Video: Fred Barnes on Hillary’s “downscale” voters
posted at 8:55 pm on May 6, 2008 by Allahpundit
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They’re “lower class” in every sense of the term, he insists, declining his colleagues’ appeals to him to climb down and prompting the awkward, boycott-averting disclaimer aimed at Fox’s working class viewers you’ll find at the end of the clip. Exit question: Is Barnes, shall we say, familiar with the price of arugula at Whole Foods?
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If you work for a living at least you have class unlike certain prognosticators
William Amos on May 6, 2008 at 8:58 PM
No class.
Just an ass.
profitsbeard on May 6, 2008 at 8:59 PM
Anyone surprised? These “experts” get paid to sit in their studios and study the habits and patterns of the commoners.
fourstringfuror on May 6, 2008 at 8:59 PM
BTW if republicans wonder why they arent connecting to voters this is a case in point.
The republican party has been too elitist lately and that more than anything else is causing it election problems.
STOP PUSHING RICH ELITES AS ELECTION CANDIDATES !
William Amos on May 6, 2008 at 9:00 PM
I watched this live tonight and I really did not get the impression Fred thought that but rather he was explaining what the Pollsters call “working class.”
Look at the demographics that make up the “working class” voters according to polsters and see if they are not lower income and lowest levels of education.
The problem is with the pollsters claiming the lowest income and education folks are “working class” not Fred Barnes for trying to explain the pollsters use of the term.
EJDolbow on May 6, 2008 at 9:01 PM
I can’t watch Fox News election coverage because I find Barnes and Kristol unbearable. Now we really know what Barnes was thinking of us while we were opposing McCain-Kennedy amnesty that he wanted so badly.
Mark1971 on May 6, 2008 at 9:01 PM
I saw the whole thing go down live. I couldn’t believe what Barns was saying. It was so elitist, he was making what Democrats say, are stereotypical comments about working class people. You would think Barns is smart enough not to say these idiotic comments on national television.
Way to go Barns…asshat.
Lance Murdock on May 6, 2008 at 9:02 PM
I generally like Fred even when I don’t agree with him (on shamnesty, for one), but he is a self-admitted Beltway Boy.
ReubenJCogburn on May 6, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Insulting, out of touch and not a surprise.
koolbrease on May 6, 2008 at 9:05 PM
I watched this and Fred was just talking about how people are classified for the polsters and people like that. I have heard Fred talk about being young and in the service and not having money or health insurance. I am pretty sure his roots are very much working class too.
I thought the more interesting point is that Obama does so well with African Americans and affluent white people and the very young. What a combination.
Hillary does better with traditional middle class Democrats.
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Yep. Karl Rove said some stupid stuff like this in a speech about immigration once too. Something about not wanting his kid to have to dig ditches or clean hotel rooms so we need illegals to do that work for us. Shudder. Give me working class “down market” folks any day of the week, thank you very much.
funky chicken on May 6, 2008 at 9:13 PM
He should offer up an instructional video of how patricians put their pants on.
Limerick on May 6, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Mark:
Oh please what does immigration have to do with this? Barnes is also pro life, does that mean most pro lifers are eltists or something?
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Outside world, meet someone who lives inside the Beltway.
SouthernGent on May 6, 2008 at 9:15 PM
Dude, where’s my comment? I’ll repeat it, sorry if it magically reappears. Karl Rove made the same kind of asshatted comment in a speech once about how he didn’t want his kid to have to dig ditches or clean hotel rooms, which is why we need to have lots of illegals to do that kind of work for us. No gracias, Fred and Karl and the rest of you. Give me “downscale” US citizens doing honest work for honest pay any day of the week.
funky chicken on May 6, 2008 at 9:16 PM
Yeah, that’s something that Michael Barone figured out three months ago. Barnes has never had an original thought in his life.
Nichevo on May 6, 2008 at 9:18 PM
funcky chicken:
How many ditches have you dug lately?
