NYT: McCain to meet with Jindal, Crist, Romney about VP this weekend? Update: Purely social, says McCain camp; Update: Lieberman, Graham also attending
posted at 5:46 pm on May 21, 2008 by Allahpundit
What, no Huck? I thought he topped the shortlist. Or is this the new, post-joke reality, after the classless people on the Internet raised such a ruckus?
Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, on Friday is scheduled to meet with two Republican governors who have been prominently mentioned as potential running mates, according to Republicans familiar with Mr. McCain’s plan.
Charlie Crist, the governor of Florida, and Bobby Jindal, the governor of Louisiana, have both accepted invitations to meet with Mr. McCain at his home in Arizona, according to Republican familiars with the decision. One Republican said that Mitt Romney, a former rival of Mr. McCain for the presidential nomination — is also expected to visit him this weekend. Mr. Romney’s advisers declined to comment.
Tim Pawlenty’s evidently attending a wedding this weekend; it’s not clear if he was invited. We’ve had endless threads about the VP prospects of Jindal (more than one) and Romney (many, many, many more than one) and a few piecemeal takes on Crist. Follow those links for the arguments; if this is the full shortlist then Romney clearly has the advantage. Skim through this new Survey USA poll of California too as you mull, as they decided to test various McCain vs. Obama tickets — including McCain/Lieberman — against each other. Surprisingly, it’s McCain/Huckabee that does the best, with McCain/Romney a close second. Exit question: Does any of it matter? The juggernaut’s a-comin’!
Update: False alarm. Turns out Maverick just wants to spend Memorial Day weekend hanging out with friends, three of whom happen to be top VP contenders and one of whom is literally half his age and hails from an entirely different part of the country.
Update: Liebs and Grahamnesty will also be there, although they’re basically part of McCain’s entourage.










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Romney! Romney! Romney!
Jim-Rose on May 21, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Yes, I like how they quote Obama advisers on that.
amerpundit on May 21, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Based on that list…
1. Romney
2.
3.
4. Jindal
9. Crist
Limerick on May 21, 2008 at 5:50 PM
Since the Dems are going to brand him as seeking the “Third Bush Term” could he bite the bullet and pick a much smarter and more popular Florida Governor as his running mate?
I think Crist is a very, very bad idea. The Dems are not going to play nice and it could get very nasty.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 5:51 PM
“Romney! Romney! Romney!” Jim-Rose
Go ahead and add Romney to the ticket. It’ll give us true conservatives even more reason to stay home in November.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Re: Juggernaut?
That’s not decided yet either. (In more ways than one.)
rockhauler on May 21, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Another vote for Romney. I like Jindal but he is young and will have his time. I’ll puke if McCain choses Crist. I wonder if McCain is considering Mark Sanford? He would be another good choice.
Laura722 on May 21, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Leave Jindal alone to his work in LA, please.
spmat on May 21, 2008 at 5:52 PM
I think these are “it’s not going to be you, but I want your support anyway” meetings.
Big S on May 21, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Jindal would be great, but WAY too soon. What is he in, month five of his first term?
ThePrez on May 21, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Jindal is crazy if he even considers it. It would be like putting Joba Chamberlain in the Yankees starting rotation. Of the three, Romney is by far the best man for the job if the bigots don’t get in the way.
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Admittedly Im weak on a Mitt VP slot but isnt my choice to make.
Again I think Mitt hurts McCain in the south because of the anti Mormon base there.
Mitt really needs to go into some areas and change attitudes before he trys to go national again.
William Amos on May 21, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Ahmen.
easy on May 21, 2008 at 5:55 PM
We`re going to tell the bigots to shut up! :)
ThePrez on May 21, 2008 at 5:55 PM
I had no idea that aversion to the slimiest of politicians now counts as bigotry. I guess I’m just getting old.
Big S on May 21, 2008 at 5:55 PM
O.K., but, it really isn’t about conservatism, is it?
