Team McCain: Immigration statement poorly worded
posted at 12:45 pm on May 23, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Jim Geraghty reached out to the John McCain campaign to ask them …. well, to ask them what the hell John McCain was thinking yesterday. Instead of dancing around it, Geraghty’s source acknowledged the damage done by the statement, but insisted it was just an example of poor wording. Their commitment to border security first has not changed, they said:
I doubt this will mitigate the anger of bloggers like John Hawkins much, but Team McCain tells me there’s been no change in his stance on immigration — secure the border first, deal with other aspects of illegal immigration once the border is secure. Recently, McCain made comments that seemed to suggest he was eager to get to the second part, which conservatives and border security types are understandably wary about. ….
Team McCain tells me the senator’s comments were poorly worded. There’s been no discussion within the campaign of altering their stance on illegal immigration, and as far as everyone on the campaign is concerned, the policy is still, ’secure the border first.’
If so, then Senator McCain needs to make a rather high-profile attempt to clear up the confusion. I didn’t think he had departed from his previous positions, but clearly that was the impression that was left with people, and not necessarily unreasonably so.
It’s admirable that they acknowledged the mistake, but McCain needs to perform better now that he’s won the nomination, especially on this hot-button issue. He has to know that a large number of conservatives mistrust him on this specific issue, and that anything said on the trail about immigration will get very close scrutiny. He can’t afford missteps like this.
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anybody believes that mccain is going to enforce the borders is nuts.
these ‘poorly worded’ statements are what mccain believes, and he thinks he can fool us po dumb hicks….
think again juanny!!
right4life on May 23, 2008 at 12:47 PM
hey, do I get a prize for being the first to comment???
right4life on May 23, 2008 at 12:48 PM
I didn’t think McCain had departed from his previous position either, Ed, but the McCain-haters had a field day.
jgapinoy on May 23, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Sorry, we’re not participating in the spectacularly stupid “points” contest at Team McCain. ;-)
Ed Morrissey on May 23, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Rope a dope.
redrock on May 23, 2008 at 12:49 PM
He didn’t acknowledge any mistake, other than letting his true intentions slip. Securing the border is lip service and nothing more. He wants amnesty for 20 million people breaking the law daily.
I mean, he’s wanted amnesty for years and while he was campaigning for his supposed base he slightly altered his rhetoric. But, we’re supposed to believe the slight change versus years of hard-line campaigning for amnesty, and that this was just ‘poorly worded’?
Seriously??
Darksean on May 23, 2008 at 12:49 PM
In that his statement dind’t depart from his previous position of wanting amnesty for 20 million lawbreakers, you are correct.
Question: Why are you so desperate to believe his politically expedient slight change of supposedly securing the borders first is really a true and honest sea change? What history of Juan do you have to back this up?
Darksean on May 23, 2008 at 12:52 PM
oh well, as I learned when dating, it never hurts to ask…
right4life on May 23, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Lying. Pig.
Spanglemaker on May 23, 2008 at 12:54 PM
“…what I meant to say was, we’re gonna line up all the illegals on the north bank of the Big River and kick ‘em in their collective arse. We hope that they will infer from this that they should immediately swim home.”
Akzed on May 23, 2008 at 12:55 PM
(I can dream, no?)
Akzed on May 23, 2008 at 12:56 PM
congratulations, GoP.. you think 2006 was a bloodbath..
normsrevenge on May 23, 2008 at 12:56 PM
The Born Again must be considered guilty until proven innocent.
So, what’s his plan for border enforcement? He’s already got a Comprehensive Immigration Bill written up and ready to go.
BowHuntingTexas on May 23, 2008 at 12:56 PM
right………..
ctmom on May 23, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Expect him to make another poorly worded statement to La Raza in July.
Mark1971 on May 23, 2008 at 1:00 PM
from earlier
Capt,
As you will find here, reason plays no part with the playpen occupants. They are taking their ball and going home.
The jumping up and down will start in a few minutes.”
Same people, same place, same McCain, different subject, same responses. Oh god here they come.