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 9:19 PM
BTW if republicans wonder why they arent connecting to voters this is a case in point.
The republican party has been too elitist lately and that more than anything else is causing it election problems.
STOP PUSHING RICH ELITES AS ELECTION CANDIDATES !
William Amos on May 6, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Yep. It hurts the GOP to get caught saying this crap more than it hurts dems because the media/hollywood have succeeded in selling the GOP = rich, mean snob image.
funky chicken on May 6, 2008 at 9:19 PM
I wish Fred Barnes put some order in his brain like he’s doing every time he gets the turn to speak while putting order to his piece of sheet and pen.
He reminds me of a pregnant cow whose time is due and was left with her calf hanging out from her rump.
Indy Conservative on May 6, 2008 at 9:19 PM
Barnes has always been an elitist douchebag, he’s like McCain on immigration, you just have to wait for the mask to slip to see it.
doubleplusundead on May 6, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Lower-Middle Class would have been a better description, as it doesn’t have the same negative implications. I sympathize at the reason for the gaffe, as I’ve never liked the term working class either. Seems to imply that those who earn a decent income don’t work.
phronesis on May 6, 2008 at 9:21 PM
Nichevo:
Barnes was not talking about that, it was just something I thought was interesting. And Barnes has been a conservative commentator for years. Just because people did not agree with his stance on immigration is no reason to discount everything he says. After all, a lot of the hardliners were not right either. Immigration has not turned out to be a huge advantage to conservatives. Not at all.
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 9:22 PM
I’m a gardener and rather enjoy driving those little Case tractors (not Bobcats, too squirrely) so I’d say I’ve dug a few in my time. And I spread my own landscape rock and plant my own trees. We rented a jackhammer to plant one in caliche clay last time we lived in the Southwest.
I don’t think I need a Mexican or Guatemalan to do my physical labor, and don’t look down my nose on hard working Americans who do an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay.
But I do love arugula.
funky chicken on May 6, 2008 at 9:23 PM
How about illegal immigration? Has it turned out well for us?
Limerick on May 6, 2008 at 9:24 PM
Limerick:
Well thus far it has split the party, been a boon to Democrats and has made it almost impossible to have a civil conversation on the subject. For instance this thread was not supposed to even be about immigration, but needless to say it devolved into it.
I wish to God that when I was farming I had been able to come across all these anti elitist hardworking people. But in truth I did well to find a hay crew.
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 9:27 PM
I think the question was, has it been good for America? Needless to say, you have no answer to that.
Repeat your tired cliches about wicked hardline extremists if it makes you feel superior though.
flenser on May 6, 2008 at 9:32 PM
Before my wife and I started our business I worked 25 years in the construction(glass) industry. The reason they turned to hiring cheap labor was because of the glut of cheap labor available.
Your next argument will be ‘well that is free enterprise’.
Not the same. It is the same as a Chinese manufacturer dumping inventory on the American market below cost. There is no difference in the unfairness of the practice. The reason for the glut of labor that would ‘do jobs Americans won’t do’ is because the political leadership allowed the market to be glutted at the expense of the legal citizens.
All that humanitarian, wave the flag, rah rah crap is just that….crap. There was NOTHING to stop those people from coming her legally. They came illegally because it was the easy way out. Fairness? Yeah…..that was fairness alright.
Limerick on May 6, 2008 at 9:32 PM
He’s a bumbling turd for the most part.
V15J on May 6, 2008 at 9:32 PM
funky chicken:
I have dug ditches and milked cows and put up hay and harvested corn for my cows. I have also worked in nursing homes and taken of care of dying people. I have done the visiting nurse thing for shut ins and the elderly too. I am ashamed to say that most people I know would not want to do any of those things. But someone has to. Nothing elitist about shoveling manure or feeding an old lady who does not know her name anymore.
