Fred returns, pronounces conservatism alive and well while, er, supporting McCain
posted at 2:51 pm on May 15, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Paging Mark Levin. Mr. Levin, you have a phone call at the front desk.
First, conservatism is alive and well in America; don’t let anyone tell you differently. And by conservatism, I don’t mean the warmed-over “raise your hand if you believe …” kind of conservatism we see blooming every election cycle. No, I’m speaking of the conservatism grounded in principles based upon enduring truths: an understanding of the importance of human nature in the affairs of individuals and nations. Respect for the lessons of history, the importance of faith and tradition…
Second, change – whether it “real change,” “bold change” or the “change we can believe in” variety others are selling – isn’t itself an innovative policy or a particularly strong leadership stance. In fact, from Burke to Buckley, there has been an acknowledgement that change in the political arena is inevitable and necessary, and we in the U.S. tend to experience it in regular, 2, 4 and 6 year intervals, so 2008 is hardly our first rodeo. The challenge for conservatives is calibrating whether the change being proposed is consistent with our principles and our philosophy, and whether that change is appropriate.
Our nation has some serious issues to work through for today … and for the next generation. Now isn’t the time for conservatives to be looking for a tailored message or a politically expedient route to victory if the end result is going to be the inevitable slide toward the liberalization and secularization of America, and the growth of government and loss of freedom that inevitably ensues. For us conservatives it must be about principles and policies that are grounded in freedom, free markets and the rule of law.
I’m curious as to how the Fredheads, in particular, reconcile this otherwise righteous statement of principles with the fact that Fred’s out on the stump these days with a man who’s convinced himself that illegal immigration has been “finally brought under control.” If the answer is that he’s doing what must be done to keep the Messiah away from the reins of power, then how is that different from following “a politically expedient route to victory”? This was Levin’s point in that audio clip that got so many comments — that McCain’s going to lead to precisely the sort of liberalization that Fred’s so worried about here. Have we changed our minds about that and now decided that Maverick is the Truth and the Way back towards Reaganism? I’m confused!
Update: Ah, my mistake. McCain’s speech this morning was about the things that’ll be accomplished by the end of his first term. So it’ll be 2013 when immigration is finally “brought under control” — with Captain Amnesty as president working together with a bluer-than-blue Congress. Anyone want to bet?
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There are none so blind as they who refuse to see.
LegendHasIt on May 15, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Former Fredhead (me): It’s a good thing Fred isn’t going to be president; it’s too bad that McCain is.
/tears > resignation > despair
urbancenturion on May 15, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Well never mind. You don’t need to answer that question, as you did in your response to fossten.
Reason will never prevail against emotion.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Spirit:
Good.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:26 PM
It’s like McCain has a grudge against the GOP since 2000 when he wasn’t handed the nomination. Something must have snapped because that seems to be when he decided that social conservatives and evangelicals are the enemy and Teddy Kennedy and Russ Feingold are the good guys. The real kicker for me was when he pondered leaving the GOP just four years ago to become Kerry’s running mate.
John McCain is not trustworthy or honorable when it comes to politics. His service to the nation as a POW is commendable but as a Republican in 2008 John McCain is a Judas who should be stopped- even if it means helping Democrats. The better solution is to keep the pressure on and force McCain to listen to the part of the party he has made his mission to disenfranchise.
highhopes on May 15, 2008 at 4:26 PM
C’mon HighHopes, McCain was going to kick ass, be fair and honest.
McCain wasn’t going to let them slide with no questions asked. He was going to have through background checks performed on them, granted the bill McCain came up with only allowed for 24 hours for the investigation into the background of the illegal to be performed after which the illegal could not be denied citizenship if the check took longer than 24 hours to process.
Now, if McCain could apply the same standard to passport processing.
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Spirit:
Oh please. Just read the rants from the McCain haters and then talk to me about emotionalism. Good God, there is Mark Levin saying that conservatives should just leave the GOP. That is emotional and childish and spiteful.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
BTW, Rush said the other day that he hopes to get Republicans to cross the isle and vote for McCain. Sorry Rush, I’m a big fan, but you’re going to fail at that particular task. The only way I’m voting Republican this year is if McCain…. Use your imagination. The world is coming to an end. At least I’ll be seeing Jesus soon.
urbancenturion on May 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Yeah, his global warming nuttiness bothers me, too. I have to wonder about anyone that buys into that drivel.
But all I know is the alternative to McCain is 1000 times worse. Let me choose between a bowl of cow $hit and a bowl of brussel sprouts and I won’t look forward to either one, but I’ll pick the brussel sprouts every time. At least the brussel sprouts have some food-like qualities, and I probably won’t be puking afterwards.
rhinoishere on May 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
highhopes:
Null and void? You would let Obama run the borders and you talk about null and void?
