He should have used Battlefield Earth
posted at 5:52 pm on May 18, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The US military apologized, and rather profusely, for the actions of one soldier who used a Koran for target practice in a suburb of Baghdad. How big of an apology did tribal leaders from Radhwaniya receive from Major General Jeffrey Hammond? Hammond presented them with a new copy of the book, freshly kissed by another military official, and pronouced himself humbled:
A soldier used the Quran — Islam’s holy book — for target practice, forcing the chief U.S. commander in Baghdad to issue a formal apology on Saturday. ….
“I come before you here seeking your forgiveness,” Hammond said to tribal leaders and others at the apology ceremony. “In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers.”
Another military official kissed a Quran and presented it as “a humble gift” to the tribal leaders.
The soldier claimed that he didn’t know the book was the Koran, which seems a little hard to believe. Someone wrote an expletive in the book and it had been shot several times. Iraqis found it later when the military snipers left the police shooting range in Radhwaniya, complete with a target drawn on it.
The apology was necessary, says Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch, but overdone:
If he knew what the book was, the soldier was stupid, because even if it is true that the Qur’an contains mandates for violence against unbelievers, and it is true, doing something like this will only turn into enemies some people who might otherwise not be your enemies. This is not the same thing as the Dinesh D’Souza argument that we must not speak about the elements of Islam that jihadists use to justify violence and supremacism, because doing so will turn “moderates” into “extremists” — D’Souza in that is asking us to ignore and deny the truth, which is never an effective strategy in wartime or peacetime. But that is not the same thing as avoiding unnecessary provocation that will require you to fight battles that you otherwise would not have to fight. …
The reactions of Major General Hammond and his staff were understandable, but excessive. They don’t want to alienate people they believe they have won over, or whom they hope to win over, in Baghdad. They had to disavow this soldier’s action. However, kissing the Qur’an and begging for forgiveness — and holding an apology “ceremony” in the first place — are gestures that spring from a misunderstanding of how they are likely to be perceived by the “tribal leaders and others at the apology ceremony.”
Major General Hammond is anxious to show that the U.S. is not at war with Islam. Fine. But to kiss the Qur’an and to beg for forgiveness are signs that one accepts its authority and the authority of those before whom one is begging. Coming from non-Muslims, it is likely that they will be interpreted as gestures of submission, and the submission of non-Muslims to Muslims is a significant concept in Islamic law — although I am sure Major General Hammond and his staff are unaware of this. Given that, is it wise to be giving such impressions? Are such impressions not likely to create even more tension in the future?
Shooting a Koran for target practice is simply a stupid thing to do under any circumstances. Doing it in an Iraqi police shooting range and leaving it behind for the Iraqis to find is more than just stupid, it’s a deliberate insult to the people we want to trust us. That shows a real malevolence rather than just thoughtlessness, and almost a desire to undermine the hard work done by the American military in getting the Sunni tribes to align themselves with the US against their more lunatic co-religionists.
I understand what Robert says about the impression of submission and agree with him, but General Hammond has to walk a tightrope in Radhwaniya. He needs to make an apology that shows real remorse and appreciation for the disrespect shown to the Iraqis by his soldier, and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as to how best to express it. If the Iraqis received the impression that Robert explains in his excellent post, it will only exist in reality in their minds, and burdens Hammond not at all. Hammond also has to consider the difficult position into which this puts the tribal leaders who threw their lot in with the US among their own people; they need a strong expression of humility to salvage their own standing.
In the future, let’s hope American soldiers pick better titles for target practice. I’d suggest anything by V.C. Andrews or Karl Marx. Do HA readers have any suggestions?
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Right you are.
God help us.
Hawkins1701 on May 18, 2008 at 11:27 PM
No, the question becomes why do we not DEMAND the same sensitivity to OUR beliefs, as they demand for theirs.
When will it be illegal in Saudi Arabia to insult Christianity? or Free Speech?
Problem is that we are not on an even playing field, and we constantly bow to their rules, when we are the ones with the power in the first place…
There comes a point where power unused, is the same as not having that power at all.
Romeo13 on May 18, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Limerick
His choice I suppose but I don’t know how it works with regard to selecting translators. From my perspective I agree with your suggestion.
I would never want my son to be in a situation where he had to rely on someone who adheres to a faith that instructs its members to lie to non members. If my son was in that position I would say never turn your back on that person and I would do my best to inform him of the poisonous doctrine that endangers him and his comrades in arms.
Mormon Doc on May 18, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Mormon Doc on May 18, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Fair enough statement…but let me understand your point of view. Do you think islam is a peaceful “religion”?
jerrytbg on May 18, 2008 at 11:30 PM
As I understand it all Muslims, unless they are apostates and then they really aren’t Muslims, believe in the supremacy of Islam over all people.
