Even Iranian clerics getting the creeps from Ahmadinejad

posted at 7:59 am on May 20, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

The argument over the danger presented by Iran takes a strange turn today, with Iranian clerics pointing out the Messianic tendencies of the man who would have his finger on the trigger if Tehran gets nuclear weapons. The leading mullahs of the mullahcracy have told Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to stop opining on the 12th Imam and to leave the religious interpretations to the professionals, which Ahmadinejad rejected shortly afterwards. The issue erupted when Ahmadinejad claimed the support of the lost Imam of Shi’ite theology, their Messiah who will return in end times:

In his almost three years as president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been harshly criticized in the West. But he is increasingly drawing fire from Shiite clerics here, who accuse him of using religion to distract attention from his government’s failure to deliver on promises of prosperity and political freedoms.

In a news conference last week, the president lashed out at those who were “insulting and mocking” him about a Shiite belief that he said was based on Islamic teachings.

The tensions surround Imam Mahdi, the 12th imam in a direct bloodline from the Prophet Muhammad, who the Shiite faithful believe will one day emerge from 1,000 years in hiding to save mankind and bring justice to the world. Tens of thousands of pilgrims go each year to the Jamkaran mosque near Qum, about 75 miles south of Tehran, where they believe that the imam will appear.

President Ahmadinejad, who came to office in 2005 declaring his intention to “hasten the emergence” of Imam Mahdi, said in a speech broadcast nationally this month that Imam Mahdi supported the day-to-day workings of his government and was helping him in the face of international pressure.

That was too much for senior clerics, who contend that they alone are qualified to speak on the topic.

One can understand the concerns of the clerics. Ahmadinejad appears to have set himself in the place of a Muslim John the Baptist, preparing the way for the 12th Imam and bolstering that mission by claiming that role publicly. That would threaten the authority of the Guardian Council if Ahmadinejad convinces the Iranians of his claims.

It would be easy to dismiss the notion that anyone would take him seriously, but we have seen numerous examples in the West of what can happen when charismatic leaders claim to know that the End Times have arrived. Waco, Jonestown, and the Heaven’s Gate cults all come to mind, and most of the time these cults end in disaster. Some people have a deep-seated need to feel as though they have ringside seats for the end of the world and that they have the magic key to avoiding its fate.

Now imagine that dynamic with the head of state as its focal point, a state which may soon have nuclear weapons, and the danger becomes clear. This is the danger that Barack Obama dismisses with his comparisons to the evil but rational Soviet Union and talk of finding “common interests” in meeting with Ahmadinejad. At this point, such a meeting would probably fuel Ahmadinejad’s belief in his transcendent role in the progress of the Mahdi. It would certainly boost his prestige at home and have some Iranians believing in that role, which could hasten disaster rather than put it off.

Ahmadinejad is an unstable and dangerous character, one that makes even the mullahs nervous. Why would the US act to give him even more credibility?

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Why would the US act to give him even more credibility?

Yes we can!

mred on May 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM

Ahmadinejad appears to have set himself in the place of a Muslim John the Baptist, preparing the way for the 12th Imam and bolstering that mission by claiming that role publicly. That would threaten the authority of the Guardian Council if Ahmadinejad convinces the Iranians of his claims.

And it places these clerics in the role of the scribes, priests & Pharisees. Oh this is too delicious!

JohnAGJ on May 20, 2008 at 8:10 AM

Ahmaminnyman challenging his own clerics? Is this guy pursuing complete authority in Iran?

NotCoach on May 20, 2008 at 8:11 AM

You are wrong. It’s much larger than Ahmadi, and it’s not about unstable character of one individual.

It’s an inner feud within Shia Islam. Ahmadi is a pupil of Ayatollah Mesbah and the circle of Haqqani who are bent on the Mahdi theology.

Aristotle on May 20, 2008 at 8:11 AM

But he is increasingly drawing fire from Shiite clerics here, who accuse him of using religion to distract attention from his government’s failure to deliver on promises of prosperity and political freedoms.