And besides, I do not remember any of you people saying boo about the whole border issue until you thought you could use it. The truth is more has been done to deal with the border in the last couple of years than in the whole time that Newt was in the House. The Contract with America left that whole thing completely out.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:30 PM
urban:
If Republicans were not willing to vote for McCain he would not be the nominee. It is the pretend Republicans who will sit home and cheer on the Obamas.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:32 PM
This is why I don’t think it is particular worth the time talking about. You seem unable to separate whatever you have previously read by anyone else and address the points in a logical and rational fashion. The whole topic gets mixed up in some emotional soup and every scoop of it is the same: McCain can’t be criticized because Obama is worse. And we need McCain to win in Iraq. Don’t like McCain = hater, etc. Weak gruel indeed.
Just a side note, I might add - that if Bush is successful in establishing a long-term strategic alliance with Iraq - the next President, regardless of party or intent, will be bound to fulfill troop obligations concurrent with the agreement.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM
At least McCain is willing to stick with the market when it comes to climate change, the alternative is positively European. And McCain has said that energy has to be viewed as a national security issue and we need to do more to free ourselves from oil, including nuclear power. I think that is better than Gore’s party would ever do.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Spirit:
The next president will not be bound to anything. And I am not saying that criticism is not acceptable. Of course it is. I am only saying that McCain is not the villain. He is not the problem. The problem is that conservatives could not find and field an alternative to McCain. Why attack him because he won? And that is what the real issue is.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:37 PM
And do not lecture me on emotionalism when we have this constant high drama from the conservative divas.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Terry, Terry, Terry…
I sympathize with your emotions due to relatives being in Iraq. I really do. As an Army veteran.
I cannot speak for everyone else, but I do not attack McCain personally. I have never done so. I only attack his positions. What he has had to “endure” is something that he certainly knew was coming, prepared for, and probably embraced. Besides, compared to what he endured in Hanoi, this is probably a Swedish massage.
Furthermore, as the Maverick, he has made it quite clear that he doesn’t give a rat’s patootie what conservatives think of him. I’m quite certain that he is actually not “enduring” anything because he doesn’t listen. In fact, he’s called us racists. That’s a personal attack.
You, on the other hand, attack us personally for attacking his positions. You call us names and insult us for being passionate about our views. That’s irrational. Yours is an emotional response. This isn’t a football game, nor is it a war. It’s an election, and we live in a country where, at least for now, we are still allowed to voice our opinions.
Your angry posts come across as an attempt to get us to shut up. That’s also known as intimidation and censorship through pressure. You might want to start using the preview button and editing out the angry portions of your posts. You’d be surprised how short they would be afterwards.
fossten on May 15, 2008 at 4:43 PM
That’s inaccurate. A long-term strategy agreement will have the binding power of a treaty. The next President will be bound. That’s the point of doing it.
Smoke and mirrors. That’s just all you are seeing because you don’t want to see further.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 4:43 PM
This shows that the right is not immune to spin. Insulting moderate conservatives is not going to help the conservative movement. Perhaps it is time for the “real conservatives” to start thinking third party instead of pushing the moderates out of the GOP. I don’t remember all that much bitching about moderates when they helped put Reagan, Bush and Bush Sr. in the Whitehouse. They all reached out across the aisle in one way or another. Global warming has become an umbrella term for things other than polar bear population and carbon credits. Many people think of alternative energy and reducing dependence on foreign oil as inclusive of the climate debate. Also, Bush brought up immigration before anyone else (except for Reagan when he granted millions amnesty) but yet somehow McCain owns the issue. The total lack of perspective when it comes to McCain is highly suspicious to me. Being against something just because the other side is for it and vice-versa is stupid and not conservative at all. In fact, it’s one of the liberal traits I loathe the most.
When it comes to the new media, we have to take the good with the bad and pray people have enough sense to ignore it.
I think for some respected conservatives, their credibility is on the line and they are in danger of having this mess backfire on them.
myamphibian on May 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Here is logical and rational Spirit: In an election one of two parties will win. One of them will be represented by a center right candidate. The other one will be represented by a leftie who hangs out with terrorists. Now any conservative who has to ponder which one of these parties is the logical and rational choice, is not a conservative at all. He is a fraud.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM
Terrye, if that is your actual first name then I apologize for spelling it incorrectly. I assumed the ‘e’ was an initial.
fossten on May 15, 2008 at 4:45 PM
It was conservatives- not people like you- who launched the groundswell of opposition that shut down McCain/Kennedy amnesty. If it were not for “people like me” the politicians (including GWB) would have granted amnesty to millions who don’t deserve a path to citizenship without returning home and doing it the legal way. You should thank “people like me” for stopping “people like you” from following through with the more stupid ideas that come from the left.
highhopes on May 15, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Spirit:
Well I don’t know that is not what the Democrats are saying. They are saying they will pull the troops out. end of story.
