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Analysis: Obama, Clinton equally liberal

posted at 8:35 am on May 2, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The Poole reports on voting records in Congress provide one of the clearest analyses of relative position in voting records between members. Now the author of the Poole reports, Keith Poole of UC San Diego, has partnered with a number of his colleagues to analyze the relative position of the three Presidential candidates with their parties and on the general political spectrum. Poole et al determine that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton occupy almost the same spot on the spectrum, well within the liberal mainstream of the Democratic Party — and John McCain’s reputation as a maverick is well earned:

Senator Obama is at most marginally more liberal than Senator Clinton but the difference is negligible. The two are essentially identical ideologically based upon our DW-NOMINATE scores estimated from all roll call votes cast in Congresses 1 – 110 (through the 1st Session of the 110th, 2007). (The House and Senate were scaled together simultaneously using the 630 members who served in both Chambers — see our Technical Issues page for all the information about estimation issues and how the graphs below were constructed.) Clinton and Obama have served together since 2005…

Senator John McCain and President George W. Bush are shown on the Republican side (President Bush can be placed on the dimension using Congressional Quarterly Presidential Support roll calls). … Senator McCain is in the left wing of the Republican Party and President Bush is on the conservative edge of his Party.

The data here goes much more in depth than the National Journal reports that pegged Obama as the most liberal Senator in 2007. The actual Poole report for that year shows Obama at 11th place, still significantly out to the Left of the median. Russ Feingold wins the #1 slot for Most Liberal, and Poole shows that Feingold is a consistent outlier in the Democratic Party. To no one’s great shock, Paul Wellstone was the biggest Leftist in the Senate since World War II until his tragic demise in 2002, and Feingold replaced him afterwards. Hillary comes in 20th for 2007.

McCain comes closer to the middle of the spectrum than either Hillary or Obama. In fact, this looks very similar to the views held by the Pew poll sample released yesterday. McCain has split from his party more than either Democrat, and while still conservative, is much more moderate than his opponents. In looking at historic party trends, however, Hillary and Obama would have been considered solid liberals and party voters at any time over the last 40 years, while McCain’s position moved from the solid center of the GOP to the moderate side because of the party movement to the Right. In 1988, McCai’s position was at the dead center of the Republicans in Congress.

One other interesting point: the parties have removed almost all of the overlap between them. The Democrats have become purely liberal, and the Republicans purely conservative. The partisan divide is much more about real ideology and philosophy than about electoral politics, which is why politics has become so passionate. Among the three candidates running for President, only one of them has a track record of working to fix that — and it’s not Barack Obama.

Be sure to read all of Poole’s analysis. Bottom line: both Obama and Clinton represent the mainstream liberal position of their party and have little evidence to show that they would work towards compromise or bipartisanship. McCain comes closest to the center, and therefore covers much more political ground with the American electorate than either Democrat.


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Two peas in a pod?

No. More like a matched set.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on May 2, 2008 at 8:40 AM

And here I thought she’d spent her tenure in the Senate developing a somewhat “moderate” voting record so that she could get to the White House.

BillLalor on May 2, 2008 at 8:45 AM

Assume that this is true.

The polls say Hillary beats McCain, and McCain beats Obama.

So why is Operation Chaos encouraging votes for Hillary? Wouldn’t a better strategy be to vote for Obama in the primary?

Confused.

indythinker on May 2, 2008 at 8:47 AM

Operation Chaos has more to do with prolonging the Democratic primary, so that both candidates have to spend time out liberaling each other in order to win the nomination. The longer this goes on, the harder it will be for whoever wins, to work their way back to the center for the general election.

The longer this goes on, the more embittered will be the supporters of whoever loses. Making them less likely to get out in support of the eventual winner.

The longer this goes on, the more money both sides will spend, leaving less money for the general election.

MarkTheGreat on May 2, 2008 at 8:56 AM

OK, that makes sense. Thanks.

indythinker on May 2, 2008 at 9:00 AM

McCain has split from his party more than either Democrat, and while still conservative, is much more moderate than his opponents.

.

Was voting with the envirowackos who prevented us from drilling in ANWR “moderate”? Is supporting the McCain/Lieberman carbon tax “moderate”?

That is not being a “moderate”, it is letting radical “special interests” determine energy policy, with predictably disastrous results.

Heck, I propose that we ditch the term moderate and change the terminology to these 3 categories: liberal, conservative, and idiot

Buy Danish on May 2, 2008 at 9:01 AM

But the most dangerous of the candidates is Clinton.

