Hillary: I fear I may have to rock on to the convention
posted at 5:00 pm on May 21, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Doubtless her saying so makes all of our lady parts ache, but haven’t we heard this before? Remember, after she took a beating in North Carolina? And then before that, memorably, when she creeped us all out in that interview with Greta Van Susteren? How is this big news? Welcome news, to be sure, but big?
The Politico article’s better, actually.
Hillary Clinton compared her effort to seat Florida and Michigan delegates to epic American struggles, including those to free the slaves and win the right to vote for blacks and women…
“In Florida, you learned the hard way what happens when your votes aren’t counted and the candidate with fewer votes is declared the winner,” she said. “The lesson of 2000 here in Florida is crystal clear: if any votes aren’t count, the will of the people isn’t realized and our democracy is diminished.”
So entrenched is the belief among Democrats that Bush stole the 2000 election that it almost doesn’t pay to link the study that showed he didn’t, but for the record, here you go. If she’s willing to stoop to compare getting a couple of state parties off the hook for breaking DNC rules to freeing the slaves, there’s no sense expecting honesty about the Florida recount. Here’s the money bit:
“If we fail to [seat the delegations], I worry that we will pay not only a moral cost, but a political cost as well,” she said. “We know the road to a Democratic White House runs right through Florida and Michigan. If we care about winning those states in November, we need to count your votes now. If Democrats send a message that we don’t fully value your votes, we know Sen. McCain and the Republicans will be more than happy to have them. The Republicans will make a simple and compelling argument: why should Florida and Michigan voters trust the Democratic Party to look out for you when they won’t even listen to you.”
Is she … encouraging them to vote Republican if the delegations aren’t seated? Don’t laugh; re-read the post from that Greta interview and remind yourself how far she’ll go to delegitimize Obama as nominee if she doesn’t get her way on this. What kind of compromise on the delegations will satisfy her, though? Is she going to the convention if anything less than the full number are seated and the full popular vote totals are added to her column? The AP surveyed members of the DNC’s credentials committee a few days ago and found no support for that; the states have to pay some kind of penalty or else other states will follow their lead four years from now. But if she agrees to anything less, it’ll cripple her last argument to the superdelegates. Exit question: How does this play out? Does the committee seat half the delegates and dare her to push this all the way to Denver? Or do they try to encourage enough supers to switch to Obama to give him a big enough margin that Florida and Michigan become irrelevant, whereupon they’ll simply bite the bullet, seat each state’s full delegation, and deal with the perverse incentives about moving up one’s primary in four years?
Update: David Axelrod says he’s willing to go “more than halfway” on a compromise.
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Hell has no fury like a woman’s scorn.
And it looks as if Hillary scorn may be twice as bad.
Exit Question: If Hillary brings down the Democrats (something Karl Rove couldn’t do), will we have to send her thank you cards on inauguration day, 2009?
Darnell Clayton on May 21, 2008 at 5:07 PM
I think so. I think even she knows Obama’s form of politics is too Obammunistic for the country, just yet. He’ll undo all the hard work they’ve been doing to move us toward socialism by causing a backlash.
Hillary knows you need to warm the water slowly so the frog doesn’t jump out- she’d rather have Democrat Lite with McCain than risk freaking out the American people under Obama and causing a backlash against socialism.
NTWR on May 21, 2008 at 5:08 PM
I’m not. The Clintons are ruthless people who believe they deserved this nomination. They see Obama has having stole it.
I hate going off-topic, but Mark Halperin is reporting that McCain will meet with Bobby Jindal, Mitt Romney, and Charlie Crist on Friday. It’s part of his search for VP, the NYT reports.
amerpundit on May 21, 2008 at 5:10 PM
It’s going to be a long, hot summer if Hillary’s eldery white female voters are told they have to the follow the primary rules like everyone else.
pedestrian on May 21, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Exit answer: Only cigar smoke can answer how and how many, but my understanding is that even with MI and FL she still falls short.
We have all run obvious reasons for this strategy, VP, 2012, SCOTUS. What are we missing?
Limerick on May 21, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Yeah, reminds me that the HBO movie “Recount” will be shown soon.
Rick on May 21, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Darnell, what do you mean? Rove was pretty successful in his ventures.