But hey, if you feel comfortable with trusting a Democratic president with a super majority in the House and Senate I guess that is up to you.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Moving the goalposts again…
There is a third option, none of the above. I would argue that a conservative who believes strongly enough in his principles, that he cannot in good conscience vote for either one, is not a fraud, but is being intellectually honest with him/herself. For you to insult and name call those who feel this way is irrational and disrespectful and immature.
fossten on May 15, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Great. Now move beyond this point. After you make that determination you must consider how to blunt the evil remaining in the lesser of two evils. For people who believe in the perpetuation of of political institutions, that means counter-balancing the office of the President with conservatives lower on the ticket. Move past the first step, and you will see why conservatives are interested in identifying McCain’s weaknesses. You calling them hateful or whatever term of endearment you prefer, doesn’t mean they are not doing you and your children a favor.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 4:49 PM
highopes:
If people like you had given a rat’s ass about immigration a decade or two ago we might not be talking about it today. But No one did. No one. not for years.
And now people like you are willing to let a man who wants to give drivers licenses to illegals the job of being president.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Ahh, a little trip down memory lane.
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Spirit:
They are not interested in identifying his weaknesses, they want to ruin him.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Haha again! I didn’t think you would revert to that again! I am surprised. So here we go: I didn’t say I would be more comfortable with a Democrat. It’s hard to get my own words out when I’m having to remove the ones you are attempting to put in my mouth.
Treaties do not depend on parties! Long-term strategic agreements do not depend on parties! What the democrats are saying is not the end of the story. You might be well-advised to consider that.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 4:52 PM
In fact maybe some conservatives need to be identifying their own weaknesses, then maybe they could win elections again. That is the problem. It is not everyone else.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:53 PM
And you want a man as POTUS who wanted to give them a whole heck of a lot more than a drivers license.
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Right. The elusive ‘they’. I’m sure ‘they’ do. That of course, was not the point of Levin last night. Levin was talking about conservatives running as conservatives, which is to balance out the evils of McCain (I say that without wanting to ruin him).
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Robert:
Who cares?
The man spent years in captivity, being tortured and here you are making snarky little gossip about his temper.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Robert:
So you think Barack Obama will be tougher on immigration than McCain? What a hoot.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Ah, I see. The myopic view. If everyone was first and only interested in ‘winning’, we would be in very poor shape as a country. Fortunately some people are concerned about principles.
I believe it Churchill who said that democracies are doomed when the people discover they can vote themselves the treasury. Want to know how to win? Promise the treasury! Congratulations to the victor, but it spoils the system.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Oh, so we are going to play the torture card. Is that his get out of criticism free card?
I am sure that temper will be just dandy when people disagree with him. True leadership quality
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Spirti:
There is nothing elusive about the They. A lot of powerful conservatives who were unable to find a suitable candidate who could win have joined forces in a loud and vocal fashion to ruin McCain. If he wins without their support, that will render them less influential in the party. This is about power a lot more than principle.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Robert:
Ah yess, that torture card. No doubt the fact that McCain was able to withstand that torture and still keep it together tell us nothing about his character. Not nearly so much as a verbal fight with a colleague.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 5:00 PM
The man stood smiling with Ted Kennedy when he thought he passed the amnsety bill that even Obama had no crticism of.
You are truly in denial.
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 5:00 PM
Then we are back to where we were yesterday? Who are they? Aside from ‘a lot’? Certainly the ‘they’ aren’t all the posters here that you seem to wish to believe want Obama to win. So can’t we set aside all the evil ‘theys’ in the world and actually talk about the issues at hand here?
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Aw, c’mon. Tell us how you really feel.
hillbillyjim on May 15, 2008 at 5:01 PM
Lets see, conservatives look at the current crop of leaders/elected officials and see people who for many of them ran their elections on conservative values, but then governed us to the poor house. They see their values stomped on by the current leadership - including McCain. We voted party line because they opposition was worse than the money grubbing overspending, big government republicans. Now when we say we aren’t going to take it anymore - We are going to vote our principles because that is who we are - you accuse us of being emotional? If anything it is logic finally taking over. No longer the fear of “They are so much worse because they are liberal” because the difference is getting less and less. I agree with McCain on several issues. His stance on the war is admirable, as is his control of spending. But when your party is in control of house, senate, and white house and you need to cross the aisle “to get things done” you are certainly not a leader. He can still earn my vote, but every time he opens his mouth to promote some thing lately it has been the opposite of whats best for the country - Global warming, pandering to
La RazaLa Rata, etc.Corsair on May 15, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Some people have a high threshold for pain, so what? He tried to sell out the American people with amnesty for illegals but because he was tortured that makes it all okay?