Blah, blah, blah…….
patrick neid on May 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM
I will only believe jm on illegals when he gets rid of Juan Hermandez.
L
letget on May 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM
McCain is saying what he needs to say to get elected. Unfortunately for him, we’re not that stupid. We know where he stands on illegal immigration and it’s not securing the border and enforcing immigration laws.
katieanne on May 23, 2008 at 1:04 PM
McCain’s official position is better than any of the positions of Clinton or Obama. They want more voter fraud period end of story and do not dare ask any questions about it or you are a racist nativist bigot.
KW64 on May 23, 2008 at 1:05 PM
I will believe that his statement was poorly worded when, in July, at the LaRaza get together, he makes it unequivocally clear that he will not support, encourage or in any way aid and abet legalization of illegal aliens.
(crickets chirping)
JustPlainBill on May 23, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Funny ha ha.
Obama, Hillary and McCain have now all come out and had to apologize for “poorly worded” statements when in truth they meant every word they said and everybody knew it. These are not presidential people.
BigD on May 23, 2008 at 1:09 PM
Sorry McStain, McLettuce & McAmnesty but I’m calling
BULL$*!T on this one. A slip of the tongue? Please. Don’t pee on me & tell me it’s raining. Even during the most recent Ag issue on the war funding his office didn’t have a written statement against, I know because I called! Kyl’s office had one, why doesn’t the nominee have one? If you want to be the leader of this party than you need to be a LEADER not a sellout.
Btwn McStain & the interview I heard yesterday on Hannity’s show I’m not to confident about the Repub’s chances in the fall. Quit being wimps and start pushing back!
VikingGoneWild on May 23, 2008 at 1:10 PM
And I thought we could beat Barry in Nov.
My bad!
omnipotent on May 23, 2008 at 1:12 PM
John Hawkins couldn’t prevent the Republican base from supporting McCain in the primaries; what makes him think he can have any effect in the general? Seriously, the major cons bloggers and talk show hosts need to get over the idea that they’re movers of public opinion rather than echoes of it.
Brainster on May 23, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Could have stopped right there and that would be truthful for once.
A vote for McCain is a vote for amnesty.
A show of good faith, but not nearly enough for me, would be for Juan to get rid of Juan Hernandez and no speeches to LaRaza.
This so called GOP candidate is nothing more than a liberal running as a Republican. Sugar coat it anyway you want but it will always boil down to this.
voiceofreason on May 23, 2008 at 1:14 PM
“poor wording”???
What nonsense.
If McCain steps out and makes a CLEAR statement and disavows his Amnesrty position, then and only then, will I give him a pass.
Failing that I will continue to believe he is just another lying politician.
woodswalking1 on May 23, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Boy, it really is a sad day when all the presidential candidates are tripping over themselves in the rush to shamelessly pander to illegal Hispanics. The oath of office demands protecting the US as highest priority, but McCain will just brush it off like Obama’s flag lapel pin.
Do what you want, not what you are sworn to do.
All the candidates thuroughly and completely SUCK.
saiga on May 23, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Absolutely. Another case of “poor wording” would probably lose him much more than he would gain. That will be an extremely important speech.
a capella on May 23, 2008 at 1:19 PM
McCain only sucks.
Obama is absolutely intolerable.
You take your better lousy choice and work with it (the public prevented Shamnesty once, and, if it comes down it to, must do it again) or you cede to the worst candidate in American history chilling powers that he will only abuse like a mini-Mao clone.
profitsbeard on May 23, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Good. Like Ed said, make the “high profile public statement”, and make it now. I am all for a willful suspension of disbelief.
Jaibones on May 23, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Heard the interview, and it had the same effect on me. It’s a pretty grim outlook.
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 1:22 PM
McCain sux.
jaime on May 23, 2008 at 1:26 PM
It’s the Rove/Bush effect. They destroyed the party and their ongoing influence is continuing to do so. Of course Juan fits the mold like a glove.
voiceofreason on May 23, 2008 at 1:26 PM
OK, assume for the sake of argument that we will have some sort of amnesty, since all candidates still in contention support it (leaving out the possiblity that we can have a grassroots rebellion like last year and kill it). Who would you rather have write it – McCain or Obama or Hillary?