She and her husband have a machine in place and they know how to run it ruthlessly. Once elected all the folks in state and federal positions who voted against them will be removed. Remember every federal prosecutor let go to cover the firing of the Arkansas prosecutor–that’s how it will be. Individual lives and families are irrelevant. It will be the Travel office on a massive scale. With Dem control of both Houses they will rewrite any and all laws as they see fit. Taxes will be first.

Very few politicians will have the fortitude to stand up and be counted. Rush is an idiot for even allowing the Clinton’s a chance at returning to the White House. He is not tearing the Dems apart, he is in fact unifying them for the general election.

If Hillary gets the nomination, and I believe she stll has a good chance, she will beat McCain probably 52-48 at a minimum, her negatives aside.

patrick neid on May 2, 2008 at 9:04 AM

The only real difference is in which candidate seems more likely to lash out at America’s enemies in a crisis, even if it’s only to save their own chances of re-election in 2012. Hillary comes across as not only ruthless enough to nuke Iran, if that’s what it took to win another term four years from now, she’d nuke Switzerland, Tibet or the Cayman Islands if Mark Penn’s polling said that was what the public wanted. Based on his reactions this week, Obama wouldn’t do anything unless Ahmadinejad or some other rogue world leader personally insulted or made a fool out of him — then it would be a true world crisis (see Carter, Jimmy and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan for an earlier example of this type of arrogant naivety and massive ego at work).

jon1979 on May 2, 2008 at 9:08 AM

So why is Operation Chaos encouraging votes for Hillary? Wouldn’t a better strategy be to vote for Obama in the primary?

Because Obammunist is the frontrunner. If Hilpatine takes the lead, she becomes the target.

Tony737 on May 2, 2008 at 9:09 AM

Senator McCain is in the left wing of the Republican Party

Well golly! Ya’ don’t say…

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

/sarc

Red Pill on May 2, 2008 at 9:11 AM

Oddly enough, the people who’ve been putting the most money into politics lately are even farther to the left than Hillary and Obama. If the vote is determined by the money, we’re in real trouble.

RBMN on May 2, 2008 at 9:18 AM

Heck, I propose that we ditch the term moderate and change the terminology to these 3 categories: liberal, conservative, and idiot

Buy Danish on May 2, 2008 at 9:01 AM

You’re on to something, ditching the term. Granted, though we come in all shapes and sizes, it may be yet in practice McCain’s bipartisanship: he’s liberal-progressive-RINO vs. conservative.

Voters know what McCain is. Even McCain admitted. Remember McCain’s stuttering Freudian slip, describing himself as a liberal, oops.

So the point remains, WHY ARE CONSERVATIVE MOUTHPIECES NOT REQUIRING MCCAIN TO SUBMIT HIS SWORN AFFIDAVIT TO NOT LEGALIZE ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Where is the testicular fortitude of Conservative radio hosts, journalists and bloggers to corner McCain prior to lending support? THIS IS THE TIME.

maverick muse on May 2, 2008 at 9:23 AM

WHY ARE CONSERVATIVE MOUTHPIECES NOT REQUIRING MCCAIN TO SUBMIT HIS SWORN AFFIDAVIT TO NOT LEGALIZE ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Where is the testicular fortitude of Conservative radio hosts, journalists and bloggers to corner McCain prior to lending support? THIS IS THE TIME.

maverick muse on May 2, 2008 at 9:23 AM

If Maverick loses the NC primary, we may have some leverage to do so.

Red Pill on May 2, 2008 at 9:26 AM

President Bush is on the conservative edge of his Party

Global warming, immigration, taxes, spending, I think Bush has pretty much fallen over the edge and into the liberal cavern.

right2bright on May 2, 2008 at 9:30 AM

. . . Heck, I propose that we ditch the term moderate and change the terminology to these 3 categories: liberal, conservative, and idiot

Buy Danish on May 2, 2008 at 9:01 AM

Maybe ‘liberal’, ‘conservative’, and ‘whacko’.

MrLynn on May 2, 2008 at 9:35 AM

If Maverick loses the NC primary, we may have some leverage to do so.–Red Pill at 9:26 AM

Loses the GOP primary in NC?!