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 5:02 PM
You guys might need to come to terms with the realization that McCain was the back room choice, that the voters didn’t matter, that Fred was asked to enter the campaign to kneecap Romney and that our primary was a set up.
All in all, it’s been a pretty good year. And don’t think the voters don’t get this. That, along with caving on farm aid or SCHPP or global warming or a housing bailout bill that rewards bad behavior. All bad legislation that should be defeated. Most Republican voters understand how we got into this mess–trade offs, bad trade deals, cowtowing to special interests, legislative subterfuge.
We have been lied to, deceived, sold out. The party has allowed perverts, criminals and morally bankrupt politicians to succeed in their midst and failed to manage its own house. The congress has failed to understand, or like George Soros-just didn’t care, the consequences of its legislation, of our trade practices, of our war effort. Failure to lead, failure to plan, failure to communicate.
It’s about walking the walk, guys and gals. It’s about taking the high road, sticking your neck out, telling us the truth, authoring good legislation, cleaning out the scoundrels, managing your families, shunning prostitutes, not making under the table deals. Is that so tough to understand?
Collectively, the have violated every single standard I and my friends hold dear. And it’s not about President Bush. It’s their failure to champion what is right and decent. They are acting like a bunch of cowardly skunks.
eaglesdontflock on May 15, 2008 at 5:02 PM
onlineanalyst on May 15, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Robert:
Oh please, Ted Kennedy endorsed Barack Obama for the White House.
And no doubt he will be thrilled when Barack wins, because it will make it so much easier to get a more liberal immigration bill through.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 5:03 PM
you go girl
funky chicken on May 15, 2008 at 5:04 PM
urbancenturian wants McCain to lose so he can meet Jesus sooner. Um, unhinged isn’t only found in leftist circles.
funky chicken on May 15, 2008 at 5:04 PM
How many pesos do you got and what odds do you want there Gringo?
VinyFoxy on May 15, 2008 at 5:05 PM
Rpbert:
So what? The man was tortured, incarcerated for years. He refused to leave Vietnam without the other men even when he had the chance. He stood up for them when it meant a beating for him. And all you can say is so what?
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 5:06 PM
funky chicken:
It is my emotional, illogical, irrational state of mind that drives me. I just can’t help myself.
Terrye on May 15, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Ted Kennedy and McCain created a bill that even Obama liked and that is just all peachy for you and makes no never mind.
I never said Kennedy endorsed McCain, I have no idea where you got that. You just said that we wanted a man in Washington who would give illegals drivers licenses, and I simply stated that McCain wanted to give them same illegals a whole lot more than just drivers licenses. McCain created a bill that not even Obama opposed.
Its simple, bad company corrupts good character.
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 5:10 PM
McCain just said in a speech in Columbus that democrats would be in his administration. Kennedy could head up Homeland Security and Obama could be Secretary of State.
volsense on May 15, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Effect on Illegal Aliens
Reagan Amnesty
Bush Amnesty
Legalizes millions, but not all, Illegal Aliens.
Yes
Yes
Charges a fee to Illegal Aliens for legalization.
Yes
Yes
Initially grants temporary, not permanent status to Illegal Aliens.
Yes
Yes
Provides path for subsequent permanent status for legalized Illegals.
Yes
Yes
Provides path to eventual U.S. citizenship for legalized Illegals.
Yes
Yes
read all about it here
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1065553/posts
posthumously, Reagan learned his lesson
windansea on May 15, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Good one! Keep up the good work. It is borderline insanity to imagine that four years under Obama and the ‘crats could be anything but disastrous for our country.
hillbillyjim on May 15, 2008 at 5:13 PM
What do you want us to say? Well, you did sell us out and tried to grant amnesty to millions of illegals but that fact that you were tortured makes its all okay. Matter of fact, you just vote any and every damn way you please, you were tortured and that makes you criticism proof.
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 5:14 PM
I have thought a number of times to joining the Libertarians, but the pot smokers and other things kept me out. The GOP lost me a very long time ago.
If the LP can be cleaned out and made into a home for the Conservative movement, I would join in a heartbeat.
Mooseman on May 15, 2008 at 5:14 PM
However many credits he got for that, he has long since used them up with all his McCain/Kennedy, McCain/Feingold, #uck you, American’s can’t pick lettuce even for $50 an hour, et all miscreant behavior and is now so deep in deficit that he should declare bankruptcy.