Spirit of 1776 on May 21, 2008 at 5:12 PM
I think that’s the smart move. Try to get it off the table.
Spirit of 1776 on May 21, 2008 at 5:13 PM
No joke.
bayam on May 21, 2008 at 5:13 PM
Shot across the superdelegate and DNC bows. She is holding only a pair of deuces and just pushed some more chips in the pot. She’s using that Kentucky data on sore loser switch over to maximum advantage.
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 5:13 PM
I really hope she wins….there’ll be HELL to pay for people like bill richardson….if she wins, watch the democratic rats run like hell out of this country. It’ll be fun to watch!!
payback is a b*tch.
right4life on May 21, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Hillary is a 2000 “Truther”
Red Pill on May 21, 2008 at 5:16 PM
If Obama wins the nomination, Michelle won’t let him pick Hillary as VP, so that rules out Obama/Clinton.
If Hillary wins the nomination, she needs Obama to be her VP.
I think the toughest combo is Clinton/Obama.
Clinton/other or Obama/other would be easier to beat.
Red Pill on May 21, 2008 at 5:18 PM
No she is a pragmatist. She knows what plays to the base and knows that Barry can’t dispute it without ticking off his lefties.
Limerick on May 21, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Rove was able to withstand them (victoriously), but compared to the damage Hillary will do will make Rove look like a Padawan.
Thanks for the correction. Ironically a quick Google search revealed the real quote.
But if Hillary can change her words, why can’t I? ;-)
Darnell Clayton on May 21, 2008 at 5:19 PM
Your Clinton quote didn’t say that Bush (or anyone else) stole the election, but that “your votes aren’t counted and the candidate with fewer votes is declared the winner.” Like it or not, that is what the study supported. Gore’s requested recount would have made Bush the winner, so the results of Bush v. Gore didn’t matter in the end. However, a comprehensive statewide recount would have awarded the state to Gore (by even slimmer margins than Bush won or would have won with Gore’s recount). The margin there is so slim that any statistical confidence that Gore “really won” isn’t that high, but if one defines a vote as a quantity measurable in a recount, Gore got more of them. Some votes weren’t counted (as is the case in any election of that scale), and, through human and mechanical error, Bush won. Sorry, but here Clinton is telling the truth. Of course, she might be counting on her followers to interpret it as a lie, but that’s the Clinton magic for you.
calbear on May 21, 2008 at 5:21 PM
I have no “ladyparts”. I dont know about the rest of you.
Chuck Schick on May 21, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Rock on, Hillary.
Skidd on May 21, 2008 at 5:22 PM
I was surprised to learn that both Hillary and Obama are speaking in Boca Raton, Fl today. That’s a heavily Jewish town. Obama will speak in a synagogue tonight I think.
Why are they there?
JiangxiDad on May 21, 2008 at 5:24 PM
I think she’s already won the argument that she should have been the nominee, but that Obama’s campaign – not even Obama himself, that would be giving him too much credit – successfully gamed the system and stole it from her. Does anyone believe that, if they had a Democratic Nomination do-over, the New Hillary wouldn’t clean the New Obama’s clock, and wouldn’t likely be a stronger nominee?
Considering further that, regardless of how the nomination drama and election plays out, she’s not going away, the “we wuz robbed” argument could matter a lot to her and her supporters, and to Obama detractors within the Democratic Party, over the coming years.
You might even say she’s got him right where she wants him. Sure, it would have been simpler if she won the job outright, but, even on the off chance that he wins the election, who the real power will be in DC into the future won’t necessarily have been decided.
CK MacLeod on May 21, 2008 at 5:25 PM
You are probably right, but what about the black voters. They aren’t gonna like Barry having to take second seat to The Man. It really comes down to teed off black voters or sore loser Hillaryites. Which poison does Howard Dean want to drink?
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 5:26 PM
Red Pill, I loved the article you linked to on your blog, the one from Scientific American. I cut and pasted a bit of it and sent it to a friend of mine who believes in evolution. I also asked a few questions for her to ponder over.
