Gallup: Republicans would rather see Hillary nominated than Obama, 48-44
posted at 5:00 pm on May 3, 2008 by Allahpundit
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A belated answer to yesterday’s exit question. Do note the dates on which the sample was taken: April 18-20, a week before Pastorgate reached full flower. I wonder what the numbers look like now.
This graph is depressing, though. I can understand preferring Obama because you think Hillary’s easier to beat — I’m of the same opinion, albeit less convinced with each passing day — but preferring him because you’re more worried about a Clinton presidency than an Obama one? Anyone willing/able to explain that? He’s the more principled leftist, as near as we can tell; he’s certainly more dovish than she is. Is this just calcified Clinton hatred among Republicans manifesting itself (i.e. anyone but Hillary) or has the Prince of Peace actually sold them on his “post-partisan, so long as I get to continue to vote liberal” shtick?

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I think Obama is weaker now then Hillary, but regardless, as to the question: Obama is inexperienced politically and can perhaps be less effective with the power as Clinton, who has had it both her personal orbit and her ambitions. I don’t claim that to be the case, but it has crossed my mind.
Spirit of 1776 on May 3, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Peggy Noonan likes Barak Obama – apparently some Republicans are drinking the Kool-Aid too. I cannot figure it out!!
HawaiiLwyr on May 3, 2008 at 5:12 PM
I’d like to see this poll done today or a week from now. I agree that Obama’s electability, at least of of today (who knows what the summer will bring – people have a short memory sometimes) is fading. Inexperienced or not, I think the real danger with Obama is his potential effectiveness as a leader, a true American leftist revolutionary. The bloom may be slightly off the rose, but the Obama kool-aid is still pretty potent.
My fear is not what he’ll do or get done, it’s what kind of followers his election will create.
Hannibal Smith on May 3, 2008 at 5:15 PM
Well, the upside of a Clinton presidency is that we New Yorkers get a new senator.
I hear Spitzer is available….
meep on May 3, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Both, it seems to me, plus Republicans loudly wanting it to be known that if it must be a Democrat they’re not at all opposed to it being a black guy. But especially the second one: even people who probably won’t vote for him are falling for his schtick.
Alex K on May 3, 2008 at 5:21 PM
If it was Hussein vs Hellary with pistols at 15 paces I’d have no rooting interest.
Akzed on May 3, 2008 at 5:22 PM
I must be an optimist. I picked the candidate I want us to beat, not the candidate I want to beat us.
daryl_herbert on May 3, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Peggy Noonan has lost her mind. I stopped reading her when she said that Bush had destroyed the Republican party. The woman acts like a scorned lover or something.
I may not like Hillary Clinton and I will not vote for her, but we did live through a Clinton administration, we survived. I am not so sure what would happen if Barack Obama becomes president. Domestically and foreign policy wise the man scares the bejeezus out of me.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Ir doesn’t matter who the Dems “select” in the smoke filled back room with the super delegates..
Neither one of them Hillary or Obama can even unite the Democrat Party, BOTH of them are Extremists in what has become , an Extremist party, a Party that has been hijacked by the FAR FAR LEFT…
People like Zell Miller, and Joe Lieberman are kicked out the Democrat party today..
Chakra Hammer on May 3, 2008 at 5:25 PM
The Middle is “Center-Right” and will be deciding this election.. They will be rejecting the Extreme Liberal positions that either Hillary or Obama will be proposing
Chakra Hammer on May 3, 2008 at 5:27 PM
My comment from this item in the “Headlines” Section:
malan89 on May 3, 2008 at 5:27 PM
There’s still a camp that thinks that to get another Reagan, we need another Carter first. Someone to really screw things up, so that the 2012 Republican wins by a landslide.
Not the majority of them, obviously, but maybe still a fair chunk of that number.
Tanya on May 3, 2008 at 5:33 PM
I am not so sure we can count on the whole Reagan thing. That was more than 20 years ago, the electorate has changed.
I was reading over at Rasmussens that the party ID gives the Democrats a 10 point advantage over the Republicans, even with these two representing the Democrats. I have to admit, I just do not get it. Maybe it is the war, maybe it is free trade. I don’t know, but we can not count on the electorate to be so put off by Obama that they elect a conservative. I think it is more likely that the Republicans could find themselves in the minority for a long long time.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Hillary can win, folks.
Not only can she, but if she wins North Carolina, I’ll put my marker down that she will. All the way. Barry’s always been beatable. In a way, he was the best thing that happened to the GOP because he came along and derailed the Hillary Express with a song and a dance and a show that never was going to have staying power.
But of course we couldn’t let that happen. No. Not us. We had to be too f**king clever by way over half and keep her in the race.
