NYT op-ed: Would Muslims regard Obama as an apostate?

posted at 3:08 pm on May 12, 2008 by Allahpundit

More specifically, wonders Edward Luttwak, would it matter? I’m skeptical.

His conversion … was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is “irtidad” or “ridda,” usually translated from the Arabic as “apostasy,” but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim’s family may choose to forgive)…

At the very least, that would complicate the security planning of state visits by President Obama to Muslim countries, because the very act of protecting him would be sinful for Islamic security guards. More broadly, most citizens of the Islamic world would be horrified by the fact of Senator Obama’s conversion to Christianity once it became widely known — as it would, no doubt, should he win the White House. This would compromise the ability of governments in Muslim nations to cooperate with the United States in the fight against terrorism, as well as American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad.

That an Obama presidency would cause such complications in our dealings with the Islamic world is not likely to be a major factor with American voters, and the implication is not that it should be. But of all the well-meaning desires projected on Senator Obama, the hope that he would decisively improve relations with the world’s Muslims is the least realistic.

If it’s jihadi assassination attempts he’s worried about, I’d guess that Islamist antipathy towards the U.S. president is already pretty well maxed out. If it’s diplomatic difficulties he fears, remember that our Wahhabist friends in the Kingdom have a curious ability to lay aside their many, many prejudices in the interests of advancing their foreign policy agenda. They deal with Condi Rice despite the fact that she bears the dreaded XX chromosome of shame and they hosted Henry Kissinger when he was SoS despite his, ahem, ape/pig heritage. Also, the fact of Obama’s conversion is already “widely known” within the United States, at least, and he’s suffered no adverse consequences for it from Muslims as far as I know. Granted, American Muslims may be more tolerant than their Middle Eastern counterparts, but if it’s in the Koran you’d expect at least some opposition to him here on apostate grounds. Instead, the LA Times finds Palestinians cheering him on, secure in the belief that his pro-Zionist rhetoric is nothing more than an election year pander. To the extent that his apostasy matters at all abroad, I wonder if it might not play the same way — that he’s secretly still on the team and just telling the infidels what they need to hear to vote for him.

Exit quotation: I agree with Pipes. “On the positive side, were Obama prominently charged with apostasy, that would uniquely raise the issue of a Muslim’s right to change religion, taking a topic on the perpetual back-burner and placing it front and center, perhaps to the great future benefit of those Muslims who seek to declare themselves atheists or to convert to another religion.” Not to mention making it safe for the left to take full umbrage at this sort of fascism without worrying that they’re playing into the wingnuts’ hands.

Update: Headlines comments imported.


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He also took some Islamic classes as a young child and was identified in school records as Muslim. So yea, technically, yea, Obama is an apostate. I guess you would have to ask an Imam for a ruling.

bnelson44 on May 12, 2008 at 10:55 AM

We had this discussion with Robert Spencer a while back in the BtQ posts. Iirc, Robert’s opinion is, Islam will still receive Obama positively. That is, he won’t be treated as an apostate but as somebody who can see things from their POV.

TheBigOldDog on May 12, 2008 at 11:03 AM

Hopefully Obama will learn that if crazy Muslims try to kill him, he’s need to kill them right back.

frankj on May 12, 2008 at 11:06 AM

Can someone provide a link that shows that Obama is a Christian, and:

1. Believes that Jesus rose again?
2. Believes that Jesus is more than just a prophet? (Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet)
3. Obama has been baptised?

I have heard people say Obama is a Christian because he attends Trinity. I don’t see Trinity as being a Christian church at all.

faraway on May 12, 2008 at 11:12 AM

faraway on May 12, 2008 at 11:12 AM

Here’s the link.

frankj on May 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM

Two extremely false statements in this article…

First, Obama is half black… didn’t do his research… he is ARAB American by law.

CHARGE 14 –

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 11:29 AM

The question I keep asking whenever this comes up: how would this put Obama in any more danger than any other president? Because you can’t tell me that Islamists wouldn’t love to off the Crusader GWB. It seems to me that may have been the purpose of Flight 93.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 11:29 AM

Well good morning, dupe.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:32 AM

I was about to comment “Romeo13, duck because baldi is going to see this soon enough”, and by the time I logged in…here’s baldi!

Entelechy on May 12, 2008 at 11:34 AM

I have heard people say Obama is a Christian because he attends Trinity. I don

landlines on May 12, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Here’s the link to Romeo13′s perennial spam on made-up genetics, anthropology and law which he saves for Obama threads. (For some reason, he always “forgets” to add that link.)

