Marginalization, or how the Left got out-Foxed
posted at 10:35 am on May 2, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Fox News has had a remarkable resurgence with Democrats. Two years after Bill Clinton tried to undermine Chris Wallace for having the temerity to ask tough questions in an interview, his wife appeared twice with Bill O’Reilly and Barack Obama met with Wallace himself on Fox. The Democratic embargo of the news network has apparently collapsed — and its architects among the netroots are livid, as Politico notes:
The nation’s top Democrats are suddenly rushing to appear on the Fox News Channel, which they once had shunned as enemy territory as the nemesis of liberal bloggers.
The detente with Fox has provoked a backlash from progressive bloggers, who contend the party’s leaders are turning their backs on the base — and lending credibility and legitimacy to the network liberals love to hate — in a quest for a few swing votes.
In a span of eight days, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY.) and Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean are all taking their seats with the network that calls itself “fair and balanced” but is widely viewed as skewing conservative. …
Markos Moulitsas, founder of the leading liberal site Daily Kos, told Politico’s Michael Calderone: “Democrats are being idiotic by going on that network.” Ari Melber, the Net movement correspondent for The Nation, told Politico by phone that progressive activists and the Netroots are “not happy about it.”
This highlights why the Democrats have begun moving away from the netroots, at least for political advice. Fox News has the highest ratings of any cable news channel, while MS-NBC has the worst. Moulitsas wants his candidates to appear on MS-NBC and to boycott Fox. In which universe does this make any political sense at all? The entire notion of doing television appearances is to have the widest possible audience exposed to the campaign’s messaging, not to preach to the choir.
The netroots want their candidates to remain in their lockbox. Obama and Hillary have discovered, perhaps a bit late, how confining that box can be. This advice might have made sense for the primary season, although I think that’s at best arguable. In a general election, the candidates have to try to capture independents and centrists as well as the hard-Left loyalists, and that means going to where the voters are rather than expecting voters to seek out the candidates.
Netroots advocates want to “delegitimize” Fox News, but that’s a battle they lost years ago. Fox gets its legitimacy from its viewers, and it has more than CNN and far, far more than netroots favorite MS-NBC. Their boycott has done nothing to dent Fox’s lead. The appearance of Obama, Hillary, and now Howard Dean exposes the futility and silliness of their jeremiad against a network that airs more unabashedly progressive commentators than CNN.
The grown-ups have elections to win. They won’t do that by committing to exclusivity with Keith Olbermann, and if the netroots of the Left think otherwise, that shows how out of touch they really are.
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Kos on FOX: Screw ‘em!
misterpeasea on May 2, 2008 at 10:38 AM
The nutroots are remarkably ineffectual activists for their cause.
Hillary’s thrown them under the bus having foolishly dabbled with them. How long before the rest of them do the same thing?
They are entertaining to watch from afar though.
Ares on May 2, 2008 at 10:40 AM
I posted this comment over in the headlines section…
Red Pill on May 2, 2008 at 10:43 AM
The Obama still doesn’t get it. Is it the far-leftys that are running him? Under attack, he seems to have retreated, into their counsel.
Clinton made a VERY strong showing on O’Reilly. McCain is set for next week (don’t expect much). But Obama will probably not commit to O’Reilly until after McCain. A big mistake.
Agrippa2k on May 2, 2008 at 10:44 AM
Appearing on Fox is a good first step.
But any candidate who really wants to show their courage needs to do an interview with Michelle Malkin.
All in favor, say, “Aye”.
Red Pill on May 2, 2008 at 10:48 AM
KOS = POS
cannonball on May 2, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Bob Beckel and Skeletor made note of this the other night, with Beckel saying CNN and PMSNBC were simply Democrat echo chambers. If you want to make any inroads with the rest of America, it only makes sense to go on the network with the widest audience.
Even Obama and the Pantsuit have figured this out.
JammieWearingFool on May 2, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Where Fox News has the advantage over DailyKos, in the world of advertising (earned or paid) is that within the 35-54 age group, sane viewers count double.