So now she’s Rocky. IIf she upends Barry in NC then all those independents and Reagan Democrats will see her as a “fighter.” And those legions of women I don’t think would have bothered before just might bother now that her plucky and indomitable self never said die and kept on fighting when all there was was against her. Just the kind of President we need, fightin’ for us in these difficult times.
“Operation Chaos.”
More like reap what you sow.
I just hope Barry hangs on in NC.
Typhoon on May 3, 2008 at 5:50 PM
I think Typhoon has a point. That Operation Chaos thing might just bite us in the ass. Like it or not, Hillary is more popular than Rush Limbaugh. I think she has a real shot at this. If she can get past her own party.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 6:06 PM
While all you popcorn people are waiting for Denver I’ll be over at the bar getting ready for the next four years.
Limerick on May 3, 2008 at 6:20 PM
I am a full blooded hard core conservative. I’d like the Government to be about half the size it is now. I’d like welfare and unemployment to be tied to retraining and job skills programs. I’d like the Military to be using bullets made in Israel and coated in pig fat in Iraq. I’d like to wrap the bodies of terrorists in pork skins and have pig blood poured upon them in the graves.
I’d rather have Hillary in the White House, than McCain or Obama. It’s a toss up as to the Obama or McCain choice.
McCain is no friend to Conservatives, and too unpredictable and unstable to be entrusted with the Presidency.
Snake307 on May 3, 2008 at 6:38 PM
I don’t like McCain either, but at least he won’t surrender in Iraq. I’d really like to know your logic behind liking Hillary better than Obama.
malan89 on May 3, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Primary turnout:
Dems 30m
Reps 07m
But it is CROSSOVERS! Yeah? What 10%? Fine…
Dems 27m
Reps 10m
But we don’t have a reason to go to the polls yet! Yeah? What 50%? (I’ll even give you the 10% above)…Fine…
Dems 27m
Reps 15m
But the Dems are disaffected! They won’t vote for the other guy! Yeah? What? 25% of Dems?…..Fine…+ the crossovers + the Rep stay at homes.
Dems 21.25m
Reps 15 m
But the disaffected Dems will vote for McCain! Yeah? What?
10%? Fine…….
Dems 21.25m
Reps 17.7 m
This is the pregnant lady in the room. Nobody talks about it except to say it’s ok, the Dems are screwed. Unless John McCain throws OSLs body up on the capitol steps between now and November we are in serious trouble.
Limerick on May 3, 2008 at 6:42 PM
Hillary’s ability to win in November depends on either an Obama meltdown so severe that Hillary’s winning of the nomination doesn’t alienate African-American voters to the point they refuse to turn out to vote for her in swing states, or her general election campaign is able to turn McCain into a Bull Conner-like racist figure who scares African-American voters to the polls for Hillary in November (she could also be helped by outside factors, such as the price of gas come October or the severity of the fall hurricane season, but an African-American boycott of Clinton in places like Philadelphia, Detroit or the major cities in Florida or Ohio would be deadly for Hillary’s chances).
jon1979 on May 3, 2008 at 6:43 PM
Completely agree. The only way the subject is broached is under the topic of fu-raising and as it is dismissed, this is also in conjunction.
It’s an excellent point you make.
I’m not sure there is evidence any of them will surrender in Iraq. Obama’s rhetoric doesn’t match his intent (see. S.Powers) and Clinton will do whatever is political expedient, which due to the surge, currently is stay and finish.
Spirit of 1776 on May 3, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Maybe it was the Paulites skewing the poll?
andycanuck on May 3, 2008 at 7:08 PM
But yes,Republicans would also perfer that flying monkey’s
would stay in their lanes when flying!
Hillary has a track record of nasty things that happen to
people of the opposite political divide,like Moonlit walks!
Hillary likes to run the whole operation,yet when it hit’s
the fan,it seems they really can’t find out who’s in charge
(Like Gregg Livingstone,White House Secruity,anybody yet find out who hired him)
Hillary likes to have quality time with miising FBI Files!
National Secruity,Bill dropped the ball on OBL,do you think
Hillary was baking cookies unaware,this is where her experience probable comes in,sitting in on meeting’s at the
time,unelected,unaccountable!
And really,How can she be TRUSTED!
Obama Barrack,NO EXPERIENCE,full of HYPE and HOPE!
Obama is going to mistakes,no Foreign Policy experience!
Obama has ZERO(0)Military service,experience!
Obama is about Race Politics!
Obama is new,and untested,A disaster for managing the
War On Terror!
So all in all,Obama and Hillary,its a dangerous crap shoot
Politically for either one to get near the Oval Office!
Hillary has no experience,too much prior baggage,so to speak
Obama is going to play the Race Card.If the whole Liberal Party gets caught up in Hope and Change and become mesmerize
with their own candidate,then it’ll be a horse race,(no pun
intended for todays Kentucky Derby!).
canopfor on May 3, 2008 at 7:11 PM
Nothing Conservative about the BS you type.