Skidd on May 21, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Obama’s getting a start on the general. He’s hoping my bitter, Bible-thumping fellow Floridians will support him against McCain. Good luck with that, Barry.
amerpundit on May 21, 2008 at 5:27 PM
I should have added, and though it’s purely anecdotal, my sister-in-law is a member of that synagogue. She was apoplectic today that he would be in her temple, and that Hillary was getting a raw deal. She will vote McCain over Obama. Maybe that’s happening with other liberal Jews.
Another dem. constituency that Obama will have to do without? Don’t really think he’s gonna make it.
JiangxiDad on May 21, 2008 at 5:28 PM
Go Hill!
Cut them no slack.
rplat on May 21, 2008 at 5:30 PM
I thought that maybe since both were there at the same time, that some talks/arm twisting was going on re. seating the Fl. delegation. Just a speculation.
JiangxiDad on May 21, 2008 at 5:30 PM
I would suggest that we are not missing anything. There simply are too many unknowns, too many undecided, or unannounced super delegates.
This nomination will only be decided at the convention.
What happens when/if a block of ‘pledged’ delegates renounce their obligation and vote for the ‘other’ candidate? Is it even possible for the voting process to be hijacked in that way? What machinations are going on to prevent it, or bring about something like that? Who are ya gonna sue?
You have to understand that these people are liberal leftists; there are no rules.
rockhauler on May 21, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Not sure about that, but Obama’s also campaigning in Orlando, Hollywood (FL), and Miami. CNN says Clinton is there to push the DNC to seat FL and Mich, but Obama’s going after McCain.
amerpundit on May 21, 2008 at 5:33 PM
So, even if she loses the nomination and Obama wins the general election, she still controls the DNC apparatus for 2012?
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 5:33 PM
From The Mourning Bride by William Congreve.
John the Libertarian on May 21, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Like the severed hand in the Thing, she lives!
patrick neid on May 21, 2008 at 5:36 PM
It’s possible, but I don’t see it happening in a way that will swing the race. It’s like when there’s a faithless elector; it happens now and again, but it’s never affected the top of the ticket. It could, but the fall-out would be too great, so I’m thinking that the nominated will very likely be decided, with a 99.9% confidence, long before the convention. It might not be, and defecting delegates could screw it up, but there’s a big difference here between possible and probable, and I don’t think decision defections fall into the latter category.
calbear on May 21, 2008 at 5:37 PM
If Hillary helps us keep Barry and Michelle out of the White House, I’ll be more than happy to send her a truck-load of thank you cards. I don’t want the Obamas anywhere near that place, unless they’re part of a tour group.
AZCoyote on May 21, 2008 at 5:37 PM
That would be a Denver barnburner in every sense of the word. Clintonian.
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 5:37 PM
For what it’s worth; Rush made a comment today about an ongoing struggle between the Obama mob, and the Clinton mob, to take control of the democrat party apparatus. If he mentioned details, I missed them.
rockhauler on May 21, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Hillary’s argument to seat Florida’s delegation is barely plausible, but there’s no way Michigan gets seated when Obama wasn’t even on the ballot.
BUT, Michigan still has a Congressional primary on August 5. There’s still time to add two names to the ballot and have a do-over presidential primary. Michigan Dems would have to scramble to pick delegates before the convention on August 25, but it’s doable, and they’d presumably rather do it that way than not get seated at all.
Chaos, baby!
Jobius on May 21, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Thanks. . helps me keep a perspective.
rockhauler on May 21, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Well, she has been remarkedly tenacious and as mentioned above, appears stronger in presentation now, than earlier in the campaign. I wonder what influence the Ted Kennedy situation will have on the power struggle. I assume he will still be active at the convention.
a capella on May 21, 2008 at 5:43 PM
I predict the Rays will go to the World Series. After beating the Yankees, the Red Sox and the rest, I don’t know what better team’s left so far.
As for Hillary, I can’t predict anything about her. I’m not that genius like the career pundits who think they know everything.
But I do know one thing about her, you don’t wanna mess with that muliebrity.
Indy Conservative on May 21, 2008 at 5:45 PM
The super delegates can change their mind everyday.
If Hillary stays in the race until the convention that gives the B & M Obama Show 12 or so more weeks to really screw up.
What if two weeks before the Convention the video of Michelle Obama rallng against whitey shows up on the TV?
