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Quote of the day

posted at 10:40 pm on May 8, 2008 by Allahpundit
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“I would want to encourage people of faith to regard those without faith with deep esteem because the hidden God is active in their lives as well as in the lives of those who believe.”


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Is this a cry for help AP?

TBinSTL on May 8, 2008 at 10:42 PM

Is this in response to Mr. Red Pill?

Darnell Clayton on May 8, 2008 at 10:43 PM

“If Christianity gave European thought the impression that God can be conceptually determined and pinned down and proved as a hypothesis, then it is hardly surprising that there has been resistance, as science and culture have developed, to worshipping this idea of God.”

Well…there ya go!

SouthernGent on May 8, 2008 at 10:45 PM

Nothing wrong with that statement as far as I can see. I believe we all are God’s children. I love ALL of you guys!!

OK, I’ve got a hold of myself now.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 10:45 PM

Great quote I agree with.

James OK on May 8, 2008 at 10:47 PM

the hidden God is active in their lives as well as in the lives of those who believe.”

So God is not hidden to those who believe? Cool! What does he/she/it look like?

MB4 on May 8, 2008 at 10:51 PM

the hidden God is active in their lives as well as in the lives of those who believe.”
So God is not hidden to those who believe? Cool! What does he/she/it look like?

MB4 on May 8, 2008 at 10:51 PM

I don’t see such a distinction drawn in that quote.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 10:53 PM

MB4 on May 8, 2008 at 10:51 PM

You baby, you.

TBinSTL on May 8, 2008 at 10:53 PM

Is this a cry for help AP?

TBinSTL on May 8, 2008 at 10:42 PM

If AP cries for help and no god answers him, is there still a god?

MB4 on May 8, 2008 at 10:56 PM

I don’t see such a distinction drawn in that quote.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 10:53 PM

So no one else can see or hear God or either. That’s a relief. I thought that maybe I was going blind and deaf.

MB4 on May 8, 2008 at 10:58 PM

This seems to me to be a sound statement from someone of that faith.
.
Check that term “neighbor” closely, AP–sometimes it’s significant. This neighbor thing is a big deal in discussions in many faiths. You’re supposed to treat your neighbor right–but who your neighbor *is* changes the rules of the game. For example, the Jewish faith has sects with differing ideas on who a neighbor is, and Arabic has different words for a member of your tribe (qarib) versus some dude you live near (ijar). This has implications in Islam and that word difference might be significant in that “interfaith dialogue” the Catholics and that group of imams are sort of having through letters sent to each other. Christianity makes a big deal about neighbors, particularly IIRC the Sermon on the Mount.

Chap on May 8, 2008 at 10:59 PM

So no one else can see or hear God or either. That’s a relief. I thought that maybe I was going blind and deaf.

MB4 on May 8, 2008 at 10:58 PM

You gotta tune in, man. It’s like finding a radio station amid the static. My experience, for what it’s worth.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 10:59 PM

If this guy’s effort is to remove distinction between believers and non, then he is in the wrong business. Of course we are to love one another, but that doesn’t mean surrender everything we value to the lowest common denominator.

leftnomore on May 8, 2008 at 11:01 PM

mikeyboss, what’s the frequencey?

MB4, for you there’s no hope :)

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM

I’ve loved you all along, AP.

“Esteem him? Like him? Use those insipid words again and I shall leave the room this instant …”

Anwyn on May 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM

If anyone thinks humans thought up this election season yer nuts!

Limerick on May 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM

Shhh. Don’t wake the Trolls!

ronsfi on May 8, 2008 at 11:03 PM

leftnomore, how do you know what that denominator is?

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:04 PM

Hidden God?

Like, dude, with religionists like this why aren’t we all atheist?

thuja on May 8, 2008 at 11:05 PM

ronsfi, why not? It’s more fun that way.

Limerick, give credit where it’s due, and leave the gods out of this. This is a spectacle of grand proportion, completely fabricated by the lefties. They deserve it. Ours is completely made by us, and we deserve it too.

But, I do love you Lim :)

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:05 PM

mikeyboss, what’s the frequencey?