Chakra Hammer on May 3, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Hillary just follows the polling data, so I think she would scale back the troops in Iraq VERY signifigantly. And then change her mind three months later when Iraq gets even more FUBAR and have a massive redeployment back to Iraq. As for Obama…I don’t think Samantha Powers speaks for Obama (and, more importantly, the collation of MoveOn liberals he has around him) and I do think he will full out surrender in Iraq. This guy IS the next Carter and I think the Obama you’re seeing in the campaign is far less liberal than the Obama that will govern.
malan89 on May 3, 2008 at 7:34 PM
It’s not so much what Hillary, Obama or even McCain will do as it is what the key people below them will do. McCain’s been strong on his support for action in Iraq from the outset, Hillary’s waffled all over the place depending on the latest poll numbers while Obama has been steadfast in his opposition, even if some of his advisers have hinted that he’s blowing smoke on the withdrawal plan.
If you could be assured that all of the people under Obama, and all those hoping for jobs in a Hillary administration, thought the same way, there wouldn’t be a problem. But there really are people out there supporting the two Democratic candidates who believe this stuff, or believe that the threat of international terrorism has been overblown by the Bush Administration for its own political gain. Those are the ones who can screw things up behind the scenes without anyone paying close attention.
In the wake of Sept. 11, reports came out that it was Clinton Justice Department appointee Jamie Gorelick who made sure the FBI and CIA couldn’t share information on terrorism, leading to the breakdown in communications before the Sept. 11 attacks, an action that didn’t require any direct involvement of the president. An Obama Administration on a Hillary Administration could put a lot more Jaime Gorelicks into the system.
jon1979 on May 3, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Anyone who calls himself a conservative and thinks Hillary is better than McCain must be smoking something. McCain has an 88% rating as a Conservative. Hillary and Obama both have a rating in the high 90’s as liberal. This is exactly why Republicans always lose the majority after a couple of years. Their right decides that if they can not have exactly what they want when they want it and the way they want it, then screw everybody else.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 7:57 PM
And I think that the Democrats will up and leave Iraq to go to hell in a handbasket if they think they can blame it all on Bush and the Republicans. It is not as if they give a damn about winning the war, the only thing they want to win is the White House.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 8:00 PM
And just look at their attitude toward the entire war on terror and the surveillance programs etc. They think the war is a bumper sticker.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 8:01 PM
Their only enemy is US.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 8:03 PM
That’s well-said about the undercarriage. I hadn’t thought of it.
Okay. Let me put it this way. If Pres. Bush is successful in establishing a long-term strategic alliance with Iraq it will have the effect, or a similar effect I should say, of a treaty that would require troops in Iraq. Which is to say, it seems highly likely to me that the next President will have little or no room to maneuver on the issue of Iraq when they take office.
A secondary point, which I’ve said before, I think the only thing more desired by (politicians) Democrats then defeat in Iraq is victory in Iraq on their watch. If they can take credit, success is preferred.
Much referred to, unfortunately however, a number that been on the decline, not the rise. Which is to say, that the future of his political tenure is certain to continue on his evolving trend. I wouldn’t care so much if he were not especially conservative. My concerns are in that his non-conservative views collide full-steam with either the Constitution or national sovereignty. He maybe the best of the three, but that doesn’t make him welcomed, 88% or no.
Spirit of 1776 on May 3, 2008 at 8:08 PM
Let us get down to basics:
Who is the weakest of the three candidates?
Who is most likely to gin up oppositional negativity (and coincidental support) that favors the weakest of the three candidates, without risk of racist flame-throwing?
Who might have so incurred the wrath of the MSM by refusing to bow to the inevitability of the messiah that she might not enjoy their wholehearted support vs. a candidate who has historically bobbleheaded at their demand?
Who will be least likely to make the the weakest of the three candidates seem 300 years old in a televised debate?
Yes, she can!
Nichevo on May 3, 2008 at 8:18 PM
Very simple, the arguments for McCain over the other Democrats is the War on Terror, and the Supreme Court. I’ll deal with the court first.
John McCain has said he would appoint conservatives, just not Conservatives like Alito who wore their conservativism on their sleeves. Oh, and not like Roberts who was too openly religious. So we’ll get a nominee like Harriet Myers, if we’re lucky.
For the war on Terror, I don’t think McCain will stay true on that one. I personally think he’s going to ruin us in it. He’s already said he’s going to close Gitmo. How long before our troops are reading the Miranda warning on the battlefield? I think he’ll sacrafice Iraq, and give up there when the Democrats who will put forth a resolution that will pass give him a “wide bipartisan support” cover for his surrender.