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:38 AM

On March 6, 2007, Barack Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth.” In an interview with The New York Times, Senator Obama recited, “with a first-class [Arabic] accent,” the opening lines of this prayer:

“Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet… “

faraway on May 12, 2008 at 11:39 AM

The question I keep asking whenever this comes up: how would this put Obama in any more danger than any other president? Because you can

Quisp on May 12, 2008 at 11:40 AM

It’s likely that, during childhood, John McCain was going to Vacation Bible School, learning to play baseball, learning to bowl, and learning the words to the National Anthem while Obama was learning the Muslim call to prayer.

faraway on May 12, 2008 at 11:43 AM

On March 6, 2007, Barack Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is

funky chicken on May 12, 2008 at 11:44 AM

Quisp on May 12, 2008 at 11:40 AM

How does that address what I asked?

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:46 AM

I have heard people say Obama is a Christian because he attends Trinity. I don

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:53 AM

The question I keep asking whenever this comes up: how would this put Obama in any more danger than any other president? Because you can

bnelson44 on May 12, 2008 at 12:01 PM

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:38 AM

Try this one then….

http://kennethelamb.blogspot.com/2008/02/barak-obama-questions-about-ethnic.html

Article is part way down, you actualy have to dig a bit.

“Need proof? Research the Kenyan records for yourself. You will find that his father was officially classified as “Arab African” by the Kenyan government”

Question is, is this guy telling a lie? He seems pretty convinced of his documentary evidence.

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 12:01 PM

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Very simple. To off Bush would be a political act. To off a heretic is a RELIGIOUS act which Allah himself through Moh says is your DUTY.

Unless a Mullah writes a Fatwa on Bush, it would not really be condoned… but a Heretic is ALWAYS fair game.

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 12:04 PM

To yak it up too much on Obama’s race/religion is stupid. Here are topics one can validly nail him on:

- liberal, somewhere between socilist-Marxist
- elitist
- no experience on foreign policy, and for many reasons his ideas are down right dangerous to this country
- not tough, in these times
- intellectual, idealist, Utopian, pie in the sky “Change” and “Hope”, with no practical ideas, and how to pay for them
- tax us into oblivion
- not America first
- little experience on national matters
- judgment problems galore, yes these can be addressed, even if the media and his ‘lovers’ claim racism
- his wife, the anarchist, narcissist, blame-America, America is the devil, America is as depressing and as deprived as someone in prison. Her eyes and her speeches tell it all. The woman is nuts and it’s hard to imagine her as First Lady
- both their claim to be brought up poor, when in fact both weren’t
- his alliances, all of them, and what that says
- his inability to accept who he is: his background, his family, yes the other half, his middle name, his childhood, his extraordinary drive to wish to be way more Black than he is
- his Judas-like precocious jump into the race, due to pressure from his wife. Hillary apparently made it possible that he spoke at the 2004 convention (little did she know)
- his vacuous speeches – there’s nothing there there; “yes, we can” won’t do a thing. Hope over experience means nothing, if not exemplified

Finally, to claim that the topic of race s/b entirely off the table is as insane as talking about it entirely.

Entelechy on May 12, 2008 at 12:11 PM

Muslims have already weighed Obama’s apostasy against the benefits his presidency would bring. Obama would not be in danger at all, but America herself would be in terms of more appeasement to soft jihad and creeping shari’a.

I can’t know a man’s inner thoughts, but I don’t think Obama is particularly religious. It is fairly obvious that he used Trinity for the political connections it brought him.

Connie on May 12, 2008 at 12:13 PM

I can

RushBaby on May 12, 2008 at 12:24 PM

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:46 AM

from the article:

another provision of Muslim law is perhaps more relevant: It prohibits punishment for any Muslim who kills any apostate, and effectively prohibits interference with such a killing.

Much like the police congratulated the father for defending his honor. If it happened in a Muslim country, we might not get a lot of help searching out the culprits. Accorting to Luttwak’s scenario.

Quisp on May 12, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Entelechy on May 12, 2008 at 12:11 PM

Question.

If Obama, from the outset, potrayed himself as an ARAB American, would he have:

A. been elected to the Senate?
B. Be getting 90% of the Black vote in primaries?
C. Be gettin a pass and Manlove from the MSM?