MB4 on May 15, 2008 at 5:14 PM
Reagan came to a compromise. What Reagan got was screwed. He did his part, the dems never did theirs.
As for Bush, I never liked Bush. Just before 9/11 he was about to give Amnesty to millions.
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Amen.
I swear, everyt ime they bring up that crap its like the mother who starts with the “I was in labor for 30 hours to bring you into this world” crap when they try to manipulate you into feeling guilty.
That is all it is, and frankly that is all McCain supporters have because it sure as hell ain’t the issues or his track record.
RobertInAustin on May 15, 2008 at 5:20 PM
I beg to differ. I have the desire to deny the presidency to BHO or HC, and that is plenty.
hillbillyjim on May 15, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Looks like the repubicans are throwing every threat out there they can think of so we will vote for McAmnesty. Not only will we not compromise our conservative values to elect McCain but we are going to get rid of all of you who turned your backs on us. The line in the sand has been drawn. More ketchup packages for the shit sandwiches you have been serving us is not going to make it acceptable. Get a clue now and stop the threats. I am at a point where I would rather see the dems run this economy into the ground then let you all keep your jobs. To bad illegals can’t run for Congress!
trs on May 15, 2008 at 5:44 PM
He’s a great man and an extraordinarily honorable human being. I have no problem with admitting that, indeed I celebrate it and am thankful for soldiers like him.
But that doesn’t magically make his policies a good idea. Markos Moulitsas was a soldier too, after all.
vonspringer on May 15, 2008 at 6:03 PM
LDS/Mormons and Evangelicals normally vote very similarly. Both were a threat to McCain. The introduction of Fred into the mix meant that that block of voters was split three ways between Fred, Mitt, and Huckabee. Fred was McCain’s stalking horse against Romney winning some states, and against Huckabee winning some others (like SC).
While I don’t for a second think Romney was a stalking horse, what he did on February 7th and 14th clearly aligned him as much with McCain as Fred has done today.
Red Pill on May 15, 2008 at 6:09 PM
I was a Fred! head and like other Fred! supporters, I felt betrayed when he dropped out before Super Tuesday. I was angry then and I’m still angry at how he ran his so called campaign. He didn’t have fire in the belly, he had a damn iceberg in the belly cooling off his campaign before it even started.
After Fred! dropped out, I jumped on the Romney bandwagon wearing my gas mask, only to be betrayed yet again.
For a while now I was determined to sit out the vote in November and vote for Senate and the local races. After long thought, I’m going to wear my gas mask and vote for Juan McShamnesty.
Mooseman on May 15, 2008 at 6:16 PM
I’m starting to think that somehow, someway, the Ron Paul supporters are going to find a way to force a brokered convention. If that happens, we may not get stuck with Juan McShamnesty.
Red Pill on May 15, 2008 at 6:26 PM
Spirit, trs, MB4, Robert, et al…
You guys are crazy. Yeah, I’ll start it out with name-calling. From your posts, it doesn’t much matter - you’re putting forth the same kind of irrational venom I would expect to see on HuffPo. How else can you explain wishing the country ill to show opposition to McCain.
Individually, our one puny vote each doesn’t count for much. That’s why I went Libertarian last election myself. But why tear down McCain? You rail against him for not doing everything the way you wanted? The man is a politician, and that’s how you get things done sometimes. And other times, you dig in and call someone out and throw a fit if you need to. Why the hell should you have a problem with that? Grow up.
When you take “conservatism”, and make it a “my way or the highway” perspective, they call it something else - fascism. I don’t mean in any way to imply that you are fascists - I’m just saying that that’s what it sounds like when you refuse to compromise and negotiate. And there is no quicker way to make your opinion meaningless.
terrye - I believe there are plenty more out there like me who prefer your line of thinking. Thanks.
connertown on May 15, 2008 at 6:39 PM
The problem is that for conservatives, it’s been the highway the past 6-8 years or so. With the fortunate exception of two good SCOTUS justices, conservatives have accomplished nothing.
Small government? Abolished DOE, or even NEA? Restrained budget? Border control? Fixed social security?
