I can’t take him, even if he is more beatable than Hillary

I visualize Rev Wright spewing and my systems lock down. It is an uncontrollable reflex.

Snake307 on May 4, 2008 at 6:37 AM

Know what?

Ronald Reagan was the greatest leader of my lifetime. He had a vision and a plan, he stuck to it, he communicated it to the people of the US, and he defeated the Soviet Union.

But he also bugged out of Lebanon and in the doing emboldened the very enemy we now face.

And that’s my problem with your diatribe above. People are human. No one ever gets it right all the time and it’s easy to sit on the sidelines and look into history and offer up perfection as an alternative.

Problem is that in real life, it never is.

Peggy Noonan has lost her mind. I stopped reading her when she said that Bush had destroyed the Republican party.

I was reading over at Rasmussens that the party ID gives the Democrats a 10 point advantage over the Republicans, even with these two representing the Democrats. I have to admit, I just do not get it.

I think most people are tired of the war and just want it to go away and they are pissed about the price of gas. That is about as political as a lot of folks ever get.

I think some people thought immigration would be a big winner for them in 2006, but they were wrong largely because they were too strident. I understand how they felt, but the only thing a lot of that accomplished was to hurt George Bush. People can complain about him all they want, he is the Republican President and backstabbing the Republican president does not usually help Republicans. It just does not work that way.

That does not mean they can not disagree, but there are respectful ways to do it. And the same holds true with McCain.

Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 11:03 PM

No, it wasn’t the immigration issue in 06, at least not the getting tough with immigration. The politicians who pushed tough on illegals won their elections. 06 was a lot of things, but it wasn’t immigration. It was Duke Cunningham, war hero, ace fighter pilot, and convicted as a corrupt politician. It was the audacity of the Republicans to campaign as conservatives, and then govern as liberals. It was the Real ID act, Bankruptcy Reform, the abuses of the PATRIOT ACT, and the PATRIOT ACT details.

The Republicans campaigned on fiscal responsibility, and promptly forgot it when they were in charge. Go back to 1994 and the Contract with America. Those were the ideals that got the Republicans elected in the first place, and those principals left the party about fifteen minutes after they got elected. We waited, and had to keep writing and telling them to get their minds right on the issues. We had to twist arms to keep them even pretending to notice the right.

It was a thousand things, the Republicans lost in 06, death by a thousand paper cuts. It was disgust at the entitlement attitude, which is even now affecting staunch Republican districts like Alaska. The people are sick of the “I’m the elected official you worthless peasants” mentality that is literally oozing from too many elected officials, and it’s not just the Republicans, it’s the Democrats too.

However, the Republicans were elected by the base for the most part. The Base that failed to turn out and support them in 06, because the Washington Elite got to the mentality that we Conservatives and the Christians were just going to show up and vote Republican because it was time to do that.

We got tired of the stalling, and we got tired of the obfuscation. Here’s the sad truth, Americans will forgive an honest mistake. We will generally speaking. If you turn right because your GPS told you to turn right, not noticing that it was a one way street going the other way, we’ll forgive you with a minor slap on the wrist. Especially if no one gets hurt.

The WMD Iraq issue. Hell, you were hard pressed to find someone in 2003 who didn’t think that Iraq had WMD’s. We all thought it, and when it became obvious that there were none to be found, the thing to do is go public and outline why you thought they had it and why you were wrong. The people would have forgiven Bush. I was arguing at the time that Intelligence work is like trying to figure out what a jigsaw puzzle picture is going to be when you are missing about half the damn pieces. You do the best you can with what you have.

I love Condi Rice, she’s a brilliant woman who’s way smarter than I am. Hell she’s smarter than any ten people I know combined. She’s an honorable woman who will work tirelessly for this nation, and this administration, in that order.

I admired Attorney General Gonzalez. Another real smart fellow. I could list more but you get the point. For a bunch of smart, and I mean real smart people, why couldn’t one of them say we need to go public and tell the American People we screwed up? Is the idea that fantastic?

“I did the best I could, made the best decision I could, with the information I had at hand. After 9-11, I felt it was more important to error on the side of protecting American interests, and American lives, than worrying that Saddam may not be the total embodiment of Evil. It turns out he was only 95% evil.” Then run down the charges against him that were proven to be true, and outline where they were in the Powell Presentation.

