Report: Huckabee tops McCain’s VP shortlist?

posted at 2:15 pm on May 12, 2008 by Allahpundit

Just this morning, Bob Novak quoted Christian bigwig Michael Farris as saying, “I understand he is not under consideration.” Said Huck himself just two short months ago, “We have been given every signal that is not going to be considered.” And yet:

Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas and defeated contender for the GOP presidential nomination, is currently at the top of John McCain’s short list for a running mate. At least that’s the word from a top McCain fundraiser and longtime Republican moneyman who has spoken to McCain’s inner circle. The fundraiser is less than thrilled with the idea of Huckabee as the vice presidential nominee, and many economic conservatives—turned off by the populist tone of Huckabee’s campaign and his tax record as governor—are likely to share that marked lack of enthusiasm…

Let me add that a top Republican political strategist told me about a month ago that he also believed Huckabee to be the leading veep contender.

What’s changed in two months? For starters, remember that “Anyone but Mitt” campaign by Paul Weyrich and a bunch of other evangelical leaders? McCain can’t help but be jittery at seeing the Christian base taking a keen interest in his VP pick, especially with stories about their remorse for not having backed Huck in the primary circulating. Another thought: Romney’s always been touted as the logical pick for VP because of his fundraising prowess, to help close the money gap with Obama, but revisit this post from early March about Huckabee’s media savvy. By one estimate, the free coverage he received from the likes of Scarborough, Colbert, and the rest of the talk show circuit was worth $125 million in paid ads, more than Mitt could ever raise (especially with McCain accepting public financing). Having not one but two media darlings on the GOP ticket might convince the press to go merely hip-deep into the tank for Obama instead of face-first, like they’re planning. Finally, now that Barry O’s the nominee, McCain has both a worry and an opportunity that he wouldn’t have had opposite Hillary: Turnout among black voters in the south is sure to be huge this year, which, coupled with a weak turnout among southern evangelicals, could be lethal by putting red states in play. Adding a prominent Christian to the ticket solves that problem and frees McCain up to focus on the battlegrounds instead of fighting a rearguard action to preserve his base. Adding Huckabee specifically to the ticket, with his blue-collar populist rhetoric, holds an extra advantage in giving him a shot at Hillary’s base of working-class Democrats in Pennsylvania and Ohio.

All of which is to say, while Hot Air readers might not like this idea, I can understand why Team Maverick might. Exit question: Who else will be joining me now in writing in Hillary this year?


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Jimma Carter is the living example of why we should **never** elect someone who has to wear their religion like a badge, regardless of what part of the political spectrum they happen to be on. No more jihads from any religion, thanks.

This is not a theocracy. Huckabee, the man a heartbeat away from someone who’s 72? Disaster waiting to happen. NO!

Shay on May 13, 2008 at 12:03 PM

I still can’t believe someone running on national security/foreign policy experience would put Mr. Holiday Inn Express on the ticket.

phronesis on May 13, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Yep. Let’s elect a “TRUE CHRISTIAN” ….. just like Carter. Going by the standards of the Huckabee supporters, we should all reelect Carter, who is the best president of all time: He must have been, since he’s a baptist–and that’s what counts! I can’t honestly recall another baptist president, but perhaps there was one in the 1800′s.

And we all know how great Carter turned out, don’t we! Let’s relive that experience once again!

Okay, you “We must elect One Twue Christian” types here, tell me why should I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vote for any ticket that has Huckabee on it?

I know we are not deemed worthy of being associated with “Christian”; presumably Huckabee doesn’t want our vote. That’s about 6 million votes in the US that Huck doesn’t want. Now, no Atheists need apply, since surely Huck doesn’t want anyone who isn’t of the true faith to vote for him either. That’s probably another twenty million or so. Espicopalians? No thanks–they don’t think the Bible is inerrant! Catholics? The mark of the beast itself!
Seventh-day Adventists? Jehovah’s Witnesses? Huck is proud to not be their candidate, since they are cultists! Between them all, probably another 60 million or so that Huck doesn’t want voting for him.

We’re up to 86 million now of people Huck has violent disagreements with theology with, and presumably since He will Bring in the One True Faith, he doesn’t want any votes from the followers of Satan, as all of those I listed above are according to the followers of Huck.

Now, Huck turns off the fiscal conservatives and the pro-immigration people too, so that’s probably another ten-twenty million. What’s left? Well, the “True Christians!” and the populists. That’s a winning ticket!

And in the process, the hundred million or so voters who aren’t good enough for Huck should do–what?

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 12:12 PM

I still can’t believe someone running on national security/foreign policy experience would put Mr. Holiday Inn Express on the ticket.

That’s Pastor Holiday Inn Express, phronesis. Because nothing’s more important than getting a person who says all the “right” religious things into the White House. Abortion will cease to exist as an option and nobody will want one anyway; medical professionals will take vows of poverty and obedience and will provide free health care for everybody; global warming will cease (oh, wait, that happened ten years ago); cities will run entirely on rainbow power; and Jesus won’t need to come back (unless He just wants to enjoy the utopian society we’ve made in His name.)

Never mind the, you know, actual reality of what happened when Huckabee was CEO of Arkansas…

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 12:18 PM

The folks still trashing Romney are the Huckabee supporters. Classy. Anybody butHuckabee, C’mon Johnnie Mac, jus’ cuz you like the guy, does not make him VP material in a critical moment in history. Ok? I’m having a hard enough time with you, and I am a staunch conservative, not a neocon or socon.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 12:28 PM

Never mind the, you know, actual reality of what happened when Huckabee was CEO of Arkansas…

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 12:18 PM

Perhaps if enough of us send that to McCain, he’ll actually read it and stop this nonsense. Every time this balloon floats, I get airsick.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 12:36 PM

Perhaps if enough of us send that to McCain,

If he cared what we thought, he wouldn’t be on a global warming tour right now.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 12:41 PM

Never mind the, you know, actual reality of what happened when Huckabee was CEO of Arkansas…

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 12:18 PM

It is my impression that Huck’s supporters would rather put that all behind us and base our opinions on his present, refurbished talking points. Otherwise, it gets a bit messy.

a capella on May 13, 2008 at 12:45 PM

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 12:12 PM

Yeah. The whole concept of religious pluralism, which worked pretty well for this country for the last couple of centuries, is anathema to Huckabee and his supporters. Apocalyps, st. olaf, and the other pro-Huck people here demonstrate this very well. They consider anyone who doesn’t adhere to their strain of literalist evangelical christianity evil, and they regularly slander anyone who doesn’t fit in this category.

phronesis on May 13, 2008 at 12:46 PM

I have large communication list, and we’re not giving a nickel to any Republican candidate until 1) they start cleaning house and getting rid of the guy in Louisiana, the guy in New York, the guy in Idaho, and the rest of the unnamed insults to our collective intelligence. 2) the naming of a Vice Presidential candidate other than Huckabee.