All this talk about the 12th Imam is not helping Michelle Obama’s kids…

These Shiite clerics do not get it. It is not about political freedoms or food stamps or state-run healthcare, it is about destroying the World and bringing about Armageddon. They think Ahmadinejad is using religion to distract the masses, as they have done for decades, but he has taken it to the next level by taking them at their word.

You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind. It is a little late for these clerics to start whining that somebody has taken their ball and run with it.

gridlock2 on May 20, 2008 at 8:12 AM

strongly-worded denial from obama in 3…2…

homesickamerican on May 20, 2008 at 8:25 AM

All this talk about the 12th Imam is not helping Michelle Obama’s kids…

But this is who her husband wishes to talk to. Earth to Barack – diplomacy doesn’t work with nutcases like him.

Bigfoot on May 20, 2008 at 8:25 AM

What would be the Iranian equivalent of Ahmadinejad burning the mullahs’ version of the Reichstag? He is coming towards the end of his term as president, and having run Iran’s economy into the ground with his policies — more socialist than Islamic — he’s going to need to create some sort of distraction or cult of personality around himself if this dispute with the clerics is the real thing and not some sort of “good cop, bad cop” exhibition to get the west’s hopes up that there will be poltical change in Iran from within.

jon1979 on May 20, 2008 at 8:29 AM

What or whom is exactly Ahmadinejad’s power base? We repeatedly see these stories of the senior clerics showing displeasure with many of his religious views.

What’s preventing them from replacing him?

SteveMG on May 20, 2008 at 8:32 AM

Drudge is reporting today that Bush plans to attack Iran before the end of his term. I’m afraid that’s exactly what Awackajob would like to see happen.

I really, really, really hope Bush does not do that. Let Israel sneak in and blow up the reactors. They are good at that.

Rod on May 20, 2008 at 8:36 AM

“All this talk about the 12th Imam is not helping Michelle Obama’s kids…
But this is who her husband wishes to talk to. Earth to Barack – diplomacy doesn’t work with nutcases like him.”

I thought Obama WAS the 12th Imam.

All silliness aside. This is nothing more than a slap on the wrist and a reminder to almondhead who really has control. If they develope nukes, it will be the Supreme Council that has the launch codes.

percysunshine on May 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM

C’mon Ed, Barry has already told us that we don’t need to worry about Iran because it’s a little country. Little countries can’t pose a real threat to the U.S., even if they’re developing nuclear weapons and run by crazy Islamofascists whose most fervent desire is kill as many Americans as possible. Little countries don’t matter, from a national security standpoint. They can’t hurt us. Barry explained all that to us yesterday. Pay attention!

AZCoyote on May 20, 2008 at 8:42 AM

Very interesting, and the first indication I’ve seen that the Mullah’s might be like the old men in the Kremlin– looking to stay alive and enjoy their creature comforts, and content to wait patiently for the 12th Imam’s arrival.

Back channel discussion time? Bush/Israel/Saudi meeting last week got them spooked? Drudge report today part of a developing plan?

JiangxiDad on May 20, 2008 at 8:43 AM

Apparently, Obama was talking about meeting with some other Iranian leader.

Not specifically Ahmadinejad.

Sure he was.

FP adviser Susan Rice:

Well, first of all, he said he’d meet with the appropriate Iranian leaders. He hasn’t named who that leader will be. It may, in fact be that by the middle of next of year, Ahmadinejad is long gone.

and

Well, first of all as I said, it would be the appropriate Iranian leadership at the appropriate time – not necessarily Ahmadinejad.

The “no difference between McCain and Obama” crowd needs to really consider what they’re arguing.

SteveMG on May 20, 2008 at 8:45 AM

“Can’t we all get along? These partisan attacks are what we need a CHANGE from! Give me your vote, & I, the Messiah of the West, will chat with Ak-mydumbjihad, the Messiah of the East. We can work things out with just words.”–BO

jgapinoy on May 20, 2008 at 8:46 AM

Can we have a naming contest for this guy? These are his names from this thread;

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (article)
Ahmaminnyman
Ahmadi
Awackajob
Almondhead

I want to nominate ‘My_mood_is_Almond_Jihad’

percysunshine on May 20, 2008 at 8:51 AM

Impressive! Just the threat of the Dali-Bama speaking to Ahmadinejad has caused the latter’s support to crumble.