MB4 on May 18, 2008 at 11:30 PM
jerrytbg
I do not think Islam is inherently a peaceful religion even if there are practitioners that are peaceful. I believe that the doctrine as understood in light of abrogation (that is well established in Islamic teaching) reveals Islam to be a religion that is to be forced on to those who do not willingly submit (hence “submission”).
Mormon Doc on May 18, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Sorry MB. You know me….hot under the collar and cold between the ears.
Mormon Doc…..My take, I don’t care if they worship Valley of the Dolls. If that is their holy book then that is their holy book. The soldiers are there, for better or worse, rightly or wrongly, to help put that country back together again. That’s the mission. If that means leaving Jacqueline Susann’s book the hell alone then it means leaving Jacqueline Susann’s book the hell alone.
Limerick on May 18, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Allah hates you this I know
For the Koran tells me so
Infidels Christians and Jews we bomb
They are weak and apologize but we are strong
Yes Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you,
The Koran tells me so.
Allah hates you, you will die
Blow your plane up in the sky
Say the salat, chop off head,
Eat falafel, go to bed.
Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you!
The Koran tells me so.
Aleph on May 18, 2008 at 11:36 PM
Mormon Doc on May 18, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Seams I missed a whole page in this thread. You and I have no disagreement. Have a good night. (as he slips away)
jerrytbg on May 18, 2008 at 11:37 PM
You’ve got a son over there. Most of us don’t.
MB4 on May 18, 2008 at 11:38 PM
MB4
That is my understanding as well. Inherently there isn’t anything sinister about that belief as many Christians would say that all men are subject to God the Eternal Father or the Holy Trinity (sans Jermiah Wright presumably). We must therefore examine the practice and additional teachings of the faiths to get an accurate read.
In my view it is the further teaching of Islam and forced submission of non believers that disqualifies the ideology as a religion of peace notwithstanding the protestations of the suicide bombers.
Mormon Doc on May 18, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Those who say that a Muslim who has any genuine reverence for the Koran can’t be a friend to Westerners…you just don’t understand the Middle East. And anybody who tries to use logic…logic…to prove that point…well, you just don’t know the Middle East. Logic rarely enters in. That’s the last thing you’d use to explain anything that happens there.
RBMN on May 18, 2008 at 11:39 PM
So are you saying I was wrong to take a leak on that koran last month?
Kevin M on May 18, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Limerick
To be fair sir, I can’t appreciate what it means to have a son in theater and I recognize that this is a special sacrifice which gives you a unique insight. It would be wrong of me if I gave you the impression that I did not respect your view even if I don’t agree with it. These differences in ideas are not so significant that I can’t understand your point and I at least want to make that evident. Your son is the reason America is great and is part of the reason we can have debates such as this without fear of reprisal.
Mormon Doc on May 18, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Gonna hit the hay before I get the hammer.
Exit, stage right.
Limerick on May 18, 2008 at 11:42 PM
Concur… because most here don’t get that they work from a different worldview.
We think, and have been indoctrinated, into the idea that its the poor downtrodden put upon Middle Eastern types that are terrorists…
When… Bin Ladin was rich… those doctors in Britain last year were well off… Arrafat had money… the 9/11 guys were all Middle Class or better…. and its the RICH who finance Terror groups…
Romeo13 on May 18, 2008 at 11:46 PM
RBMN
That makes it sound like any condemnation that is levied against the enslaving rhetoric that comes out of Islam must somehow go through a movable filter that only people in the Middle East can understand. Just because their ideology is corrupt doesn’t mean they define the terms of what is evidence and what isn’t.
I tend to believe the words of those who swear to kill me and destroy my country. If they don’t do it all the better but I’ll go ahead and believe them. If they want me to believe they don’t want to enslave or kill me then they should make their intentions more clear. It may also help if they stop blowing crap up.
Mormon Doc on May 18, 2008 at 11:47 PM
I agree, however I could also see how that would certainly pi%% off a regular Iraqi “Joe Six Pack” and if nothing was done then I would remain pi$$ed.
Forget the religious differences for a sec.
People are not understanding the culture differences between the USA and a 30+ year oppressed people.
From reading peoples posts, ALL Iraqi’s are militant Muslims that wish death to America.
Somehow I doubt that.
F15Mech on May 18, 2008 at 11:47 PM
Oh, and for future target practice? Vanity Fair, and/or anything by Virginia Wolfe. Or The Hours.