I’ve learned from watching McCain for the last ten years, you can’t trust him, not even a little. He revels in his reputation as a Maverick. I don’t trust him to be a friend, and I’m certain that the Republicans will back him, and not view him as an enemy. He views us about the same as the other Democrats. Just as elite, just as much a Czarist Prince as the others.
I don’t want an ally I can’t trust. If I can’t have an ally I can trust, I’ll take an enemy I can fight against.
Snake307 on May 3, 2008 at 8:25 PM
Well you know what? Republicans voted for McCain in the primaries and so it seems that most Republicans think he is conservative enough for the nomination. If certain other people disagree, maybe they are the ones who are out of step.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 8:41 PM
Snake:
When the Supreme Court shot down the idea of military tribunals it was the much maligned Lindsay Graham and John McCain who wrote the legislation for the administration that was intended to meet the criteria of the courts. Sooner or later we are going to have to deal with the people at Gitmo. McCain has not called for their release or anything like it. He wants them in a military prison.
And as far as whether or not he can be trusted to stick with something, it seems to me that he has stuck with the war in Iraq when a lot of other people have wanted to bail and he somehow stuck with his honor and dignity inspite of years of torture and incarceration. That is not something some weak person would do.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 8:46 PM
And I have learned that there are people on the Right I can not trust. Even when they knew the president was facing a strong anti war movement they were willing to work alongside the Democrats to weaken him over some really silly stuff. I think the far right and the far left have a lot more in common with each other than with the rest of us.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 8:48 PM
Most people are uniformed and more interested in daily cares then the implications of political philosophy. A very good argument can then be made that those who do know and understand should not shirk their concerns or knowledge by comforting themselves with the ignorance of others. Regardless of party affiliation.
Spirit of 1776 on May 3, 2008 at 8:50 PM
I think you forgot about tax policy
Obama and Hillary are guaranteed (especially with a dem controlled congress) to raise income taxes, corporate taxes, capital gain taxes, death taxes, etc etc
McCain talks and walks on earmarks, and the only reason he voted against Bush tax extensions was because those “conservative” senators and congressman you purport to idolize were slurping at the trough like democrats, and didn’t want to cut spending.
You can diss McCain about immigration policy all you want, I’ll agree with you, but 2004 congressional losses were due to “conservative” pigs like Cunningham etc, not Iraq or WOT.
You’re probably a troll anyway, along with Stenwin (I got 2 turbos and McCains a traitor dude) and Valiant (name gives it away)
Enjoy the sucking sound of Hill/Obama tax increases on your paycheck
Neither of them can win anyway, if Hillary win the blacks and koskids boycott, if Obama its white flight a la Wright.
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 9:20 PM
A series of comments I’m having a hard time understanding:
I don’t understand. How has the electorate changed such that someone like Reagan couldn’t get elected? Because party ID now favors Democrats? In 1980, party ID favored Democrats about 50% to 35%. Remember the “Reagan Democrats”?
It would be so refreshing to have a candidate that had positive things to say about America, that believed in American exceptionalism, that was positive about the future, that thought the scariest words in the English language were “I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.”
I don’t understand this one either. We don’t have to worry about whether the electorate is so put off by Obama that they’d elect a conservative, because there are NO conservatives from which to choose.
And you too, Typhoon. Hillary started the campaign with about 45-50% of America saying they wouldn’t vote for her under any circumstances. Then she’s going to steal the nomination from Barry (the ONLY way she can get the nomination is to steal it; Barry WILL have more pledged delegates going into the convention), alienate a significant portion of Democrats’ most loyal bloc, and improve that number? (And who says she’s more popular than Rush?)
Ah. I see. You think McCain is a conservative. But this statistic is downright misleading. His most recent rating was 65. And on some really big issues, he’s an unabashed liberal: the 1st Amendment, global warming, immigration. And see Snake 307’s post for more piling on.
Another misleading statement. Some Republicans voted for McCain, of course. Not a majority, in any state that was contested. He won the nomination with Independents and Democrats. And self-identified conservatives were even less enthusiastic. So who is out of step, again?
We ARE dealing with them. They ARE in a military prison. Bringing them into the United States would confer all kinds of rights on them for which they do not qualify and do not deserve and similarly situated individuals have never gotten before. And John McCain knows this.
Can’t quite see this one, either. People on the “far Right,” no matter how far, love this country and want what is best for it. And people on the Right ostracize those far enough to be classified as loony. People on the “far Left” do not love this country and do not want what is best for it. And they are embraced by the “mainstream” Left. See, e.g., Obama and Ayers.
misterpeasea on May 3, 2008 at 9:28 PM
I would rather see Hillary nominated incase the Dems win the White House.
She is less crazy than Obama.
EJDolbow on May 3, 2008 at 9:30 PM
mister:
No we are not dealing with the people at Gitmo, if we were this would not even be a topic of discussion.