They didn’t do that. Instead, they took us for granted and continued to do stupid things like push Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants. Then McCain and the Bush administration took a page from the Liberals, and called everyone who opposed Amnesty, which was more than sixty percent of the nation, racists. Talk about audacity. That’s the literal definition of audacious. Calling a majority of the nation, and people who have supported you faithfully in the past, racist because they don’t see the reason why every twenty years we have to do Amnesty all over again for the next batch of illegal immigrants is audacity at it’s utmost.

The War in Iraq wasn’t going well, and sometimes that happens. We understand that. So when you run into a brick wall, you look at the wall and see if there is another way around, over, or through.

Bush said we’re staying just the way we are. No changes. Period. Now you don’t change plans when one day goes bad, but months later you got to be thinking it’s time.

It was time, right after the election. Then it’s time to do what almost eighty percent of the nation had been calling for months ago, a change in plans in Iraq. Then we had to have a surge, and equipment upgrades, and changes in our structure and organization. Well hell, why didn’t you do that ten months ago, or even six months ago?

I was in the military, and I know better than most that sometimes, soldiers die. It’s the risk we take. Fine, however don’t we have a moral obligation to spend each life as though it’s the precious commodity that we pretend it is? If we do, then Bush admitted he spent how many lives trying to keep from looking weak or mistaken in his plans?

It’s one thing to make a mistake from good intentions. That’s forgivable and understandable. I tried to do it the best I could is something the people would generally understand. I let people die for the last six months because I didn’t want to look like a wussy isn’t quite as forgivable. Then when you do change, the very next day, you look like a complete jackass.

Bush had the writing put on the wall in 06, the writing said the same thing that the voices had been saying. Pull it together, and do the right thing, do your best. He did it, right after the election, when it was too late to help the Republicans maintain any power.

I love our troops, was once one of them. I don’t think I was terribly afraid, because I had faith in my leaders, and my commanders. Faith that they were honestly doing their very best. Perhaps not perfectly, but the very best they could. No one could ever ask any more from any man or woman on earth, than they do the best they can. You can make a mistake doing that, and it’s sort of understood that you failed while trying, you went down swinging, or whatever. If you aren’t doing the best you can, then that’s a little harder to forgive.

So yes, I’m a little disgusted with Bush. Yes, I’m disgusted with McCain and his McAmnesty, and his McCampaign Finance BS. I’m disgusted with his McGlobal McWarming McNonsense. Show me the science, and so far you haven’t been able to, all you’ve been able to do is show me the conclusions, and then swear there’s consensus. Consensus means everybody knows, therefor it’s true. Everybody knew the earth was flat too didn’t they? They knew that the sound barrier would kill a man, you couldn’t get through it.

no offense to anyone else…;-)

windansea on May 3, 2008 at 9:20 PM

Here’s a surprise, I agree. The closest Republican congressman we have is not my district, I’m in John Barrow (D) district, and yes, I voted for Max Burns, even though I knew he was a crook because he was a Republican.

Back to the Local Republican Congressman. Jack Kingston got a million dollar earmark for a company that was under investigation for, misappropriating taxpayer funds.

I have said I’m a Conservative, and regarding Fiscal Issues, I’m certainly hard core. I think Congress should come in under the budget every year. I think it could happen, and I think it never will. I think the President could end a lot of this by pardoning every man and woman for all tax related crimes if Congress doesn’t change the hundred thousand pages of tax laws into something average people can understand and manage without a law degree. The tax form should be so simple that a sixth grader could do the math, instead it’s so complex that the only people who understand it are the tax lawyers hired by the rich and shameless, which is exactly the reason it’s so convoluted.

I think nuclear power should be extensively used, especially if you’re in favor of the asinine theory of Man Made Global Warming. It produces no carbon dioxide, or other greenhouse gases. Instead, even when we had the majority, we slid on that issue too. Oh sure, we had a vote on a bill, and then threw our hands up and said. Sorry, that’s what we can do for you. Cheap and efficient electricity is not available, instead you’ll just have to deal with it.