Twice a day, minimum :)

Can’t say as I have a particular number on the dial, but if I try, I always find it.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 11:05 PM

Limerick on May 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM

Only nuts could have thought it up.

ronsfi on May 8, 2008 at 11:06 PM

You gotta tune in, man. It’s like finding a radio station amid the static. My experience, for what it’s worth.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 10:59 PM

Maybe if I put an antenna on my radio.

mikeyboss, what’s the frequencey?

MB4, for you there’s no hope :)

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM

Maybe Dan knows the frequency. Next time I see him I will ask. No hope for me? Even if Obamawan Barakobi becomes Prez?

MB4 on May 8, 2008 at 11:09 PM

Maybe Dan knows the frequency.

Dan didn’t know it; he had to ask Kenneth.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 11:10 PM

You gotta tune in, man. It’s like finding a radio station amid the static. My experience, for what it’s worth.

Too true. I hear Him all the time, often with force 5 two-by-four power.

Bob's Kid on May 8, 2008 at 11:14 PM

With the few quotes given, there is little I have a problem with. Even the notion of a “hidden God” at work, if not reduced to mere pantheism, which I doubt he is communicating, is not too strained a concept to describe God. If an some one does not look at Holy Writ as God’s revelation, and if He is, by presuppositions, to be excluded from observations of nature, then what else can He be to that person other than “hidden.” Also, on somewhat of a tangential note, G.K. Chesterton wrote a wonderful biography on St. Francis of Assisi, in which he described the recapturing of the “mystical” element of Christianity. I highly recommend it.

Weight of Glory on May 8, 2008 at 11:17 PM

So God is not hidden to those who believe? Cool! What does he/she/it look like?

MB4 on May 8, 2008 at 10:51 PM

Seeing does not always mean with you eyes.

EJDolbow on May 8, 2008 at 11:18 PM

Weight of Glory on May 8, 2008 at 11:17 PM

Thanks for the tip. I just checked my library’s website, and it’s available. I will pick it up tomorrow.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 11:20 PM

This is one of the more civilized religion/atheist threads, at least so far.

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:22 PM

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:22 PM

Now you’ve done it.

Weight of Glory on May 8, 2008 at 11:25 PM

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 11:20 PM

Fantastic! Enjoy!

Weight of Glory on May 8, 2008 at 11:26 PM

This is one of the more civilized religion/atheist threads, at least so far.

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:22 PM

I hope for civilized discourse always. Let’s just hope it continues.

thuja on May 8, 2008 at 11:26 PM

I hope for civilized discourse always. Let’s just hope it continues.

thuja on May 8, 2008 at 11:26 PM

You, sir, are an ambisexual walnut. ;)

(That’s one of my fave Bloom County quotes.)

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 11:30 PM

Right. Treat people the same as you would want to be treated.
Nothing wrong with that.

Travis1 on May 8, 2008 at 11:32 PM

Well atheists are people to,AllahPundit no disrespect,
I fear the ban hammer,Haha!

Lets all be happy that atheists don’t go around chopping
heads off because they don’t believe!

Out of curiousity,do Atheists get a free ride from
Islamofaschists,or do they get their heads lobbed off
twice? Ha ha.

canopfor on May 8, 2008 at 11:33 PM

canopfor on May 8, 2008 at 11:33 PM

Two heads are better than one. We’re fighting to keep our heads attached.

Travis1 on May 8, 2008 at 11:39 PM

Two heads….
Travis 1 on May 8,2008 at 11:39PM.

travis 1: To quote AllahPundit “No Shite”!HaHa.

canopfor on May 8, 2008 at 11:41 PM

AP is testing the waters here with a completely uncontroversial religion thread to see if we will behave ourselves.

pedestrian on May 8, 2008 at 11:43 PM

Right. Treat people the same as you would want to be treated.
Nothing wrong with that.

Travis1 on May 8, 2008 at 11:32 PM

they don’t call it the Golden Rule for nothing

windansea on May 8, 2008 at 11:50 PM

is that a double negative?

windansea on May 8, 2008 at 11:50 PM

is that a double negative?

windansea on May 8, 2008 at 11:50 PM

I don’t think so, but even if it is, you are held in deep esteem.

mikeyboss on May 8, 2008 at 11:52 PM

I like this quote. It’s good to be reminded, when I get angry over political issues, that there is a greater purpose that is best served by loving others. Leave it to an atheist to shame me into remembering.
*Group hug*

joewm315 on May 8, 2008 at 11:53 PM

G.K. Chesterton wrote a wonderful biography on St. Francis of Assisi, in which he described the recapturing of the “mystical” element of Christianity. I highly recommend it.