And in case you had not noticed, Reagan is dead. He ran for president almost 40 years ago. Lincoln was a great president, but I do not think that running on abolition would get you anywhere today. And besides, there were a lot of conservatives who did not like Reagan, they thought he was an exDemocrat movie star who could not be trusted. Btw, I know a lot of people in rural America who consider the days of Reagan to be a bad memory. Not even Reagan was universally loved.
And there are people on the left who really believe they love this country too and like some people on the right they are willing to elect someone they know sucks just to keep from giving an inch. That is the problem, we do not need the loons right now.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 9:46 PM
And besides what is the point in saying you can not vote for McCain because he wants to close Gitmo and put those men in a military prison, but you can vote for Hillary who will close Gitmo and probably put those men on a plane back home just to “restore” America’s reputation. It is silly.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 9:47 PM
right on Terrye, be advised that there are infidels inside the perimiter
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 9:50 PM
They are everywhere!!
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Again, once you remove yourself from our information saturation level here at HA and go to the ‘rest of the world’, where exposure to these two is in :30 soundbites of 3 AM hope and change, and the average R in the void will take ‘the devil I know’ rather than ‘the devil I don’t know’.
thirtypundit on May 3, 2008 at 10:05 PM
not really, just some prolific proles trying to influence the debate
I’m confident that rational readers outnumber the kooks 100 to 1, or more
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:08 PM
I think you are probably right.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Well, all of you folks that assume this idiotic idea of propping up Hillary is a good idea often offer up numbers like that as if they were static, which they never are.
If Barry carries NC then he probably does get the Dem nod, but if he doesn’t, then it will be obvious that he can’t win the general.
And if that happens then all the scenario peddling about stealing the nomination and blacks staying home will be nonsense. Plus Hillary can still put him on the ticket, or at least offer him the second slot. Then either he takes it and they’re all plastic smiles and unity, or he turns it down and hey, she tried.
I think that’s a pretty plausible scenario if she beats him in NC.
And if that happens, then she’s transformed herself. One unintended consequence of this whole drawn-on campaign is that she’s become a much better candidate. So much so that if Barry does beat her and takes a drubbing in the fall, we can count on seeing her again in ‘12. If he’d put her away early, she’d be such damaged goods that wouldn’t happen.
But in any event, her negatives with the general electorate have been dropping. And if she wins in Indiana and NC, then her story changes. She’s the “fighter” the Dems can turn to. She’s a better debater than Obama. She can take and throw punches with McCain.
And, I think there’s a possibility that she may somewhere along in there energize to vote a bunch of women who after all thuis see in her a woman who was left for dead and reborn, and who they want ‘fighting for them.’
I’m not saying it will happen. But it damn sure can. It’d be the way I’d bet if I had to is she wins in NC.
And it didn’t have to happen. Barry was a ticking time bomb, a combination of Michael Dukakis and Howard Dean. There was never any way he was riding the Obamamania wave into the White House.
Typhoon on May 3, 2008 at 10:25 PM
of course I am, once someone like me with true convictions steps into a thread, the cockroaches disappear, people who have the best interests for the USA are easily identified
McCain is not perfect but I’m ready and willing to debate anyone here on the relative merits of the candidates
so far I hear crickets
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:26 PM
I am quite sure the majority of people here are on the same page.
On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being best); Obama is a 1, Hillary is a 2 and McCain is a 3.
Whoop-de-do for us.
EJDolbow on May 3, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Hillary is not going to win NC
They are going to nominate Obama and the rest is Dukakis
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:30 PM
I’ll give him a 4 or 5, otherwise agree
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:32 PM
Windandsea:
I like you.
And I put McCain higher than that too. I am 56 years old, I will be 57 by the time the election comes about. I remember John McCain coming home. I can even remember seeing him try to salute when he could not lift his arms. Call me silly, but when I compare this guy to someone like Rush Limbaugh who makes his living talking…it seems to me that McCain is the tougher of the two. But it seems that to many conservatives today someone like Limbaugh is the guy to idolize, not the man who stood up to the torture and still thought this country was worth standing up for.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 10:39 PM
We want to run Obama. An empty suit has never become president, regardless of money, hope, and change it wouldn’t be different with him.
its vintage duh on May 3, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Well I hope you’re right. You probably are. And I don’t think if she comes close it’ll be enough to stop Barry. But I do have a bad feeling about it.
I think the right has been slapping itself on the back and making assinine ‘pass the popcorn’ remarks for way too long now. You kill the monster when you have the chance. You keep it alive at your own idiotic peril.
Barry always polls better than he performs, and I’ve got this gut feeling that the big story come Tuesday is that the wheels have come off his wagon, and there’s Hillary, cackling and coming to the rescue of hard-working families everywhere.
Believe me though, I would love to be wrong.