No money, no support. It’s time to get this ship in order. And get that guy in Kentucky and the other old guard out of the Republican National Committee. They’ve blown it.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 12:58 PM

What guy in Louisiana?

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:02 PM

I’d like to hear from anyone who has had face-to-face time with both Ronald Reagan and Mike Huckabee.

And I’d like to hear from someone who wasn’t being paid by Huckabee to make that comparison. Rollins sullied Reagan’s name by comparing the former president to a typical politician like Huckabee.

Slublog on May 13, 2008 at 1:03 PM

I’d like to hear from anyone who has had face-to-face time with both Ronald Reagan and Mike Huckabee.

And I’d like to hear from someone who wasn’t being paid by Huckabee to make that comparison. Rollins sullied Reagan’s name by comparing the former president to a typical politician like Huckabee.

Re-post for formatting…

Slublog on May 13, 2008 at 1:03 PM

What guy in Louisiana?

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:02 PM

Sorry, senator vitter.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:04 PM

And get that guy in Kentucky and the other old guard out of the Republican National Committee. They’ve blown it.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 12:58 PM

Are you referring to Mitch McConnell? What do you have against him?

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:05 PM

And get that guy in Kentucky and the other old guard out of the Republican National Committee. They’ve blown it.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 12:58 PM

Are you referring to Mitch McConnell? What do you have against him?

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:05 PM

Not McConnell, I like him. Mike Duncan and all of the current leadership.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:09 PM

eagles, Vitter was dead wrong for having sex (even though he didn’t admit it explicitly, let’s just assume the worst) with prostitutes.

On the other hand, he didn’t wait to get caught. He withdrew from the governor’s race in 2002, saying that he and Wendy were undergoing marriage counseling. He did the right thing, repented, and made amends with his family, to the point of withdrawing from public life at great cost to his career. When all this came out later, it was well after the fact, with no indications of new activity. I’m one Louisiana voter who is not going to punish him for it.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:11 PM

I’m one Louisiana voter who is not going to punish him for it.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:11 PM

Where do we draw the line, Laura? 500 people up there have sold us out. We are in criminally pitiful shape as a nation, squandering the most awesome gifts from God in the ugliest manner possible.

It must stop. We are approaching the point of no return as a nation, and need a full boat of people of character to float us out of this.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Apocalyps, st. olaf, and the other pro-Huck people here demonstrate this very well. They consider anyone who doesn’t adhere to their strain of literalist evangelical christianity evil, and they regularly slander anyone who doesn’t fit in this category.

Exactly. The Wahhabbi wing of the Huckabee movement does nothing to calm my fears about him as a candidate.

I began the 2008 race thinking Mike was someone to watch; he was entertaining, he had knowledge of the Clintons (when Hillary was the presumed nominee), and – yes – he was visibly, audibly Christian, but (in those early days of the campaign) not obnoxiously so. I hoped he’d join the top tier, though I didn’t expect him to get the nomination.

it’s what he said and did once he DID hit the top tier that prompted that SECOND LOOK that turned me against Huckabee. This was looooong before the Wahhabbi wing took up the battle cry for Huck, but their arrival only confirmed my earlier impressions that Huckabee was and is peddling toxic populist class-covetous sludge.

sulla on May 13, 2008 at 1:16 PM

Where do we draw the line, Laura?

a) he repented on his own, before getting caught, and made it right to the best of his ability. That’s a sign of good character.
b) he’s been a very solid conservative the entire time he’s been in office.

Yes, I want to keep him.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:26 PM

The Wahhabbi wing of the Huckabee movement does nothing to calm my fears about him as a candidate.

Good grief, sulla, do you really think comparing the Huckbots to terrorists is a fair comparison?

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:28 PM

please…. please dont…

Drunk Report on May 13, 2008 at 1:28 PM

I wasn’t thinking of terrorists. All Wahhabbists are not terrorists.

Huckabee called his Arkansas GOP detractors “Shi’a Republicans.” I was simply following his example, and finding the appropriate counterpart.

sulla on May 13, 2008 at 1:29 PM

Where do we draw the line, Laura?

a) he repented on his own, before getting caught, and made it right to the best of his ability. That’s a sign of good character.
b) he’s been a very solid conservative the entire time he’s been in office.

Yes, I want to keep him.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:26 PM

Are you certain he wasn’t approached by Larry Flynt when he announced for Governor? Larry has a lot of DC Madam’s names.

I’m not so sure he came out on his own. It’s a sign of bad character to visit prostitutes when you are married. The character flaw is still there, obscured by the repentance,.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:32 PM

Where do we draw the line, Laura? 500 people up there have sold us out. We are in criminally pitiful shape as a nation, squandering the most awesome gifts from God in the ugliest manner possible.

It must stop. We are approaching the point of no return as a nation, and need a full boat of people of character to float us out of this.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:16 PM

I agree with this post. I do believe that the present day Republican Party will not and cannot be the salvation of this nation.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM

Are you certain he wasn’t approached by Larry Flynt when he announced for Governor?

No, obviously I can’t be certain of that, it’s impossible. Based on all the information available to me, I believe him and am willing to give him another chance. I’ll support him if he runs again, and I’m encouraging my friends and family to do the same.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:42 PM

What’s disturbing about this discussion is that it proves something that the Democrats love to pretend, but which is not generally true: that Republicans are bigots.

The fact that Democrats are bigots in exactly the same way means nothing, of course.

The bigotry we’re talking about is against Evangelical Christians. It’s the one, remaining bigotry that’s acceptable to everybody. Americans hate Evangelicals, and allow anybody who wants to, to express their stereotypes: Evangelicals are stupid, arrogant hicks, think they’re better than everybody else, and want to establish a theocracy like the Taliban.

It’s nonsense, of course, just like every other bigoted stereotype is nonsense. But it’s what bigots think.

How else can we explain that Allahpundit is willing to write in Hillary Clinton, with an ACU rating of around 10, rather than vote for McCain (recent ACU rating of 70) if he selects Huckabee as Vice President? That’s not just a dislike of Huckabee, that’s an INSANE dislike. It makes no sense in the real world. It’s lunacy. But he said it. The only way we can explain it is if AP is so terribly, thoroughly bigoted against Evangelicals that he’ll literally accept the end of the American Republic (which is what Hillary Clinton would produce) rather than vote for one as VICE President.

That’s just insane. Allahpundit, grow the hell up and get over it. Evangelicals are not anywhere near as bad as your bigotry thinks they are.

philwynk on May 13, 2008 at 1:44 PM

philwynk on May 13, 2008 at 1:44 PM

There’s an interesting article by Jonah Goldberg that backs up your post.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:48 PM

How else can we explain that Allahpundit is willing to write in Hillary Clinton, with an ACU rating of around 10, rather than vote for McCain (recent ACU rating of 70) if he selects Huckabee as Vice President? That’s not just a dislike of Huckabee, that’s an INSANE dislike. It makes no sense in the real world. It’s lunacy. But he said it. The only way we can explain it is if AP is so terribly, thoroughly bigoted against Evangelicals that he’ll literally accept the end of the American Republic (which is what Hillary Clinton would produce) rather than vote for one as VICE President.

