Good news, Chaosters: Hillary won’t quit
posted at 12:50 pm on May 9, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The Hill reports on, well, The Hill this morning after attending a media breakfast this morning that had Hillary Clinton’s campaign advisers conceding nothing to Barack Obama. They have drawn a line in the sand at 2209 delegates, including Florida and Michigan, and insist Hillary will not withdraw until Obama has that many in his corner. If that means going all the way to the convention and a credentials fight, so be it:
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-N.Y.) senior advisers said Friday they are willing to push the nomination fight beyond the last contests on June 3 if neither candidate reaches the delegate requirement that includes Michigan and Florida.
While most analysts have determined that Clinton’s chances are all but nil, Geoff Garin and Howard Wolfson, two of Clinton’s senior advisers, told a group of reporters over breakfast that if frontrunner Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) does not reach 2,209 delegates by June 3, the campaign will continue. …
Garin acknowledged from the beginning that the campaign is “not oblivious to the environment in which we’re operating,” but he and Wolfson made it clear that Clinton has no intention of getting out of the race until the issue of how to treat delegates from Florida and Michigan is resolved.
“It is ridiculous to think that Florida and Michigan will not be resolved,” Garin said. “They’re going to be.”
Wolfson acknowledged after the breakfast that the campaign will have to push the “moral argument” that 100 percent of Florida’s and Michigan’s delegates must be seated for there to be a nominee.
Democrats have operated under the calculus that excludes Florida and Michigan, which puts the delegate threshold for victory at 2,025. Neither Hillary nor Obama can make it to that number before the convention anyway, but the farther threshold makes the race look much less settled. According to CNN at the moment, Hillary has a 160-delegate gap, which only accounts for less than 2% difference in the total delegates committed now. If she can push the other 400 delegates into the mix, she has a better shot at keeping Obama from winning on the first ballot.
This, of course, is a long shot at best. It does show that Hillary has no inclination to accept Obama’s peace offerings, which include tens of millions of dollars in debt relief. As long as she can play the theme of “counting every vote”, she can at least give herself the political cover of a crusader campaign that leads all the way to the convention.
If Obama really wanted to end it now, he could just agree to seat the delegates of Florida and Michigan in their current electoral split, with Obama taking the “uncommitted” delegates from Michigan. He would still lead in the delegate count, and it would deprive Hillary of her last fig leaf for remaining in the race. Without it, the naked ambition would be too obvious. Until then, we get to watch the Democrats spend their money and time infighting, which is exactly what Rush Limbaugh wanted from Operation Chaos.
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Watching Fox yesterday, they said they have a “well-placed source” saying she’s bringing it to the convention.
amerpundit on May 9, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Good point. What’s the math if you include florida and michigan? It’s not really much of a net change is it? If it isn’t, what’s the point of fighting it?
lorien1973 on May 9, 2008 at 12:54 PM
March onward Hillary! You are woman, you can do it! You go girl!
Maxx on May 9, 2008 at 12:55 PM
If only the RNC could get their act together and not let the paul-tards, act like, well, paul-tards. Then the R convention would look a ton better in comparison.
lorien1973 on May 9, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Geez, for a minute there I thought how did you guys get a picture of my Mother in law.
AMartinez on May 9, 2008 at 12:56 PM
cackle…cackle…CAcKle..CACKLE..CACKLE, CACKLE CACKLE!!!!
kcd on May 9, 2008 at 12:59 PM
If the old boys club of the democrats gives this to the brand new guy the women in the country are going to be rally pissed off. They have seen this happen too many times in their professional life and will take it quite personally. Even the VP slot will generate a lot of animosity among women.
jukin on May 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM
Long Live Operation Chaos
Kini on May 9, 2008 at 1:01 PM
How can you give Obama ALL of the “Uncommitted” delegates?
Two people withdrew their names from the ballot..
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Hoooo boy that DNC convention could be a serious riot, literally.
Here’s hoping it ends up looking like one of those South Korean political events where people start swarming over their opponents with the fists of fury.
Bishop on May 9, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Two people withdrew their names from the Michigan ballot willfully.
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:03 PM
You go girl! Chaos RULES! :D
ihasurnominashun on May 9, 2008 at 1:03 PM
For sake of argument, give those to Obama. Why would Edwards need them?
lorien1973 on May 9, 2008 at 1:04 PM
excellent. Now we just have to hope Hillary stays negative with regards to Obama.
phronesis on May 9, 2008 at 1:05 PM
Go ahead Hil. Fight to change the rules. Then, while your at it why don’t you just announce to the country that we should go back to the old old rules when a black vote was only worth 1/3 that of a white vote. A fight to change either will bear the same result… Blissful chaos. I dare ya.