Typhoon on May 3, 2008 at 10:41 PM
it’s mutual, I read pixels like a dog, there are several faux conservatives here who read like saranwrap, all talk and no walk, whenever I take a dump on them they run for cover
easy to figure out why
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:53 PM
.
The dems commit suicide if they give the nod to Hillary, they cannot win without the black vote
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 10:57 PM
windandsea:
Oh yeah, I know what you mean.
I think most people are tired of the war and just want it to go away and they are pissed about the price of gas. That is about as political as a lot of folks ever get.
I think some people thought immigration would be a big winner for them in 2006, but they were wrong largely because they were too strident. I understand how they felt, but the only thing a lot of that accomplished was to hurt George Bush. People can complain about him all they want, he is the Republican President and backstabbing the Republican president does not usually help Republicans. It just does not work that way.
That does not mean they can not disagree, but there are respectful ways to do it. And the same holds true with McCain.
Terrye on May 3, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Perhaps. But the people who amuse me around here are those who seem absolutely certain in the infallibility of themselves and their own personal crystal balls.
I’m not among them.
I do think that Hillary can win in NC. I think that if she does she’ll get the Dem nomination, and if she does, she’ll beat McCain. Yeah, yeah, I know about the black vote but if she offers him the number two spot and he takes it, then she’s obviously got them. If he doesn’t take it, then she tried, she’s got until November to mend fences, and he’s either got to have a valid reason for his refusal and campaign for her in any event, or he’s done for in that party. So as I said initially, I don’t think you can project today into the future.
And on that note, I’ll leave you to your vary obvious and fulsome pride in yourself.
‘Night.
Typhoon on May 3, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Ok. Let’s pretend Iran has just nuked Charleston, SC, Miami, FL, and Norfolk, VA. It’s 3am. Would you prefer Clinton or Obama?
thuja on May 3, 2008 at 11:34 PM
windansea on May 3, 2008 at 11:42 PM
We aren’t dealing with the people at Gitmo? We have them locked up in a military prison. We’re interrogating them. We’re letting the ones we think are not a threat go.
And McCain wants to take them from a military prison in Gitmo and bring them to the US and put them in a military prison, and that’s dealing with them? In addition to giving them rights to which they are not entitled, how is that dealing with them when keeping them in a military prison at Gitmo is not dealing with them?
Man oh man. Reagan is indeed dead. Are the principles he espoused dead also? Which principles that he espoused are as irrelevant as abolition? Smaller government? Lower taxes? American exceptionalism? The belief that our best days are ahead of us?
Those conservatives might have thought he was an ex-Democrat movie star who could not be trusted, but surely they saw lots of evidence to the contrary?
Why do these people in rural America consider the days of Reagan to be a bad memory? Lower taxes? Winning the Cold War? Fixing stagflation? I might buy the argument that people in metropolitan America consider those days to be a bad memory, but rural America?
Reagan wasn’t universally loved, I agree, though a 49 state landslide, I submit, is very close to universal love. We don’t need someone who is universally loved. And that’s not one of my criteria.
Of course there are people who advocate bad policies with the best of intentions. I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about those that hate America. Like Wright and Ayers and Dohrn. And a raft of others, Code Pink, etc., who do not have a parallel on the Right. The far Left has no parallel on the Right, that I can see.
And no, windansea, I’m not saying vote for Democrats, tough guy; I’ll vote for McCain. But please, don’t try to convince me that McCain is a conservative. And don’t try to assert, without proof, that conservatives are out of touch or that someone in the mold of Reagan would be a loser.
OK, you’re silly. Not sure what tough has to do with it, but I’ll bet that Limbaugh could take McCain in a fight, if that’s what you’re saying: Limbaugh is about 55, McCain is 71ish, and Limbaugh isn’t physically disabled. See how silly?
We aren’t looking for a boxer. We’re looking for a President. And you don’t have to idolize Limbaugh to see that he espouses conservative principles and McCain, in a lot of instances, does not. If you have a coherent philosophy, you don’t do that. If you don’t have a coherent philosophy, you’re a wild card. And McCain has a reputation for being a wild card. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
So, Typhoon: some amount of people in America ARE static in the sense that they will NOT vote for Hillary under any circumstance. And she’s going to alienate the blacks, and the liberal intellectuals, and gain on that statistic? Democrats need that 90-92% of the black vote. None of them will defect, or sit home? Her negatives with the general electorate have been dropping? I’d like to see those numbers.
misterpeasea on May 4, 2008 at 12:35 AM
More of the former than the latter.
Personally, I don’t share it. I’d gladly take a Hillary presidency over an Obama one, any day of the week. ANY day.
And I would HATE to have a Hillary presidency. I just find the possibility of an even BIGGER leftist socialist than her in the White House to be terrified.