That’s just insane. Allahpundit, grow the hell up and get over it. Evangelicals are not anywhere near as bad as your bigotry thinks they are.

philwynk on May 13, 2008 at 1:44 PM

So how does voting for Hillary differ from not voting, which many, many will do if Huckabee is the VP nominee. It’s not bigotry. I can’t vote for a Huckabee ticket. It’s his hypocrisy. He is not what he says he is.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:49 PM

The bigotry we’re talking about is against Evangelical Christians.

Oh, stop. Seriously. Do you realize how many of us (Christians!) don’t like Huckabee? He never got more than 50% of the evangelical vote ANYWHERE.

In Iowa, Huckabee collected 46 percent of the voters identifying themselves as evangelical Christians and Romney collected 19 percent. McCain had 10 In New Hampshire, Huckabee had 28, Romney 27, and McCain 28. In Nevada, Huckabee 22 and Romney 39 – and Romney won there. In South Carolina, Huckabee 43, McCain 27 and Romney 11.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 1:49 PM

The bigotry we’re talking about is against Evangelical Christians.

philwynk, you’re blind if you actually believe bigotry is responsible for our reactions to Huck.

Many of us here would call ourselves Evangelical Christians, but that doesn’t me we support or even like Huck.

And the bigotry against atheists is far worse.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 1:50 PM

philwynk on May 13, 2008 at 1:44 PM

There’s an interesting article by Jonah Goldberg that backs up your post.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:48 PM

How so fossten?

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:52 PM

I can’t vote for a Huckabee ticket. It’s his hypocrisy. He is not what he says he is.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:49 PM

McCain claims to be a conservative. He’s not what he says he is, either.

That said…

I’m not voting for McCain because of McCain. The veep isn’t going to have a hand in policy issues. And I don’t believe in hoping that he croaks so the veep will become president. That’s ghoulish.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:53 PM

And the bigotry against atheists is far worse.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 1:50 PM

Not on this site it isn’t. And not in government and government schools and in courtrooms.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:54 PM

Format correction:

philwynk on May 13, 2008 at 1:44 PM

There’s an interesting article by Jonah Goldberg that backs up your post.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:48 PM

How so fossten?

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:54 PM

sulla on May 13, 2008 at 1:29 PM

The Wahhabi comparison is appropriate. Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahab (c.1703-1791), taught that all accretions to Islam after the third century of the Muslim era—i.e., after ~950—were spurious to be expunged. In brief, this is a fundamentalist “back to the book” movement in Islam. The fundamentalist Baptists and Hovindists posting here are similar but add on the 6,000 year old earth drivel making even dark age Islam seem less cultish than they.

Annar on May 13, 2008 at 1:57 PM

cCain claims to be a conservative. He’s not what he says he is, either.

That said…

I’m not voting for McCain because of McCain. The veep isn’t going to have a hand in policy issues. And I don’t believe in hoping that he croaks so the veep will become president. That’s ghoulish.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:53 PM

McCain’s voting record can pass muster. Huckabee’s governance can not. McCain vs. Clinton or Obama is a no brainer, as long as Huckabee is not on the ticket.

The nightmares of McCain dying in office if Huckabee is Veep are too awful to contemplate. No Huckabee. Has nothing to do with religion. I’d rather have Pat Robertson. There.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:58 PM

How so fossten?

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:54 PM

Read it.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:01 PM

I did. How so?

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Not on this site it isn’t. And not in government and government schools and in courtrooms.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:54 PM

I completely disagree. Most here would never vote for an atheist, but the atheists here could vote for an Evangelical, just not this one, who most Evangelicals won’t vote for anyway.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:06 PM

philwynk: no one’s biased against evangelical Christians. What we ARE biased is having evangelical Christianity (and almost exclusively the worst forms of it) shoved down our throats. That’s what Huck and his supporters want.

Just read this thread: if you aren’t for Huck, you aren’t a Christian. That’s the claim of practically every single Huckabee supporter there is. You cannot be a Christian if you don’t vote for Huck. That’s their argument. Indeed, if you don’t vote for Huck, you are not only not a Christian, but you are anti-Christian to boot.

Here’s the deal: I’m no evangelical Christian. But I call myself a Christian anyway. And I’m not alone. You are incorrect in saying, btw, that bias against evangelical Christianity is the last acceptable bigotry–see any thread on this site about Romney and the anti-Mormon stuff thrown around by the self-same people who whine about anti-Evangelical sentiments. I have very little sympathy for that argument.

Part two: there’s plenty of evangelicals who do not support Huck. Let me repeat: there are plenty of evangelicals who do not support Huckabee. Are they ALSO bigots?

Evangelical Christianity is ripe for self-righteous, judgmental, holier than thou types, and Huck attracts all of them. There’s plenty who AREN’T holier than thou, but it’s a well known phrase. See, Ray Stevens song “Mississippi Squirrel Revival” and sister Bertha Better-than-you.

The Huckabite followers follow a particular brand of Christianity: the “Church Militant.” For them, they are convinced that not only are they the only true followers, but everyone else is wrong and following Satan. For them, the way to convince others they are wrong is to tell them they are going to hell, then they whine when those same others call them bitter and are offended. Imagine that–people get offended when you say their beliefs will send them to hell. Particularly when the Huckabites say that with this expression of “And it’s a good thing, too, that they will burn!”

The Huckabites have never learned the fact that insulting others does not make others want to respect them. People can disagree with the “America is ruled by God and His Chosen Servant Huckabee” attitude without being evil. But the Huckabites don’t allow for that option: either you believe that America is evil and doomed and deserves the fire unless we elect Saint Huckabee, or you are part of the evil America that deserves to be burned.

Intertwined with the Huckabite believer system is that Evangelical Christianity should rule the government. Not just a Christian ethos, but specific Evangelical Christian doctrine. As you can imagine, those of us who are labeled “evil” by evangelical Christianity don’t really want to elect that sort of theology in our political system. To be told that if we don’t follow this brand of theology we are not Christian is very offensive. Huckabee is just another politician; he is not anointed by God (and if he has been? Isn’t that news?)

We already have one Messiah in this race: Obama. But Obama’s followers don’t claim divine providence for their candidate. The Huckabites DO. Just look at Red Pill sometime–he claims all the time that God will have Huckabee. Several other pastors I have tangled with who support Huckabee claim the same thing.

And yet, they traded extensively on the fear of “The Mormons will run America!!!” to bash Mitt.

So the main reason to loathe Huck with the fires of ten thousand burning suns is this: Huckabites are like Jim Jones followers. They are like Obama worshippers. They want a theocracy.