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Jindal will not accept under any circumstances, I am sure of it.
He is a good man and really wants to make a difference in LA. He will live up to the commitment he made to the voters in that state.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Out of these 3, I’d go Romney. Crist can help carry Florida without him being on the ticket, and Jindal is more needed in his current position. Romney should get this slot, he’s got nothing else to do anyway.
doodleduh on May 21, 2008 at 5:56 PM
“Again I think Mitt hurts McCain in the south because of the anti Mormon base there.”
You mean it doesn’t hurt him that he is a raving liberal? A supporter of abortion-rights? A gargantuan flip-flopper?
Those who believe that Romney was rejected because of bigotry are delusional.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 5:56 PM
“O.K., but, it really isn’t about conservatism, is it?”
Obviously not.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 5:57 PM
1. true conservatives *POW*
2. bigots *ZAP*
3. slimiest *BOOF*
Limerick on May 21, 2008 at 5:57 PM
Did I accidentally go to the Daily Kos?
Darth Executor on May 21, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Don’t worry about it. You still look good.
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 5:58 PM
I see the huck backers are back. Yes Mitt had his problems and it was more than just his beliefs. But its the same thing that Huck faces and he also needs to face the music on that score
William Amos on May 21, 2008 at 5:58 PM
doodleduh on May 21, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Actually, studies show more prejudice against Mormons than against blacks and women.
amerpundit on May 21, 2008 at 5:59 PM
All this is, is a meeting. Might not have anything to do with a veep.
And I stick with my initial call from day one…Gov. Crist will be McCain’s pick for VP. But also, it won’t matter much.
Everyone in the GOP is quite aware that Jindal is too young, and not yet “seasoned”. He needs to “cook” a little more, get himself a good record of turning Louisiana around.
And Romney is just too split with McCain on central issues, and their debate battles would only be used against McCain in the general.
All you need to do is look at that video of the moment Crist endorsed McCain, and McCain standing there. You’ll see.
JetBoy on May 21, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Not a single “true” Conservative would stay home and turn this country over to a Dangerous Socialist Empty Suit and a majority in congress.
If they do, they are not Conservative — just selfish.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Haha. That’s quality reporting.
Based on that list…
Works for me.
Spirit of 1776 on May 21, 2008 at 6:00 PM
Bigotry was a LARGE part of it. Huck really helped spread it. And Romney is NOT a liberal or an abortion supporter.
Also, name 1 thing besides abortion he flip-flopped on.
doodleduh on May 21, 2008 at 6:00 PM
I think we all pretty much agreed yesterday on Ed’s show that Bobby would be good, but his youth is a big strike against him. Although after McCain’s second term, he’d be 44 and much more well known.
Original Pechanga’s Blog
originalpechanga on May 21, 2008 at 6:01 PM
Romney is brand new to conservatism. McCain’s career record is far more right-wing than his.
Of course, opposing Romney gives some a knee-jerk reaction: “Bigot!” Just like opposing Obama.
jgapinoy on May 21, 2008 at 6:01 PM
History is full of VPs who fought tooth and nail against the nominee during the primary season. Reagan and GHW Bush really disliked each other and Bush had to convert to pro-choice to be put on the ticket.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:01 PM
“Not a single “true” Conservative would stay home and turn this country over to a Dangerous Socialist Empty Suit and a majority in congress.
If they do, they are not Conservative — just selfish.”
LOL!
I guess true conservatives should just cave-in and vote for a liberal like McCain then?
Brainless. Capitualtory.
You go, EJ! Maintain your effective government.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 6:03 PM
I hope that Romney shows sufficient integrity to tell McCain to go screw himself. I know Jindal will.
Snake307 on May 21, 2008 at 6:03 PM
“And Romney is NOT a liberal or an abortion supporter.” doodle-bop
You’re delusional.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 6:04 PM
Actually Im sort of warming to Jindal considering
(A) The VP really doesnt do much in the way of duties
(B) jindal could as VP travel around the country and work to rebuild the party.