Blacks in this country got a raw deal, and some of it continues to this day. But Barraka was raised in Indonesia, and a Hawaiian suburb, went to Prep schools and GREAT Colleges…

His forbears had NOTHING to do with slavery, on either side. They did NOT put up with any institutional bias.

His Father was a well off Arab politician from Kenya. His Mother a White woman…

So, just how does this make him African American?

His wife? Definatly Black… but then my Brother is married to a Black woman, does that make him Black? Kids? yep…

Problem is that Race relations in this country are so muddled, and have so much emotion invested in them, that they become unrational.

But don’t worry, because I question, I’m a dupe…

PS: Wonder is this could be a reason Hill is still in the race? If she can spread doubt on his ability to deliver the Black vote in the General… its a very powerfull arguement to Super Dels.

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 12:33 PM

“… we just don

Tony737 on May 12, 2008 at 12:34 PM

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 12:35 PM

O/T

Happy Birthday NORAD

RushBaby on May 12, 2008 at 12:38 PM

“His forbears had NOTHING to do with slavery.” – Romeo

I agree with everything else on your post except this, and I understand how you mean it, but if he’s Arab, his forebears had a LOT to do with slavery … just on the other side of it!

Tony737 on May 12, 2008 at 12:39 PM

Very simple. To off Bush would be a political act. To off a heretic is a RELIGIOUS act which Allah himself through Moh says is your DUTY.

Unless a Mullah writes a Fatwa on Bush, it would not really be condoned

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Romeo13, we don’t know a lot about him, yet. Much will come to light between now and Nov. The media have done him, and us, a huge disservice, which they will come to regret. However, there is plenty to nail him on with what we know, that makes it more credible.

I have no idea why there is so much talk about 90+ percent of Blacks voting for him, when in fact that percentage would vote for Hillary, or any liberal candidate. That should be the focus of the discussion, why that is, what will change that, if ever…etc.

Entelechy on May 12, 2008 at 12:46 PM

Obama is willing to sit down with Islamic tyrants, but will they be willing to sit down with him?

I hope we never find out.

forest on May 12, 2008 at 12:46 PM

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 12:51 PM

Barack Obama’s race is totally and completely unimportant to Republicans.

The Race Card on May 12, 2008 at 12:56 PM

Psyche!

The Race Card on May 12, 2008 at 12:56 PM

I have no idea why there is so much talk about 90+ percent of Blacks voting for him, when in fact that percentage would vote for Hillary, or any liberal candidate.

Entelechy on May 12, 2008 at 12:46 PM

I was thinking about that this morning. If there were no Obama, Hillary might get, say, 70% of the black vote in the primaries, but would get 90+ in the GE. 2004? Kerry got 88% in the GE. Not much higher to go.

Leftists have done their work well.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Offing Bush would be a political victory for many Islamic countrys, BUT, unless there is a Fatwa stating he is an enemy of Islam, and thus it is Jihad to off him? You don’t got to heaven…

Killing a heretic is ALWAYS your duty. No Fatwa needed. You are doing your duty and if you die in the attempt you get yer Virgins…

Not saying it makes sense… but when you cross the thin line between politics and religion over there, its like theres a switch flipped in their brains… They go basicly irrational…

So the difference is a Billion or so Mulsims throughout the world believing its their DUTY to kill a heretic… and that switch flipping…

Or what would be a Political act of war… not a religious act (unless theres a Fatwa).

Totaly different levels of commitment…

I know it does not make a lot of sense to Americans… but thats what I’ve seen from personal experience over there.

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM

Psyche!

The Race Card on May 12, 2008 at 12:56 PM

Some Republicans, my dear.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM

Barack Obama

Entelechy on May 12, 2008 at 1:12 PM

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 1:01 PM

I couldn’t care less about their whack-a** religious legalism! Who cares whether they think they’re going to heaven or not?

The thing is this: practically speaking, an Islamist offing a POTUS would be an enormous victory for them and a disaster for us no matter who sits in the WH. And GWB is just as vulnerable to it as O would be–as was so even before Iraq and Afghanistan. If the apostate business and Islam’s fatwa craziness doesn’t affect those realities then neither issue matters.

Let’s keep our eye on the ball, shall we?

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 1:13 PM

Luttwak is about a year late, and he misses one important point, which I discuss here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020987.php

Robert Spencer on May 12, 2008 at 1:33 PM

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 1:13 PM

I get it that you don’t understand…

Let me put it this way…

Whats going to get deeply religous people more motivated, and more people attempting somthing…

A Politician telling you to do somthing…

or GOD telling you to do somthing…

It really is just that stark of a difference in THEIR minds.