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 1:26 PM
Has he gotten rid of Juan Hernandez yet? No…I didn’t think so. %^%$ $%^$%$ &%$%$@ “We Are Screwed ‘08″
brtex on May 23, 2008 at 1:26 PM
I would really be surprized if Obama gets elected. People get the government they deserve, and I don’t think the USA voting puplic is that far down the $h1tter yet.
But, of course, I could be wrong.
saiga on May 23, 2008 at 1:27 PM
“Poorly worded” is a side effect of their campaign strategy.
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Which would you rather have, a sharp stick in the left eye or a broken bottle in the right eye.
Both suck really bad. McCain’s VP might help ease the excruciating pain slightly.
saiga on May 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM
I hereby dub the election year of 2008 as ……
The Year of the White-Out Candidates
Say it now, fix it later, insult the intelligence of the electorate week-in and week-out.
fogw on May 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Here is the key…
His campaign is saying one thing, the candidate another…
Just where do you think McCain’s position REALLY is? He as mch as said the voters have sent me a messege, if I want to get elected I need to talk about securing the borders first… and yet, when he is relaxed? speaking off the cuff? Amnesty rears its ugly head…
He only got PART of the messege from the voters.
Romeo13 on May 23, 2008 at 1:32 PM
The war is over upon amnesty being granted. It will obliterate the middle class (especially in the coming depression) and forever change the voting base in favor of Democrats.
Our battle is here and now if we want to save the party and the country.
To believe otherwise is mental masturbation in my opinion.
voiceofreason on May 23, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Better put that Obama video over here as well, Ed.
The only reason to vote McCain is Obama.
VolMagic on May 23, 2008 at 1:32 PM
I’m sure that is true. Their committment to border security was zero before, and it’s still zero.
You mean, he can’t afford to slip up and speak his mind. Remember, a gaffe in DC is when a politician accidently tells the truth.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Just remember what I told you about OL’ JUAN. HE ONCE THOUGHT HE MADE A MISTAKE, BUT HE WAS WRONG. Next it will be, “you heard me wrong, what I meant was BLAH, BLAH, BLAH”… Now, you got THAT, that’s what you should have heard. NOW BE QUIET!!!!
pueblo1032 on May 23, 2008 at 1:33 PM
McCain maintains his border security first position.
indythinker on May 23, 2008 at 1:34 PM
I call bullsh!t on McCain.
doubleplusundead on May 23, 2008 at 1:34 PM
The problem with the “secure the borders first” line is that he can do nothing and keep that promise. We actually need someone to DO.SOMETHING!
pecan pie on May 23, 2008 at 1:35 PM
What possible difference does it makes who writes it? You might as well ask who we’d like to be our executioner.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:35 PM
.
What battle? You have the choice of who will craft the actual legalization bill, that is all as far as I can tell.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 1:36 PM
There has been no change. He has always been very strongly in favor of amnesty. But this this pussy footing around just increases my determination to write in Bullwinkle. These DC types are really getting on my nerves.
snaggletoothie on May 23, 2008 at 1:37 PM
No doubt it was a mistake, but unfortunately the mistake was that although McCain’s won the nomination, he hasn’t yet won the general. If he does, only THEN can he safely drop all of his lies and get down to business implementing comprehensive immigration reform.
FloatingRock on May 23, 2008 at 1:38 PM
.
So why do we keep arguing? There is nothing to fight for except the manner in which amnesty is granted. My bet is that I would prefer McCain supervising it to Obama, maybe I am wrong.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 1:38 PM
If McCain really supports border security first, what’s stopping him from introducing such a bill in the Senate? Can a McCain supporter answer?