Evangelicals are not the same as Huckabites. But Huckabites are almost exclusively drawn from the Evangelical community, and from what I can tell, it’s the judgmental, hateful, “Everyone who doesn’t think like me are going to HELL” brigade. It’s a combination of absolute repugnancy: a twisted form of so-called Christianity that indeed doesn’t resemble anything like Christ. To impose a worldview they call Evangelical by force of government is antethical to everything the US stands for. And that is the Huckabite Supporter goal: to impose their own interpretation of what Christianity is on everyone else. Under that system, my faith would be illegal. And so would just about everyone else’s, I fear.

Allah and I join in rejecting Huckabite theology: we are totally unalike in our views on God, but Allah and I would both be in danger under a Huckabite political system. For all of Hillary’s faults, she probably wouldn’t try to kill me for my faith. Under Huckabee’s system, I am sure he wouldn’t either, but he’d not really stop anyone else. And that’s my fear.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

I completely disagree. Most here would never vote for an atheist, but the atheists here could vote for an Evangelical, just not this one, who most Evangelicals won’t vote for anyway.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:06 PM

1. You’re projecting your views on everyone else here
2. Even if true, that doesn’t prove your earlier broad brush statement
3. You are entitled to your opinion

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

I did. How so?

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 2:05 PM

The subject matter is the same.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:12 PM

1. You’re projecting your views on everyone else here
2. Even if true, that doesn’t prove your earlier broad brush statement
3. You are entitled to your opinion

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

What am I projecting? There are several polls that state quite frankly that an atheist is dead last in a poll of who voters would vote for.

My early broad brush was only meant to paint this site; however, we are a Christian nation. You say Christians are treated unfairly by the government, but this is the same government that says “one nation under God” and “In God We Trust” while praying to God before congressional meetings.

I’m not saying that these things should be taken it, but we’re far from being able to throw our own pity party because of the government’s treatment of us.

And yes, I am entitled to my opinion as are you, but facts are facts. An atheist must lie to be elected.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:17 PM

philwynk on May 13, 2008 at 1:44 PM

The obivious response to your assertion that we are bigoted against evangelicals is that most of us here supported an open evangecial christian in the last two presidential elections without hesitation. I’d wager that most of us supported W in the primary vs. McCain in 2000 too. And many of us defended GWB when the leftists attacked him for his faith.

phronesis on May 13, 2008 at 2:19 PM

Evangelicals are not the same as Huckabites. But Huckabites are almost exclusively drawn from the Evangelical community, and from what I can tell, it’s the judgmental, hateful, “Everyone who doesn’t think like me are going to HELL” brigade. It’s a combination of absolute repugnancy: a twisted form of so-called Christianity that indeed doesn’t resemble anything like Christ. To impose a worldview they call Evangelical by force of government is antethical to everything the US stands for. And that is the Huckabite Supporter goal: to impose their own interpretation of what Christianity is on everyone else. Under that system, my faith would be illegal. And so would just about everyone else’s, I fear.

Allah and I join in rejecting Huckabite theology: we are totally unalike in our views on God, but Allah and I would both be in danger under a Huckabite political system. For all of Hillary’s faults, she probably wouldn’t try to kill me for my faith. Under Huckabee’s system, I am sure he wouldn’t either, but he’d not really stop anyone else. And that’s my fear.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

Wow. What a bunch of broad brush distortions.

For your information, the evangelical Christians I know, although believing the Bible when it says that those who reject Christ end up in hell, don’t go around saying “Nyah nyah” in people’s faces, but rather out of love and compassion attempt to warn people of what the Bible says, without being judgmental and without any intent to appear holier than thou.

It’s a fact that religion has been kicked out of the classroom and the courtroom, and it’s a fact that Christians have been jailed recently in these United States for just telling others about Christ. So some forms of Christianity are already illegal. Please show me a link where an atheist has been jailed for being an atheist.

Your claim that Huckabee wouldn’t prevent anyone from killing you because you’re atheist is ludicrous and shameful. You don’t say, but imply, that Christians would kill you for your faith. This doesn’t even make logical sense. If they are going around constantly shoving their religion in your face and telling you to repent, killing you would defeat the purpose of fulfilling their commission, wouldn’t it?

Finally, your claim that all forms of religion but Huckabee’s would be illegal falls on its face since there is no actual evidence that this would come about. This is nothing but a wild, paranoid, wacko claim designed to marginalize certain groups of people.

And by the way, I’m not a Huckabee supporter. I would not vote for the man, but not because he’s a Christian, or even a bad one.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:21 PM

You say Christians are treated unfairly by the government, but this is the same government that says “one nation under God” and “In God We Trust” while praying to God before congressional meetings.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:17 PM

So what? Lip service and tradition mean nothing when it comes to throwing Christians in jail for street preaching, or outlawing school prayer, or cramming evolution down the throats of children.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:23 PM

For your information, the evangelical Christians I know, although believing the Bible when it says that those who reject Christ end up in hell, don’t go around saying “Nyah nyah” in people’s faces

Vanceone, wasn’t talking about all Evangelicals; he was talking about Huck Evangelicals.

Please show me a link where an atheist has been jailed for being an atheist.

Care to show us a link where a Christian has been jailed just for being a Christian?

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:24 PM

So what? Lip service and tradition mean nothing when it comes to throwing Christians in jail for street preaching, or outlawing school prayer, or cramming evolution down the throats of children.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:23 PM

Sheehan was thrown in jail for protesting on the street without a permit. If that’s what happened to the street preachers, then so be it. They’re not above the law either.

Also, school prayer can never be outlawed. All they have done is outlaw prayer led by teachers or spoken out loud in the school. Prayer doesn’t have to be spoken out loud. No one can ever tell you that you can’t pray any more than someone can tell you to stop thinking.

And last, evolution isn’t proof of bigotry against Christians. While flawed, it is an accepted scientific theory. School’s can’t teach something that is rejected by the scientific community, so don’t aim your disgust at them or the government, aim it at the scientists who can’t find any other theory credible.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:29 PM

Care to show us a link where a Christian has been jailed just for being a Christian?

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:24 PM

Linkage

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:32 PM

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 1:48 PM

Wow. Thanks for the link.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 2:34 PM

School’s can’t teach something that is rejected by the scientific community, so don’t aim your disgust at them or the government, aim it at the scientists who can’t find any other theory credible.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:29 PM

But government schools can teach Islam, eh?

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:34 PM

fossten: I am no Atheist; that’s why I said AllahPundit and I differ widely on the basis of religion. Yet both of us are targets of the Huckabite faith: that Huckabee is our temporal savior for this day and age.

And I can tell you all about religious tolerance and the lack thereof in these United States.

As for my so-called “ludicrous” claim of so-called Christians killing me; in this very political season, a Huckabee supporter on HotAir said flat out that if any of my faith came back to his state, he had polished his gun for them. He said it to me and others. And several of my faith’s churches have been targeted by arson attacks in the last decade–by whom, I don’t know. And no, it’s not Islam that I believe in.