What if Osama Bin Laden, Huga Chavez and Amadinnerjacket sneak into the US and go door to door campaigning for Obama?
The Democrat party has been very disloyal to her this year so she has no reason to be loyal to them.
EJDolbow on May 21, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Only count half the MI/FL votes? How would the Dems have felt if some court had ruled that only half of Dade county votes counted in 2000? Isn’t a person worth half a vote a little too similar to the 3/5ths of a person principle from slavery days?
Clark1 on May 21, 2008 at 5:46 PM
This will be fun to watch. Probably Teddy will make it his urgent priority to put Barry-O in charge.
petefrt on May 21, 2008 at 5:51 PM
According to every recount scenario I have seen, the only way Gore would have won Florida was by using a ridiculously narrow vote-counting standard, one that Gore himself never asked for. Can you cite the study you got your info from?
Of course, Gore would never have needed to win Florida if he had simply been able to win his own home state. The Dems would rather we forget that.
Del Dolemonte on May 21, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Ah, Hillary, aprez-vous, mon cheri!
Recreate-vouz ‘68!
dmh0667 on May 21, 2008 at 5:53 PM
He won’t get it.
*
Hillary will take the fight to the floor, and she may have the popular vote to back her. And with all the fuss about Florida, I think that is her, plus all of the quotes that the leaders pounded the Republicans regarding “stealing the election” will come back to haunt them.
Hillary will pound them with their own quotes, like having a mini-MSM on your side.
right2bright on May 21, 2008 at 5:55 PM
Obama is in Florida to go after McCain by telling Cubans that its time to normalize relations with Cuba. That may work in about 20 years when the exiles start dying off but to say that now proves this boy’s instincts are just bad.
elduende on May 21, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Looking forward to the Democratic Convention where Hillary will be named the Nominee, and moreover am looking towards the November Election so John McCain loses in a massive 49 state landslide for Hillary.
Snake307 on May 21, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Not sure what your point is – I wasn’t contemplating anything like that – though I suppose it’s not inconceivable that she could make DNC appointments one of the conditions of her support if and when a grand pre-nomination compromise is reached.
I was thinking more in terms of her assuming her role as Lionness of the Senate, Winner of the Most Democratic Primary Votes, Tribune in Chief of Working Whites and Latinos, Queen of Universal Health Care, Most Important Senator of the Majority Party. (The decline of a certain scion of the previous Democratic political dynasty might be helpful in that respect as well.) Every time President Obama slipped up, the question would be whether the real heir of the last successful Democratic President wouldn’t have done a better job. Every time the weak and inexperienced faltering cheater President Obama or the Instant Lame Duck President McCain of the Minor Party wanted to get something done, he’d need the Relentless and Remorseless Indispensable Woman to give her OK.
CK MacLeod on May 21, 2008 at 6:09 PM
If the O-Man is going to negotiate with Iran, he has to negotiate with Hillary.
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on May 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM
It’s big news because you said she’d drop out a few weeks ago and you were WRONG WRONG WRONG. Neener neener neener!
Darth Executor on May 21, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Err, except it’s really not so devastating an argument.
You can have profound local reductions in entropy, as long as the entropy of the Universe continues to go up. Or how does anything get built?
Like vonspringer said, “Your refrigerator massively reduces the entropy of anything you put in it, at the expense of massively increasing the entropy of the coal (or whatever) being fed into your local power plant.”
Each individual cell in your (or any) body is a local-entropy-reducing machine. If no entropy anywhere could be reduced, life wouldn’t exist.
misterpeasea on May 21, 2008 at 6:26 PM
Hi! Thanks for the response, sir. I’d love a back-and-forth discussion, but I don’t want to hijack this thread. I only wanted to let Red Pill know I found the linked article interesting.
Skidd on May 21, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Vince Foster is for Obama.
revolution on May 21, 2008 at 6:46 PM
Johnny Huang is for Hillary.
revolution on May 21, 2008 at 6:47 PM
AP, you sly dog, “Exit question: How does this play out? Does the committee seat half the delegates and dare her to push this all the way to Denver? Or do they try to encourage enough supers to switch to Obama to give him a big enough margin that Florida and Michigan become irrelevant, whereupon they’ll simply bite the bullet, seat each state’s full delegation, and deal with the perverse incentives about moving up one’s primary in four years?”