(C) He counters the idea that the GOP is the white party.
(D) the guy is bright as hell and would welcome new ideas and new people into the party.
(E) we need an OUTSIDE the betway politican to counter the insiders that are warping the party.
William Amos on May 21, 2008 at 6:04 PM
He wasn’t my first or second choice, but to deny bigotry played a large part in his loss is simply wrong.
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 6:04 PM
Romney is a second generation Republican Governor. His father was with Goldwater and Reagan in the 1960s before Conservatism was cool.
Romney’s entire politcal career consists of his 4 years as Mass governor and the pro-life, pro-family and pro-gun groups all thanked him for fighting on their side during those four years.
It is awfully hard not to suspect bigotry or ignorance when one base their jugdement on falsehoods.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:04 PM
I’m willing to bet prejudice against dishonest/opportunistic politicians is just as prevalent, if not more so. Unfortunately, Romney is widely percieved as a dishonest man willing to say anything to advance his political career. Moderates do not generally like him very much, and he will only hurt McCain’s chances. Also, if/when the McCain/Romney ticket makes its inevitable move to the center, conservative Romney fans will only have their suspicions about Mitt confirmed, and will lose enthusiasm for him. It’s a losing proposition.
Big S on May 21, 2008 at 6:05 PM
“He wasn’t my first or second choice, but to deny bigotry played a large part in his loss is simply wrong.” acapella
To deny that it was his liberalism is wrong, pal.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 6:05 PM
I really, really hope it’s Mitt Romney. He was my second choice behind Fred. He may be new to conservatism, but he’s closer to being a conservative than McCain. Jindal, let him do a bang-up job in LA, then he might be a good VP pick for Mitt in 2016. (I can dream, can’t I?)
Charlie Crist is interesting. He might help McCain carry FL especially if the FL DEM primary votes don’t end up counting. At least Floridians might feel they have “a say” in the election.
Oink on May 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Sanford. But he may have turned it down already.
Not crazy about Crist, and McCain should carry FL already.
I guess the evangelicals won’t tolerate Rudy, but is Crist any better in their eyes?
funky chicken on May 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM
Yep. From the study I linked above:
amerpundit on May 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM
I’m sure if Mike Huckabee is not the Vice President, he will appoint himself as the GOP’s Asshole-in-Chief.
Indy Conservative on May 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM
It is a bigger deal for Bobby to stay in LA for the sake of that state, the country and for this party.
Republicans have been blamed for the Dems screw up during Katrina and we sure as hell need a smart Republican to not only clean it up but make the state better than before.
That is a very important part of the rebranding of the Republican party and Bobby is the only person who can do it for us.
Fifty people could be a good VP.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:07 PM
“It is awfully hard not to suspect bigotry or ignorance when one base their jugdement on falsehoods.” EJ
Falsehoods? Do you deny he has a long record of not only supporting abortion-rights but actually CONTRIBUTING to planned-parenthood?
Give us a break. His record as a flip-flopping liberal is concrete.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 6:07 PM
I was going to say that I would be disappointed in Mitt (my unabashed first choice) if he ran with McCain but you expressed my true feelings much more succinctly.
BigD on May 21, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Of those three, Crist would be the worst choice. So McCain will probably pick him.
aero on May 21, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Appoint? I think he earned that title at the NRA convention last week.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Thread gets derailed into a 500 comment mess about religion in 5…4…3…
Hollowpoint on May 21, 2008 at 6:08 PM
The conventional wisdom is that the Obambi can’t win, because blue-collar ‘white’ Democrats won’t vote for him.
But mass movements sometimes assume a life of their own. How many other presidential candidates have ever drawn tens of thousands to rallies?