It’s not our way or the highway. We wish we could get even a tiny bit of our way instead of constant capitulation by our allegedly Republican representatives.
vonspringer on May 15, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Sorry but I really feel betrayed lately. McCains global warming BS has put me over the top. Today the republicans voted for the largest farm bill evah during record profit years. Who the hell is looking out for the taxpayer anymore? It used to be the republicans but now they spend like democrats. Sex in bathroom stalls, dishonesty, lying, it just never ends. Now we are being told to vote for McCain because he is the less of the three evils and once in a while votes like a conservative. The republicans come out day after day blaming Bush and saying McCain is the face of the new party. Might be but I will no longer be a member or contribute one dime.
trs on May 15, 2008 at 7:00 PM
Precisely, and because of that they deserve Obama, with no Reagan waiting behind the curtain. And Obama is worse than Carter manyfold. I feel sorry for the country, and for the next generations.
You Terrye, and my friend hillbillyjim, fight the kids, because they’re out of control. I have given up and will savour their torture, if they insist on voting in Obama. In that case I wish him on them with all his might and fluff.
Entelechy on May 15, 2008 at 7:07 PM
There is the possibility that if McCain was the backroom choice as suggested by many, then what was being looked at was how far left the country had shifted and what better maneuver than to offer a centrist to bring the country as a whole back toward the center. Putting forth a conservative would have pushed the right farther to the right and the left farther to the left. I may not be happy with McCain in many ways because my conservative views are put on the back burner, but in the long term interest, what the GOP did might not have been a bad thing. The Oval Office is not about one man. And yes, I understand that there are also many who consider the choice of McCain to be pushing us more left, but I’m not sure that’s the case. With McCain in office, conservatives are still viable. With Obama, we will have absolutely nothing to say about anything and the country will continue its slide to the left.
Connie on May 15, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Is Fred still trying to organize in Delaware?
Zorro on May 15, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Finally, some realism to go with all of the high-flying rhetoric about selling your country down the river in the name of principles.
A high compliment indeed. Thank you.
hillbillyjim on May 15, 2008 at 7:24 PM
It would be interesting to impress your memory engrams on a computer, connertown. The resulting torrential flood of illogic , self parody and red faced hysteria would be most entertaining.
- Mr. Spock
MB4 on May 15, 2008 at 7:29 PM
I don’t object to you calling me a name, but I don’t see the reason for it. If you desire me to be abjectly rebuked, you will have to explain my error. Nothing I have said, do I perceive to be irrational. Nor have I intended anything with venom.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 7:36 PM
I will go so far as to add, I spent a large portion yesterday attempting to express what I conceived to be a bridge between the top of the ticket and the grassroots. I’m not clear how that falls under the category of not compromising or negotiating, and as an aside I think your use of fascism is incorrect. Fascism is, in short, about the collection of power into a single central source, is has nothing to do, in and of itself, with adherence to a belief.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 7:39 PM
Fred Thompson, the clear conservative waterboy for McCain.
BKennedy on May 15, 2008 at 7:44 PM
Well, in the case that an answer is not forthcoming, I will venture this point:
If a man were to seek the counsel of others, he could not do better then to get 1 idealist and 1 pragmatist. Hearing both, he could make a well educated path. How foolish it would be, upon assembling such a group, to let it degrade to where the pragmatist slanders the idealist, and the idealist curses the pragmatist. All the party loses.
Spirit of 1776 on May 15, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Yes.
Connie on May 15, 2008 at 8:08 PM
FredHead checking in, here.
This conservative was glad to see Fred backing up McCain on his “props” for judge picking. For those whose #1 issue is judicial nominees, that maybe provided a little comfort and may even get a few votes for Johnny Mac. I see no problem with Fred sitting on the stage to agree with his bud on the type of judges we must have. Fred has always said that outside of national security, good judges are the most important Presidential duty.
I’m a far, far cry from being a McCainiac, but as of today I still plan on applying a vice grip to my nose and voting R for President.
Fred’s reasons for appearing on the site / pages of Townhall couldn’t be clearer.
” …Now isn’t the time for conservatives to be looking for a tailored message or a politically expedient route to victory if the end result is going to be the inevitable slide toward the liberalization and secularization of America, and the growth of government and loss of freedom that inevitably ensues…”
Fred Leads, Others Pander
redneck hippie on May 15, 2008 at 8:12 PM
So Jim, why do you dismiss and slander those of us who see four years under McCain just as bad? I mean really, answer that question for us! Terrye is nothing but a troll that tells us to shut the f**k up because McCain got the nomination. Terrye sees the troops in Iraq as nothing but leverage to make the claim that Obama would be worse. Terrye is flat-out insane when it comes to his/her/its revisionism about McCain’s amnesty bill. Perhaps you can provide the cogent and rational response that he/she/it can not provide in all the screeching and namecalling.
