And Buy Danish,

If a presidential candidate being associated with someone who believes America deserves to be attacked by terrorism causes so much hand-wringing on your part, why don’t call on McCain to reject Hagee’s endorsement?

Tom_Shipley on May 5, 2008 at 9:59 AM

I think you’re confusing Hagee with Pat Robertson.

By the way, Malcolm X was truly one of the great Americans of the time. His autobiography should be read by every high schooler in America, in my opinion.

Tom_Shipley on May 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM

Just one of the many idiotic opinions by which we judge you to be a fool, Tom. Keep digging, though, it’s kind of fun to piss on you while you’re down in that muddy hole.

If a presidential candidate being associated with someone who believes America deserves to be attacked by terrorism causes so much hand-wringing on your part, why don’t call on McCain to reject Hagee’s endorsement?

Obama DIDN’T SAY 9/11 was America’s chicken’s coming home to roost… WRIGHT DID.

And again, you try your “guilt by association” by trying to tie those words to Obama by saying Malcolm X is a hero of his.

Proves my point exactly.

By the way, Malcolm X was truly one of the great Americans of the time. His autobiography should be read by every high schooler in America, in my opinion.

Yes, character counts. But people aren’t looking at Obama’s character or HIS works or HIS words. They are solely attacking the people around him and attack Obama for THEIR actions and THEIR words.

Tom_Shipley on May 5, 2008 at 8:50 AM

Really? We are looking at his character – that’s the point!

As for not using his words, that is indisputably false. We cite his own words from Audacity of Hope, and Dreams from my Father, not to mention his own words about Jeremiah Wright, which shift from week to week, and his own words which lamely try to justify his relationship with Ayers & Dohrn.

As for taking things “out of context”, the phrase “America’s chickens are coming home to roost” made headlines when Malcolm X, a heroic figure of both Rev. Wright and Obama, used it in response to JFK’s assassination. There is no way that phrase can be taken out of context; it is a phrase which holds America responsible for the evil acts of others. Period.

I would rather not. It’s legitimate to ask McCain questions about him — which has been done. And maybe even ask him to decline the endorsement. After all, Obama declined the unsolicited endorsement of Louis Farrakan. Had he not, YOU KNOW the right would have ran with that.

But, I really don’t want to see people hammering this issue because IT’S NOT THAT BIG A DEAL.

I agree with everything you said, and I realize that Tom Shipley is playing a game

Ed’s playing a game too. Taking the “mainstream” quote out of the context that it was in on the Web site and placing it next to Obama when claiming he believes Ayers and Dohrn’s most controversial remarks are “mainstream” is most certainly a game.

Ask Ed straight up if he believes Obama thinks those remarks represent mainstream politics in Chicago or the U.S. Ask Ed if he thinks Obama shares those same beliefs.

In fact, Ed, if you read this, I’d like to hear your answer.

Politics has become a game — how do we paint the worst picture possible of our opponent? In advertising, copywriters will often ask “what can we say?” Which is basically the same as asking “how far can we stretch the truth without getting sued.” That’s essentially what goes on in a lot of blogs, except for the worry of litigation.

Yes, character counts. But people aren’t looking at Obama’s character or HIS works or HIS words. They are solely attacking the people around him and attack Obama for THEIR actions and THEIR words. As Obama said on Meet the Press yesterday, yes it’s fair to look at Wright, as long as you look at his relationship with him IN CONTEXT of everything Obama has done.

I remember when Obama first started gaining momentum, and everyone was saying how hard it would be to attack this guy. Everyone loved him. Well, obviously many people have been hard at work concocting many plans.

Truth doesn’t matter. Smear does.

Let’s review Reverend Haggee’s dossier…!
Shall we…?

J_Gocht on May 5, 2008 at 12:43 AM

Since you can’t even spell his name correctly, good luck with that!

Beto Ochoa on May 4, 2008 at 11:34 PM
shazbat on May 5, 2008 at 12:28 AM

I agree with everything you said, and I realize that Tom Shipley is playing a game, but Shipley is just one of many who are promoting the canard that Hagee is McCain’s “spiritual advisor” and therefore it is important that this particular talking point be challenged.