Weight of Glory on May 8, 2008 at 11:17 PM

One of the best books Chesterson wrote and one of my favorite books of all time.

exlibris on May 8, 2008 at 11:54 PM

pedestrian on May 8, 2008 at 11:43 PM

I don’t think that’s necessarily true, although you couldn’t blame him if it was. AP hasn’t found any reason to believe. Maybe someday he will. Maybe not. But he thinks about it, which is more than can be said for those who don’t bother.

Connie on May 8, 2008 at 11:55 PM

A believer should treat a nonbeliever with the same respect that an NBC employee renders to Barack Obama. But I think it’s still OK to tease them which it would be wrong to render unto Obama.

snaggletoothie on May 9, 2008 at 12:08 AM

We love you and respect you Allah…now get to the back of the line you heathen.

right2bright on May 9, 2008 at 12:13 AM

This is one of the more civilized religion/atheist threads, at least so far.

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:22 PM

We can’t have that. (Content Warning)

F15Mech on May 9, 2008 at 12:13 AM

It’s good to see there is clergy in England that still believes in God.

gmbdds on May 9, 2008 at 12:16 AM

they don’t call it the Golden Rule for nothing

windansea on May 8, 2008 at 11:50 PM

I thought the “golden rule” is that those who have the gold, rule :)

F15Mech, thanks for the warning, the link, and an idea for next X-mas, at least for a few on the card list :)

p.s. too bad AP went to bed already. That’s the problem with the Q o D threads, and with this round earth.

Entelechy on May 9, 2008 at 12:19 AM

Right. Do you remember “Little Golden Books?”

Travis1 on May 9, 2008 at 12:21 AM

they don’t call it the Golden Rule for nothing

windansea on May 8, 2008 at 11:50 PM

Sorry. Forgot to paste who you are and what you said.

Right. Do you remember “Little Golden Books?”

Travis1 on May 9, 2008 at 12:24 AM

I thought the “golden rule” is that those who have the gold, rule :)

Entelechy on May 9, 2008 at 12:19 AM

That has been my experience. Guns are good too though.

Tuco on May 9, 2008 at 12:28 AM

I hope for civilized discourse always. Let’s just hope it continues.

thuja on May 8, 2008 at 11:26 PM

May all you Gawdless heathens be cast into the the fiery furnace of Hell, where your soul will burn in anguish for all eternity and demons pluck out your eyes…

What? That wasn’t civil?

(yes, I’m joking for the comically disabled)

doubleplusundead on May 9, 2008 at 12:30 AM

doubleplusundead, you’re such a good bad candy :)

Entelechy on May 9, 2008 at 12:36 AM

This is one of the more civil religion/atheist threads

It’s the Obama/Change/Hope thing, now that he’s clinched the nomination.

jgapinoy on May 9, 2008 at 12:39 AM

doubleplusundead, you’re such a good bad candy :)

Entelechy on May 9, 2008 at 12:36 AM

Nice. doubleplusundead is indeed a good Bad Candy. :)

F15Mech on May 9, 2008 at 12:44 AM

God does not believe in atheists… therefore they don’t exist. :)

Texas Rainmaker on May 9, 2008 at 12:47 AM

“Every morning when I wake up I read the Bible and the newspaper…because I want to know what both sides are up to”

- – Texas Rainmaker

Entelechy on May 9, 2008 at 12:52 AM

THE leader of England’s Catholics has urged the faithful to treat atheists and agnostics with `deep esteem’.

Whadda ya know, a Christian. Might just work.
Christianity flourished at a time when multiple pagan religions dominated and Christians probably weren’t nearly so technically proficient in Bible science.
Maybe paying attention to the basics is better.

Speakup on May 9, 2008 at 1:07 AM

If anyone thinks humans thought up this election season yer nuts!

Limerick on May 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM

Limerick, give credit where it’s due, and leave the gods out of this.

Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:05 PM

Who says Lim was talking about God? ;-)

baldilocks on May 9, 2008 at 1:22 AM

Viktor Frankl called it “The Unconscious God”.

Hidden from even Itself.