I don’t believe that more than one in ten McCain supporters really think he’s serious about border security. That would require some serious suspension of critical thinking.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:40 PM
McCain was specific – comprehensive immigration reform becomes a priority in January, 2009 – during a session with business leaders interested in cheap labor. He misspoke?
Pure bovine scat.
T J Green on May 23, 2008 at 1:40 PM
.
I should add that I also think it more likely that a lousy amnesty bill will be killed by McCain than by Obama, and that we have a larger chance of killing an amnesty bill in committee under McCain than Obama.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 1:41 PM
There is a passivity and inertness about you liberal Reps which I find irritating. There is no particular reason why the GOP needs to nominate McAmnesty, or why conservatives need to robotically pull the lever for whoever the GOP offers them. You can vote for anyone you like.
If you think McCain is the best possible candidate, then by all means vote for him.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Huh? You mean a lousy amnesty bill like…
Drumroll please…….
MCCAIN/Kennedy?
The one he helped WRITE!!!
Romeo13 on May 23, 2008 at 1:44 PM
This was not a misstep. This was the real McCain.
From Mickey Kaus: (I tried to replicate all of his emphases and links).
INC on May 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM
Explain why you think that, based on McCains record on amnesty.
At least the GOP will rally to defeat a Democratic amnesty. As we saw with Bush, a GOP amnesty gives cover to all sorts of turncoats.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:45 PM
.
I am most likely farther to the right than you. I live in a border state. I am incensed about illegal aliens; it is issue number two for me behind WOT. However, given that all of the people who have a shot at being president are in favor of amnesty, I am being a realist in trying to influence how that bill is crafted, to minimize the damage.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 1:47 PM
This was no misstep. This was the real McCain.
From Mickey Kaus:
INC on May 23, 2008 at 1:47 PM
I notice a trend.
Politician says something.
The proles go nuts.
Politician clarifies statement to make proles happy.
Proles don’t buy it.
Then: choose A or B
A.) Politician gets into office anyway and then screws the proles
B.) Politician doesn’t get into office because the proles were still angry, stayed home and didn’t vote.
GogglesPisano on May 23, 2008 at 1:47 PM
If you thought before writing, you might remember that the President does not craft legislation.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:48 PM
There is no confusion. McCain wants to satisfy his campaign contributers lust for the closest thing they can get to slave labor.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 1:48 PM
Ace of Spades makes a couple of points @ his HQ.
1. McCain only allows himself two months to certify border security.
2. McCain will leave the determination as to when a border is certified to the border governors.
maverick muse on May 23, 2008 at 1:49 PM
.
Good luck with that – have you not seen the congressional outlook?
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Yeah, they should get over themselves and shut up… just let conservatism die without a fight.
/sarc
FloatingRock on May 23, 2008 at 1:50 PM
maverick muse on May 23, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Perhaps if McCain said he wanted two years to certify border security that would give some credibility. But two months?
INC on May 23, 2008 at 1:51 PM
By Jeffrey Young
Posted: 05/21/08 07:45 PM [ET]
Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) is backing the renewal of a $250 million-a-year program that will pay illegal immigrants’ hospital bills.
The very idea that McCain is again supporting a program that some view as rewarding illegal immigrants is certain to attract attention from the same conservatives he’s trying to win over for the White House.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 1:51 PM
.
The president always has a hand in how legislation is worded, based on what he publicly states he will allow or fight. That is why I used the word craft instead of write.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 1:51 PM
What is it with you people and the WOT? The clear and present danger is from the enemy within our gates. Our non-existent gates. What is it about some Muslim whack-jobs on the other side of the globe that has you so scared that you’ll accept the end of conservatism in America?
How will supporting McAmnesty have any beneficial effect on how the Democrats in the Senate craft the amnesty bill? No doubt they’ll call it the “Ted Kennedy Memorial Amnesty Bil”, and McCain will rush to sign it and show his love for Teddy.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:53 PM
In this case they really are echoes of public opinion. CIR was opposed by huge numbers across the board when people really realized what was up.
The bloggers and talkers were the megaphone to get the message out. They alone didn’t make all those phone calls and write all those letters. The general public did that.