Real Christians wouldn’t do that, of course not. But real Christians, as has been discussed in this very thread, leave the judging to God. Huckabites don’t. They have arrogated unto themselves the power to judge people’s eternal salvation, and if they are in their view slated for hell, the Huckabites don’t particularly care about them on Earth.

Evangelicals, to be clear, and taken as a whole, are nice people, full of faith. I haven’t met a Huckabee follower though, who I could say that about. They are more concerned about my salvation than their own, and they want me to get what’s coming to me–unless I join the Huckabee for religious dictator movement.

I’ve gone door to door preaching Christianity, at least what I believe, and I’ve seen governments try to stop me. But I don’t think that I have the right to force people to join my faith. Huckabites DO want to force their faith to be the “first among equals.” Don’t you see how that is a problem?

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:35 PM

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:35 PM

I see your point. I caution you to resist painting the broad brush here. Again, you had one incident with a Huck supporter. I’m sure there were others. But there are many benign Christians (who are attracted to Huckabee) who would never think of treating you in such a way. I was one of them for a time. His liberalism turned me off.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:40 PM

I can’t vote for a Huckabee ticket. It’s his hypocrisy. He is not what he says he is.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 1:49 PM

I’ve interviewed Gov Huckabee on a few occasions and have found him intelligent, honest, and refreshing.

posted at 12:28 pm on May 8, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

eaglesdontflock , have you ever interviewed Mike Huckabee?

Why should Hot Air readers trust your judgment over Ed Morrissey’s?

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM

What a bunch of idiots! All of them! And the RNC had the cajones to send me a request for money today! I told them I was a Conservative, not a Republican, and not to bother me any more until they returned to their base. I anticipate a Dem landslide this fall. It will serve the Republicans right, sorry to say.

ultracon on May 13, 2008 at 2:47 PM

Just read this thread: if you aren’t for Huck, you aren’t a Christian. That’s the claim of practically every single Huckabee supporter there is.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

I don’t believe that and I’ve never said that.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 2:48 PM

Just read this thread: if you aren’t for Huck, you aren’t a Christian. That’s the claim of practically every single Huckabee supporter there is.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

You should know better than making statements like this. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together can rip apart your logic.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:53 PM

But government schools can teach Islam, eh?

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:34 PM

No.

Linkage
fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:32 PM

More Linkage for Christian “hate speech.”
fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:37 PM

It’s the same event.

And sorry, but those remind me too much of Phelps for me to care. Christianity is not about protesting those who do things that are sins to us.

And while one group was thrown in jail for that, there are for more cases of Christians being allowed to protest without fear of arrest. They’re there every day in New Orleans, especially during Mardi Gras, and the Phelps crew hits up as many high profile funerals as possible without fear of arrest.

Being arrested for protesting a gay festival is a far cry from being arrested just for being a Christian.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:54 PM

You should know better than making statements like this. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together can rip apart your logic.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:53 PM

But that is the argument Olaf and apocalyps have been making.

I realize that this is a long thread, but you can read back through the pages if you don’t believe us.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:56 PM

If it is McCain-Huckabee, I will do a write-in vote for Romney. There should be at least one conservative on the Republican ticket.

The Republican Party is becoming too inclusive. McCain is trying to win Democrat votes by coming one. I can’t go along with that.

• Energy Independence
• Border Enforcement
• School Vouchers
• Lowering Taxes & Growing the Economy
• Free market federalist solutions to the high cost of Health Care
• Embracing Life and Traditional American Values

These are the issues where the GOP has the upper hand, and the majority of the opinion polls. It’s time for a new contract with America. It’s time for new conservative leadership. I don’t see any of that happening with a McCain-Huckabee ticket.

joncoltonis on May 13, 2008 at 2:56 PM

Read some of St. Olaf’s posts. He says what I said: If you don’t vote for Huck, you aren’t a Christian (or at least not a Christian who believes). None of you Huck supporters has disagreed with him or told him to tone down his rhetoric of Christianity=Huckabee supporter.

Red Pill: You have said numerous times that God wants Huckabee. Ergo, if God = Christ, and Christ wants Huckabee, to not be for Huckabee is to not follow Christ. I.e. any TRUE Christian supports Huckabee.

Simple logic, really. Based on your statements.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:57 PM

The unintended humor in the posts by the fundamentalist league makes threads like this worth following. Since I don’t believe in any of the 30,000 plus varieties of Christianity on today’s market, I find threats of hell fire liberally distributed here comparable to children’s playground threats.

The very notion that one would respond to an argument in a political thread by citing biblical verses is ludicrous, but some seem to think that all debate must be formulated within the confines of a book which is itself filled with internal contradictions and ambiguities.

One’s religion or lack thereof should have little or no bearing on political debate. An Atheist, agnostic, Catholic, Buddhist or Hindu can be for or against abortion, the death penalty, school choice etc. Find out what he/she stands for by asking questions and examining their record not by a religious litmus test. The religious test often leads to deception as is witnessed by the good Catholics like Admiral Kennedy of the Chappaquiddick navy who favor unlimited abortion even though their religion considers this a hell fire offense.

Annar on May 13, 2008 at 3:03 PM

I did. How so?

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 2:05 PM

The subject matter is the same.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:12 PM

I’m a Catholic. I’ve been denied jobs because of my faith, my kids have been taunted, attacked, threatened because they attended Catholic school. I’m also Irish. My ancestors had their property stolen by Protestants in Ireland, and were driven out and immigrated to America. Here, they were enslaved by Protestants in menial jobs, not allowed to vote, taunted and ridiculed. Some of them were killed.

I’ve attended recent protestant church services where hatred of Catholics was preached from the pulpit.

So far, I have never feared for my life and pretty much take all this in stride.

No Catholics or Irish need apply.

The only problem with Christianity in this country is a foreign political ideology imported to our shores for the purpose of destroying us from within. It masks as anti-Christian, but it is anti-democracy.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 3:07 PM

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 2:54 PM

Ok, first of all, you missed the link in my post.

Second of all, you just brushed off the fact that they were arrested for protesting and charged with felonies related to hate speech. If you’re going to intelligently comment on something, be sure to read the article fully.

Thirdly, this WASN’T the Phelps group, and this wasn’t a funeral for an Iraq veteran. Stop equivocating, it’s bad form.