And requiring a second mind to reflect it.

profitsbeard on May 9, 2008 at 1:22 AM

On the personal level

“Believers need to recognise that they have something in common with those who do not believe. But it is no less true that unbelievers might benefit from recognising that there is something of the believer in every person.

Believers and non-believers need to recognise and understand each other better, more accurately, more appreciatively.”

On the public level

He warned against a `privatisation of religion’ and said that public life could not be a `God-free zone’.

We cover each other’s back in battle for our mutual survival against Islamofascism and Communism. It never hurts to have all the help you can get when times are dire.

maverick muse on May 9, 2008 at 1:27 AM

Hammas spokesman Ahmed Yousef said in a recent interview: “We like Obama and hope that he will win the election.”

Obama responded, “This is offensive, and I think it’s disappointing,” “And then to engage in that kind of smear, I think, is unfortunate, particularly since my policy toward Hamas,” “For him to toss out comments like that, I think, is an example of him losing his bearings as he pursues this nomination. We don’t need name-calling in this debate.”

That’s right, above all, don’t call someone by name! No name-calling! To toss out the olive branch like that is a smear tactic, plain and simple.
/

I know, I know. Inversion of characters in the play, all in good humor, playing Obama’s game on him. In reality, Obama is a big cry baby and can’t debate even when his life depends on it. Wah, wah, wah from the DNC kitchen. Give him a dose of Chef Ramsey. Obama commits his tried and true campaign recipe once again, depricating his opponent with the accusation of being what Obama is himself, FOUL.

deliver us from evil

The religious/politico alignment is obvious. That Obama can’t stand this blaring reciprocity being public will be his own downfall so long as the GOP public keeps throwing it in his face.

maverick muse on May 9, 2008 at 1:53 AM

Ri

ght. Treat people the same as you would want to be treated.
Nothing wrong with that.

Travis1 on May 8, 2008 at 11:32 PM

I think I have read that before ; ” Do unto others……”

Johan Klaus on May 9, 2008 at 2:10 AM

If still doubting the mutual respect club, the thoughtful Christian and Atheist have more in common than they have with Code Pink.

Tomorrow provides a public display of religion (witchcraft) demonstrated loudly on the streets of Berkeley outside of the Marine Recruiting Center, Friday. “Women are coming to cast spells and do rituals and to impart wisdom to figure out how we’re going to end war,” Zanne Sam Joi of Bay Area Code Pink told FOXNews.com

maverick muse on May 9, 2008 at 2:27 AM

I think I have read that before ; ” Do unto others……”

Johan Klaus on May 9, 2008 at 2:10 AM

That is my personal philosophy. Do unto others … … before they get a chance to do unto me.

Tuco on May 9, 2008 at 2:35 AM

Connie on May 8, 2008 at 11:55 PM

absolutely.

homesickamerican on May 9, 2008 at 4:43 AM

Agree with this quote too. “The hidden God” loves each one and leaves no one totally alone, even those who may not believe He’s there right now.

This is one of the more civilized religion/atheist threads, at least so far.
Entelechy on May 8, 2008 at 11:22 PM

I hope for civilized discourse always. Let’s just hope it continues.
thuja on May 8, 2008 at 11:26 PM

AP is testing the waters here with a completely uncontroversial religion thread to see if we will behave ourselves.

pedestrian on May 8, 2008 at 11:43 PM

Hope it does continue, and hope the civility of this thread (if it continues) will be remembered later. Mighty tired of going on religion threads trying to have a respectful conversation and seeing the personal bashing coming from both sides. Y’all know who you are. ;)

inviolet on May 9, 2008 at 5:55 AM

Right. Treat people the same as you would want to be treated.
Nothing wrong with that.

Travis1 on May 8, 2008 at 11:32 PM

What if one is a masochist?

soundingboard on May 9, 2008 at 6:41 AM

What if one is a masochist?

You know the old joke about the difference between a sadist and a masochist, right?
.
The masochist says, “Hurt me.”
.
The sadist says, “No.”
.
Heh.

Chap on May 9, 2008 at 7:10 AM

That fact that the RULE is called the “golden rule” underlines humanities real love, mamon.