Should it impact our decision making process as to who we want to be President? no… do we need to be aware of potential consequences? Heck ya…

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 1:37 PM

I get it that you don

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Robert Spencer on May 12, 2008 at 1:33 PM

Thanks, but a question.

Under Islamic law, do you have to make some declaration of NOT being Moslem at puberty, as you have already said the Prayers which, under some Law, makes you Moslem?

In other words, is it a case where you are considered Moslem unless you state otherwise? Or is it a case where once you say the prayers AFTER puberty, you are the Moslem?

Fine distinction, but this is a Religious Legal question, which is all based on specifics (kinda like some Christian sects don’t really consider you part of the religion until you are “confirmed”?).

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 1:44 PM

Barack Obama

Connie on May 12, 2008 at 1:45 PM

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Being one of those infidels that they tried to off? sorry, not ignoring it.

I can’t explain the different mindsets you run into over there any better than I have. There is a HUGE distinction between Religous, Tribal, and political motivations… and crossing those lines brings up entire other levels of not only commitment, but how many people will commit to that act.

Romeo13 on May 12, 2008 at 1:51 PM

I can

tommylotto on May 12, 2008 at 1:53 PM

His profession of any faith is false. He has no principles. It was all a political strategy.

This, I buy.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 2:01 PM

President Obama’s First 100 Days in office:
1. Install footbaths in the White House
2. Presidential Commission to consider repainting the White House
3. Install minarets in the West Wing
4. World Muslim conference
5. Pull combat troops out of Iraq (station in Okinawa)
6. Sell Dinnerjacket a couple of aircraft carriers

faraway on May 12, 2008 at 2:04 PM

Romeo13,

We’re talking past each other. I get that they may have more motivation to off the apostate rather than the infidel who fights back (GWB). What I’m saying is it would make no difference in what would happen in the aftermath for Americans. And that’s what we should care about.

BTW, have you noticed the savagery with which al Qaeda treats captured “infidel crusders?” And not an apostate among the latter as far as I know.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 2:06 PM

crusaders

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 2:09 PM

tommylotto on May 12, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Pretty much agree with that.

Connie on May 12, 2008 at 2:30 PM

We have to care what Muslims think of someone who couldn’t get elected?

Akzed on May 12, 2008 at 3:10 PM

I”m skeptical also. Import headline convo? A request.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 3:11 PM

This isn’t about religion. It’s about attempted world takeover, with religion as the center of the manifest destiny. They won’t touch him, because they know too well that he’s got Neville Chamberlain’s “Peace for our time” written all over him.

Wait, sorry, I misspoke. The comparison is unfair. Chamberlain worked his backside off to actually try to avert war with a peaceful solution, even in giving away the Sudetenland. Obama has no interest in peace, as evidenced by his cozying up with William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright.

MadisonConservative on May 12, 2008 at 3:12 PM

Has anyone asked a Muslim cleric?

bnelson44 on May 12, 2008 at 3:13 PM

Wasn’t Wright a Muslim at one point?

I think these types are Mohammadian candidates. There would bring no greater joy to fascist Islam than to have the Prez of the USA call to morning prayers, which I understand Obama does very well.

Hening on May 12, 2008 at 3:15 PM

If anything is apparent it’s that Obama will use whatever vehicle handy to put him where he wants to be. A pair of vehicles could even be at ideological odds with each other. It’s the destination that matters.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 3:16 PM

2. Presidential Commission to consider repainting the White House

The Black House, or The Striped House?

Hening on May 12, 2008 at 3:17 PM

Wasn’t Wright a Muslim at one point?

Hening on May 12, 2008 at 3:15 PM

Yep. And Obama marched with Farrakhan.

amerpundit on May 12, 2008 at 3:18 PM

By Islamic law he is an apostate. I agree with Spencer that the assertion he’s still secretly a Muslim is “a lot of hooey” but sharia is sharia. However, when you look at Mid-East Islam’s treatment of American liberals, including gays, women, and anyone else who will be a dhimmi and useful idiot for their cause, it’s pretty clear to me that Obama will be exempt. Remember how Nancy Pelosi is a “co-president”?