RBMN on May 2, 2008 at 10:53 AM
I don’t have cable or Sat so it is all over-the-air HD for me. I just wish FOX had a ota national news broadcast. ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR is the only fare available. Quite frankly the local FOX coverage sucks (dirty laundry & bumbleheads). I have to wait for Sunday and FNS to keep me from turning into some kinda of KOS/Lindsey Graham hybrid.
I know what you are going to say….’Open your wallet, Lim, and come into the light.’ I just can’t see spending $69 or more a month for 99 channels I’ll never-ever watch, not counting that part of my money will go to support MS-NBC and the Olbybots.
Limerick on May 2, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Boo-Freeking-Hoo for the lefty bloggers.
Maxx on May 2, 2008 at 11:01 AM
KOS = L-O-S-E-R
jimmer on May 2, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Where do you live? Hereabouts you can get combined basic cable-Internet-unlimited phone for $100 a month (RCN, Comcast, or Verizon). You do have to sign two-year contracts, though.
MrLynn on May 2, 2008 at 11:02 AM
In the universe of the fever swamps! And we do the very same thing on the right – who remembers the sturm und drang of the right wing blogosphere when our candidates made appearances at the Marxist cesspool PMSNBC? Why, it was … uh … we really … oh.
Jaibones on May 2, 2008 at 11:03 AM
I hope Obama stays off Fox, it will show that he can’t handle the heat.
The first question to Obama? Why did it take you so long to decide to come on Fox, are you that afraid of the extreme left?
right2bright on May 2, 2008 at 11:07 AM
I am stuck in town/county that has some kind of bullpie rule…
I have TW cable internet(only cable internet available), ATT local phone, Verizon cell.
They CANNOT bundle in my area. I know. I tried with ATT and Verizon and was turned down flat.
But the biggest reason I don’t is the profit sharing thing.
I HATE having to pay for things I don’t use, or don’t support, just so I can get to the one crumb that interests me.
Limerick on May 2, 2008 at 11:08 AM
“The detente with Fox has provoked a backlash from progressive bloggers, who contend the party’s leaders are turning their backs on the base”
Why is it that the people with the most extreme positions of both parties consider themselves “the base” (english for al Qaida)? People with extreme positions generally make up a small (but very vocal) number of the party. The vast majority of Democrats and Republicans are more toward the center. And in most places there are more “independent” voters than eitehr Democrats or Republicans and in some places such as Texas, more than both combined.
I believe “the base” overvalues themselves and in many cases costs each party more votes than it provides.
crosspatch on May 2, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Wouldn’t it be better to just say that the K stands for Kettle? I leave it to the reader to determine what OS stands for.
Kafir on May 2, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Why not just boycott TV altogether? My life is better without it. Only because the DVD is a computer essential do I even watch an occasional movie that I check out from the public library.
And for the record, my chief source of news is HotAir. I feel it’s safe for me as RINO to have such an admittedly biased news source, since I tend to think things out myself. I doubt it would be healthy for a devout Conservative to have HotAir as their major source of news. People need their ideas challenged.
thuja on May 2, 2008 at 11:22 AM
I second that. Eight years and counting, no TV, just a few movies from time to time. News from the internet and podcasts.
RushBaby on May 2, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Truth be told – Fox is just another liberal network with a Fake-Conservative-Clothing.
Anita on May 2, 2008 at 11:35 AM
“AYE”
apoole on May 2, 2008 at 11:35 AM
I don’t think one can think clearly without considering a breadth of opinion. But Kos and Huffpo so seldom are any help here since they seldom contain any reasoning but are cesspools of opinions and emotions.
snaggletoothie on May 2, 2008 at 11:45 AM
So now they’ll move to Plan B, which is to infiltrate Fox with liberals and turn it into another network just like CNN, MSNBC, etc.
thirteen28 on May 2, 2008 at 11:55 AM
That’s right, Kos. They are all idiots. They don’t know what they are doing. You’re the only smart one.
blink on May 2, 2008 at 11:56 AM
his wife appeared twice with Bill O’Reilly
If you mean over the past few days, I think she only met with him once, and the interview was published spread over more than one day. It does show that it was a long interview, though. I respect Sen. Clinton for that.
daryl_herbert on May 2, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Allow me to point out the obvious: They are afraid their candidates will be exposed when forced to answer tough questions. They want them restricted to “friendly” media where the risks are low. That’s why they freaked out at what happened during the ABC debate. That’s not supposed to happen when Democrats face the MSM.