Key the music, I hear birds singing and see rays of light coming down from the heavens. It looks as though this terrible storm has passed.

moxie_neanderthal on May 20, 2008 at 8:53 AM

percysunshine on May 20, 2008 at 8:51 AM

Good idea. Can you add a category for Obama:

Dali-Bama (credit to moxie)
Obamanation
Barry
Messiah

JiangxiDad on May 20, 2008 at 8:59 AM

Obamination
Obadmitten
Obamadamadingdong

percysunshine on May 20, 2008 at 9:07 AM

I guess now Obama will start to get tough on the Iranians. After all, there can only be one Messiah.

Kafir on May 20, 2008 at 9:08 AM

It would be easy to dismiss the notion that anyone would take him seriously, but we have seen numerous examples in the West of what can happen when charismatic leaders claim to know that the End Times have arrived.

These times are too serious to dismiss the leader of any nation pursuing nuclear weapons. Unless, of course, you are a Democrat with no foreign policy experience who thinks in terms of “tiny” nations and photo ops instead of real diplomacy.

I don’t know if it coincidence or not (I suspect not) but it appears that Obama’s call for unconditional talks with terrorists is the new Jeremiah Wright story. Even Obama’s friends in the MSM aren’t letting him get by with his post “I heart terrorists” spinning.

highhopes on May 20, 2008 at 9:08 AM

stolen from a serial poster at CQ’ers

“I’m a dinner jacket”

I wonder what ever happened to her?

patrick neid on May 20, 2008 at 9:15 AM

Armageddonejad

Ahmagettinajob

-

The One

The Wright Stuff

Obamessiah

Bishop on May 20, 2008 at 9:32 AM

That was too much for senior clerics, who contend that they alone are qualified to speak on the topic.

This is how someone loses their head…don’t mess with the clerics.

right2bright on May 20, 2008 at 9:39 AM

I guess now Obama will start to get tough on the Iranians. After all, there can only be one Messiah.

Kafir on May 20, 2008 at 9:08 AM

And if there is more than one, the odds are that both are false.

OldEnglish on May 20, 2008 at 9:43 AM

Meeting with the guy when his own nations clerics are weary of him and his domestic policies are failing would only legitimize him (that’s directed at Obama of course).

However, striking their nuke facilities would only unite Iran with him against us but the idea of a nuclear armed Iran is just so much worse.

Definitely a damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation if I ever saw one.

Yakko77 on May 20, 2008 at 10:15 AM

Have-a-Dhimi-job
I’m-a-dainty-job

Al-Obama

Buford Gooch on May 20, 2008 at 10:17 AM

Maybe someone should introduce Ahmateenywad to Scientology…. Wow, I just made my own head hurt.

Fishoutofwater on May 20, 2008 at 10:49 AM

Ahmadinejad is an unstable and dangerous character, one that makes even the mullahs nervous. Why would the US act to give him even more credibility?

Half on the US is unstable and dangerous enough to believe in Obama. They are also the same ones who supported Ahmadinejad’s visit to Columbia University.

Connie on May 20, 2008 at 11:01 AM

Half of

Connie on May 20, 2008 at 11:01 AM

naming contest

I vote for:
Ak-mydumbjihad
Obamarxist
Shrillary

jgapinoy on May 20, 2008 at 11:49 AM

I’m surprised to see Ahmadinnerjacket portrayed as “running” Iran. He is the spokesman puppet of Ayatollah Khamenie, that is all.

Why do people not understand that? The 12th Imam stuff is very real to the actual string pullers in Iran.

Iranian democracy is just a more transparent parody than other Muslim democracies.