Zetterson on May 9, 2008 at 1:05 PM
The Clinton’s have always played smash mouth politics and they may very well be miscalculating. The fallout from Obama’s eventual loss does not mean she is either the heir apparent in 4 years or that she escapes damage.
moxie_neanderthal on May 9, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Edwards
Obama and
Biden
We NOT on the Michigan Ballot..
WHY Would Obama get ALL of the “Uncommitted”
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Meh. They’re always pissed off about something anyway.
ronsfi on May 9, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Limbaugh may just unseat Rove from his Magnificent Bastard throne.
Gentlemen, to evil.
BohicaTwentyTwo on May 9, 2008 at 1:07 PM
People keep trying to apply standard rules to the Clintons…and that’s why they fail.
This isn’t your average politician…this is Queen Hillary! She’ll quit when she’s dead.
Actually dead…not politically dead. It’s obvious they don’t care about their reputation, or money or friends. What they care about is power. That’s it.
Quitting does not get her power. Not quitting *might*.
Asher on May 9, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Michigan
Clinton 328,151 55%
Uncommitted(Edwards, Obama, Biden) 237,762 40%
Kucinich 21,708 4%
Dodd 3,853 1%
Gravel 2,363 0%
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:08 PM
(Even if Biden and Edwards now back Obama, you can not justify that by giving all the “Uncommitted” delegates to Obama… those people could still be “Uncommitted”)
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM
The point is, that if the democrats -did- align the delegates that way. Hillary wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. Giving the “uncommitted” ones to obama ends the discussion - no matter if they are all obama supporters or not.
It’s silly to argue that they are “uncommitted” anyways - given that they voted in a primary to pick obama/hillary/etal. Why vote if you have no opinion? Uncommitted was a protest vote against hillary.
lorien1973 on May 9, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Obama either gets 0 delegates from Michigan or 1/3 of the “Uncommitted”
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Daniel Henninger said it best- Hillary is now the crawling robotic arm chasing Sarah Conner through the machinery plant.
Chuck Schick on May 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM
It looks like the Hillary ‘12 campaign has begun. I’m guessing she’s setting up a huge “I told you so and did everything I possibly could to prevent it” argument for McCain’s defeat of Obama.
The Clinton camp must be pretty sure McCain’s going to win for them to do this.
Gilda on May 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM
It may be the way out of this quagmire of Carl Levin’s making but how is it fair for Obama to snatch up the “uncommitted” delegates? Not all those votes were protest votes against Hillary. This particular scheme may allow Michigan to seat delegates but it is far from representative democracy to broker a deal that ignores the will of the voters. In other words, typical day at the DNC.
highhopes on May 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Krauthammer nailed it (pun intended) when he said last night on Brit Hume that Hillary would stop when someone puts a stake through her heart, and not before.
Cicero43 on May 9, 2008 at 1:14 PM
But who in favor of? Edwards?
Maybe those people WOULD NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA!
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:15 PM
It’s an unknown quantity. You don’t know how many wouldn’t vote for him. They were uncommitted against hillary anyways. Makes sense to give them to her opponent, doesn’t it?
lorien1973 on May 9, 2008 at 1:16 PM
That guy cracks me ^ ! >:D
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:17 PM
That picture gives me the willies.
baldilocks on May 9, 2008 at 1:19 PM
not really.. just because they didn’t for X(hillary) doesn’t necessarily mean that they will vote for Y(Obama) when they intended to vote for Z(Edwards) or Q(Biden)
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Oh Richardson wasn’t on the Michigan ballot either..
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:21 PM
If the Democrat Party wants to grant Michigan and Florida their rightful seats, then ALL Democrat candidates should receive apportioned delegate votes. Then true chaos will reign.
Oh, bohicatwentytwo, I didn’t know Karl Rove is a former Marine. The ‘Magnificent Bastards’, in reality the 2nd Battalion 4th Marines, defeated two (2) NVA divisions at Dai Do in Vietnam. Two Marines received the Medal of Honor in that battle. If Karl deserves a nickname, he couldn’t do any better.
SeniorD on May 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Michigan
Clinton 328,151 55%
Uncommitted(Edwards, Obama, Biden, Richardson) 237,762 40%
Kucinich 21,708 4%
Dodd 3,853 1%
Gravel 2,363 0%
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
I think one of the reasons she’s staying in is so she’s the obvious fallback if Obama flames out (or can be taken out). Given what we already know about him it’s not really a question of if so much as when.
Hopefully it’ll happen before the election.
KCSteve on May 9, 2008 at 1:23 PM
You have it right. There may be any number of other reasons for her to stay in, but that’s the big one.
Buford Gooch on May 9, 2008 at 1:28 PM
And, along the same lines, who’s the obvious fallback if something happens to McCain?
