I’ll read Robert Spencer if you’ll read Michael Scheuer.

Of course the demonization of Paul is a perfect example of why the Republican Party will continue to drift towards their own version of nihilism, where their rhetoric is completely unbelievable considering their actions. Bash the small government guy, bash the guy whose foreign policy rhetoric is in line with the Conservative foreign policy rhetoric up to 2000. There were a lot of warnings about hornets nests. We also fought Clinton when he tried to loosen wiretapping regulations, now many of you think warrants are passe.

You will vote for amnesty and like it in November. That is what the water carriers have delivered, that is the kind of treatment you will continue to receive by listening to them.

Rubbish. Muslims aren’t the enemy, radical Muslims are. They’re an extremely small group.
Jimmy Liberty on May 3, 2008 at 11:27 PM

So that “small group” shuts down Denmark, NYT, CNN, most all of the MSM, riots in the streets (I guess you consider 10 of thousands small for a riot)…ever try reading Robert Spencer?

Radical Islamists want to force your girlfriend to wear a burqa from head to toe, make you kneel down to Allah 5 times a day, ban pork products, censor newspapers, outlaw all pornography, gambling and booze, stone prostitutes in town squares, and jail your marijuana smoking buddy for life.

And with your help, they just might get what they want.

The issue isn’t a newsletter, Jimmy-boy. The problem is the c-o-n-t-e-n-t of his newsletter(s).

The fact that you think this is a good point… is enough to let me know that discussing your other “points” would be a laughable waste of time.

At least Spirit could process logic.

How’s that? The very author of the statement “That government is best, which governs least…” Thomas Jefferson launched the first War in our History against Islamo-Fascism in the early 1800s against the Barbary Pirates.

Secondly, how can Mr. Mantel equart the imposition of Sharia Law with “limited government,” for that’s what we all face, if we don’t fight back against the rising tide of Islamo-Fascism sweeping the planet. Look at what’s happening in Europe right now for gosh sakes.

Radical Islamists want to force your girlfriend to wear a burqa from head to toe, make you kneel down to Allah 5 times a day, ban pork products, censor newspapers, outlaw all pornography, gambling and booze, stone prostitutes in town squares, and jail your marijuana smoking buddy for life. How in the world is that consistent with “limited government.”

That’s the ultimate of authoritarian government, the complete opposite of liberty. And anyone who does not oppose Sharia and Islamo-Fascism like Ron Paul is NO LIBERTARIAN by any stretch of the meaning of the word.

Eric Dondero, Fmr. Senior Aide
US Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX)
1997-2003
Advance Man/Travel Aide
Ron Paul, Libertarian for President
1987/88

I understand why some people can’t see past the newsletter…

Jimmy Liberty on May 3, 2008 at 8:08 PM

The issue isn’t a newsletter, Jimmy-boy. The problem is the c-o-n-t-e-n-t of his newsletter(s).

Freedom allows for disgusting things. Free speech means people can say disgusting things. That doesn’t mean freedom is bad.

If you support freedom, of course disgusting groups are going to support you. They need freedom to be disgusting.

But freedom is obviously good too.

Ah, but freedom isn’t free, is it? And freedom doesn’t allow people to make false statments about someone either verbally or in print. You’d obviously know that being a libertarian and all, right?

Why you think Paul’s tainted because disgusting groups support him is beyond me.

Because it says something about the content and nature of of his message.

…there certainly are more reasonable people who support him.

Jimmy Liberty on May 3, 2008 at 8:08 PM

Lord knows why…

Rubbish. Muslims aren’t the enemy, radical Muslims are. They’re an extremely small group. The only reason they’re getting support from the moderate Muslims is because our presence is seen as an attack on their faith. It gives the radical Muslims credibility.

Read Michael Scheuer, or check out that audio book I listed earlier from the New Yorker. It’s good.

Jimmy Liberty on May 3, 2008 at 11:27 PM

Damn straight. After all, those Muslims parading in the streets after 9/11 when we wer nowhere near there were OUTARGED that America had been attacked.

Didn’t you see their signs? “Death to the Great Satan!”

… wait, do you think they might have been talking about us and not the Saudis who flew planes into our buildings, massacreing 3000+ people.

Funny, that.

Look at the stats in the url below and see where your beloved Republican party, that used to stand for getting us out of wars and emphasized limited government with controlled spending, has taken America:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/quinn1.html

“Inflation? There’s no stinkin’ inflation!”
“We have a strong U.S. dollar policy!”

Now go ahead…say something that refutes the government’s own statistics.

You don’t stand a chance in hell of winning in December because you represent the same old B.S. we’ve had the last eight years. Unfortunately, neither do the frickin dems who won’t reverse the trend, but make things worse.

McCain knows squat about economics. Don’t pretend he does.

Good luck with that!

Fed Up

(now go ahead and say something intelligent about 9/11 truthers, white supremacists etc. etc. blah, blah, blah)

I know Ron Paul’s followers are truthers

No I’m not. Few of us are. People who don’t like Paul like to pretend we all are, and that maybe Paul is too. Despite the fact that the reason they began disliking him is because he said… “They attack us because we’re over there.”

When he said ‘they’, do you really think he was talking about the Bush administration?