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 9:33 PM
I was actually watching this tonight when he said this – they were talking about exit polls and defining terms. Kondrake defined “working class” as those without a college education. So what exactly are those of us who work our tails off that have a college education? A part they don’t show here actually has Hume disputing the definition of working class by Kondrake because he considers himself someone who works, as do many other college educated individuals. All that to say Barnes point was not a knock on what have traditionally been called “blue collar” workers, but on the redefining of terms for political purposes. Sure it sounds much nicer to call the class of workers without a college education the working class, but quite frankly it is disingenuous because they do not necessarily work more then any other group. He was NOT commenting on the quality of the people doing the work, just on the terminology.
Govgirl on May 6, 2008 at 9:39 PM
The only sound that I would ever care to hear coming from Fred Barnes mouth is the painfully piercing scream that he would emit as he was handcuffed to a stop sign, soaked in gaoline and lit on fite ………
That would makes my jaw muscles get loose!
grtflmark on May 6, 2008 at 9:41 PM
The biggest problem with Barns is that he is a typical Ivy league elitist. He is not much different from your liberal elitist, the only differences is that he is Republican and religious.
But Barns is as WASPy as you get when he took that swipe at Catholic voters.
Lance Murdock on May 6, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Exit question: Will Barns be on the panel the rest of the week or will he be on leave of absent?
Lance Murdock on May 6, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Eh I will give Fred a pass because we all say something stupid and at least he has conservative leanings.
Not like he was listening to a sermon GD america and was ok with it
William Amos on May 6, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Limerick:
I am tired and I am not going to get into some useless argument with you about this. It is just pointless.
Suffice to say:
I support border security and guest worker program for certain kinds of industry such as agriculture which need seasonal labor. For instance, last year Colorado had to use prison labor for the fields because locals did not want to do the work… and migrants from Mexico have been coming to the United States to pick produce for decades. If you think Americans want to do this work, I have to admit I have my doubts about that.
Overall I am not a big fan of illegal immigration and I want to see it brought under control. But I am not going to assume that anyone who does not see it the same way I do is an elitist. Btw, the term WOP used to be used as slang for Italians, it means without papers. This is not a new problem.
But I have to admit, I am just sick of the whole subject.
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Barnes is not Ivy League. I am not even sure he is that well educated.
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 9:49 PM
Well his undergrad degree was at UVA, but he had a fellowship at Harvard, close enough for me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Barnes_(journalist)
Lance Murdock on May 6, 2008 at 9:52 PM
As a non-college grad making less than 20K a year who watched Fox’s coverage live all night I can say I’m not the least bit offended by Fred. They were having fun and he was making his point very poorly. He said Hillary supporters in the media never say she appeals to lower class voters – they say downscale instead. Kondracke then said downscale doesn’t mean lower class it means lower middle class. Then the whole conversation became about Fred being wrong to lump lower mids with lower class and the stupidity compounded until Brit finally put an end to it.
Fred was right and so was Mort and it doesn’t matter cause with America’s unmatched social mobility class doesn’t matter.
And as a guy who competes with illegals for work and has done so for the last ten years let me just say that the amnesty is needed and so is the fence. You can’t deport 8% of the workforce in an economy with a 5% unemployment rate and expect good things to happen. Not to mention it’s closer to 15% of the non-skilled work force and a lot of the unemps are skilled workers who aren’t going to wash dishes or work in hotels in resort towns or pick produce 11 hours a day – even if it is arugula. So Fred’s right about that too.
The Apologist on May 6, 2008 at 9:53 PM
This is surprising only to those who haven’t yet caught on that Fred Barnes and his ilk are just as liberal as the Democrat “opposition”.
Lee on May 6, 2008 at 9:55 PM
Lance:
I heard him talking about his youth once and he mentioned how he and his wife could not afford health insurance for the first years of their marriage.
I can remember Ann Coulter making some crack about Harriet Miers being a charwoman because she went to a state university. In fact she did some oped or something about how Ivy League people are just a little bit better than the rest of us. But there were people on the right who defended her just the same.