So yeah, I’m pissed at the Republicans. The only thing they managed to do was take care of the Credit Card Companies with Bankruptcy reform, which applies to individuals, but not companies. Companies still get to write off the debt, including retirement plans, in bankruptcy court. Good for the goose, not so good for the gander though. We passed the national ID card and called it the Real ID act. Now, if my state doesn’t comply, I’ll need a passport to board a plane flying domestic. Yeah, great plan there guys.

The Republicans haven’t governed as Conservatives, but pretend to be conservative come election time. I’m tired of being suckered. McCain is going to raise our taxes sure as the sun rises in the east. He voted against the tax cuts after all, and that was because it was too generous to the rich folks. They earned that money too, you didn’t John.

So I’m not supporting the Republicans, because they aren’t conservative. I’m not supporting John McCain because he’s not a conservative, he’s a liberal. He’s as conservative as he had to be to keep getting re-elected in Arizona. He’s as liberal as he could get away with in other words. Give him a chance, he’ll show us all how liberal he can be to get the NY Times writing fluff pieces about him again.

No, I’m not falling for the hype this election. I know that no matter who wins the White House we’re going to surrender in Iraq, McCain will just as fast if not faster than Clinton or Obama. I know that taxes are going to go up, McCain will do it with wide Bi-Partisan support. I also know that more socialism will be here, especially under McCain’s Global Warming nonsense.

Tell me again about the difference that my vote can make? I can have a Democrat, or a Democrat wrapped in an R in the White House. Gee, that sounds like a fun choice.

How about None of the Above.

Is this just calcified Clinton hatred among Republicans manifesting itself (i.e. anyone but Hillary) or has the Prince of Peace actually sold them on his “post-partisan, so long as I get to continue to vote liberal” shtick?

More of the former than the latter.

Personally, I don’t share it. I’d gladly take a Hillary presidency over an Obama one, any day of the week. ANY day.

And I would HATE to have a Hillary presidency. I just find the possibility of an even BIGGER leftist socialist than her in the White House to be terrified.

Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 9:46 PM

No we are not dealing with the people at Gitmo, if we were this would not even be a topic of discussion.

We aren’t dealing with the people at Gitmo? We have them locked up in a military prison. We’re interrogating them. We’re letting the ones we think are not a threat go.

And McCain wants to take them from a military prison in Gitmo and bring them to the US and put them in a military prison, and that’s dealing with them? In addition to giving them rights to which they are not entitled, how is that dealing with them when keeping them in a military prison at Gitmo is not dealing with them?

And in case you had not noticed, Reagan is dead. He ran for president almost 40 years ago. Lincoln was a great president, but I do not think that running on abolition would get you anywhere today. And besides, there were a lot of conservatives who did not like Reagan, they thought he was an exDemocrat movie star who could not be trusted. Btw, I know a lot of people in rural America who consider the days of Reagan to be a bad memory. Not even Reagan was universally loved.

Man oh man. Reagan is indeed dead. Are the principles he espoused dead also? Which principles that he espoused are as irrelevant as abolition? Smaller government? Lower taxes? American exceptionalism? The belief that our best days are ahead of us?

Those conservatives might have thought he was an ex-Democrat movie star who could not be trusted, but surely they saw lots of evidence to the contrary?

Why do these people in rural America consider the days of Reagan to be a bad memory? Lower taxes? Winning the Cold War? Fixing stagflation? I might buy the argument that people in metropolitan America consider those days to be a bad memory, but rural America?

Reagan wasn’t universally loved, I agree, though a 49 state landslide, I submit, is very close to universal love. We don’t need someone who is universally loved. And that’s not one of my criteria.

And there are people on the left who really believe they love this country too

Of course there are people who advocate bad policies with the best of intentions. I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about those that hate America. Like Wright and Ayers and Dohrn. And a raft of others, Code Pink, etc., who do not have a parallel on the Right. The far Left has no parallel on the Right, that I can see.

And no, windansea, I’m not saying vote for Democrats, tough guy; I’ll vote for McCain. But please, don’t try to convince me that McCain is a conservative. And don’t try to assert, without proof, that conservatives are out of touch or that someone in the mold of Reagan would be a loser.