Interesting thought…
a tu quoque argument… shazbat on May 5, 2008 at 12:28 AM

“Tu quoque is only a fallacy when one uses it so as to divert attention from the issue at hand, or to avoid or fail to respond to an argument.

Let’s review Reverend Haggee’s dossier…!
Shall we…?

It must be doubly hard for him as he watches public perceptions of Obama generate higher negatives each day. So, he lashes out at both Ed and McCain. It is a sad thing to watch.
a capella on May 5, 2008 at 12:10 AM

Gosh, I’m not really certain polls really count that much…when we’re six months out from the election…?

My thought is; …Hill in Indiana and Obama in North Carolina. So what’s new?

Mr. Shipley is; as per usual…right on 95% of the time…!

Word to the wise. If you are going to scrape the bottom of the intellectual barrel and make a tu quoque argument, it would help if you had something resembling an actual parallel. McCain is not a 20 year member of Hagee’s congregation. Nowhere close. Obama was a member of Wright’s congregation for 2 godawful decades. This is not about politely accepting endorsements from wacko pastors you barely know. This is about participation in, membership in, hanging out with, donation to, and actively forwarding the agenda of these wacko organizations. A subtle distinction that may be lost on you, but think about it for a while and you may get it.

More importantly, you are off topic. The topic is the Weather Underground and people who built actual bombs to kill actual people including kids. They didn’t just mouth off about it, they built and used actual bombs. I notice you have nothing to say about that. Wright isn’t even mentioned in the original post.

Beto Ochoa on May 4, 2008 at 11:34 PM

Of course. Sadly, Tom’s attempt to hijack the thread away from Obama and towards McCain certainly reinforces your hypothesis. He cannot bear to deal with what we are learning about Obama, so denies that Obama is responsible for material used on his own web site to defend Ayers. It must be doubly hard for him as he watches public perceptions of Obama generate higher negatives each day. So, he lashes out at both Ed and McCain. It is a sad thing to watch.

Tom_Shipley on May 4, 2008 at 8:17 PM

With respect to Reverend Hagee’s despicable “pulpit rants”…

My thought would be; keep our ammo dry till about October 15 and then unleash the “hounds of hell” with respect to St. Mc’s close association and appreciation of Reverend Hagee’s outrageous ministrations and sermons.

Question is, if this man is an advisor to McCain, someone whose endorsement he sought and is “proud” to have, does McCain share these same views of our country?
Does John McCain hate America enough to want to nuke his own country? Do we want someone as president who courts advice from a person who does?
Tom_Shipley on May 4, 2008 at 8:17 PM

Where’s the anguish and consternation on the right…?

I can’t find a single thing in this Mother Jones article that backs up the oft-repeated assertion that Hagee (or Ron Parsley) is McCain’s “spiritual advisor” or “spiritual guide”.

McCain could say (as could I) that Pope Benedict is a “great spiritual leader” but that in no way implies that Pope Benedict is our “spiritual advisor”.

Tom_Shipley on May 4, 2008 at 8:17 PM

What facts do you have at our disposal to buttress your claim that John Hagee is McCain’s “spiritual advisor”?

This?

Later, before speaking to a conservative group here, Mr. McCain repudiated the views of a prominent Texas televangelist, the Rev. John C. Hagee, who endorsed him last month. Mr. Hagee has called the Roman Catholic Church the “anti-Christ” and a “false cult system.”

Despite calls from the Catholic League to renounce the endorsement, Mr. McCain said last week that he was proud of Mr. Hagee’s spiritual leadership and his commitment to Israel and that “when he endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for or believes in.”

On Friday, Mr. McCain told The Associated Press that he took issue with Mr. Hagee’s comments on the Catholic Church.

“I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee’s, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics,” Mr. McCain said, adding that he had sent two of his children to Catholic school.

Someone, please, tell me where the hell I can send my daughters for a good college education, devoid of marxist brain-washing. Please??

shibumiglass on May 3, 2008 at 9:06 PM

Here. (Sorry for the multiple comments, but I’m catching up).

Were there any justice, both Ayers and his hag would have been dangling from the end of a rope within a year of the attacks.

SuperCool on May 4, 2008 at 12:21 AM

True.