Fourthly, just because this hasn’t swept the entire nation yet doesn’t invalidate the example. You need to (as you love to point out) read back and see why I posted the link in the first place. You challenged me to post a link where a Christian was jailed for his faith, and I did. You did this in response to my challenge to show a link where an atheist has been jailed for being an atheist, which nobody has yet done. You are now engaged in flash and distract tactics, but don’t worry, I won’t let you stray off topic.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 3:08 PM

Intertwined with the Huckabite believer system is that Evangelical Christianity should rule the government. Not just a Christian ethos, but specific Evangelical Christian doctrine.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

I don’t believe that and I’ve never said that.
I want the First Amendment to be honored as it was originally written: i.e., the Congress shall make no (and judicial activist courts shall not create any) law:

respecting an establishment of religion, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereof (of religion); or

abridging the freedom of (religious) speech , or

(abridging the freedom) of the (religious) press; or

the right of the people peaceably to assemble (for religious services or otherwise), and

to petition the Government for a redress of (religious) grievances (as the founders petitioned the King of England for his Biblical offenses, which went unanswered and led to the Declaration of Independence)

Government has no right to restrict these rights. They are unalienable rights, endowed by our Creator.

If we fail to protect these rights for anyone, we fail to protect these rights for everyone.

If it becomes OK to silence Christians because of a belief in the unconstitutional concept of “separation of church and state”, we all lose.

Huckabee is no longer a pastor, and I don’t want a “Pastor in Chief”. He has been running for position in the executive branch of our government, and he will respect the Constitution more than McCain (-Feingold), Hillary! or Obama ever would. The commercial with Huckabee as “Christian Leader” was introducing him to people who didn’t know him…it is part of his bio…he was a Christian Leader (pastor)…he was not claiming that the United States has to have a Christian Leader or that he would be a leader of only Christians as President of the United States. He would honor the Constitution just as our current Evangelical, Born-Again Christian President has.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:11 PM

eaglesdontflock , have you ever interviewed Mike Huckabee?

Why should Hot Air readers trust your judgment over Ed Morrissey’s?

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 2:41 PM

Surely you aren’t serious. I spent a lot of time in Arkansas while he was governor. i know Ed Rollins. The record speaks, who needs an interview.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 3:11 PM

Cant understand why all you Romney Backers are so bitter against Huckabee, It seems like you hate him worse than the Clintons, or something like that.

Personaly, I think Mccain should not choose Romney or Huckabee for that exact reason, the two camps hate the other. Huckabee Backers wont back Mccain if they see a Romney as Vp, and neither will Romney Backers if they see Huck as VP. Either way, the Republicans loose to obama, (Not Hard this year, with Chuck Baldwin, the Libertarians, and the writeinns,) Anyway, Romney wont be selected, Mccain dislikes him.

Why cant their be a truse on the blog?

clover_dave on May 13, 2008 at 3:12 PM

The Huckabites have never learned the fact that insulting others does not make others want to respect them.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

Pot, meet kettle.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:13 PM

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 3:07 PM

Where do you live? Because I was Catholic the first half of my life and still am Irish, as is my HUGE extended family (my parents are each one of 6 children and my grandparents come from good Irish Catholic large families too) which lives all up and down the east coast, and also in Kansas and Colorado, and NONE of us have experienced what you’re describing. Can you cite any equal-opportunity lawsuit or anything at all to back up your anecdotes as being a problem?

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 3:13 PM

Intertwined with the Huckabite believer system is that Evangelical Christianity should rule the government.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

I respect the first amendment.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:15 PM

Ok, first of all, you missed the link in my post.

No, I went to all three. I just didn’t repost them when I responded.

Second of all, you just brushed off the fact that they were arrested for protesting and charged with felonies related to hate speech. If you’re going to intelligently comment on something, be sure to read the article fully.

I caught that. I’m just not sympathetic to Phelps-type Christians. I don’t even like to consider them Christians.

Thirdly, this WASN’T the Phelps group, and this wasn’t a funeral for an Iraq veteran. Stop equivocating, it’s bad form.

I know that. Both their methods are disgusting and more self-serving than anything.

You challenged me to post a link where a Christian was jailed for his faith, and I did.

Again, the Christian faith does not call on people to protest others. They weren’t just being Christians by Bible thumping and attempting to ruin a festival. They were simply trying to promote themselves.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 3:16 PM

Why cant their be a truse on the blog?

clover_dave on May 13, 2008 at 3:12 PM

Good question. The answer is that conservatives always make candidate selection an emo issue, and fail to debate the substance of the candidates’ positions. The primary is treated like a football game between the Redskins and the Cowboys, and the supporters are no different than the fans. Then the media decides the candidate for them, and everybody is so bitter that they start clawing at each other.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 3:19 PM

We already have one Messiah in this race: Obama. But Obama’s followers don’t claim divine providence for their candidate. The Huckabites DO. Just look at Red Pill sometime–he claims all the time that God will have Huckabee. Several other pastors I have tangled with who support Huckabee claim the same thing.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

I didn’t ask God to make Mike Huckabee President.

The Holy Spirit told me that Mike Huckabee will be the next President.

There is a difference. A big difference. And it doesn’t matter if you like it or not, it’s the truth.

It appears that I am not the only one who was given that prophecy. Good.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:19 PM

I didn’t ask God to make Mike Huckabee President.

The Holy Spirit told me that Mike Huckabee will be the next President.

There is a difference. A big difference. And it doesn’t matter if you like it or not, it’s the truth.

It appears that I am not the only one who was given that prophecy. Good
Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:19 PM

I don’t think this will win you any converts. It’s too similar to this.

phronesis on May 13, 2008 at 3:21 PM

Again, the Christian faith does not call on people to protest others. They weren’t just being Christians by Bible thumping and attempting to ruin a festival. They were simply trying to promote themselves.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 3:16 PM

AGAIN, no matter your opinion on this, it should not be illegal. Remember that pesky First Amendment thingie? Or are you one of those who advocates hate speech laws be used against Christians?

You still haven’t acknowledged that I did supply the link you requested. You’re still trying to distract from the issue. Christians are more persecuted in this country than atheists are.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 3:21 PM

Red Pill: I still maintain this: how do I know Huckabee won’t target my faith? I’m a Mormon–and Huckabee stirred up lots of anti-Mormon sentiment on purpose.

The general Evangelical attitude to the Mormon faith is that I’m a follower of Satan; this is actively preached by most Evangelical Preachers. Despite this radical point of view pushed by said pastors, most Evangelicals won’t do much.

The Huckabites want to do more. For them, Mormons are part of the problem in America, best as I can tell. My faith has experienced so-called “Evangelical tolerance” in the past, and seeing as we lost lots of lives over it, to people who sound eeriely like Huckabites nowdays, I feel I have a legitimate worry.

clover_dave; the reason Romney supporters have “issues” with Huckabee personally is because Huckabee tried to subtly demonize him for his faith.

Here’s the basic issue: For a Huckabite follower, religion is the paramount consideration. It trumps all. Red Pill, do you not agree? Is not then, a definition of theocracy: being governed by specific religious principles first and foremost?