OneGyT on May 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM

Anyone hear Rush highlighting that the UN annully celebrates (recognizes) the 57 (that’s FIFTY-SEVEN) Islaamic States.. So perhaps Barry-O was referring to the 57 Islaamic States he has visited.

stenwin77 on May 12, 2008 at 3:23 PM

This isn’t about religion.

After reading the Pipes link, I think it’s about Obama and his campaign making yet another claim, then having to back away some and still not being very convincing.

He was never a Muslim.

I mean, he was never a practicing Muslim.

Oh, I don’t know why the paperwork says he was Muslim.

Hey, look over there…

MamaAJ on May 12, 2008 at 3:26 PM

Thanks, AP, for pulling this out front – especially in light of Robert’s contribution.

Connie on May 12, 2008 at 3:26 PM

If he were a republican it sure as hell would matter.

Jimmy the Dhimmi on May 12, 2008 at 3:27 PM

Obama has a prostrate problem?? OH NO!

robblefarian on May 12, 2008 at 3:34 PM

Would Muslims regard Obama as an apostate?

No! He hates America sufficiently to garner protection from Al Qaeda.

TheSitRep on May 12, 2008 at 3:34 PM

This is just an Op/Ed from a CSIS fellow. Until the “Barack was a Muslim” story appears in the News section of the Times you can be sure the editors are trying to cover their asses. They don’t have any problem letting a CSIS fellow try and make the case for them.

Anyone seen Barack Obama’s birth certificate? Still looking for a copy over here. Does he even have the birthrights to be prez? What does the Clinton Camp know?

gabriel sutherland on May 12, 2008 at 3:39 PM

Frankly, I don’t care what savages think about the President’s religious beliefs.

If the question is, should we consider these fanatic’s point of view when voting for someone, then not just no, but hell no. There is plenty to disqualify Obama as a candidate…this issue isn’t one of them.

Asher on May 12, 2008 at 3:41 PM

doesnt the hamas endorsement pretty much signal what hell be accepted as ? or how.

palefaced on May 12, 2008 at 3:42 PM

Obama has a prostrate problem?? OH NO!

robblefarian on May 12, 2008 at 3:34 PM

I sure hope not. Treatment for that is, well, radioactive.

RushBaby on May 12, 2008 at 3:42 PM

If there were no Obama, Hillary might get, say, 70% of the black vote in the primaries, but would get 90+ in the GE. 2004? Kerry got 88% in the GE. Not much higher to go.

Leftists have done their work well.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 1:00 PM

It takes two to tango. Leftist pols say the right things to stupid people. I know of what I speak. Plenty in my family.

JiangxiDad on May 12, 2008 at 3:44 PM

The world doesn’t need Obama to force the issue of changing religions.

That discussion is already happening in light of the shari’a court decision in Malaysia. Once the door is opened, it’s tough to close it again.

Of course, the top is already spinning with headline “fights” over who takes the credit and for what. Is it the magnanimous shari’a court who gave permission or was the woman allowed to return to Buddhism because she “never really practiced Islam to begin with?” In all fairness, I have seen some Malay articles condemning the court decision, saying that the woman should have been put to death.

But, as I said the wedge is already in the door. There is too much about Obama that would be dangerous for this country and for the world to push that as much of a positive for Obama.

The NYT article sounds like something the Clinton campaign put out. As Robert said, it is good to see them recognize Islamic law for a change,instead of pretending it doesn’t exist. But it probably will be ignored by the general public.

Connie on May 12, 2008 at 3:45 PM

Wasn’t Wright a Muslim at one point?

Hening on May 12, 2008 at 3:15 PM

Yep. And Obama marched with Farrakhan.

amerpundit on May 12, 2008 at 3:18 PM

Isn’t that fascinating since his being a Christian not only fits the Muslim agenda, but all his church zombies are a pinky push away from foot baths and cheering Islamic terrorism as the works of Allah.

Hening on May 12, 2008 at 4:14 PM

……and paradise is a 10,000 square foot home, on a golf course, living next door to Whitey.

Hening on May 12, 2008 at 4:15 PM

It takes two to tango. Leftist pols say the right things to stupid people. I know of what I speak. Plenty in my family.

JiangxiDad on May 12, 2008 at 3:44 PM

We’re seeing the long term results of what Leftists have wrought in the social and educational areas. Black people having been more vulnerable to sixties reforms (less able to escape the degradation of public education, for example) are more likely to buy the BS.

Example: a federal government that oppressed blacks, then “gave” us rights, then ignored it when local government takes over the oppression, then overrules local government, then hands out bennies which destroy our families requires….what?

