tree hugging sister on May 2, 2008 at 2:45 PM

My apologies, I should have made my post more clear.

I meant the labour force market demand, not product.

As for the labour pool itself, I would think that most Companies would go with those who would be unlikely to organize/agitate for increases. Bottom line is the raison d’etre after all.

I’m very aware of the Daley machine. However it is in Chicago and its national tentacles are very limited. The Clinton machine borders on the international.

As to the comments about the “theory” Blacks will stay home, it is just that, a theory. And on this theory you would let Hillary get the nomination because then you think McCain could win because said Blacks will stay home? Wow!
Talk about rolling the dice with the devil.

The Clinton’s will eat your lunch if you let them get close. Where have you been these last 20 years? If Obama is as clueless as everyone says he is, help him get the nomination. Rush is completely out of his mind. Everything that is happening would have happened on its own–Hillary would never quit–the only difference is Obama would have a bigger lead and would be certain of the nomination. Now its not certain and you are counting on “Watts II” if she gets the nod to get McCain elected.

I said it before and I’ll say it again, Rush has no problems with Hillary getting elected–its good for his business. That’s why he’s got folks crossing over.

People who would suggest a $300K giveaway probably don’t think Jeremiah Wright is so bad–after all, look at the house the church gave him!

One pair of guys I saw even had all their own carpenters’ tools in the truck and ready to go.

but low wages are a direct result of changes to the great mover – market supply and demand.

Respectfully DISagree. That was true years ago in these industries (I’ll refer specifically to poultry, framing and roofing), but not now. Those artificially low wages are motivated by nothing more than the bottom line: profit margin. Even in boom times, they remain low because: a) illegals aren’t going to walk off the job or organize for raises b) if they should, there are 15 waiting in line take that same minimum wage like a shot.

The only thing that will change the dynamic as it currently exists are ICE crackdowns chasing off workers that are already in place and scaring off their replacements, which is happening to a certain degree.

In the housing industry locally, the ONLY blacks I’ve seen in the developers crews are the bricklayers, and those teams are almost exclusively black. The roofers are ALL Mexican, except for the company rep checking in on the jobsite.

And that keeps wages artificially low in a great many formerly blue collar industries.

tree hugging sister on May 2, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Sorry, I don’t agree. One can have an artificially high wage – paying someone more than they are worth to the market, usually through the force of unionism, but low wages are a direct result of changes to the great mover – market supply and demand.
At a time when the labour force is scarce, they can demand higher wages because of said scarcity – whether the job is really worth that wage or not.

Or is it the word “willing”?

It might well be the word NOW, but, if I’d made a living in those same factory ops and wound up pushed out by minimum wage, no benefit illegals AND had nowhere else to turn for employment, I might be bitter. And unwilling.

And don’t think for two seconds those chicken execs don’t overlook even blacks willing to work for those wages, because Hispanics aren’t union types. A good swath of them illegal, they’ll take anything they can get, because at least they’re getting something. And that keeps wages artificially low in a great many formerly blue collar industries.

Superdelegates were a stupid idea then, are a stupid idea now, and hopefully the Dems will get rid of them in the future–or we will face more elections like this.

tree hugging sister on May 2, 2008 at 11:03 AM

Okay. Thanks for the info.

So, it seems that the minimum wage is the real decider as to who gets to keep their job at the entry level. Or is it the word “willing”?

With regard to the Hispanics taking jobs away from Blacks, why is that? How is it achieved? Are they better qualified? Or is it a red herring?

I’ve heard it said that the entry level jobs a lot of southern blacks had that paid a living wage (in AL, for instance, chicken processing) have been inundated by Hispanic workers willing to do the same thing for minimum wage. Your black construction crews ~ indeed all the construction crews white AND black ~ have given way to a few supervisors, a few highly skilled individuals and gaZILLIONS of Hispanic workers. Doing it for minimum wage. The black workers have been forced out.

Obama has no machine–it takes years–thus none of his supposed radical ideas (whatever those are) will ever see the light of day.

patrick neid on May 2, 2008 at 8:28 AM

Dude, you ever hear of the Chicago machine? That’s the machine that got John Kennedy elected.

The DNC may have to choose the weaker candidate as a loss leader in order to save their candidates in Congress.

But will they? They see the population of African Americans dwindling and Hispanics and others rising. Down the line, this will weaken their support for black voters. The parties don’t care a fig for them; they want votes.

What’s with quoting the ‘McClatchy analysis’? Reading anything from McClatchy is like listening to Radio Moscow. Their POV is simple–scare readers away from Clinton at any cost. Obama is the American Allende.

patrick neid on May 2, 2008 at 8:28 AM

I disagree. It seems to me that Tony737 has it right, and many, many blacks would simply stay home. I’m not saying that there would be some sort of organized “message” to the Dems; I just think that enough animus toward HilldeBeast would exist that supporting her would be impossible.

That said, I think Ed has it right: the Dems would rather put up Obama and lose, just to retain the monolithic black vote for another cycle.

I gotta check on my popcorn supply…

This would be the nail in the coffin for liberals nationally. One look at an electoral map will tell you that without the 90/10 split in the black vote Democrats could not hold an office beyond that of mayor. The aforementioned change in voting habits would force Democrats to tack to the right on issues near and dear to the far left. Democrats poor black constituents just might vote with the knowledgte of supply and demand, then start voting against the party that is not supplying them with cheap gas and forcing them to pay higer prices. The GOP has several conservative solutions that address issues that blak people traditionally vote on, if black people choose the better option in even a small way say 80/20 you will see an immediate change in the Democrat party.

Goodbay far left…

End the war, Give a hugh rebate to the people…abt $300,000 per person middle class down, health care for all including dental, hydrogen and solar and other forms of green energy, no income taxes for the middle class and redesign NAFTA. This will solve most of America’s problems

.

That is the Dem donor. Sure, not all of them, but that is where Barak’s $96 average donation comes from.

It is all about FREEdom, not freedom. I don’t buy into this massive split vote argument. These nutjobs will come together. FREEdom will trump race, gender, electibility.

When/if Obama is denied the nomination he will endorse Hillary. Every preacher will turn out the vote for Hillary and the Black vote will turn out.

I disagree. Further, I don’t see many in the black community blowing this off like the other times the Dems have screwed them. The difference is the election itself. An expectation has been created that Obama will be the nominee. If he is not the nominee, many, including many outside the black community, will believe he was screwed out of it. Because we’re dealing with a situation directly linked to the election, those that are offended will not support Hillary. Further, since the Presidential election is what brings most people out, it’s likely that they will simply stay home. I still see enough people coming out that the Dem slate isn’t terribly hurt, but it could lead to a landslide in the Presidential, and the GOP could pick up seats in the tighter races.