Buford Gooch on May 9, 2008 at 1:29 PM
She has no reason to quit, yet. None. It strikes me as highly interesting that Howard Dean has been very quiet since Tuesday, that Nancy Pelosi, having made some noises, has retreated to “let’s give every voter a chance”, Harry Reid having shut up ahead of Tuesday. Just internalize this for now.
The picture in this article is not objective. It should be a solid/thick wall, with a locmotive approaching, with Obama as the engineer/driver, and Hillary wrestling to take his seat over. I’m not artistic, though I love art. Those of you who’re good at it, do it! That would reflect to perfectin what’s going on in the Democratic party right now.
Also, the “demsel in distress” is Peggy Noonan, more so than Hillary. Also, Ann Coulter is celebrating too soon, right as she is.
Entelechy on May 9, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Mike Huckabee 275 Delegates
Mitt Romney 255 Delegates
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Chakra, be careful. You might wake up Red Pill.
Entelechy on May 9, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Is that a Huck supporter?
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Chakra, that w/b the understatement of the century.
Entelechy on May 9, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Chakra and Entelechy,
Sorry, I just couldn’t resist.
Buford Gooch on May 9, 2008 at 1:39 PM
You and Daniel Henniger owe me a new keyboard.
Mike Honcho on May 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM
WOW! This summer is going to be fun!!
ConservativePartyNow on May 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM
No, no, no. You cannot assume those votes were for Obama.
I would be beyond pissed off if someody took my vote for Mickey Mouse and gave it to Donald Duck.
EJDolbow on May 9, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Obama at MOST could probably get 1/3 of the uncommitted delegates in Michigan.. Edwards was a big player at the time and Richardson and Biden make up about one Candidate.. Obama at the time really wasn’t a large candidate.. with huge draw..(However given the benefit of the doubt give him 1/3, it could be argued that he should get NONE)
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:53 PM
hard to see how they can just dish out delegate like this, how do you know the intent of the voter?
4 people were not on the Ballot(And maybe some of the “uncommitted” maybe have been casting ballots for someone that wasn’t even running at all.. “Al Gore”
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 1:56 PM
If she is not going to accept VP then seating Florida and Michigan might be an attempt to keep as much of the party together for November as possible. It would put a dent into the sore-loser crowd.
Too many scenarios for this Texas porch sitter. Thank goodness they haven’t banned drinking beer on the porch (yet).
Limerick on May 9, 2008 at 1:58 PM
.
Legally speaking (which makes sense, since I anticipate a lawsuit) Herself’s lawyers will argue that Bambi should get no delegates from Michigan…..
Think_b4_speaking on May 9, 2008 at 1:59 PM
Although I have discounted it in the past I’m wondering now if Johnny Mac and Hillary comprise the gang of 2.
Limerick on May 9, 2008 at 2:02 PM
There’s no satisfactory way to resolve the Florida/Michigan quandary without a revote — the candidates that “stayed off the ballot” in those states generally acted to remove themselves at the request of the DNC. Obama remained on the ballot in Florida, I think, only because he couldn’t legally remove himself (time constraint?).
Did Hillary do anything to play by the rules at any stage in this process? How on earth do people think she’s going to govern?
DrSteve on May 9, 2008 at 2:06 PM
I don’t think that should get any…
no votes we casted in his name how can you tell how many voted for him, and how many would have voted for Richardson, Edwards, Biden?
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 2:08 PM
I heard Fox Sports Radio today say that Hillary is doing the political version of calling timeouts and fouling late in the 4th quarter.
fossten on May 9, 2008 at 2:09 PM
She’s like the guy in “An Officer and A Gentleman” that has nowhere else to go.
New York is sure getting their money’s worth out of her as a Senator. I remember around election time her claiming that she wasn’t running for president. Lie much?
Hening on May 9, 2008 at 2:09 PM
sorry for my PO engrish.. >:{
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 2:11 PM
Hillary won’t quit until they pry her broom from her cold dead hands.
MB4 on May 9, 2008 at 2:15 PM
I’m a little confused…again. When you remove your name from the ballot, you aren’t running in that election. At all. Your name isn’t associated with any of the ‘uncommitted’ votes unless the voter actually wrote in your name. Anyone removing their name from Michigan’s ballot without getting a firm commitment from ALL the other Democrat candidates to do the same was just asking for this to happen.
Plus, if you’re going to get into the would’ve-beens, Obama would’ve spent a few million campaign dollars and a few empty, swoonful speeches if he had been running in Michigan…why should he get any votes for absolutely no effort?
James on May 9, 2008 at 2:19 PM
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/klein/article/0,9565,1198859,00.html
Obama basically the same stuff..
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 2:22 PM
Exactly right James.
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM
Except I also think that in the end, nobody should get any delegates, since they shouldn’t have moved up the primary in the first place.