INC on May 23, 2008 at 1:53 PM
It’s an old used car salesman’s trick. Rush things through before the customer has enough time to realize that he is being taken.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Given the limited time allowance of only 2 months that McCain leaves for himself should he be POTUS, by contrast, Bush still has plenty of time to accomplish the “certification” of border security during his stay in office now that his Texas Ranch is completed with all of the security features of the White House.
maverick muse on May 23, 2008 at 1:54 PM
Is there some confusion in your mind about what McCain will allow or fight in an amnesty bill? Maybe you can explain what differences you think exist betwen McCain and Obama and Clinton when it comes to amnesty. McCain is the only one of the three who has dedicated the last ten years yo open borders.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:56 PM
profitsbeard on May 23, 2008 at 1:22 PM
If their is one reason to go with McCain, it’s this:
We will probably lose Congress…wholesale.
If McCain wins the White House, it may slow the rate at which we are losing ground, buying the rudderless conservative army some precious time to hold off, while we wait for a leader to emerge from a significant series of events that leaves the population open to conservative leadership.
This is piss poor ground to be fighting on, but what choice do we have?
Saltysam on May 23, 2008 at 1:57 PM
What is it with you people and the WOT? The clear and present danger is from the enemy within our gates. Our non-existent gates. What is it about some Muslim whack-jobs on the other side of the globe that has you so scared that you’ll accept the end of conservatism in America?
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:53 PM
.
I’ve been living it here on the border. I prefer fighting Islam first, and illegals second.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 1:59 PM
Poorly worded? Right. That’s why (My Friend) Juan Hernandez is still at Team McCain. That’s why he’s still meeting with La Raza in July too.
Get ready for this to happen at a national chain store near you if McCain gets his wish. I live in a area with a high number of illegals. They have flooded my community in the last five years. Right now, I’m in a fight with a national drugstore chain over the fact that the ads they play are in Spanish not English. I get a phone call from the manager of the store, and my daughter couldn’t understand a single word he said.
Right now, they win, as I’m taking my busiess elsewhere. There have been two other major chain stores that closed their doors as well because they too catered to Hispanics and learned a lesson too late.
I will never vote for McCain.
moonsbreath on May 23, 2008 at 1:59 PM
I don’t see how conservatives electing a liberal President slows the rate at which we are losing ground. It only confirms the widespread belief that conservatism is dead.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 1:59 PM
At this point I am not sweating McCain’s position on illegal immigration..as long as the bloggers, Lou Dobbs and Senators like Senator Sessions keep it in the the public eye. Exactly what is going on in the halls of power. President Bush has pushed for the better part of 7 years for “comprehensive immigration reform” and as long as there are enough senators and congressmen who like staying in there jobs it will not happen. It is a shell game business does not really want it because they like slave labor.If 20 million were legalized then they would have to pay living wages and offer the same protection as with legal workers. The ethnocentric special interest groups don’t want it because it diminishes there poor me victimhood. But like the kings of racebaiting Jackson and Sharpton They use it as a club to beat us “xenophobic racists” with to extort money and power from us. Even politicians like McCain don’t really want it they just use the idea to ingratiate themselves with the special interests, The liberal elites in the MSM and the hispanic block. It is identity politics 101.
I am really on the fence at this point as to who I will vote for but as far as this issue I see a stalemate for years to come. And as with any issue I amy be wtrong but that is the way I see it.
JKotthoff on May 23, 2008 at 2:00 PM
.
That’s easy. Obama wants blanket amnesty, no preconditions, no background checks, etc. This site has been full of the differences.
Think_b4_speaking on May 23, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Wow. the hatred of a good man”McCain–gets stupider & stupider.
Meanwhile, Obama is talking up his immigration plan today, slamming Rush & calling all you foaming-at-the-mouth McCain haters “xenophobic”.