That’s the appeal of Huck–he’ll govern in a “Christian way!” That’s also the fear: he’ll govern in a “Christian way” that has shown little evidence of tolerating anything different than that way.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 3:22 PM

Allah and I join in rejecting Huckabite theology: we are totally unalike in our views on God, but Allah and I would both be in danger under a Huckabite political system. For all of Hillary’s faults, she probably wouldn’t try to kill me for my faith. Under Huckabee’s system, I am sure he wouldn’t either, but he’d not really stop anyone else. And that’s my fear.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:10 PM

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:7

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Where do you live? Because I was Catholic the first half of my life and still am Irish, as is my HUGE extended family (my parents are each one of 6 children and my grandparents come from good Irish Catholic large families too) which lives all up and down the east coast, and also in Kansas and Colorado, and NONE of us have experienced what you’re describing. Can you cite any equal-opportunity lawsuit or anything at all to back up your anecdotes as being a problem?

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 3:13 PM

How about the South, Laura. Evangelicals in the South and Southwest dislike Catholics. Church of Christ despises Catholics. As does good old Pastor Hagee, who is featured here today.

Laws against bigotry don’t cure bigotry, just pushes it underground. People get a lot more creative to circumvent the law. Since you blog, you should be able to uncover some willing examples. Not me, I don’t feel like a sacrificial lamb. My Irish ancestors came in the 1800′s, so I doubt they filed an equal opportunity lawsuit.

Have you ever filed a discrimination complaint? If so, would you ever file another one?

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Personaly, I think Mccain should not choose Romney or Huckabee for that exact reason

I agree, actually. Neither would make a particularly good vice president. I think McCain is going to pick Pawlenty or Sanford.

Slublog on May 13, 2008 at 3:24 PM

Gotta go guys, got an interview for a new j-o-b. Been good talking with you. Cya tomorrow.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 3:25 PM

Linkage

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 2:32 PM

Once again, thanks for the link.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:26 PM

How about the South, Laura. Evangelicals in the South and Southwest dislike Catholics.

No kidding? I guess I missed that growing up here in New Orleans and in the years I lived in Jacksonville, Washington DC, and Maryland. My family in Mississippi and Alabama have borne it stoically all these years, never ONCE mentioning it. How odd.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 3:29 PM

AGAIN, no matter your opinion on this, it should not be illegal. Remember that pesky First Amendment thingie? Or are you one of those who advocates hate speech laws be used against Christians?

If the hate speech law fits…

Actually, in all honesty, I don’t support hate laws of any kind, and I don’t believe people should be jailed simply because their speech is hateful.

I wasn’t talking about what should be legal. I’m only giving you my opinion on that group, and I don’t care for them. I think they give Christians a bad name, and I wish they’d quietly go away.

You still haven’t acknowledged that I did supply the link you requested. You’re still trying to distract from the issue. Christians are more persecuted in this country than atheists are.

fossten on May 13, 2008 at 3:21 PM

How did I not acknowledge it? I was talking to you about it. You provided two links referencing the same event.

And your argument is impossible to prove. If atheists were out protesting Christian activities on a regular basis, calling Christians dirty names and causing disturbances without being arrested, you’d be correct.

But as it is, atheists are publishing books instead.

There are too many variables in your equation.

How about the South, Laura. Evangelicals in the South and Southwest dislike Catholics.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Yes, in the South we’re all a bunch a bigots. We’re easy scapegoats.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 3:31 PM

I am truly surprised at how many “conservatives” here are godless heathen atheist liberals at heart.

Really….what possesses you to join the republican party?

Assuredly most of you who I’m referring to are pro abortion, pro gay marriage,anti Christian and pro secular human indoctrination….why join the republican party?

I could go to HuffPo or one of the lib sites and from listening to them talk I can be certain that 95%+ of them are heading towards hell, but even here it is obvious that the majority of so called “conservatives” here are children of hell and liberals at heart.

Is that shocking to anyone else?

Silverfox,

You obviously have no idea what the love of Christ is all about…it is to seek and save the lost..to love your brother and LOVE YOUR ENEMIES.

Yes the atheists and the mormons and other cultists here are enemies to me…but I love them and will seek to save them regardless.

If I was a hateful man I would SAY NOTHING to you and laugh to myself about how you are going to burn in hell for eternity!

But I’m not a hateful man..I have the love of Christ and love my enemies and I’ll warn you…You’re on a path to destruction!

Put this in your spirit….This is the Love of Christ: to love your enemies,to seek and save the lost!

I truly wonder how many of you so called “conservatives” will switch parties now that the republican party has become(of necessity) the populist party of the poor. (see my earlier posts on first few pages)

SaintOlaf on May 13, 2008 at 3:32 PM

I am truly surprised at how many “conservatives” here are godless heathen atheist liberals at heart.

And I’m surprised by how many “Christians” (and I use the term lightly) are such nutjob, psycho, David Koresh wannabes.

It’s absolutely frightening.

Esthier on May 13, 2008 at 3:34 PM

SaintOlaf on May 13, 2008 at 3:32 PM

Here is a point olaf, though you count me as an enemy, I do not see you as an enemy, a jerk yes, but not an enemy.

To add, you have no clue what it means to be a conservative, so stop being so surprised.

Conservative Voice on May 13, 2008 at 3:37 PM

Real Christians wouldn’t do that, of course not. But real Christians, as has been discussed in this very thread, leave the judging to God. Huckabites don’t. They have arrogated unto themselves the power to judge people’s eternal salvation, and if they are in their view slated for hell, the Huckabites don’t particularly care about them on Earth.

Evangelicals, to be clear, and taken as a whole, are nice people, full of faith. I haven’t met a Huckabee follower though, who I could say that about. They are more concerned about my salvation than their own, and they want me to get what’s coming to me–unless I join the Huckabee for religious dictator movement.

I’ve gone door to door preaching Christianity, at least what I believe, and I’ve seen governments try to stop me. But I don’t think that I have the right to force people to join my faith. Huckabites DO want to force their faith to be the “first among equals.” Don’t you see how that is a problem?

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:35 PM

I consider myself a “Real Christian”.
What do you consider me?

I consider myself a “nice person, full of faith”.
What do you consider me?

I’m not judging you, but it sure seems like you are judging me when you say, “I haven’t met a Huckabee follower though, who I could say that about.”

I take it you are a LDS/Mormon. If so, why not come out and say it?

I’ve seen a lot more Huckabee hatred from LDS/Mormons than I’ve seen LDS/Mormon hatred from Evangelicals.

And please stop saying “Huckabites” if you want to be taken seriously.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:38 PM

How about the South, Laura. Evangelicals in the South and Southwest dislike Catholics.

No kidding? I guess I missed that growing up here in New Orleans and in the years I lived in Jacksonville, Washington DC, and Maryland. My family in Mississippi and Alabama have borne it stoically all these years, never ONCE mentioning it. How odd.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 3:29 PM

Perhaps you haven’t lived in the right places. Florida is not considered part of the real South. Heavily Catholic there. Maryland, heavily Catholic since the 1600′s. Louisiana, heavily Catholic, especially New Orleans and surrounding counties. Washington D.C., hardly southern.