TheBigOldDog on May 2, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Why? If I were an arch-lib the person I would fear the least is Bill O’Reilly. He has a history of rolling-over for everybody from Michael Moore to Rosie O’Donnell. Any big-time Lib who fears O’Reilly isn’t paying attention. He only beats up on nobodies who can’t help his career.
TheBigOldDog on May 2, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Because they are. They are the people who volunteer. They are the people who donate. They are the people who get out the vote.
TheBigOldDog on May 2, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Then why were they the ones who focused on the “fauxtography” scandal during the Lebanon-Israeli thing a couple years ago? How about Rev. Wright? If FoxNews hadn’t broadcast these issues, they never would have seen the light of day on anything but a bunch of websites. CNN and the others only came because FoxNews was winning.
Why did Bill Clinton freak out so much with Chris Wallace? Because FoxNews asks really hard questions, not the softball crap every other network does.
Just because their type of “conservatism” doesn’t match yours, doesn’t mean they’re not conservative.
Plus, I’d venture to guess Fox News is actually the most fair Network on the TV. Tough on both sides and asking tough questions of everyone. And good on them for it.
mjk on May 2, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Why? If I were an arch-lib the person I would fear the least is Bill O’Reilly. He has a history of rolling-over for everybody from Michael Moore to Rosie O’Donnell. Any big-time Lib who fears O’Reilly isn’t paying attention. He only beats up on nobodies who can’t help his career.
TheBigOldDog on May 2, 2008 at 12:07 PM
You got that exactly right, but you left out attractive women which seem to be B.O.’s biggest weakness. I hesitate to describe Hillery in those terms, but she did look better in that interview than she has in a while…
winewife on May 2, 2008 at 12:27 PM
The problem, with both sides of the spectrum, is that they expect the word ‘fair’ to mean ‘fair to their side’ from their personal perspective. If Fox is taking shots from both the left and right, it seems to me they’re just about perfectly placed.
James on May 2, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Agreed about Kos and Huffpo. When I was thinking of more reasonable alternatives to HotAir, I was thinking of the MSM. It’s good to read the NYT and try to understand the ideas from their perspective before struggling to express what is wrong about their ideas. And if you are serious about ideas, it is a struggle to be clear with what’s wrong about them. Remember for all their faults, NYT’s editors and reporters aren’t stupid.
thuja on May 2, 2008 at 12:28 PM
@limerick
I only use OTA HD as well. With the sub-channels I actually get quite a bit of variety, including a dedicated weather channel, so I’m cheap like you! (there aren’t many like us though)
disco on May 2, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Cheap? Moi? Well…..yeah!
Limerick on May 2, 2008 at 12:37 PM
I’m sure the nutroots would have absolutely nothing against the Democrats appearing on Al-Aqsa TV. This has nothing to do with logic, and everything to do with blind ideology. Of course it makes sense for Obama and Clinton to appear on FOX – not all of FOX’s viewers are conservative die-hard Republicans.
If the Left really cared about spreading their message across America, they would be all over FOX News trying to convince the “stupid poor white folk” that the Republicans don’t have their best interests at heart. Yet instead, they treat FOX like the plague and never give their message a shot with those who they pretend to care about.
Which is kind of the point – the Left pretends to care about poor white people and black people. It’s all a game to get votes and power, they don’t really give a damn. If they did, they’d be on FOX every second they could to try and convince those uninsured poor white folks that the Democrats have a better plan for them.
Seixon on May 2, 2008 at 12:44 PM
I respectfully disagree. O’Reilly scored his best numbers of 2008, by far, when he aired the Hillary Clinton interview. See: http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/05/01/oreilly-vs-olbermann-through-wednesday-april-30/3581
What is more, the long-term trend line does show CNN and MSNBC substantially cutting into Fox’s lead over the past year. See http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/05/01/cable-news-ratings-through-wednesday-april-30/3592. Given that bigwig Democrats have boycotted Fox until very recently, and given that the “nutroots” has also encouraged liberal viewers not to tune into Fox, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume the boycott had something to do with it.
Outlander on May 2, 2008 at 1:05 PM
I wonder if any candidates will be going to Yearly Kos– I mean Netroots Nation this year.