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Lee:
That is crazy.
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Neocons are elite commies. The great unwashed conservative base are proiud paleocons without a representative party for the last few years.
Valiant on May 6, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Also…the comment section here just gets stupider every week and the newbies get uglier and more bitter every week. Not God and guns bitter, more like “Everyone to the left of Ron Paul is a Communist!” bitter. The anti-illegal folks get tarred with more anti-Mexican folks around here more and more often. The anti-McCain folks are just as angry and bile spewing as “Kos”saks too. This place used to be cool…it’s not as fun to hang out here nowadays. I hope it gets better.
The Apologist on May 6, 2008 at 10:06 PM
See what I mean.
The Apologist on May 6, 2008 at 10:08 PM
William Amos on May 6, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Like John Kerry, John Edwards, The Clinton’s and Obama?
yea they are all poor..
Chakra Hammer on May 6, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Why does anyone care how rich a politician is? I don’t vote for a guy cause he shares my biography I vote for him cause I agree with him more than the other guy.
Who are these class conscious Republicans and where did they come from?
The Apologist on May 6, 2008 at 10:16 PM
I never really thought of the Republicans as being class conscious, that always seemed to me to be Democrat territory.Now it seems that everyone is about class.
One thing about this election, is that race is going to be a huge factor. In fact it will get very complicated because Asians and hispanics tend to vote for Hillary. I wonder what they will do if/when Obama gets the nomination?
Terrye on May 6, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Why are my comments ending up in moderation? Have I crossed some invisible HA line? Not a swear word, not a racial slur, and not a blue-pill-by-the-proper-name in any of them.
Limerick on May 6, 2008 at 10:32 PM
I agree, let’s not descend into class warfare. Leave that stuff for Barnes, he seems to like it.
doubleplusundead on May 6, 2008 at 10:33 PM
“Lower class” sounds insulting and I was offended.
I’d almost think about canning him for such a statement. Truth doesn’t bother me – but – this statement sounds as if an entire group of people are scum.
pbundy on May 6, 2008 at 10:34 PM
whys everyone so sensitive?
you all sound like a bunch of libs.
im with The Apologist on this one.
blatantblue on May 6, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Upper income, middle income, lower income.
“Class” is either Marxist or elitist.
And betrays a lack of same.
profitsbeard on May 6, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Like you, I have been posting her for a couple of years. Things will get better when McCain is out of the picture and we can all focus on the common enemy, liberalism. It used to be something only relegated to the Democratic Party. McCain is an abomination.
Valiant on May 6, 2008 at 10:44 PM
good point.
blatantblue on May 6, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Does anyone here remember when the term “families” changed to “working families?”
A subtle change that altered the entire political landscape.
Words mean something.
Connie on May 6, 2008 at 10:49 PM
I would have to disagree with you on that. The reason the Republicans have lost the trust is that they became more liberal, and GWB(the leader) has moved so far to the left on social and spending issues that it disgusts people. They do not see it as a right/left issue.
And with the bad press ( meant in both ways ), the ppl are ready for a change. I do not blame them, but I do disagree with the logic that they claim for such change. Unlike you and I, most of America are not paying the attention needed to make an educated decision. America is busy, paying their bills, getting the kids to school and trying to make ends meet in a tough economic time. They do not have the time we MAKE in order to do our social bidding here within the realm in politics. I have a sister that is the “normal” American, and neither of them have a clue. After I explained to them the tax and social plans of all Clinton, Obama, and McCain, they asked me “Why haven’t we heard this on the news???”…of course I told them they were listening to the wrong news.