If Sen. McCain runs a lackluster campaign with a lackluster running mate, and the Pied Piper whistles his legions of youthful moonbats and all the ‘blacks’ to the polls, we may all wake up with President Obambi in the White House, making nice to Iran, telling them it’s OK to drop a few A-bombs on Israel, and sending the thermostat police into our homes so the Chinese can buy more cars.
Gov. Romney is the only one on the reputed ‘short list’ with any national name recognition (thanks to the primaries). You need someone to counter the independent move toward the Obambi. I’m a little surprised Rudy Guiliani isn’t on the list (if he’s not), though of course he’s a natural for Attorney General. Then there’s Colin Powell, only a nominal Republican and not a conservative, but that choice would utterly confound the Democrats.
If I were advising McCain, strictly as campaign manager, that’s who I’d recommend.
MrLynn on May 21, 2008 at 6:08 PM
I love the Jindal pick, because I fear that LA is too big of a mess for even somebody of his prodigious talents to fix, and then he’s tied forever for “failing” to make New Orleans into heaven on earth.
Save Bobby from the swamp!
And, not to be mean, but I believe there may be an election for the US Senate seat in Massachusetts soon.
funky chicken on May 21, 2008 at 6:08 PM
I have seen and read several interviews with Jindal in which he makes it crystal clear that he is committed to getting LA turned around and would not even consider a run as VP at this time.
By the way, as to being too young, unseasoned, etc.. unseasoned at what, how to be a liar , phony, and manipulative beltway politician? As little as I know about him now, I’d take him over anyone running for POTUS right now, without hesitation.
tomk59 on May 21, 2008 at 6:08 PM
amen….
Limerick on May 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Think about something.
McCain has a greater chance than most of becoming unable to fulfill his duties.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM
True that…And if I recall, Reagan once said he would never consider Bush as his runningmate. But then, at the convention…
Maybe it’s because I actually like McCain, and think he’ll do a great job as POTUS (despite the vast amount of naysayers around these parts) but it’s just a strong hunch that the veep will be Crist. He wouldn’t be my first choice, but…
JetBoy on May 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Crossing my fingers it’s Jindal …he can talk circles around Obama, Hillary and McCain.
Topsecretk9 on May 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Well delusional me thinks that part of the reason of his defeat is bigotry. Add that to his flip flopping and you get a loss. Now, bigotry is defined (one definition, I had to add that because of the nit pickers) as not liking someone because of their beliefs. Which I have found a strange definition. If I found a babysitter that believes chewing gum incessantly, popping her gum, not bathing and covered with tats is great, then I would reject her and be a bigot for not accepting her ideas. I don’t think you are a bigot for rejecting ideas out of the mainstream. Plus the word bigot is now boring, overused, and used to end a debate.
Mitt would bring voters to the booth, but would he turn just as many away? And would the others have a better net effect?
That is the only thing that really matters in a VP, how many net votes can he/she bring to the table.
right2bright on May 21, 2008 at 6:10 PM
McCAIN/JINDAL ’08
RobCon on May 21, 2008 at 6:10 PM
“He was my second choice behind Fred.”
LOL!
Well, you’ve got a real good conservative record of supporting candidates then, eh? It’s been pretty obvious for MONTHS that Fred was only there to help nominate the liberal, McCain.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 6:10 PM
Oops, sorry, I meant to say:
He will say that God appointed him Asshole-in-Chief.
Indy Conservative on May 21, 2008 at 6:10 PM
I thought that once too but he could help Lousianna as well as VP as he could as governor. As governor he has to fight the legislature that itself would be bent on defeating his agenda to keep the statis quo.
That would be like feeding Jidal to the LA sharks and the rot down there is far deeper than I like. It might be best for Jidal and the GOP to give him a better place to acheive good things than leaving him in the Lousianna swamp of politics.
William Amos on May 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM
That may be the least Conservative thing I have read or heard in a long time. I know you are thinking about the appearances but we need to think about the realities.
