on May 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM
My wife was JUST asking about that flick. She said she heard it was good too.
Thanks.
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 7:31 PM
If you like oldies (not too old-77) and something different rent Peckinpah’s ‘Cross of Iron’, (James Colburn). One of my favs. German soldiers on the eastern front without all the goose-stepping crap thrown in. Kill or be killed kinda story.
Limerick on May 23, 2008 at 7:35 PM
Great Wartime Classics:
Sergeant York (1941)
Patton (1970)
…
maverick muse on May 23, 2008 at 7:38 PM
The former is mine but the latter isn’t, and I didn’t mean a literal coup, but an electorial one. I can understand why people aren’t interested in politics, but they aren’t.
I can see their eyes glaze over when I talk to them about foreign policy, or immigration. They get that cornered look, eyes shifting around trying to find a way out. I have my best luck on long car or plane trips, since the tight spaces make it difficult for them to get away.
DFCtomm on May 23, 2008 at 7:43 PM
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