In the end, our political leaders in charge get blamed for stuff that they can not control on spot (gas prices) and solutions such as the “gas tax holiday” do really nothing for the economy…if you decrease the price during a high demand session, it increases usage, which globally increases demand, which in turn makes prices higher…rinse and repeat.
lsutiger on May 6, 2008 at 10:49 PM
No fans of In defense of Elitism here? Elitism is preferable to a leveling popualism. Education and wealth are goods to be desired. Elitism only becomes dangerous when it is coupled with the left’s desire to infantilize anyone they deem non-elite.
phronesis on May 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM
That and the insufferable cosmopolitanism of the leftist elites.
phronesis on May 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM
See what I mean.
Who in the last fifty years of President’s would be more likely than John McCain to fight government waste and government spending? McCain is pro-life, he’s pro-gun, he’s pro-military, he’s anti government control of healthcare, he’s pro-tax cuts and wants to cut spending to pay for it. He’ll appoint Roberts’ and Alitos. He’s said Scalia is his favorite Justice.
In what Bircheresque fever swamp is McCain an abomination? Who are these Republicans that have no sense of Edmund Burke’s point about the imperfection of men and their inadequacy to uytopian governance. McCain ain’t perfect, but to call him an abomination is frankly, unconserveative. Hillary is an abomination, Obama, Teddy Kennedy, Henry Waxman, the late Paul Wellstone – these are abominations.
McCain is a decent man with a solid conservative record. Things will get better when we don’t face the prospect of an Obama Presidency with Democratic majorities in the Congress. McCain is the best alternative we have and he’s a good one too.
The Apologist on May 6, 2008 at 10:58 PM
Flashback: Fred was sympatico with the WSJ crowd, W, and Pansy Graham on illegal immigrant amnesty. Make sense now?
Jaibones on May 6, 2008 at 10:59 PM
Fred was sympatico with the WSJ crowd, W, and Pansy Graham on illegal immigrant amnesty.
So am I. Does that make me an unreal American?
The Apologist on May 6, 2008 at 11:07 PM
As Rush has said many times the Republican party is in a battle between the country club blue-bloods (ie. Fred Barnes) and conservatives. The group that includes Fred don’t have any morals. It’s just the game they’ve chosen to play and get paid. They are fiscal conservatives who don’t mind big government when they can use it to their advantage. These are the folks that love McCain.
Terri on May 6, 2008 at 11:11 PM
The McCain-Kennedy and McCain-Feingold swamp, not to mention all the other little things he’s used as an excuse to take swipes at us. I hate McCain for the same reason I hate Chris Hitchens, I don’t have much patience for people who feel the need to trash me at every opportunity, then have the nerve to demand my support.
doubleplusundead on May 6, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Nah, makes you wrong on that issue though.
doubleplusundead on May 6, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Well, these cable news outlets are all on 24/7, have ratings wars to fight, and have to have SOMETHING to bleat about nonstop….so we get these useless, meaningless demographic labels. Screw that.
I was a little offended, but Fred will say something else in the next couple of weeks to redeem himself in my eyes and bla bla.
We are talking about punditry here, they all think they have to have something cool to say and they sometimes mess up.
That said, I love Brit Hume, he is probably my favorite television journalist.
surrounded on May 6, 2008 at 11:14 PM
I’m so high class, I need an oxygen mask.
Travis1 on May 6, 2008 at 11:30 PM
QFT
- The Cat
MirCat on May 6, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Yeah. For me politics just isn’t personal. Hitch may hate my God and my faith, but he doesn’t represent a threat in any real way. And McCain may hate money in politics, but I know you can’t seperate the two and there’s always a way around the regs. It’s a hassle and he’s wrong, but I just don’t take it personally. On amnesty I agree with him and I compete with illegals for work so no one can call me a blue-blood elite. Economic facts are economic facts and you can’t deport that big a chunk of the workforce without serious reprecussions (read recession) and it’s stupid anyway once you get the fence.
I know you disagree with me on this issue, but I just don’t take it personally enough to call some fellow Repub an abomination or contribute to the election of Democrats over a policy disagreement. McCain’s the best we’ll do this year and he just isn’t as bad as the Neo-Birchers are pretending he is. The only Repubs I really dislike are former Repubs. And the only Dems I really like are former Dems.