Call me silly, but when I compare this guy to someone like Rush Limbaugh who makes his living talking…it seems to me that McCain is the tougher of the two. But it seems that to many conservatives today someone like Limbaugh is the guy to idolize, not the man who stood up to the torture and still thought this country was worth standing up for.

OK, you’re silly. Not sure what tough has to do with it, but I’ll bet that Limbaugh could take McCain in a fight, if that’s what you’re saying: Limbaugh is about 55, McCain is 71ish, and Limbaugh isn’t physically disabled. See how silly?

We aren’t looking for a boxer. We’re looking for a President. And you don’t have to idolize Limbaugh to see that he espouses conservative principles and McCain, in a lot of instances, does not. If you have a coherent philosophy, you don’t do that. If you don’t have a coherent philosophy, you’re a wild card. And McCain has a reputation for being a wild card. And I don’t mean that in a good way.

So, Typhoon: some amount of people in America ARE static in the sense that they will NOT vote for Hillary under any circumstance. And she’s going to alienate the blacks, and the liberal intellectuals, and gain on that statistic? Democrats need that 90-92% of the black vote. None of them will defect, or sit home? Her negatives with the general electorate have been dropping? I’d like to see those numbers.

Perhaps. But the people who amuse me around here are those who seem absolutely certain in the infallibility of themselves and their own personal crystal balls.

I’m not among them.

me niether, I’m just being cocky to see if I can draw out a few a the poseurs here

I do think that Hillary can win in NC.

not likely but it is possible

I think that if she does she’ll get the Dem nomination, and if she does, she’ll beat McCain.

this is my strongest nightmare scenario

Yeah, yeah, I know about the black vote but if she offers him the number two spot and he takes it, then she’s obviously got them.

you are correct here

If he doesn’t take it, then she tried, she’s got until November to mend fences, and he’s either got to have a valid reason for his refusal and campaign for her in any event, or he’s done for in that party. So as I said initially, I don’t think you can project today into the future.

And on that note, I’ll leave you to your vary obvious and fulsome pride in yourself.

yes, I’ve been cocky here, but not because of posters like you

‘Night.

Typhoon on May 3, 2008 at 11:25 PM

The dems commit suicide if they give the nod to Hillary, they cannot win without the black vote

windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:57 PM

Perhaps. But the people who amuse me around here are those who seem absolutely certain in the infallibility of themselves and their own personal crystal balls.

I’m not among them.

I do think that Hillary can win in NC. I think that if she does she’ll get the Dem nomination, and if she does, she’ll beat McCain. Yeah, yeah, I know about the black vote but if she offers him the number two spot and he takes it, then she’s obviously got them. If he doesn’t take it, then she tried, she’s got until November to mend fences, and he’s either got to have a valid reason for his refusal and campaign for her in any event, or he’s done for in that party. So as I said initially, I don’t think you can project today into the future.

And on that note, I’ll leave you to your vary obvious and fulsome pride in yourself.

‘Night.

Oh yeah, I know what you mean.

I think most people are tired of the war and just want it to go away and they are pissed about the price of gas. That is about as political as a lot of folks ever get.

I think some people thought immigration would be a big winner for them in 2006, but they were wrong largely because they were too strident. I understand how they felt, but the only thing a lot of that accomplished was to hurt George Bush. People can complain about him all they want, he is the Republican President and backstabbing the Republican president does not usually help Republicans. It just does not work that way.

That does not mean they can not disagree, but there are respectful ways to do it. And the same holds true with McCain.

Well I hope you’re right. You probably are. And I don’t think if she comes close it’ll be enough to stop Barry. But I do have a bad feeling about it

.

The dems commit suicide if they give the nod to Hillary, they cannot win without the black vote

Windandsea:

I like you.

And I put McCain higher than that too. I am 56 years old, I will be 57 by the time the election comes about. I remember John McCain coming home. I can even remember seeing him try to salute when he could not lift his arms. Call me silly, but when I compare this guy to someone like Rush Limbaugh who makes his living talking…it seems to me that McCain is the tougher of the two. But it seems that to many conservatives today someone like Limbaugh is the guy to idolize, not the man who stood up to the torture and still thought this country was worth standing up for.

Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 10:39 PM

it’s mutual, I read pixels like a dog, there are several faux conservatives here who read like saranwrap, all talk and no walk, whenever I take a dump on them they run for cover

easy to figure out why

Hillary is not going to win NC

windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:30 PM

Well I hope you’re right. You probably are. And I don’t think if she comes close it’ll be enough to stop Barry. But I do have a bad feeling about it.

I think the right has been slapping itself on the back and making assinine ‘pass the popcorn’ remarks for way too long now. You kill the monster when you have the chance. You keep it alive at your own idiotic peril.

Barry always polls better than he performs, and I’ve got this gut feeling that the big story come Tuesday is that the wheels have come off his wagon, and there’s Hillary, cackling and coming to the rescue of hard-working families everywhere.

Believe me though, I would love to be wrong.

I like you.

And I put McCain higher than that too. I am 56 years old, I will be 57 by the time the election comes about. I remember John McCain coming home. I can even remember seeing him try to salute when he could not lift his arms. Call me silly, but when I compare this guy to someone like Rush Limbaugh who makes his living talking…it seems to me that McCain is the tougher of the two. But it seems that to many conservatives today someone like Limbaugh is the guy to idolize, not the man who stood up to the torture and still thought this country was worth standing up for.

I am quite sure the majority of people here are on the same page.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being best); Obama is a 1, Hillary is a 2 and McCain is a 3.

Whoop-de-do for us.

EJDolbow on May 3, 2008 at 10:30 PM

I’ll give him a 4 or 5, otherwise agree

I think that’s a pretty plausible scenario if she beats him in NC.

Hillary is not going to win NC

They are going to nominate Obama and the rest is Dukakis

McCain is not perfect but I’m ready and willing to debate anyone here on the relative merits of the candidates

so far I hear crickets

windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:26 PM

I am quite sure the majority of people here are on the same page.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being best); Obama is a 1, Hillary is a 2 and McCain is a 3.

Whoop-de-do for us.

I think you are probably right.

Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 10:12 PM

of course I am, once someone like me with true convictions steps into a thread, the cockroaches disappear, people who have the best interests for the USA are easily identified

McCain is not perfect but I’m ready and willing to debate anyone here on the relative merits of the candidates

so far I hear crickets

And you too, Typhoon. Hillary started the campaign with about 45-50% of America saying they wouldn’t vote for her under any circumstances. Then she’s going to steal the nomination from Barry (the ONLY way she can get the nomination is to steal it; Barry WILL have more pledged delegates going into the convention), alienate a significant portion of Democrats’ most loyal bloc, and improve that number?

misterpeasea on May 3, 2008 at 9:28 PM

Well, all of you folks that assume this idiotic idea of propping up Hillary is a good idea often offer up numbers like that as if they were static, which they never are.

If Barry carries NC then he probably does get the Dem nod, but if he doesn’t, then it will be obvious that he can’t win the general.

And if that happens then all the scenario peddling about stealing the nomination and blacks staying home will be nonsense. Plus Hillary can still put him on the ticket, or at least offer him the second slot. Then either he takes it and they’re all plastic smiles and unity, or he turns it down and hey, she tried.

I think that’s a pretty plausible scenario if she beats him in NC.

And if that happens, then she’s transformed herself. One unintended consequence of this whole drawn-on campaign is that she’s become a much better candidate. So much so that if Barry does beat her and takes a drubbing in the fall, we can count on seeing her again in ’12. If he’d put her away early, she’d be such damaged goods that wouldn’t happen.

But in any event, her negatives with the general electorate have been dropping. And if she wins in Indiana and NC, then her story changes. She’s the “fighter” the Dems can turn to. She’s a better debater than Obama. She can take and throw punches with McCain.

And, I think there’s a possibility that she may somewhere along in there energize to vote a bunch of women who after all thuis see in her a woman who was left for dead and reborn, and who they want ‘fighting for them.’

I’m not saying it will happen. But it damn sure can. It’d be the way I’d bet if I had to is she wins in NC.

And it didn’t have to happen. Barry was a ticking time bomb, a combination of Michael Dukakis and Howard Dean. There was never any way he was riding the Obamamania wave into the White House.

They are everywhere!!

Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 10:04 PM

not really, just some prolific proles trying to influence the debate

I’m confident that rational readers outnumber the kooks 100 to 1, or more