That will be a tell about their power, won’t it?
MayBee on May 2, 2008 at 1:16 PM
Fox is smart. By getting the Libs to come on air they may get libs to come watch, expand the viewership, and then they can charge the Kinoki Foot Pad people, Wilford Brimley and Head-On more money for advertising. Then they can use the money to pay Rev. Wright that bribe Spike Lee is sure was paid to him to throw Obama under the bus. Does this count as a VRWC???
HawaiiLwyr on May 2, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Right, but as you know, the toddlers in Kos’ sandbox don’t want to debate the right. They want to shut it down.
If leftists take the WH, in addition to Congress, they’ll resurrect a “Fairness Doctrine” that would make Stalin proud. USSC would be our last hope.
petefrt on May 2, 2008 at 1:35 PM
I absolutely LOVE this!
John the Libertarian on May 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Wow, Markkkos is always so profound and well-spoken! How deep.
Grafted on May 2, 2008 at 1:47 PM
Clinton and Obama about Nutroots: “Screw them!”
baldilocks on May 2, 2008 at 2:48 PM
You forget one thing. Fox wants these people as much as the Dems should be on Fox.
While the interviews might appear stronger than normal this is only because the other stations do such a terrible job.
Recently, Wallace was on Fox and Friends, the morning show, bitching that they needed to stop showing so much of the Wright stuff, because he didn’t think it was fair!
O’Reilly, even interjected (because of law and order issues (I think) with Clinton with a helpfull hint on why she didn’t support crackdowns on sanctuary cities.
davod on May 2, 2008 at 2:53 PM
I can’t speak for everyone, but personally I’ve more or less stopped watching Fox news (and TV news in general) unless there’s a special event. O’Reilly’s program keeps getting more and more tabloid filler. I have exactly zero interest in every one of his weekly segments (other than Dennis Miller). I’ve never liked Hannity and Colmes much – neither one would ever concede a point to the other, so to me it’s more pointless bickering and really mindless spin than it is any sort of debate or meaningful discussion. Don’t even get me started on the Missing White Girls Show that finished out the prime-time segment.
ErikTheRed on May 2, 2008 at 3:01 PM
Kos and his gang really believe that Fox News is part of a real right wing conspiracy and is a true enemy of America (or at least of the socialist utopia they want America to be.) It is to them what Al Jazeera is to us. It’s pretty amusing to see the actual grownups on the Left telling them to STFU.
rockmom on May 2, 2008 at 3:03 PM
This thought just struck me; I don’t know if it is a good theory or not, but worth considering:
Perhaps the reason that Hillary (and to a much lesser extent, Obama) decided to get FOXy was that she figured that since McCain is disliked by most conservatives that she could pick up a significant number of non-lefty voters by appearing on the ‘Faux Bushitler network’?
Other than her answer on sanctuary cities, from what I’ve heard (I didn’t watch) she talked somewhat to the ‘right’ of McCain.
LegendHasIt on May 2, 2008 at 3:58 PM
“Democrats are being idiotic by going on that network.”
“I wonder if any candidates will be going to Yearly Kos–”
How about this for a theme song at Yearly Kos Moulitsas:
Slip-sliding away, slip-sliding awaaaaaaaayaaa……
Rovin on May 2, 2008 at 4:25 PM
I thought the whole idea of sitting before the cameras was to have other people see you….
moxie_neanderthal on May 3, 2008 at 7:26 AM
How long till Markos appears on FOX.
joeswampy on May 3, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Limerick: I hate having to pay for bet, msnbc, cnn, that ridiculous teenage obscene music program (can’t even think of it’s name)all the Spanish speaking channels (that have some horrible programs on as I flip through the channels)to just get Fox, sports channels, etc. But after having to watch all of the crap on abc, nbc, cbs news that was the only thing I could get, we finally gave in. When is someone going to give us a smorgasborg of channels we can pick from and pay for those only? I’m sure they would make a fortune.
Bambi on May 3, 2008 at 2:56 PM
yeeze — if ya think ya can’t handle O’Reilly, howinheck are ya gonna handle your dialogue with Ahmadinnerjacket?
Claire on May 3, 2008 at 11:30 PM
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