The Apologist on May 6, 2008 at 11:37 PM
First thing I thought of when I read this post was Fred Barnes mincing around the country club with his nose held high and his bloody mary held aloft so it was just in peripheral view of his big fat upthrust nose.
Oh did I single out Fred Barnes? My bad.
RushBaby on May 6, 2008 at 11:46 PM
I saw this when it happened, and gasped. So did those around the table. He persisted in this idiocy, with no consideration of what he was doing to his party. He proved that elitism is not partial to the lefties.
He just said about those “old” people counting those IN absentee ballots, in the one outstanding county, “it’s bedtime for them”.
Entelechy on May 6, 2008 at 11:49 PM
That’s actually profound. Kudos doesn’t quite cut it. Megakudos!
RushBaby on May 6, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Fred Barnes is a good guy, he just had a senior moment.
Maxx on May 7, 2008 at 12:36 AM
It’s sad to say but given the current class structure in the US, working, union class, is lower class.There is an upper, rich, section and a lower, poor, section. There is no middle, unfortunately. That is why the US is being recognized as a Third World Country, by many in the world today, we have little, almost no, middle class. The very definition of a Third World Country. Again, I say this, with much sadness.
2Tru2Tru on May 7, 2008 at 1:17 AM
I love Fred.
29Victor on May 7, 2008 at 1:21 AM
You know if the Rep “talking heads” continue to dis the people I grew up with, the people that built this country, the people that have a love for country, a love for hard work, a good days pay for a good days work then they will lose by an even bigger margin come Nov. It is as if the Rep elites have no intention of going after Reagan Democrates. The Dems themselves could care less about these people also. So you have the blue bloods on the right protecting “the upper class” and the liberals on the left looking after the “poor class” and no one give a crap about the majority of America the “low-high middle class” Is is any wonder then why this country is in such dire straits. 60% of the country has no one looking out for their interests. I hope Fox news fires Fred over this. To me this is more insulting then the “nappy head ho’s” remark.
Third party votes sounding better all the time. BTW did you see McCain only got 73% in Nc and 76% in IN of the vote. senator Dole got 90%. If mcCain can’t get over 76% of the Rep vote in Nc and IN how the hell does he expect to carry the General election. so you go McCain embrace the lation vote. the middle class vote will stay home.
unseen on May 7, 2008 at 1:47 AM
Vote for Obama or you are Racist!
Chakra Hammer on May 7, 2008 at 2:21 AM
>:D
Chakra Hammer on May 7, 2008 at 2:21 AM
Barnes, Kondracke, and Kristol are all examples of elitist Republicans who want nothing to do with true, ethical and governmental conservatism any longer and are proving how out of touch they are by each passing day. Long live Charles Krauthammer and his continual jabs at such nonsense. Now there’s a Fox News contributor I absolutely love to watch and listen to; a man who gets it and isn’t afraid to say what needs to be said.
Jockolantern on May 7, 2008 at 2:34 AM
This is the only thing in your post that is factual. The rest show you are on McKool-Aid because you believe what he says, not what he does. Not only does he oppose most of the conservative points you raised, there is plenty of activity to back this up. The McCain-[insert Democrat here] bills are all un-Constitutional. He is an abomination on the order of those above because he is a traitor to his party and will destroy it from within. That is a much more effective death to conservatism than what the Democrats can muster up.
Valiant on May 7, 2008 at 3:43 AM
“STOP PUSHING RICH ELITES AS ELECTION CANDIDATES !”
As opposed to Democrat Socialist and Marxist candidates
davod on May 7, 2008 at 5:35 AM
wow. Fred just took himself down a half dozen pegs in my eyes. Seriously.
Sorry to see that side appear from a guy that I generally like.
Too bad.
moxie_neanderthal on May 7, 2008 at 7:44 AM
Even Brit Hume was embarassed by Fred’s dumb statement.