Vyce on May 4, 2008 at 1:18 AM
Here’s a surprise, I agree. The closest Republican congressman we have is not my district, I’m in John Barrow (D) district, and yes, I voted for Max Burns, even though I knew he was a crook because he was a Republican.
Back to the Local Republican Congressman. Jack Kingston got a million dollar earmark for a company that was under investigation for, misappropriating taxpayer funds.
I have said I’m a Conservative, and regarding Fiscal Issues, I’m certainly hard core. I think Congress should come in under the budget every year. I think it could happen, and I think it never will. I think the President could end a lot of this by pardoning every man and woman for all tax related crimes if Congress doesn’t change the hundred thousand pages of tax laws into something average people can understand and manage without a law degree. The tax form should be so simple that a sixth grader could do the math, instead it’s so complex that the only people who understand it are the tax lawyers hired by the rich and shameless, which is exactly the reason it’s so convoluted.
I think nuclear power should be extensively used, especially if you’re in favor of the asinine theory of Man Made Global Warming. It produces no carbon dioxide, or other greenhouse gases. Instead, even when we had the majority, we slid on that issue too. Oh sure, we had a vote on a bill, and then threw our hands up and said. Sorry, that’s what we can do for you. Cheap and efficient electricity is not available, instead you’ll just have to deal with it.
So yeah, I’m pissed at the Republicans. The only thing they managed to do was take care of the Credit Card Companies with Bankruptcy reform, which applies to individuals, but not companies. Companies still get to write off the debt, including retirement plans, in bankruptcy court. Good for the goose, not so good for the gander though. We passed the national ID card and called it the Real ID act. Now, if my state doesn’t comply, I’ll need a passport to board a plane flying domestic. Yeah, great plan there guys.
The Republicans haven’t governed as Conservatives, but pretend to be conservative come election time. I’m tired of being suckered. McCain is going to raise our taxes sure as the sun rises in the east. He voted against the tax cuts after all, and that was because it was too generous to the rich folks. They earned that money too, you didn’t John.
So I’m not supporting the Republicans, because they aren’t conservative. I’m not supporting John McCain because he’s not a conservative, he’s a liberal. He’s as conservative as he had to be to keep getting re-elected in Arizona. He’s as liberal as he could get away with in other words. Give him a chance, he’ll show us all how liberal he can be to get the NY Times writing fluff pieces about him again.
No, I’m not falling for the hype this election. I know that no matter who wins the White House we’re going to surrender in Iraq, McCain will just as fast if not faster than Clinton or Obama. I know that taxes are going to go up, McCain will do it with wide Bi-Partisan support. I also know that more socialism will be here, especially under McCain’s Global Warming nonsense.
Tell me again about the difference that my vote can make? I can have a Democrat, or a Democrat wrapped in an R in the White House. Gee, that sounds like a fun choice.
How about None of the Above.
Snake307 on May 4, 2008 at 2:53 AM
the 2 coolest posters on this thread: terrye and windansea!
no offense to anyone else…;-)
homesickamerican on May 4, 2008 at 5:45 AM
No, it wasn’t the immigration issue in 06, at least not the getting tough with immigration. The politicians who pushed tough on illegals won their elections. 06 was a lot of things, but it wasn’t immigration. It was Duke Cunningham, war hero, ace fighter pilot, and convicted as a corrupt politician. It was the audacity of the Republicans to campaign as conservatives, and then govern as liberals. It was the Real ID act, Bankruptcy Reform, the abuses of the PATRIOT ACT, and the PATRIOT ACT details.
The Republicans campaigned on fiscal responsibility, and promptly forgot it when they were in charge. Go back to 1994 and the Contract with America. Those were the ideals that got the Republicans elected in the first place, and those principals left the party about fifteen minutes after they got elected. We waited, and had to keep writing and telling them to get their minds right on the issues. We had to twist arms to keep them even pretending to notice the right.
It was a thousand things, the Republicans lost in 06, death by a thousand paper cuts. It was disgust at the entitlement attitude, which is even now affecting staunch Republican districts like Alaska. The people are sick of the “I’m the elected official you worthless peasants” mentality that is literally oozing from too many elected officials, and it’s not just the Republicans, it’s the Democrats too.
However, the Republicans were elected by the base for the most part. The Base that failed to turn out and support them in 06, because the Washington Elite got to the mentality that we Conservatives and the Christians were just going to show up and vote Republican because it was time to do that.
We got tired of the stalling, and we got tired of the obfuscation. Here’s the sad truth, Americans will forgive an honest mistake. We will generally speaking. If you turn right because your GPS told you to turn right, not noticing that it was a one way street going the other way, we’ll forgive you with a minor slap on the wrist. Especially if no one gets hurt.