Just because you haven’t experienced it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. And I have experienced it, so please don’t imply that I am not telling the truth. Try Tennessee, 2% Catholic in the ’80′s, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky and yes, Mississippi.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 3:38 PM

You know, Joseph Smith once said something very profound. Joseph Smith was the first prophet of the LDS church.

The thing he said was that if all the Mormons went to hell, we would make a heaven out of it.

I.e. we are responsible for our own actions. If I’m in hell with all my friends, family, etc–that wouldn’t be “hell”, at least in my opinion. Conversely, to go to heaven and be around the attitudes that some Huckabee supporters have? The intolerance and rigid self-righteousness? That sounds like hell to me.

If I have to choose between being in hell with all those who reject Huckabite doctrine and self-righteousness, or going to the same place as them, but they call it heaven–I’ll go to hell, thank you.

And I’ll wager I’d be joined by Christ Himself, if only to get a break from the holier than thou attitude expressed by St. Huckabee and his followers.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 3:41 PM

• Energy Independence
• Border Enforcement
• School Vouchers
• Lowering Taxes & Growing the Economy
• Free market federalist solutions to the high cost of Health Care
• Embracing Life and Traditional American Values

These are the issues where the GOP has the upper hand, and the majority of the opinion polls. It’s time for a new contract with America. It’s time for new conservative leadership. I don’t see any of that happening with a McCain-Huckabee ticket.

joncoltonis on May 13, 2008 at 2:56 PM

You don’t seem to realize that all of those bullet points are part of Huckabee’s platform. I would link you to his issues page (as I have done in the past), but now everything redirects to huckpac.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:41 PM

Florida is not considered part of the south? Are you insane?

They’re all below the Mason Dixon line, eagles. I specifically listed Mississippi and Alabama, and I know people and have traveled in all those states as well. My in laws are from Arkansas.

What you’re describing simply doesn’t exist these days; while there was some anti-Catholic bias in the early 60s particularly when JFK ran, people have been over it for a long long time. As for the “no Irish need apply” that’s been debunked too.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 3:46 PM

Red Pill: You have said numerous times that God wants Huckabee. Ergo, if God = Christ, and Christ wants Huckabee, to not be for Huckabee is to not follow Christ. I.e. any TRUE Christian supports Huckabee.

Simple logic, really. Based on your statements.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 2:57 PM

But your logic is faulty. Prophecy is a foretelling of a future event. It does not imply God’s endorsement. Now, with that said, I believe that Mike Huckabee is the only candidate in this race who would be willing to confess publicly that, “Jesus is Lord“. If you consider that “God wants Huckabee”, so be it.

People can absolutely be TRUE Christians and not believe the prophecy.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:47 PM

Florida is not considered part of the south? Are you insane?

Let me amend that – if you want to take the Civil War sentiment, then there’s a case to be made, but in modern times, no freaking way. So yes, you’re insane, but you would have been right a century ago.

Laura on May 13, 2008 at 3:47 PM

Red Pill: Look, I think you are okay; but you are deluded somewhat. As best as I can tell, evangelical Christianity rejects revelation, so I can’t see how you can consistently be one and claim revelation from the Holy Spirit.

I AM LDS or Mormon, and I’ve never been shy of that fact. I asked you upthread why should any Mormon vote for Huck, considering his anti-Mormon stance and encouraging of the same.

As for “more anti-Huck than anti-Mormon” stuff: I mentioned upthread the death threats one Huck supporter made about Mormons if we went to Missouri. People complain about Phelps; well, no one really complains about the Phelps like tactics Evangelicals use against Mormons. Most of those I predict are Huck followers. They protest, they smear, tell me I’m going to hell, interrupt weddings and funerals–I’ve seen it with my own two eyes. They descend like the plague on my little town every year, to attempt to interrupt and ruin a pageant that our town holds.
Up in Salt Lake, they mock our beliefs, go out of their way to interrupt weddings, and in general try to be as obnoxious as possible, hoping to finally get some Mormon to react to them so they can claim how evil Mormons are and against the word of God.

Think of Paul going around holding sacred Jewish sacrifices outside synagogues and the Jewish Temple to mock the Jews–do you think that is the Spirit of God? That’s what I have experienced with the likely Huckabite Evangelical crowd.

Yes, I have an extremely poor view of the militant wing of Evangelicalism. And you want me to support Huckabee, the guy that crowd loves? Forgetaboutit

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 3:51 PM

Oh, and Red Pill: Romney would say Jesus is Lord. Just that none of the Huckabee Crowd would believe him. In fact, Romney HAS said that Christ is who he follows. But of course, he’s Mormon and everyone knows Mormons are (fill in blank with slander here). So there’s not much point, is there?

Still, to say that Romney doesn’t believe in Christ or wouldn’t say so shows a remarkable lack of knowledge about Romney, who didn’t work on his father’s campaign because he was off preaching about how Jesus is Lord in France, to a people who needed the message.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 3:56 PM

If I have to choose between being in hell with all those who reject Huckabite doctrine and self-righteousness, or going to the same place as them, but they call it heaven–I’ll go to hell, thank you.

And I’ll wager I’d be joined by Christ Himself, if only to get a break from the holier than thou attitude expressed by St. Huckabee and his followers.

Vanceone on May 13, 2008 at 3:41 PM

This discussion, as all discussions about the VP spot, has been turned into slop bucket. The real issue is who can best lead this nation of many parts and beliefs. The Huckabee supporters turned it into a referendum on Mormonism, at the suggestion of Mr. Rollins, who is great at hate.

Mitt Romney exhibited all of the key elements of the type of leader who could lead diversity within the framework of a Christian constitution. I have no fear of his Mormon faith getting in the way of his ability to govern fairly. He has proven his ability time and time again.

I’m still a Romney supporter, but not a bitter one. This isn’t about Romney supporters hating Huckabee. Huckabee and his campaign staff insured there would be plenty of hate by their campaign strategy.

It’s sad that a man of Romney’s caliber can be derailed by charlatans masquerading as Christians. Rollins. The game plan was to make faith an issue. How ugly for a man of faith, Huckabee. Unchristian. An ugly political strategy that has fractured the Republican Party. Funny, Huckabee looks like a good Democrat from here.

eaglesdontflock on May 13, 2008 at 3:56 PM

I don’t think this will win you any converts.

phronesis on May 13, 2008 at 3:21 PM

I’m not trying to win converts for Huckabee.

I’m sharing a prophecy I was told to share.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:59 PM

I didn’t ask God to make Mike Huckabee President.

The Holy Spirit told me that Mike Huckabee will be the next President.

Red Pill on May 13, 2008 at 3:19 PM

Then why don’t you believe Him instead of doing battle with every peceived enemy of Huckabee you find on the blog? If it’s true you don’t need to do anything, it will happen. Instead you come here and offend as many as you can.

Shay on May 13, 2008 at 4:00 PM

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