Notice how Brit made an appeal to all of Fox’s working class viewers to disregard what Fred said…..
Always Right on May 7, 2008 at 7:53 AM
Ah the face of the current Republican Party! And they wonder why they are in trouble! As a conservative I am pleased to watch these cretins stew in their own juices but saddened to see the party of Ronald Reagan taken over by these twerps! They are going to be destroyed this fall and then possibly they will invite conservatives back into the party. Until then, I remain on the sidelines…
sabbott on May 7, 2008 at 8:37 AM
ReubenJCogburn on May 6, 2008 at 9:02 PM
Exactly right Reuben… Rush Limbaugh has warned us about a group of “these critters” who are attempting to high-jack the Conservative movement by modernizing the ideology. Principles and values don’t need to be modernized! Fools!
Keemo on May 7, 2008 at 8:39 AM
There’s an amazing new study out by the VP of the Heritage Foundation Michael G. Franc, that finds that working class voters are increasingly shifting to the GOP: Janitors, Custodians, Waitresses, Truckers, Electricians, Cable Guys, et.al.
Seems working America is going Republican, while non-working Government subsidies receiving America, including Corporate elites formerly with the GOP, are turning to the Dems.
We may be witnessing a complete reversal in the American electorate for the first time for ‘08, one that could radically alter the major parties for decades to come.
Excerpts of the study at: Libertarian Republican blog
ericdondero on May 7, 2008 at 9:19 AM
I’m confused…are you upset that there are poor people in America, or that Barnes called them ‘lower class’? Being classified on the low end of the scale is the least of your worries when you are poor…trust me on that.
‘Working Class’ voters is a useless demographic…it tries to encompass too many facets of society. It apparently includes union workers in Michigan, farmers in Texas and waitresses in California. It’s unlikely that any of those people have much in common or are concerned about the same issues.
Are we allowed to say ‘Upper Class’, ‘Middle Class’ and…er…everyone else? If you don’t like ‘Lower Class’, then pick something else. The fact of the matter is that it’s descriptive.
Asher on May 7, 2008 at 9:37 AM
Don’t the minority groups have “code words” they offended by. We all use code words. When the dems say working class they mean low class, when the republicans say working class they mean blue collar.
The dems say government assisted, the republicans say welfare.
right2bright on May 7, 2008 at 9:38 AM
And I should add that ‘Working Class’ is an insult to anyone outside that demographic. It assumes that people are wealthy because they’ve all won the lottery or obtained their money through devious means.
It’s an old code word….they used to call them proletariats.
Asher on May 7, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Fred talks down about people and this definitely isn’t the first time. He thoroughly disgusts me.
To me…
Upper class – Wealthy (working or not)
Middle class – Just “regular” people (usually working)
Lower class – I don’t even use that word/phrase or think of it without thinking about pigeon-holing people in a derogatory way. I prefer to use the word “Poor.” Low class conjures up a sense that someone doesn’t have good sense or good taste. Some upper class person can lose their shirt and end up poor but that doesn’t make them “low class.”
White collar – office jobs (regardless education)
Blue collar – manual jobs (regardless education)
I live on a farm and I’ve shoveled my share of crap and I also work in an office. Believe me, I’d love to make my living by shoveling crap at home.
Oink on May 7, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Amen! Amen! Amen!
Fred Barnes is every bit as condescending an elitist as the Uber-Libs. The only thing that differentiates him is foreign policy and economics.
TheBigOldDog on May 7, 2008 at 10:09 AM
I would not characterize Bush or McCain as elitist. Not by a mile. Rich =/ elitists. It has nothing to do with your net worth. It has everything to do with your attitude and the respect you have in your heart for people who bust their ass to put bread on the table and a roof over their heads.
TheBigOldDog on May 7, 2008 at 10:12 AM
I don’t like McCain, but I can’t make a credible charge of him being an elite.