Obama’s apparently your guy (it’s either him or J-Mac), but he’s dissing you.
jgapinoy on May 23, 2008 at 2:01 PM
That is not an answer. I asked you WHY. Consider the illegals are destroying the country now, not in the future.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 2:01 PM
If it does not say “WE ARE STOPPING THE FLOW OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS” it is poorly worded.
TroubledMonkey on May 23, 2008 at 2:01 PM
Statement from Team McCain. “We had a poorly worded statement of position yesterday. We in now way wanted to communicate the truth to the American People that we intend to take a huge dump on the boarder fence. Further, we had no intention of communicating to the American people that amnesty, true Presidential Amnesty is on the horizon for illegal immigrants.”
Snake307 on May 23, 2008 at 2:02 PM
FYI to Hot Air – Obama just said again, right now in his speech to Cuban Americans, that he would meet with America’s enemies without preconditions.
SoulGlo on May 23, 2008 at 2:02 PM
…And he’ll probably campaign for border governors that appose sovereignty.
FloatingRock on May 23, 2008 at 2:02 PM
McCain calls for guest worker visas
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 2:03 PM
So McCain called us Racists two years ago, so in that one, it’s a tie. Again, if someone is going to be doing the wrong thing, I don’t want it to be my team. If they do it, it’s not with my name, and endorsement via my vote, attached.
Snake307 on May 23, 2008 at 2:03 PM
As opposed to what McCain wanted in his amnesty bill? For a guy who claims to be an opponent of illegal amnesty, you seem unfamiliar with the facts.
The McCain bill we managed to defeat not long ago was a blanket amnesty, no preconditions, no background checks.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 2:04 PM
I really don’t understand Republicans. Congress already had a chance to pass comprehensive immigration reform, with the full support of president Bush, but they didn’t pass it. (I refuse to call it amnesty, as our current policy is already amnesty.) As long as congress still has to face election, they’re not going to pass comprehensive immigration reform. If Obama gets elected, Congress won’t have time to pass CIR; they’ll be too busy confirming liberal judges, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq, raising taxes, and creating sweeping entitlement programs (even more goodies to entice illegal immigrants). The U.S. really can’t afford to pair a liberal Democrat Congress with a liberal Democrat president just because McCain isn’t “conservative” enough.
RightOFLeft on May 23, 2008 at 2:04 PM
For those who feel illegal immigration isn’t a top concern, I have one question…Where do you live? I want to move.
moonsbreath on May 23, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Mmm Hmm. They’ll take exception to your opinion, yet this is what they will get, by not voting to send a message.
The last time we did that was to Mr.”read my lips, no new taxes.” Fewer people voted for him, a insane texan sapped away even more votes and we got 8 years of Clinton as the prize.
Wow – didn’t that ‘I’m not going to vote for him to send a message’ really tour out well?
wise_man on May 23, 2008 at 2:04 PM
Considering that McCain agrees with Obama, not with us, doesn’t that make Obama YOUR guy?
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 2:05 PM
So. It looks like Juan will turn America over to plantation “slavers” and tens of millions of Mexicans without preconditions.
MB4 on May 23, 2008 at 2:05 PM
A mistake? Really?
It’s only a mistake if I had some sort of brain injury this morning and forgot how to read the English language. There is no way that someone with an even average reading comrehension ability can read his quote and get what the campaign told Jim Geraghty.
Who am I going to believe – an anonymous campaign mook or my own lying eyes?
Jimmie on May 23, 2008 at 2:06 PM
Translation:
“Oops! We accidentally let out the truth. Remember those obvious lies we were spouting earlier? Still totally in effect.”
someone on May 23, 2008 at 2:07 PM
Agreed. It’s not like whack-jobs can take down skyscrapers in American cities, or that libs. won’t fight. Furthermore, neither Hillary nor Obama are threats to conservatism.
JiangxiDad on May 23, 2008 at 2:08 PM
Yes, it did. If we could replay the nineties again I’d go for it in a heartbeat. Clinton was at least as conservative as McCain, and the GOP Congress was both conservative and dragging Clinton with them.
flenser on May 23, 2008 at 2:08 PM
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