We are about fixing things, even things that can’t be fixed. We sure as hell should not give up because it might be too hard.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM
I’m very suspicious of Powell. I wouldn’t put it past him to be Sec State again….for Barry.
Limerick on May 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM
By the way, MrLynn, it now appears that there was also a big concert going on at that rally at the same time. Funny how the MSM left that out, and too bad you fell for it so easy.
tomk59 on May 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM
So true conservatives support Global Warming junk science, and propose a huge federal agency to oversee carbon taxes? Conservatives are in favor of begging foreign leaders to increase their oil production while we staunchly insist we won’t touch our own?
Conservatives support the idea of limiting free speech?
If that’s conservative, I’m going to say I’m not with you. When Conservative idealism embraced amnesty, you lost me.
So you go ahead, redefine conservative to embrace these and how many other liberal ideals, and denounce those who stay true to the ideals of conservativism, and claim they aren’t the true conservatives. Yeah. Good idea there. That will help me join your way of thinking.
It didn’t work when you wannabe Conservative pushed Amnesty and Harriet Myers on us. We didn’t change our tune just because you called us racists and bigots.
Snake307 on May 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM
From a supporter of the tax-raising, illegal-awarding, weak-on-crime Huckabee? The same one who flopped on national smoking bans? The same one who said legislation that denied voting rights to illegals “inflames those who are racist and bigots and makes them think there’s a real problem. But there’s not”?
amerpundit on May 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM
Scary funky I was typing my responce up the same time you were posting this
William Amos on May 21, 2008 at 6:12 PM
My short list
1. Romney
2. Romney
3. Romney
4. Stay home
hanzblinx on May 21, 2008 at 6:12 PM
He believes he can do and we owe it to him to support him in that. There really are very good men who can lead hellhole states out there.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Just from what I heard about Jindal, he sounds great. The voting patterns, however, for a dark skinned man (Jindal) who has some pretty impressive conservative credentials, will probably be far different from those of a dark skinned man (Obama) who has impeccable socialist, far left liberal credentials.
marybel on May 21, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Here’s my preferred GOP ticket for this presidential election:
John McCain / Lindsey Graham
It’s the perfect match.
I’m still voting for myself.
Indy Conservative on May 21, 2008 at 6:13 PM
I can’t say much about Crist, but Jindal should clear out his term as governor first before joining any presidential ticket. It is better for him to finish his promised obligations before taking on other responsibilities.
I still am not convinced Romney is on the list. It almost seems like it’s a running gag to include his name in the list. That’s my take on it anyway.
Weebork on May 21, 2008 at 6:13 PM
“From a supporter of the tax-raising, illegal-awarding, weak-on-crime Huckabee? ”
You sheep will fall for anything the posers at Club for Growth tell you.
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 6:13 PM
I agree that we souldnt cut and run as well but Louisianna might have to sacrific to contribute to the greatergood of the whole of the USA. Obama is a real and present threat and his defeat might cause us to need Jidal more than Louisianna does.
William Amos on May 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Sanford and Pawlenty would also be fine, if they haven’t already refused the offer.
funky chicken on May 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM
“My short list
1. Romney
2. Romney
3. Romney
4. Stay home
Bigot!
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Name something he flip flopped on.
Just for your edification, a flip flop is having a postion and changing it (FLIP) then changing it back (flop).
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Do you own a dictionary?
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Damn group and its facts. Is it incorrect that he raised taxes? Is it incorrect that he gave benefits to the children of illegals? Is it wrong that he pardoned more criminals than 3 governors combined?
amerpundit on May 21, 2008 at 6:15 PM
I have heard a rumor….
Has anyone else heard it….
He is also suppose to talk with Sarah Palin.
Anyone else heard this besides me?
upinak on May 21, 2008 at 6:16 PM
There are many people who can be a VP and be good for the country. There is only one Republican who can make LA better. Why take that one Republican out of there.