Actually, most of the books on Oprah’s manhating book club list would be good choices.
good night!
funky chicken on May 18, 2008 at 11:50 PM
The Koran is one of the root causes of the terrorism the world faces, and a major motivator of the enemy our forces face.
With this in mind, it is no more stupid or misguided for a soldier to shoot holes in it, than it would be for him or her to shoot holes in a picture of Bin Laden or Saddam.
The soldier should be reprimanded for wasting bullets and that’s all.
As for the groveling, embarrassing apology – it just goes to show that military leaders still do not understand the mentality of our enemy. We are not facing liberals on the battle field. We are up against the Klingons.
An attitude of cold disdain or even belligerence would go further in convincing them that we are bas assed and mean business. Kissing a Koran, just shows them that we can be beaten.
And sure – they’ll be riots on the streets of Islamabad. Effigies will be burned and slogans will be chanted. That’s their social life.
The more they are exposed to the reality that their book and prophet aren’t held as sacred by the entire world, the more they might mellow out about the absoluteness of Islam. Desensitize them.
uptight on May 18, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Today I heard on the radio that Egypt was offended as a host, by Mr. Bush for saying that political prisoners should be freed. Imagine that, it wasn’t politically correct to say that in Egypt. This from our reporters. Never, ever, never write ‘progressive’ without single quotes when referring to the media, or to liberals.
Entelechy on May 18, 2008 at 11:58 PM
F15Mech on May 18, 2008 at 11:47 PM
PC runs wild, and this is true too.
Entelechy on May 19, 2008 at 12:01 AM
uptight
I can’t agree with you more and am glad that more people are seeing these facts and appreciate you speaking out. Somehow speaking out against the hateful teachings in the Koran has been equated with bigotry and this simply must stop. Instead of refuting the assertions made by many who identify the problems with the Islamists’ ideology there are too many in the public willing to judge the accusers as prejudiced or at insensitive.
The more people that can fairly and clearly explain the facts of Islam the more likely we are to preserve our great nation and all of the freedoms that we hold so dear.
Mormon Doc on May 19, 2008 at 12:04 AM
I have been more outspoken that I usually am. I just finished writing my book so there is more energy for dueling keyboards. I appreciate all of the great interaction with others here. It is nice to have a group like this where I can express my opinions and hear from people who disagree and have many valuable points of view. I appreciate being allowed to be on this site. I’m out of here for tonight. Thanks for the great debate.
Mormon Doc on May 19, 2008 at 12:12 AM
Oh please
I have shot countless rounds into a a picture of Bin Laden. I would not shot rounds into a Koran at an Iraqi police station.
I would suggest that you do not understand who the enemy in Iraq is, and that you don’t have an understanding of the big picture.
By that I mean the Iraqi people are not our enemy, the militant Muslims are. Your comments suggest that the Iraqi people is our enemy.
While kissing the Koran was IMO over the top, the apology was necessary. They already know we can beat them. Hell if beating them was the only objective then we could have accomplished that years ago.
It is not about beating them it is about earning their respect and trust “aka hearts and minds”.
Gee they have been exposed to that for how many years under Saddam?
Next time I am around my niece/nephew I will make sure I show “an attitude of cold disdain or even belligerence” that will learn em.
Better yet a professional attitude will go farther, so much so that the Iraqi general population approaches a US solider over an Iraqi solider because the US military has earned more respect among the Iraqi people.
F15Mech on May 19, 2008 at 12:52 AM
Yes, it is like calling someone who speaks out against the hateful teachings of the KKK a bigot.
MB4 on May 19, 2008 at 12:53 AM
Moderate Unicorns
In medieval times, people created fairy tales and magical creatures to make sense of their world. One of the most endearing is the unicorn, a horse with a single horn that symbolized purity and wholesomeness. In our modern times, people in Europe and the United States consider themselves more sophisticated and rational than people from the Middle Ages, but we still create myths, albeit more subtle ones.
Daily we hear reports of violent acts committed by Islamic terrorists on every inhabited continent. We try to wish it away with the myth of the ‘Moderate Muslim’, telling ourselves the Islamic agenda has been’ hijacked’ by a ‘tiny minority of extremists’ and that soon the huge, silent, moderate majority of Muslims will take charge and change things. However, post 9/11 very few Muslims have condemned terrorist actions. We are still waiting for moderates to stand and deliver, identifying and removing extremist thugs from their mosques and their communities. Waiting for this self-correction is our modern version of unicorn hunting.