James on May 9, 2008 at 2:33 PM
“I’ll get you, my pretty, and your little dog too.”
Cue the flying monkeys.
saved on May 9, 2008 at 2:38 PM
they had elections… don’t you have to count all the votes?
(They could penalize the delegates similarly to what the Republicans did 1/2 the delegates… )
Michigan
————–
Clinton 1/2 of 55% of the delegates.. Obama NO delegates
Then for Florida, do it the same way 1/2 the delegates.
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 2:39 PM
Tribal Politics, as idealized and pushed by the West’s Left, in this case the Democratic Party. Will race trump gender? Which of the two Democratic poseurs can sell the biggest BS story of victimhood and “progressiveness”?
.
Limbaugh’s right-let the Democrat civil war continue, let it get as nasty as possible. The more the deadly virus of the Democratic Party leaches on itself, the better the chances for John McCain and the better for America.
DavePa on May 9, 2008 at 2:42 PM
.
I agree with you totally. I’m just looking forward to the lawsuit (and the back of the limo story to break). Stocking up on popcorn….
Think_b4_speaking on May 9, 2008 at 2:44 PM
But that’s exactly what the Republicans said ahead of time would be the punishment…NO delegates is exactly what the Democrats said ahead of time would be the punishment.
James on May 9, 2008 at 2:44 PM
It’s all over for both Hillary and St. Mc.
J_Gocht on May 9, 2008 at 3:03 PM
Then don’t hold the election..
Once you hold an election you must seat delegates..
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Ras take it for whatever its worth..(not much)
Chakra Hammer on May 9, 2008 at 3:05 PM
Wow. That’s some impressing goal post moving by the Clintonistas. The Democrats have taken that to a high art in recent years.
The_Real_JeffS on May 9, 2008 at 3:10 PM
Oh, it’s over? Well, then, why bother holding the election SIX MONTHS FROM NOW???
[Rolls eyes]
fossten on May 9, 2008 at 3:11 PM
Obama’s ahead and within the margin of error 6 months out and it’s over? How much do you know about elections? Is the answer “nothing”?
Chuck Schick on May 9, 2008 at 3:22 PM
That picture reminds me of the description of waking up next to someone and chewing your arm off at the shoulder rather than moving it and waking her up.
Hening on May 9, 2008 at 3:26 PM
It’s going to be a long hot summer.
kirkill on May 9, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Hilarious thread. Friday afternoon, this thread, beer, what more could a man ask for?
As Americans we have a hard enough time trying to figure out America. Can you imagine what the bad guys think? No wonder they poke and prod us.
Limerick on May 9, 2008 at 3:40 PM
I thought you folks ,”lived and died” by Rasmussen!
J_Gocht on May 9, 2008 at 4:35 PM
I can’t believe I’ve grown to love her.
Little Boomer on May 9, 2008 at 5:23 PM
YAAAAY !!!
You go gurl !!
And, make sure you mention, you can carry the “white vote”
again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.
We don’t want those Supers to be under any illusions.
or, delusions, as the case may be
franksalterego on May 9, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Oh…And Hilary, my dear,
Don’t pay any attention to Matthews, or Olbermann, or Carlson, or Scarborough, while they’re on their knees, stroking Obamas privates.
They’re sorta’ gay anyway.
franksalterego on May 9, 2008 at 5:33 PM
Doesn’t Hillary control the Rules Committee at the convention?
And there’s no telling how many Operation Chaos operatives will be delegates at the convention.
And read that Jay Cost post.
I’m not saying she’ll win, I’m saying she has plenty of reasons to stay in and hope. And keep exposing the collection of special interest groups that is the Democrat party.
misterpeasea on May 9, 2008 at 5:45 PM
All she is doing to not just discrediting herself, she is making a national embarrassment of herself by refusing to give in to what everyone else on the planet knows to be reality. She keeps this up, she is going to wind up getting voted out of office the next time she is up for re-election as the JUNIOR Senator of New York.
pilamaye on May 9, 2008 at 7:20 PM
Go Hillary Go!!!
Mojave Mark on May 9, 2008 at 7:51 PM
What are you on?
Chuck Schick on May 9, 2008 at 8:14 PM
Please, Medusa, keep hissing those snake-heads at your detractors. Give them your best glare! Turn them into stone! Petrify them!
I haven’t had so much political fun since The Hanging Chad Opera.
OldEnglish on May 10, 2008 at 1:55 AM
Oh yeah, this is the next phase. It’s happened in every presidential election I can remember. The pollsters proclaim loudly that the Democratic candidate is far out in front. We will be entreated by a barrage of these polls over the coming months. They mean absolutely nothing.
Maxx on May 10, 2008 at 3:36 PM