I want one of you McCain cheerleaders to tell the rest of us precisely why Obama would be worse than a man in favor of wholesale no-questions-asked amnesty, is against drilling in ANWAR, rejects social conservative issues, joins with Russ Feingold to abridge Constitutional freedoms, says he wouldn’t support another Alito on the SCOTUS, panders to La Raza, uses Congressional influence to lobby for the savings and loan industry, and a whole slew of other issues. I don’t see that there is so much difference between Obama and McCain.
Clearly you do. Please make the case- I’m sick and tired of your side doing nothing but scream at the rest of us to shut the f**k up and support McCain because he is the nominee. I’m sick and tired of being called a McCain hater because I have LEGITIMATE differences of opinion. Most of all I’m sick and tired of being insulted by mindless McCain supporters who have yet to make the case other than the whole “he isn’t Obama” non-sequitor. I know McCain isn’t Obama. I want one of you people to explain why that matters. So far you all get an F because you don’t work and play well with others.
highhopes on May 15, 2008 at 8:20 PM
FredHeads for the win.
RushBaby on May 15, 2008 at 8:22 PM
Er, I didn’t mean for that to follow *quite* so combative a post. That was for you most of all, redneck hippie.
RushBaby on May 15, 2008 at 8:24 PM
Good comment, Fred. I assume it’s directed at McCain.
jaime on May 15, 2008 at 8:25 PM
Um, never heard of hyperbole, I see.
But of course, you don’t seem to realize how badly McCain is going to get steamrolled by the new leftist Congress with whom he’s so eager to cooperate.
And no, I’ve never pretended to be a Republican. But I am an unapologetic conservative. Remember that most of the Founding Fathers had nothing but contempt for partisans.
urbancenturion on May 15, 2008 at 8:40 PM
oops, did I just feed trolls?
if so, sorry
urbancenturion on May 15, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Look, you may not like Pres. McCain and a blue Congress, but how much are you going to like Pres. Obama and a Blue Congress? Do you really think that’s a good idea for the Republic?
bopone on May 15, 2008 at 9:04 PM
I am hardly a McCain cheerleader, but I will respond to your childish rant with three words.
Supreme Court Nominations.
Happy now?
hillbillyjim on May 15, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Oops. I guess that was five words; how mindless of me.
hillbillyjim on May 15, 2008 at 9:13 PM
I did not vote for McCain in the Va. primary, but he will get my vote in November. He will at least not be a rubber stamp for every over-reaching Democratic bill coming out of
the looney bincongress (one hopes, anyway.)He is at least committed to fighting pork-barrel spending, which is more than most of our so-called conservative Congresscritters can say.
On the amnesty issue, I take him at his word that he learned his lesson with the last effort and will focus on border enforcement firs
On SCOTUS, he may not nominate another Alito, but I have no doubt in my mind that his picks would be far and away more desirable than any Obama or Clinton nominations. This alone is reason enough to keep the Dem.s out of the WH, as the courts aren’t likely to relinquish their growing “legislative” power, as exhibited today in Ca. The amount of power that the Supremes wield is awesome, and the importance of the power to pick nominees cannot be overestimated.
On the global-warming fairy-tale, he’s just effing nuts.
hillbillyjim on May 15, 2008 at 9:32 PM
“RushBaby on May 15, 2008 at 8:22 PM”
You are so right. I think the ‘Heads, although somewhat (cough, cough, choke!) cool toward McCain,
really cannot enable a Marxist win, or anyway any more of a Marxist win than necessary.
Don’t forget the down ticket candidates.
FredHeads for the win!
redneck hippie on May 15, 2008 at 10:03 PM
You do when that 70-year-old wants to be president as bad as John McCain.
No, I wasn’t happy to see McCain win. It may be a while before I forgive South Carolina for picking who was obviously not even in the top 3 best candidates.
But he’s all we’ve got now. If at some point a third-party candidate looks like a good possibility instead of sheer political hara-kiri, I’ll be happy to vote for the right third-party candidate.
Until then, I’ll have to settle for McCain.
It’s just that: McCain: Hey, he could be worse! is not exactly an inspiring campaign slogan.
theregoestheneighborhood on May 15, 2008 at 11:35 PM
You’re kidding, right? ‘I’ll build them their g**damn fence, if that’s what they want.’ And he hires Juan Hernandez to his staff…did you ever wonder why Hernandez is working for McCain and not one of the lib candidates? He spent May 5th mugging with La Raza..and you trust him? I don’t understand you on this one..not one bit.