Moderate Muslims will not be able to wrest control of the agenda for several reasons. First of all, Mohammed, the Messenger of Allah’s eternal word, was not moderate. No moderate can legitimately tell another Muslim to stop doing the extremist things Mohammed himself did. Also, the Qur’an condones violence and coercion to further the Islamic agenda. People whom we call moderates are labeled hypocrites by Allah Himself in the Qur’an. Moderates will always lose the argument because, as ex-Muslim author Ibn Warraq says, “There may be moderates in Islam but Islam itself is not moderate.”
Islamic expert Daniel Pipes and others estimate ten percent of the Islamic world to be militant. In 1933 when the Nazi party took control of Germany it had 2 million members, comprising only three percent of Germany’s sixty-six million citizens. A tiny minority of extremists can control a vast number of moderates, making them irrelevant.
Placing hope in ‘The Moderate Muslim’ is like searching for unicorns in the forest.
- A_Plague_on_Both_Houses (JihadWatch)
MB4 on May 19, 2008 at 12:57 AM
We’ve seen the horrible results showing weakness brings.
Speakup on May 19, 2008 at 12:59 AM
I could not agree more.
However suggesting that we can beat all Iraqis into submission (like some posters seam to think) just becaue they are Muslim will not work either.
F15Mech on May 19, 2008 at 1:05 AM
I have no dilemma there myself as I don’t think that we should even still be in Iraq. Then we would not have to decide if prostrating U.S. Army generals kissing the Koran is worth it.
MB4 on May 19, 2008 at 1:10 AM
This lone soldier accomplished just the opposite of what he intended.
He made their book holier than it was before.
Shy Guy on May 19, 2008 at 1:11 AM
Good initiative… poor judgment.
Mojave Mark on May 19, 2008 at 1:13 AM
Did you just do a play on words?
MB4 on May 19, 2008 at 1:14 AM
Mormon Doc does this sound familiar?
If you are not interested in reading another mans book why should I read yours?
F15Mech on May 19, 2008 at 1:19 AM
I have a mind that dotes on suspicion that there’s more to be seen than what the eye beholds in the first glance. Were I am Iranian agent intent on causing problems for the US forces in Iraq, I’d find someone who could write the “right” expletive in the Qur’an; I’d draw the target; and I’d shoot it up. Then I would take it in finest taqiyya tradition and arrange to find it or have it found at the shooting range after the military target practice. Did our military test the shot up Qur’an for latent prints and test that against soldiers who might have had an opportunity to mark it up and shoot at it? If not, their apology and ceremony was stupid beyond belief. If so, when is the responsible soldier being dishonorably discharged for crude, insensitive, counter-productive behavior unbecoming a soldier?
{^_^}
herself on May 19, 2008 at 5:29 AM
F15Mech
I rejected your recommendation to read the contents of a specific book by one man that I thought was taking the discussion off topic. I never encouraged nor even suggested you read my book because my field of writing would probably not have broad appeal here nor did I intend to get myself banned for using the HA site to do shameless self promotion.
You seem to have a problem with my statement as you have brought it up on at least two occasions? Does it bother you that I rejected that particular book? If so, perhaps you could suggest others to me. I didn’t want this to be personal but it appears that you are taking my rejection to heart. If I have been discourteous then please accept my apology.
Mormon Doc on May 19, 2008 at 5:46 AM
Copies of Living History by Hillary Rodham Clinton can be found in the discount bin, cheap. And they have that irresistable cover shot.
Of course, My Life by Bill Clinton is another excellent choice, for the same reason.
gridlock2 on May 19, 2008 at 6:49 AM
When Muslims can be as outraged at beheadings, hijackings and suicide bombings as they are at someone shooting a book, there will be some hope of peace.
morganfrost on May 19, 2008 at 7:04 AM
Hey, I liked Battlefield Earth (if for no other reason than the line in the movie where they say dogs are clearly the superior species). The book? I dunno, but if he wanted to shoot at a DVD…my suggestion would be ISHTAR.
scottm on May 19, 2008 at 7:09 AM
Do sheiks rattle your nerves?
Shy Guy on May 19, 2008 at 8:21 AM
Being a realist, I couldn’t care less what book of mumbo-jumbo was shot at per se. However, when in Rome, one should watch out for the natives, they may take a different view.
OldEnglish on May 19, 2008 at 9:12 AM
Soldier, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen are taught not to desecrate, destroy, or badmouth anything muslim. He was in violation of an order, and more importantly just made things much harder for his fellow soldiers who have to clean up the mess while his dumba** gets shipped back to the land of the big PX. He should be flogged and thrown in the brig for the next few years. You have no idea how hard it is to put your feelings on the shelf and do the right thing. It isn’t about how you feel about the Koran or Muslims, it’s about doing what you have to do do come home alive with all of your buddies, and ultimately doing the right thing so that we all can come home. Crap like what he just pulled extends these deployments because they set us back with the Iraqis we are trying to gain trust with.
gator70 on May 19, 2008 at 9:12 AM
That pretty much sums it up for me.