TheSitRep on May 9, 2008 at 7:33 AM

The “hidden God” is that like the unknown God on Mars Hill?

flytier on May 9, 2008 at 7:48 AM

I loves me my Mamon, but only on the weekends.

ronsfi on May 9, 2008 at 9:57 AM

“If Christians really believed in the mystery of God, we would realise that proper talk about God is always difficult, always tentative – cardinal”

Speak for yourself bud, I have no problem talking about God. The mystery is real not tentative

Axiom: A self-evident or universally recognized truth

Math and physics are filled with axioms. For instance: “for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” is a theory.

Most accept this theory as a truth. We build jet planes based upon faith that this theory is true. It seems true to me but unlike many scientifically minded people I accept the possibility that this phenomenom may not be eternal. Perhaps matter will wind down with time and behave differently.

Some will not accept this possibility. That is blind faith. Most will live their lives assuming Newton’s law is true because it is the most reasonable course of action. This is reasoned faith. Deep down inside, most of these reasonable people believe with all their hearts that Newton’s law will be true forever. That is the hidden faith.
Hard wired. Built in.

Many in America believe with all their hearts that some truths are self evident. For some reason, even some atheists believe that certain truths are self evident.

Newton’s law can be observed with hard data but the self evident truths of the spirit are coming out of the same internal faith as the belief in God.

I am honest about my self evident trusisms. I see the pattern of acceptance of certain truths by faith in every human being as evidence that we are hard wired (Created) to accept these truths.

The first step to recovery is the get the scientific atheist to examine his own beliefs and accept that he too is a creature of faith plus reason. Otherwise we perpetuate the illusion that scince is divorced from intuition

“If Christianity gave European thought the impression that God can be conceptually determined and pinned down and proved as a hypothesis, then it is hardly surprising that there has been resistance, as science and culture have developed, to worshipping this idea of God.”

That is why I find this preacher confused since God is an axiom, not a hypothesis. It is a self evident truth or not

entagor on May 9, 2008 at 1:24 PM

Those who promote that science and metaphysics are at odds with each other should consider what a neurologist from Oxford is saying.

ID: The Quest For Identity In The 21st Century by Susan Greenfield, to be published by Sceptre on May 15

An adaptation is linked from the Drudge Report, May 10th.
The REAL brain drain: Modern technology – including violent video games – is changing the way our brains work, says neuroscientist. By SUSAN GREENFIELD
The Daily Mail, May 9, 2008

When I say “shaped”, I’m not talking figuratively or metaphorically; I’m talking literally.
At a microcellular level, the infinitely complex network of nerve cells that make up the constituent parts of the brain actually change in response to certain experiences and stimuli.

The brain, in other words, is malleable – not just in early childhood but right up to early adulthood, and, in certain instances, beyond. The surrounding environment has a huge impact both on the way our brains develop and how that brain is transformed into a unique human mind.

Electronic devices and pharmaceutical drugs all have an impact on the micro- cellular structure and complex biochemistry of our brains. And that, in turn, affects our personality, our behaviour and our characteristics. In short, the modern world could well be altering our human identity.

[Harvard Medical School Research] But what was truly astonishing was that the group who had merely imagined doing the piano exercises saw changes in brain structure that were almost as pronounced as those that had actually had lessons. “The power of imagination” is not a metaphor, it seems; it’s real, and has a physical basis in your brain. Alas, no neuroscientist can explain how the sort of changes that the Harvard experimenters reported at the micro-cellular level translate into changes in character, personality or behaviour. But we don’t need to know that to realise that changes in brain structure and our higher thoughts and feelings are incontrovertibly linked.

My own musings follow regarding the power of prayer, faith and scientific research amalgamated in “Intelligent Design”. “Idea determines form” is no longer merely the 19th Century hypothesis by Liszt but a fact substantiated in brain matter. We are all born with the ability to imagine. What we do with that imagination determines our lives, what we desire and make of ourselves within the confines of the physical world. Though we may all have the same general opportunity or ability to imagine, we may not all have the same general inclination to exercise faith in intelligence beyond our present capacity to fully comprehend. The empirical scientific mode is stunted by ignorance when it censors the power of imagination, just as literalist Christian fundamentalism is stunted by ignorance when it censors scientific study. That observation aside, Western atheists and Christians do share a common beginning in culture and genes, and as such, should appreciate each other’s accomplishments for what they are without complete censorship one way or the other, and without complete endorsement one way or the other. It is too vain and foolish to project oneself to be absolutely without fault.

maverick muse on May 10, 2008 at 11:12 AM

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