And by the way, making LA better is good for the whole country.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:16 PM
To be honest I would almost wish to demand that McCain take Tancredo as VP just for the entertainment value
William Amos on May 21, 2008 at 6:16 PM
Is this part of your Christian Outreach or Conservative credentials?
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:17 PM
Issues facing Lousianna
Katrina
Corruption
Unemployment
Issues facing the US
War on Terror
Gitmo Trials
Massive Tax increases
illegal immigration
Which issues do we have a greater need to defend ?
William Amos on May 21, 2008 at 6:17 PM
Indeed!!! I’m in.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:18 PM
No. In common usage, a “flip flop” is simply a reversal in position, particularly when it coincides with an election campaign.
Hollowpoint on May 21, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Fixed for that for Telegraph.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 21, 2008 at 6:18 PM
William, what about Sarah? I am curous on your answer.
upinak on May 21, 2008 at 6:20 PM
EJ, you must live in LA. Sorry, but Jindal could be a great VP pick for McCain. There are others, but none of us will know if they refused to job.
heh
funky chicken on May 21, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Perhaps we’ll see Mitt revert to his pre-2007 form to run for any seat that might open up.
Big S on May 21, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Hmmm. Boy, does that strike a chord.:) Which is not to say people can’t have perfectly legitimate arguments against his politics. But, from some of the things I’ve seen posted here about Mormons, that could also easily be used as camo. At any rate, as mentioned above, perhaps this is just a meeting with them all to ask for support.
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Romney’s business know how is exactly what the ticket needs. Jindal needs to stay and clean up Louisiana so he can be Romney’s vp in 2012. If mccain chooses crist I won’t vote for mccain. crist is a liberal destroying the economy of Florida. Today they are talking about increasing my millage rates after crist took hundreds of thousands of democrat voters off the property tax rolls forever. Even though I hate the guy and believe his ultimate intention is to implement a state income tax and would like to get him out of the governors mansion, I could not help put him within a 72 year old heartbeat of the presidency.
peacenprosperity on May 21, 2008 at 6:20 PM
I am going to agree to disagree with you on this.
I want to deny the Dems the right to use LA as talking point against the Republicans in the future. I REALLY want poor democrats who have always voted Democrat to experience the wonder that is an intelligent and competent Republican Governor.
The dividens it could pay off in the future are huge.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:20 PM
True, I saw that (on one of the threads here, I think)—some indie rock band.
But the Obambi has been drawing 20-30K crowds even without rock bands, and that’s unheard of even for general elections, not to mention primaries.
MrLynn on May 21, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Sarah Palin just had her 5th child. I am a mother and can’t even imagine campaigning for VP with 5 kids, one of whom is a tiny infant. I also read that the family released a vague statement that the baby may have special needs? Just impossible from a sleep deprivation/family obligation angle, most likely.
funky chicken on May 21, 2008 at 6:22 PM
This jugger-not can’t even put PIAPS away.
What a fraud
billypaintbrush on May 21, 2008 at 6:22 PM
“Is it incorrect that he raised taxes? Is it incorrect that he gave benefits to the children of illegals? Is it wrong that he pardoned more criminals than 3 governors combined?”
Is it correct that he pissed-off every liberal in the state of Arkansas for 10 1/2 years? Is it correct that he left office when there was a surplus of revenue after leading Arkansas magnificently through the post 9/11 hard-times? Is it correct that even kids who live in Arkansas becuase of criminal parents deserve a chance to succeed and become citizens? Is it correct that those he pardoned and released from prison were released out of necessity? Is it correct that Dummond’s case was driven by good ole boy politicking in the Natural State? Is it correct that out of any governor I remember in this conservative state of Arkansas, he’s been THE MOST conservative?
Al-Ozarka on May 21, 2008 at 6:22 PM
What did Mitt do in 2006 that was differnt from 2007? 2005? 2004? 2003?
It would be great if you actually had a single fact rather than some really lame talking points.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 6:23 PM
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