Fourth, we cannot destroy the enemy for he is more than 1 billion people.

Rubbish. Muslims aren’t the enemy, radical Muslims are. They’re an extremely small group. The only reason they’re getting support from the moderate Muslims is because our presence is seen as an attack on their faith. It gives the radical Muslims credibility.

Read Michael Scheuer, or check out that audio book I listed earlier from the New Yorker. It’s good.

First of all, the best way to understand the political continuum is from no government to all government: Anarchy to libertarian to paleoconservative to conservative to neoconservative to third way to liberal to leftist to socialist to communist/fascist.

Secondly, Ron Paul may be a fruitcake – frankly I don’t know. But his particular approach to governance (libertarian) is consistent and in close keeping with the intentions of our Founding Fathers who designed our republic on a foundation of LIMITED government maximizing human liberty.

Our constitution calls for a declaration of war for innumerable good reasons. Both the Dhimmicrats and the big government Republicans have conveniently neglected this stricture to our nation’s great detriment. The idea of democratizing the Middle East is an utterly preposterous waste of time, money and lives. These issues should have at least been openly debated.

I know Ron Paul’s followers are truthers, but has he himself been so tainted? If so, this alone would negate all the good that he has attempted to bring about. Ron Paul’s an easy target because of his demeanor and the types he attracts but he does deserve a close hearing.

Third, we are at war with Islamic jihad – pure and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fourth, we cannot destroy the enemy for he is more than 1 billion people. We can only sequester and isolate the enemy, become energy dependent (through oil exploration and drilling, nuclear power, tax credits for alternative energy research and expansion of our use of our abundant coal and oil shale.

Fifth, there is no inconsistency between agreeing with the need to invade Iraq and achieve our narrowly defined MILITARY objectives and disagreeing the Bush’s nation building agenda which is neoconservative rubbish and would require a congressional declaration of war.

Me, I am a paleoconservative who believes in limited government as defined by our constitution. I believe in the accumulated wisdom of our culture and traditions. I believe that Western Civilization (not in its current multicultural incarnation) represents the pinnacle of human achievement. I believe we should be proud of our cultural achievements and make apologies to no one.

You shouldn’t argue, you’re not good at it.

Anyone who refers to me or Paul as a leftist is a tard.

RP was never against earmarks. Pretty dumb of you to say that. You should probably understand your opponents arguments.

Setting hundreds of thousands of christian troops in to a muslim holy land is much more reckless than “piracy.”

RP does a reverse-Kerry “I was against earmarks before I was for them.”

Then of course there are the “Letters of Marque and Reprisal.” RP gladly advocates using privateers (mercenaries). Rather then send in the Marines RP would prefer to use his doctoral skills to resurrect Francis Drake. The reason the rest of the House of Representatives ignored his introduction of the Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001 (twice) is because saw it for what it was, authorizing piracy. RP’s logic on this one issue is baffling as Letters of Marque and Reprisal have been abolished by the rest of the civilized world since 1856.

Jimmy Liberty on May 3, 2008 at 9:04 PM

Ah, I see. Well if he does believe it, I think he is wrong. War itself is an occasional necessity. Abdication of liberty for the prosecution of a war, or under the guise of war is something altogether. I would gauge his thinking sloppy if he didn’t distinguish between the two.

Regardless, thanks for the chat. Enjoy the balance of your evening.

There are four people on the panel including Michael Scheuer.

It’s called “The New Yorker Festival: Winning the War on Terror: The Ethical Dilemmas”

Common ideas have no weight because they are common. It does not make them either correct or intelligent. Again: why are liberties subject to violation under war?

I was mentioning it was common because you seemed to doubt that he could really think such a thing. He does and many people do. I didn’t attempt to defend the position because that would take a lot of typing, and I’m wiped out.

It’s a common idea that ‘war is the health of the state.’ Meaning liberties are always under threat during war time. And that the term “war on terror” is purposely used so that it doesn’t end with Iraq or Afghanistan.

Common ideas have no weight because they are common. It does not make them either correct or intelligent. Again: why are liberties subject to violation under war? I argue that is an anti-thesis statement of our Revolution, and the Civil War, undeniably after a certain point, became in part of war of expanding liberty.

The preamble of our Constitution elaborates on the very reasons of the existence of our government. It is inane to claim on one hand that we need to follow the Constitution, and then on the other deride war – which is a function of “provide for the common defense”.

I don’t like the nomenclature either. Does war with Al Qaeda suit you better? That would though imply we will fight it wherever it is – and that is more places then Iraq and Afghanistan.

Most of his platform is considered radical, why would he suddenly appeal to the populace on this issue?

Good point. My answer would be for reasons of economics, but I certainly acknowledge you make a good point there.

Really? How does the war on terror threaten liberty?

It’s a common idea that ‘war is the health of the state.’ Meaning liberties are always under threat during war time. And that the term “war on terror” is purposely used so that it doesn’t end with Iraq or Afghanistan.

That means, simply, it not an ideal, but he will accommodate the views of the populace on this issue.

It’s not pandering when you tell them how you really feel. The reason he could be against ‘free flow’ is because of the situation we currently have… such as giving away welfare to illegals which he is against. Not just populace opinion.

Most of his platform is considered radical, why would he suddenly appeal to the populace on this issue?