And who else can run for president? If anyone here on this board is able to take off work for a year or more just for the chance to possibly become our president, I’d call you rich.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Democrats and Republicans alike are against illegal immigration in great numbers. If anything, it unifies us.
And I don’t see how it split the party. McCain, Bush, and other amnesty supporters got smacked by the party, and apparently it didn’t stick since McCain’s the nominee.
Why does that shame you? You’re right, I don’t want to take care of dying people or dig ditches or milk cows. Do you want to do my job? I sit behind a desk all day managing a team that writes descriptions of television shows.
At least your jobs need to be done and provide a service to the country. Mine don’t. The world will got on just find without knowing before hand what this week’s Lost episode will be about.
No job is perfect. The fact that less people want to do yours only means you have less competition.
You’re right, they don’t want to do that work, at least not for less than a decent wage. That work used to be able to provide for a family. Now it can’t.
Americans are just as hardworking as the Mexicans and South Americans who come up here, but many have families to provide for, in this country, where the cost of living is higher than the jobs can support.
He’s saying that now. When the man was being considered, he called him “too conservative.” I respect your perspective on this, but conservatives are distrustful of him for no reason.
Esthier on May 7, 2008 at 10:23 AM
All Fred did was expose the “code” language used by politicians, nothing more.
Maxx on May 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM
They’re-a gonna get in trouble.
Reaps on May 7, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Barnes is a typical Rockefeller Republican. He is completely contemptuous of the working class and feels they need to be placated and then lined up to vote. He is a long time open borders advocate and an annoying media personality to boot.
Hmmn. To boot? Yes, I say Fox should give him and his useless buddy Mort the boot from the network
GogglesPisano on May 7, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Fred Barnes is a euphemism for snob
ditto
It was not the stance Barnes took on immigration. It was the arrogant dismissal of conservative opponents of the amnesty bill that insulted me so much I stopped watching Fox news completely
Conservatives like myself do not oppose illegal immigration as a political strategy, we oppose it because it is right. Conservatives like me do not find illegal immigration to be an advantage to the nation we love. Selling my nation down the river to gain the votes of non assimilating illegals is not a win for me
entagor on May 7, 2008 at 11:51 AM
I saw this last night while I was channel surfing.
I used to like The Beltway Boys and Brit Hume’s show until they made fun of the ‘wide-eyed conspiracy theorists’ who know that NAFTA is the beginning of the end of this country. (BTW, even Mexico is losing jobs to China.)
If you’re an elitist who’s got a job in the media and have investments connected to global interests, you would make fun of people who see the country sinking into the third world that they are selling it to. (We don’t need no stinking middle class!) They’re too busy throwing parties in their ivory towers.
I very rarely read Charles Krauthammer anymore; that’s the saddest part.
Christine on May 7, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Thank you for that, entagor.
Terrye: What does abortion have to do with Fred’s snobbery? He proves that Republican pro-lifers CAN be snobs. Just wanting Fred to be a nice, conservative guy doesn’t make it so.
“After all, a lot of the hardliners were not right either.” Please, explain this comment and do you have any children in the public schools in say, S. California?
Christine on May 7, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Adopting Fred’s world view, I guess the natural question is to ask to see Fred’s balance sheet and transcripts from UV and Harvard so we’ll know where to place him in the pantheon of worth and class.
Either way, an ill formed phrase from a condescending wordsmith is not as pardonable as one from a lowly person or pleb who simply doesn’t have the capacity or faculties to know any better.
moxie_neanderthal on May 7, 2008 at 2:43 PM
Believe it or not, I grew up on a mini-farm, and know how to do that, and milk a cow, even. I also work in the highest levels of offices, and you’d never know…it’s the person, and how they are, and how they treat others, not what ‘class’ they’re in. It’s only how much class they have. Thanks for sharing, and I understood you to perfection,
Entelechy on May 7, 2008 at 4:41 PM
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