Somebody want to explain how what that knucklehead did was good COIN practice? I have been shot at enough this tour, thanks very much. The last thing I need is some Joe giving AQI or JAM a propaganda point. Fence sitters move because of #$%& like that. And I don’t mean in the right direction.
major john on May 19, 2008 at 9:16 AM
What are we supposed to do, feel all bad and guilty. There…. satisfied. Now let’s get back to that lesson where the Koran teaches respect and love for Christians and Jews. They may not shoot at our bibles but they do chop of our heads.
I think it may warrant an apology for political correctness but kissing the Koran, not on your life. Let the Europeans kiss that sucker, not us.
By the way a Koran is pretty small. How far away was the soldier? Uh…just wondering.
Ernest on May 19, 2008 at 9:55 AM
What is the right number of Muslims that I am supposed to know before my concerns become valid?
That’s a function of the quality and nature of your concerns, isn’t it?
Your argument thus far is one huge generalization. I’ve found that knowing even a few Muslims (and they’re from everywhere, from Istanbul to Bartlett, TN) explodes stereotypes pretty quickly.
People are not staph. You might have covered that in biology.
DrSteve on May 19, 2008 at 9:57 AM
Bullocks. This apology is repulsive and mocks our freedoms, freedoms gifted to a thankless Iraq through our blood and treasure. At no time, and under no circumstance should any statesman, soldier or citizen valuing our freedoms and equality defend this antithetical text.
Our soldiers are in Iraq despite the contents of this reprehensible tome . . . not to defend it.
heroyalwhyness on May 19, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Some are Doc, you may have covered that in history 101.
Ernest on May 19, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Ok. So, what have you got against staph, then?
OldEnglish on May 19, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Exactly. That’s the job.
“Speaking out against the hateful teachings in the Koran” is one thing. Calling all Muslims “the enemy” is another.
The latter is what’s getting people called a bigot, and that’s appropriate. Not all Muslims interpret their bible the way you do. Disagree with their logic all you want, but that doesn’t necessarily make them fake Muslims. In fact, those Muslims could change their religion, the way Christians did hundreds of years ago.
The best case for peace is for religious reform, not creating a holy war.
Esthier on May 19, 2008 at 12:11 PM
So it boils down to either kissing Islams ass for safety and swinging a deal or finally confronting the true enemy, an ideology, not a group of “radicals” like everyone pretends to believe .
Kissing ass wins. It is usually so with Islam. That is why a militant supremacist group of parasitic creatures like the slaves of Allah have been successful pirates, slavers, and butchers for a millennium and a half. Fear works wonders when you call it respect “for their beliefs”.
BL@KBIRD on May 19, 2008 at 12:22 PM
Reaction by our military was “over the top”. A simple apology to the sane locals should have been sufficient explaining that the soldier interpreted it as enemy literature because it appeared to advocate beheading non-Muslims (among other things). Let the offended ones and/or apologists try to explain this away.
Any treatment of this as a criminal act is way out of bounds and shows PC-style ignorance. We should enforce the simple and understandable principle that those who cause or facilitate terrorism are our enemies, and not handcuff our own soldiers in the name of political correctness. To those who are offended, we should politely explain that if they don’t want our troops around, they can easily get rid of them by stopping all support of terrorism.
As far as alternatives for target practice:
I’d add anything by Michael Moore or Al Gore to the mix already suggested.
landlines on May 19, 2008 at 12:48 PM
MacArthur did not “kiss up” to local customs and religion. He DEMANDED CHANGE and offered a workable civil society in return.
landlines on May 19, 2008 at 12:57 PM
You are all missing the point here. The apology and A$$ kissing was NOT ENOUGH. They want that boy’s head. There will be riots in the streets this weekend for sure. IMHO every time we give in to the radical muslin demands for this and that (footwashing at airports, etc.) we weaken our position and strengthen the position of the muslims. And just to be sure, I bet that if you asked the “moderate” muslims, which is more important, the US Constitution or Shiria law, they would say the latter!
TimothyJ on May 19, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Yep, go check Jihadwatch… a Sunni is DEMANDING more action…
This is exactly what I was talking about… appologize for somthing, and its a sign of weakness, so they demand more.
Romeo13 on May 19, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Truly a Hobbesian Choice. Not to be confused with a Hobson’s choice.
MB4 on May 19, 2008 at 7:06 PM
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