Look, you guys are hanging your hat on this one and even with an actual conservative President, it’s a long shot that you get someone really good on the court. Reagan had O’Connor…Bush I had Souter…GWB tried to stick us with Miers…I don’t see McCain trying that hard, especially considering how big a majority the dems are going to have. He’s going to be limited in the type of people he can pick..and no amount of screaming on our part is going to change his mind if he picks an a**hat. He’s angling to get into office without the support of a large portion of the GOP…don’t expect to have any control over him.
austinnelly on May 15, 2008 at 11:43 PM
I don’t see him getting steamrolled at all. What scares the hell out of me is he is going to be actively working with the democrats in congress to pass legislation that will have us spewing beer and cheetos all over the room. He’s been soft on the democrats for months; he’s not just courting their voters, it seems he’s courting the dems in Congress too…given the issues he’s swung far left on, I think he knows he’s going to need their votes to get that garbage passed.
austinnelly on May 15, 2008 at 11:47 PM
You know, Fred campaigning for McCain doesn’t really prove anything except that Fred would rather see McCain win than Obama or Hillary. I think I’m with him on that.
I realize there’s a dearly-held belief among some that if we let a Democrat win, conservatives will rise in disgust and put in a decent president next time. That could well be true. But there’s no point in conspiracy theories and “Fred’s a fraud” namecalling just because he doesn’t subscribe to that theory.
The best thing conservatives can do in this election is to focus on getting a decent conservative Congress get elected. That is the real battlefield of ‘08.
Wouldn’t it be great if McCain had to veer conservative throughout his administration in order to count on getting bills through Congress?
One thing’s for sure: if we don’t start getting a more conservative Congress, the price of gas will continue to go up and up. The only way to reduce the price of gas in the face of rising demand is to raise the supply, and so far Democrats in Congress are smothering every attempt to do that, from off-shore drilling to drilling in ANWR to nuclear power for producing electricity to relaxing environment restrictions on oil exploration to standardizing and streamlining fuel standards so the oil industry doesn’t have to produce 50 different types of gas to meet 50 different states’ requirements for additives.
Obama wants to respond to the rising price of oil by … raising taxes on oil to punish the oil industry. Even if he doesn’t become president, there are lots of democrats in Congress who would do something similar.
And no, I’m not in the oil industry…
theregoestheneighborhood on May 15, 2008 at 11:48 PM
Nicely said. I wish I had the class and self control to have said that myself. I’ve been completely out of sorts with the GOP since the amnesty debacle; little did I know we’d end up with the ringleader as our nominee…and rather than be embarrassed, or angry about it, we’ve got hoards of cheerleaders telling us we’re supposed to be happy and grateful for this miracle…and then all the blood in my body starts spraying out of my eyes and ears like that annoying french guy in Kiss of the Dragon and I lose about 15 minutes of time. But I digress. Well said.
austinnelly on May 15, 2008 at 11:57 PM
…and do you realize the role Fred played in helping McCain win South Carolina?
McCain lost the South Carolina primary to then-Governor George W. Bush in 2000, and McCain was so angry that he revealed his true feelings toward the “Ultra-Right” in a speech he gave in Virginia:
John McCain called Governor George W. Bush “a Pat Robertson Republican” (i.e., “an agent of intolerance Republican”).
When challenged about what he said, John McCain said
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, it is a fact that the Communist Party, USA, wants to “Defeat the Ultra-Right”
It certainly appears that John McCain wants to Defeat the Ultra-Right.
After losing SC to Bush in 2000, McCain had a game plan to ensure that wouldn’t happen again. Sadly, it appears that Fred was part of that plan. McCain had to ensure that the “Religious Right” didn’t win SC in 2008. Here are the voting results from this year’s SC Republican Primary:
If Fred had not been in the race, who would his votes have gone to? I contend that they would have been split between Huckabee and Romney. As it was, Huckabee almost twice as many votes as Romney, but even if the split of Fred’s votes was 50/50 between Huckabee and Romney (or even just 22% Huckabee / 78% Romney), Huckabee would have won the SC primary.
Giuliani was McCain’s stalking horse in New Hampshire and Florida, to ensure that Mitt Romney didn’t win there.
McCain was declared the winner in Washington State (known for it’s corruption and stolen elections) with only a 242 vote lead and only 87% of the Precincts Reporting! I can’t prove that Huckabee would have won if the other 13% of the vote had been counted, but this doesn’t pass the smell test.
Red Pill on May 16, 2008 at 10:13 AM
I repeat what I said yesterday:
LDS/Mormons and Evangelicals normally vote very similarly. Both were a threat to McCain. The introduction of Fred into the mix meant that that block of voters was split three ways between Fred, Mitt, and Huckabee. Fred was McCain’s stalking horse against Romney winning some states, and against Huckabee winning some others.
While I don’t for a second think Romney was a stalking horse, what he did on February 7th and 14th clearly aligned him as much with McCain as Fred did yesterday.
Red Pill on May 16, 2008 at 10:19 AM
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