Islam is changing.

No, it really isn’t. Its believed by Muslims to be the literal, unchangeable Word of Allah.

But hey – waitaminute – no Germans and Italians were interned.

Some were. This documentary covers the events. Its on the History Channel from time to time if you have cable.

RMC1618 on May 22, 2008 at 6:57 PM

I am quite disappointed with you.

I have read everything you have said, and being that you want to be DA shows one thing…. you are going or already down a path that is not good, for you, what ever Military field you are in, the Military or the people who serve around you.

You sound like a Nutroot. Which I advised you to not sound the “Troll”. Yet you kept pushing.

I hope you are not like this while you are on Duty, the Flight Line, Humping a Ruck or anything else. If you were I would have to say I would “Drop Kick” your butt to the ground… constitutionalist, nationalist or not.

You need to know when to stop…. or someone will stop you.

Now I get it. You don’t really understand your duty. I suggest you ask for clarification…
Subsunk on May 23, 2008 at 12:02 AM

Brilliant.

With toothbrushes.

For about 4 years.

That said, if a man, a soldier for the sake of argument, refuses to to serve in a war he views as immoral or illegal, or whatever reason he deems, why, should he stay, and accept going to prision for it?

If the afore mentioned Soldier decided to desert his contract for reasons of moral limitations, than what sense does it make for that same Soldier of moral standing, to accept his loss of liberty fot it?

I’m not saying he should have gone to Canada, or any other nation, had he the resources, he could have been able to hide here in the U.S.. But my guess being that he did not, why, oh why, would he agree to stay in a country that would put him in jail for multiple years, for refusing orders he believed to be immoral and/or illegal?

It’s a bad cause of ‘buyer’s remorse’.. he joined for all the perks, looks like advanced fairly well, and when his country asks him for his service in return, he leaves.

I am not sure about when he joined but surely he has seen a war movie or two in his life or played ‘GI Joe’.. what part about being a soldier did he not understand about going somewhere, shooting someone, blowing something up and standing on a piece of ground? especially if he joined after 9/11..

childhood friend of mine is now in law enforcement.. he understood that at some point, he might have to take someone’s life. He understood what was being asked of him when he joined to be a cop..

Glass joined the army.. he should of had some inkling of understanding that the government would ask him to fulfill his duty.

but it was his choice to run away and now he’s coming back and will have to pay the price for his desertion..

Turn and run away, that’s easy.. stand and face an authority figure and say ‘no’.. that is the road less traveled..

i know my duty, i know why i serve, I am an American Soldier, i am first and foremost an American, that means i put being an American before my duties as a Soldier. and in good conscience, i cannot adopt the motto of: “just be a good quiet soldier and follow orders”. I am not my Commanders slave, nor the Slave of the President of the United States, to just follow orders like a mindless drone, more is expected of me. I serve to uphold, and further Liberty, and act as Guardian for my people, that is why i personally serve.

I’m a Soldier second, I’m an American first.

RMC1618 on May 22, 2008 at 6:51 PM

Now I get it. You don’t really understand your duty. I suggest you ask for clarification from your Executive Officer or Commanding Officer, or even your Chaplain. Issues of conscience can be addressed by those folks.

Because if you think being a good American means disobeying a lawful order from your immediate Commanding Officer (who is so far removed from the President that you may not use the Pres as your reason for disobeying said order), if you think being Guardian of your people means you can disregard the orders of your CO, then you really don’t understand your oath, and consequently, cannot be acting as a “good American”. Sorry, son. You need to seek some guidance. I suggest the Chaplain if you wish to remain covert. But seek guidance, you should.

Subsunk

well, the former is an example of a form of protest by refusing to serve in a conflict against his will. The latter, is a violent act. wheather or not that violent act is rightous or not is a seperate matter.

RMC1618 on May 22, 2008 at 6:36 PM

There is no way to separate the two. They are one in the same.

…i am first and foremost an American, that means i put being an American before my duties as a Soldier. and in good conscience, i cannot adopt the motto of: “just be a good quiet soldier and follow orders”. I am not my Commanders slave, nor the Slave of the President of the United States, to just follow orders like a mindless drone, more is expected of me. I serve to uphold, and further Liberty, and act as Guardian for my people, that is why i personally serve.

I’m a Soldier second, I’m an American first.

RMC1618 on May 22, 2008 at 6:51 PM

It’s guys like you that initiate military coups. You are a slave to the Constitution. You took an oath. Get over it.

Dude, you learn in military 101 that you aren’t required to obey an illegal order. Get real.

Grrrrr…..

Can we please just shoot them when we come back…oh wait we need a declared war…

crap

Right-honorable Ladies and Gentlemen of Hot Air, it has been a long day on this thread, and it seems that no further progress is available to the members of this conversation. I thank you for your time, and I choose to retire for the night. I hope you all have a wonderfull evening.

And remember to always do your Duty. America expects no more, but demands no less.

Subsunk out.

Subsunk on May 22, 2008 at 5:38 PM

i know my duty, i know why i serve, I am an American Soldier, i am first and foremost an American, that means i put being an American before my duties as a Soldier. and in good conscience, i cannot adopt the motto of: “just be a good quiet soldier and follow orders”. I am not my Commanders slave, nor the Slave of the President of the United States, to just follow orders like a mindless drone, more is expected of me. I serve to uphold, and further Liberty, and act as Guardian for my people, that is why i personally serve.

I’m a Soldier second, I’m an American first.

No, no, no. These are not two different things. If you allow a soldier to disobey by not fighting then you must allow him to disobey by fighting.

blink on May 22, 2008 at 5:49 PM

well, the former is an example of a form of protest by refusing to serve in a conflict against his will. The latter, is a violent act. wheather or not that violent act is rightous or not is a seperate matter.

and i didn’t say he should be “allowed”, as to imply a “legal freedom”, he broke the law, and deserves to be punished.

as the Devil’s Advocate, still makes us think you might sympathize with these deserters
Subsunk on May 22, 2008 at 5:38 PM

Sir, the role of Devil’s advocate does not require me to sympathize with the position I argue.

save your breath for a better argument somewhere down the road.

Subsunk on May 22, 2008 at 5:38 PM

I agree with Subsunk, RMC1618. You’ve bitten off a rotten piece of meat playing DA with this one.

blink on May 22, 2008 at 5:51 PM

since no one else would, i decided to swollow the hard pill on this one.

save your breath for a better argument somewhere down the road.

Subsunk on May 22, 2008 at 5:38 PM

I agree with Subsunk, RMC1618. You’ve bitten off a rotten piece of meat playing DA with this one.

starting a war and refusing to fight in one are two different things.
RMC1618 on May 22, 2008 at 4:15 PM

No, no, no. These are not two different things. If you allow a soldier to disobey by not fighting then you must allow him to disobey by fighting.

And remember to always do your Duty. America expects no more, but demands no less.

Subsunk out.

The Reality Project: Canada Grows Some ‘Nads…

gitarfan on May 22, 2008 at 4:57 PM

sir, that is the toughest argument anyone has made before me all day, and for the sake of argument i’ll concede to you the he may be a cowardly, dirtbag, piece of scum, but, what if it were you? I know if i went to Canada to hide, i’d feel lower than a worm’s belly, but at least I woulden’t be in a foreign country, fighting for a cause i don’t believe in, at least I woulden’t be rotting in some hole in a military prision. Though i have to big a testicles to be a deserter, if i can afford myself the ability to say: “I may be a coward, but i’m a free man” then i must afford the same to SGT. Glass.

And should he find himself in a hole in some military prision, well, then, he shoulden’t have deserted his contract.