BL@KBIRD on May 20, 2008 at 11:58 AM

The difference between the former (and re-emerging) Soviet Union and the current Iranian leadership:

The men running the show at the Soviet Union still cared about life (namely their own). A nuclear war with America and the West would be to costly (i.e. global devastation). What good is it to rule the world if it is a glowing ball of radiation?
Imawhackjihadi of Iran cares not about the loss of life or destruction. He openly advocates for it because, in his belief, it will hasten the return of the Mahdi.

To downplay or belittle as ‘crazy talk’ the threat posed by Iran and its current President is to invite a disaster of Biblical proportions. Which, by the way, is exactly Imawhacki’s purpose.

Hindsight is always 20-20. Great leaders do not wait to reflect, they take action.

Obama is not a great leader, he is a dangerous one. Unfortunately, most of the current leadership in the world is little better.

SwampRat on May 20, 2008 at 12:38 PM

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s secret MySpace entry:

Hi there fellow Islamic bloggers. My name is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and I am the great and fearless President of the Islamic Republic of Iran and soon to be the defacto President of Iraq too!

I was was born one of seven children to a humble blacksmith and when I was a child growing up I worked on a farm to earn extra money for my poor father and I got to know a lot of the farm animals very well. I was a real nature boy back then. I was a real animal lover. My favorites were the goats of course. I still have such fond memories of my boyhood.

Later I excelled as a student, earning my master’s degree and a Ph.D in civil engineering. I have only three wifes, but as the leader of such a great Islamic country and soon to be the dominate power in the Middle East I feel that it is time for me to take my fourth wife. If any nice Islamic ladies are reading this you should email me some time soon. You must be between the ages of 12 and 28 years old. If you are under 12 that would be alright too but you must have a note from a male relative of course.

In addition to my important duties as the Great President of the Islamic Republic of Iran I am now working on my post graduate science project, which when completed in a very few years, I will test it on Evil Israel and the Great Satin America.

Who I would like to meet … …
In addition to my fourth wife, and remember if you are under 12 years old, you must have a note from a male relative, I would like to meet other dedicated members of the Great Religion of Slaughter Peace, Islam of course. We can all get together after work and spend time reading inspiring passages from the Koran and comparing notes on our mutual love of farm animals. We can also go over a list of priority test sites for my developing science project. It will be a blast!

MB4 on May 20, 2008 at 1:06 PM

Barack Obama teleprompter says:

“Iran isn’t a real threat to … wait … is a real threat … wait … yes, is a real threat to …”

OhEssYouCowboys on May 20, 2008 at 1:24 PM

The argument over the danger presented by Iran takes a strange turn today, with Iranian clerics pointing out the Messianic tendencies of the man who would have his finger on the trigger if Tehran gets nuclear weapons.

The President of Iran is not the leader of their army! That’s how it works in the United States, but not in Iran. Ahmadinenejad has his finger on nothing. That power falls to the Supreme Leader, who has declared a fatwa against nuclear weapons. Nothing Ahmadinenejad says with regard to nuclear policy or military policy should be given any weight — has has no power to act upon his positions.

Mark Jaquith on May 20, 2008 at 1:28 PM

the Dali-Bama

Got to give you credit, moxie, that is a new one to me.

major john on May 20, 2008 at 1:35 PM

The fundamental problem is, I believe, narcissism on the part of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He has been taught about the coming of the Mahdi and he believes that HE has the power to bring about his return. In fact, he probably can’t even conceive of the event not happening during his lifetime.

crosspatch on May 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM

ArmageddonJihad is my favorite, courtesy of Patrick at the now defunct Clarity & Resolve blog.

Maquis on May 20, 2008 at 4:05 PM

I would just like to point out that the Branch Davidians were murdered by the American government over an alleged arms violation (possession of automatic weapons without a license).

In both the Jamestown and Heaven’s Gate situations, followers were somehow convinced to take their own lives.

I think the monkey boy in Iran more resembles Jim Jones or Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles or possibly even David Miscavige, Tom Cruise and John Travolta more than David Koresh.

FWIW.

Rooster on May 20, 2008 at 10:39 PM