Less government and more suspicion of those who want more of such capriciousness. Or so one who hadn’t been…ahem….bamboozled would think.

When you’re not taught how to think, you’re less able to think things through. Also pride plays a big part here, and not the good kind.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 4:22 PM

MamaAJ on May 12, 2008 at 3:26 PM

I’m confused too. Hasn’t the Obama campaign been telling us all along that Obama was never a Muslim? Now he’s a convert who may be viewed as an apostate? How can that be if he was never a Muslim to begin with? Is this like their “we never said he’d negotiate with Iran without preconditions” when he said exactly that in the debate, and even had it on his website?

AZCoyote on May 12, 2008 at 4:33 PM

Because you can’t tell me that Islamists wouldn’t love to off the Crusader GWB. It seems to me that may have been the purpose of Flight 93.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 11:31 AM

You do realize that we were not “crusading” on Sept 11, 2001, right?

pecan pie on May 12, 2008 at 5:47 PM

AZCoyote on May 12, 2008 at 4:33 PM

Muslims can define you as a former-Muslim against your will, simply because your parents were Muslim. Christians would more easily recognize that although you may have been raised by Christian parents you did not accept that faith for yourself as you became an adult. Therefore you were never actually Christian, just “raised Christian”.

I have no problem with Obama stating that we was never a Muslim. But then I come from a Christian POV on it.

But I agree with others that neither do I see the Christianity in the church he attends.

pecan pie on May 12, 2008 at 5:57 PM

You do realize that we were not “crusading” on Sept 11, 2001, right?

pecan pie on May 12, 2008 at 5:47 PM

You do realize that there are two separate tenses used in my comment, right?

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 6:38 PM

And Osama bin Laden says that we were “crudaing” at that time.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 6:39 PM

Crusading!

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 6:39 PM

I don’t care if Obama were the Pope, I can’t stand him (a tyro flyweight fraud) or his politics (neo-Marxism for Dummies) and want him kept as far away from the seat of power as possible.

His religious complications only make him that much more troublesome and in need of a quick return to empty-suited obscurity.

profitsbeard on May 12, 2008 at 7:33 PM

Muslims support him in droves and don’t consider him an apostate….it means he is still a practicing muslim wake up people.

SaintOlaf on May 12, 2008 at 8:37 PM

When you’re not taught how to think, you’re less able to think things through. Also pride plays a big part here, and not the good kind.

baldilocks on May 12, 2008 at 4:22 PM

So true.

TheCulturalist on May 12, 2008 at 8:43 PM

The real question lurking in the back of many minds is not whether Obambi is an apostate, but whether he is a Manchurian candidate, a secret or programmed Muslim, who will open the door to the New Caliphate.

My guess is that he is to naive to be a fifth columnist. He is really Jimmy Carter in blackface. And that is almost as dangerous.

MrLynn on May 12, 2008 at 9:51 PM

That’s “too naive.”

I wish we could edit our HA posts, for at least a few minutes.

MrLynn on May 12, 2008 at 9:52 PM

The question I keep asking whenever this comes up: how would this put Obama in any more danger than any other president? Because you can’t tell me that Islamists wouldn’t love to off the Crusader GWB.

Baldilocks,

I’m on the same page with your thoughts about who’s is danger: GWB vs Obama—

Another important question: WHY would the NYTs publish anything that would not help Obama get elected?.

This is a pre-emptive strike to get the muslim issue out in the open before the conventions; but then to sanitized it with the public. If the NYT’s can make it appear that Obama’s upbringing doesn’t make him sympathetic or part of Islam; and instead puts him in danger from groups like HAMAS– who just endorsed him– then Americans could be persuaded to think of Obama as– not connected to Islam, but rather in danger from it.

It’s all part of the media smokescreen to divert attention away from the HAMAS endorsement and to put their twist on Obama’s religous upbringing before the fall election season.

rags

Ragnell on May 12, 2008 at 11:17 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve found the 10% of Americans who believe Senator Obama is a Muslim; they’re all in this thread.

Nonfactor on May 13, 2008 at 12:20 AM

Nonfactor on May 13, 2008 at 12:20 AM

Do you ever have anything useful to contribute to a conversation?

baldilocks on May 13, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Do you ever have anything useful to contribute to a conversation?

baldilocks on May 13, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Potatoe.

Nonfactor on May 13, 2008 at 2:30 PM