The WMD Iraq issue. Hell, you were hard pressed to find someone in 2003 who didn’t think that Iraq had WMD’s. We all thought it, and when it became obvious that there were none to be found, the thing to do is go public and outline why you thought they had it and why you were wrong. The people would have forgiven Bush. I was arguing at the time that Intelligence work is like trying to figure out what a jigsaw puzzle picture is going to be when you are missing about half the damn pieces. You do the best you can with what you have.
I love Condi Rice, she’s a brilliant woman who’s way smarter than I am. Hell she’s smarter than any ten people I know combined. She’s an honorable woman who will work tirelessly for this nation, and this administration, in that order.
I admired Attorney General Gonzalez. Another real smart fellow. I could list more but you get the point. For a bunch of smart, and I mean real smart people, why couldn’t one of them say we need to go public and tell the American People we screwed up? Is the idea that fantastic?
“I did the best I could, made the best decision I could, with the information I had at hand. After 9-11, I felt it was more important to error on the side of protecting American interests, and American lives, than worrying that Saddam may not be the total embodiment of Evil. It turns out he was only 95% evil.” Then run down the charges against him that were proven to be true, and outline where they were in the Powell Presentation.
They didn’t do that. Instead, they took us for granted and continued to do stupid things like push Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants. Then McCain and the Bush administration took a page from the Liberals, and called everyone who opposed Amnesty, which was more than sixty percent of the nation, racists. Talk about audacity. That’s the literal definition of audacious. Calling a majority of the nation, and people who have supported you faithfully in the past, racist because they don’t see the reason why every twenty years we have to do Amnesty all over again for the next batch of illegal immigrants is audacity at it’s utmost.
The War in Iraq wasn’t going well, and sometimes that happens. We understand that. So when you run into a brick wall, you look at the wall and see if there is another way around, over, or through.
Bush said we’re staying just the way we are. No changes. Period. Now you don’t change plans when one day goes bad, but months later you got to be thinking it’s time.
It was time, right after the election. Then it’s time to do what almost eighty percent of the nation had been calling for months ago, a change in plans in Iraq. Then we had to have a surge, and equipment upgrades, and changes in our structure and organization. Well hell, why didn’t you do that ten months ago, or even six months ago?
I was in the military, and I know better than most that sometimes, soldiers die. It’s the risk we take. Fine, however don’t we have a moral obligation to spend each life as though it’s the precious commodity that we pretend it is? If we do, then Bush admitted he spent how many lives trying to keep from looking weak or mistaken in his plans?
It’s one thing to make a mistake from good intentions. That’s forgivable and understandable. I tried to do it the best I could is something the people would generally understand. I let people die for the last six months because I didn’t want to look like a wussy isn’t quite as forgivable. Then when you do change, the very next day, you look like a complete jackass.
Bush had the writing put on the wall in 06, the writing said the same thing that the voices had been saying. Pull it together, and do the right thing, do your best. He did it, right after the election, when it was too late to help the Republicans maintain any power.
I love our troops, was once one of them. I don’t think I was terribly afraid, because I had faith in my leaders, and my commanders. Faith that they were honestly doing their very best. Perhaps not perfectly, but the very best they could. No one could ever ask any more from any man or woman on earth, than they do the best they can. You can make a mistake doing that, and it’s sort of understood that you failed while trying, you went down swinging, or whatever. If you aren’t doing the best you can, then that’s a little harder to forgive.
So yes, I’m a little disgusted with Bush. Yes, I’m disgusted with McCain and his McAmnesty, and his McCampaign Finance BS. I’m disgusted with his McGlobal McWarming McNonsense. Show me the science, and so far you haven’t been able to, all you’ve been able to do is show me the conclusions, and then swear there’s consensus. Consensus means everybody knows, therefor it’s true. Everybody knew the earth was flat too didn’t they? They knew that the sound barrier would kill a man, you couldn’t get through it.
Snake307 on May 4, 2008 at 6:37 AM
I would much rather see Hillary Clinton as POTUS than Obama! At least she has a pair!
sabbott on May 4, 2008 at 7:15 AM
aengus on May 4, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Know what?
Ronald Reagan was the greatest leader of my lifetime. He had a vision and a plan, he stuck to it, he communicated it to the people of the US, and he defeated the Soviet Union.
But he also bugged out of Lebanon and in the doing emboldened the very enemy we now face.
And that’s my problem with your diatribe above. People are human. No one ever gets it right all the time and it’s easy to sit on the sidelines and look into history and offer up perfection as an alternative.
Problem is that in real life, it never is.
Typhoon on May 4, 2008 at 10:30 AM
ABO – anything but Obama
I can’t take him, even if he is more beatable than Hillary
I visualize Rev Wright spewing and my systems lock down. It is an uncontrollable reflex.
entagor on May 5, 2008 at 1:40 PM
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