But, that’s 2012. Ain’t it such a pretty sight what they got goin’ now?! Heh.
Lockstein13 on May 21, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Rock On, Hillary!
Woooooooooot!
Dangit, I just want her to stop being my senator. Ole Media Whore Chucky is bad enough. I wish we could have Moynihan back. What happened to the decent Dems? Where did they go? There used to be a lot of them around here…
meep on May 21, 2008 at 7:20 PM
She’s staying in for the same reason she’s stayed in this for months, even though other candidates would have quit.
She has nothing to lose and everything to gain. It’s always been about the Clinton’s…everything else is secondary.
Asher on May 21, 2008 at 7:46 PM
She’s Terminator– can’t be killed except in blazing molten steel.
leftnomore on May 21, 2008 at 7:55 PM
I’ll take door #2. They absolutely, positively need those states (especially Michigan). I suspect they’ll be able to get enough supers and Michigan “uncommitteds” to go to Obama so that the entire Clinton slate can be seated without a threat of a second ballot.
As for the 4 years, it only becomes an issue if Obama loses. If he wins, 2012 will be meaningless for the ‘Rats.
steveegg on May 21, 2008 at 8:10 PM
Actually, it’s everything to lose. Either she gets on the ticket now or she never gets the nomination. There have been only two people who failed to get the Rat nomination come back to get it without being on somebody else’s ticket in the last century; George McGovern and John W. Davis. Every other nominee over the past century has either been a sitting President, sitting VP, a first-timer, or somebody who failed in a previous November (the last only twice).
steveegg on May 21, 2008 at 8:19 PM
I can’t wait to tell my kids of the valiant fight for the slating of the delegates from the states that had their delegates stripped but voted anyway except that in most cases only the valiant fighter was on the ballot because the others had removed themselves at the DNC’s request (except where not legally possible). Whew!
The civil rights struggle of our age, really. These are heady days, people.
DrSteve on May 21, 2008 at 8:23 PM
an astute comment…
(Clinton campaign…are you paying attention?)
Saltysam on May 21, 2008 at 8:24 PM
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on May 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Although, I would phrase it this way:
If Obama believes in an open door with Iran, why does he shut the door on Hillary?
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on May 21, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Saltysam on May 21, 2008 at 8:28 PM
I really have loved watching the DEMs show their true colors this election cycle. A persons vote is an important right of each citizen and how dare any political party steal and trash millions of votes. On top of that the “superdelegate” system is an outrage. Both of those items should be a serious crime.
Buzzy on May 21, 2008 at 8:37 PM
calbear
Even the New York Times — no friend of Bush — came to the conclusion that Bush won under any reasonable scenario.
“but if one defines a vote as a quantity measurable in a recount”
What kind of definition is that? Why not the quantity measurable under the initial conditions of the election? Remember those party hacks looking at damaged ballots and hanging chads with magnifying glasses trying to divine the intent of the voter? There is no way of guaranteeing that such a recount measurement was any more accurate than the original count.
shazbat on May 21, 2008 at 8:41 PM
All I can say is; YOU GO GIRL!!!!
4shoes on May 21, 2008 at 9:25 PM
Hillarys’ got more balls than the NBA and Republican National Committee combined if I could find a Republican with half as many these days, (besides W.),I’d vote for him.
Sadly, I may have to write in Hillary just so my (?) Republican party doesn’t get the blame for the next four years of Gorebal warming…err climate change, taxation without representation.
dhunter on May 21, 2008 at 9:41 PM
The girl can’t help it!
Akzed on May 21, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Like the severed hand in the Thing, she lives!
patrick neid
She’s Terminator– can’t be killed except in blazing molten steel.
leftnomore on May 21, 2008 at 7:55 PM
Possibly true. But never a scarier scene than the original 1951 movie when the hand on the examination table starts to move. You had to be there, as we will now, when the audience had collective heart failure realizing it was still alive!
patrick neid on May 21, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Maybe the Republicans should hire Hillary as a consultant to increase membership.
Mojave Mark on May 22, 2008 at 9:28 AM
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