Regardless of what McCain wins/loses, now is the time to make demands. Leverage is being vocal, front and center. The liberals are not the only members of society who can practice activism. Conservatives may eschew activism, but if that is what is required for survival, then to literary and vocal arms. All the while, hold tight to your pocket book when the GOP writes and phones since money speaks louder than words to their ears. Donate and contribute to the CONSERVATIVE cause, which has yet to be addressed by any of the three remaining liberals.

maverick muse on May 2, 2008 at 9:37 AM

Global warming, immigration, taxes, spending, I think Bush has pretty much fallen over the edge and into the liberal cavern.

right2bright on May 2, 2008 at 9:30 AM

You nailed that one. Into the progressive abyss Bush leads and McCain follows.

maverick muse on May 2, 2008 at 9:39 AM

The partisan divide is much more about real ideology and philosophy than about electoral politics, which is why politics has become so passionate. Among the three candidates running for President, only one of them has a track record of working to fix that

Fix what, again? This all sounds good to me. Real ideological and philosophical differences as opposed to electoral politics. Passionate politics.

And abandoning your own party to go along with the other party is not “fixing.” It’s “capitulating.”

Bipartisanship is not only a myth, it would be dangerous if it actually occured. A united gummint, passing reams of new laws? Meddling in every conceivable area of human activity? I mean, even more than now.

misterpeasea on May 2, 2008 at 9:41 AM

Very few politicians will have the fortitude to stand up and be counted. Rush is an idiot for even allowing the Clinton’s a chance at returning to the White House. He is not tearing the Dems apart, he is in fact unifying them for the general election.

patrick neid on May 2, 2008 at 9:04 AM

Do they look unified to you? The ’superdelegates’ are edging toward Obambi, because they have calculated that (a) he’s ahead, and likely to stay ahead; and (b) as long as he’s even marginally ahead, they can’t deny him the nomination and risk mayhem at Denver and in the inner cities across the nation. But as long as Missus Slick can hang on, clawing and scratching at Obambi, the longer the outcome remains in doubt. Now the feminists and the Floridians are threatening to tear apart the convention.

Operation Chaos has more to do with prolonging the Democratic primary, so that both candidates have to spend time out liberaling each other in order to win the nomination. The longer this goes on, the harder it will be for whoever wins, to work their way back to the center for the general election.

The longer this goes on, the more embittered will be the supporters of whoever loses. Making them less likely to get out in support of the eventual winner.

The longer this goes on, the more money both sides will spend, leaving less money for the general election.

MarkTheGreat on May 2, 2008 at 8:56 AM

Remember the old doggerel,

There once were two cats of Kilkenny;
Each thought there was one cat too many;
So they fought and they fit,
And they scratched and they bit,
Till excepting their nails
And the tips of their tails,
Instead of two cats there weren’t any!

That’s what we want!

(Hey Mark, are you the real Great One?)

MrLynn on May 2, 2008 at 9:49 AM

Obama wouldn’t do anything unless Ahmadinejad or some other rogue world leader personally insulted or made a fool out of him

Comrade B.H. Obama is more likely to nuke the Blogosphere since it has been making a fool of him for some time.

As for Comrade H.R. Clinton:

With Dem control of both Houses they will rewrite any and all laws as they see fit. Taxes will be first

Individual achievement will be outlawed in favor of Über-egalitarianism (for the nomenklatura) and Socialism WILL reign supreme in this country for quite some time.

SeniorD on May 2, 2008 at 9:57 AM

I get the feeling, given Obama’s circle of friends, Hillary would be less likely to sell out Israel, and might come around on the Colombia FTA. Other than that, same.

Golden Boy on May 2, 2008 at 9:58 AM

If Maverick loses the NC primary, we may have some leverage to do so.

Red Pill on May 2, 2008 at 9:26 AM

We’re not going to replace him with Huck.

Esthier on May 2, 2008 at 10:22 AM

DW-NOMINATE is of little use in the arena that I think is
most important about the presidential race: foreign policy. Before I go on, permit me to explain DW-NOMINATE. What DW-NOMINATE does is to take all the votes in Congress and project them a two-dimensional space. (You could project on other dimensional spaces but no additional information is obtained from more than two.) One of the two dimensions appears to be economic issues. The second dimension is a much reduced dimension that seems to be social issues/urban versus rural and perhaps other interpretations. Poole claims that why all the votes in Congress can be captured in two dimension is the simplifications wrought by ideology and party, In simpler terms that is to say you’ll often be right to guess a person vote on abortion legislation from their vote on a minimum wage bill.

As you noticed, foreign policy is not in a dimension captured by DW-NOMINATE. While we probably would be correct in thinking we could predict foreign relations votes from minimum wage votes, such voting would only capture foreign policy preferences after the foreign policy has already been framed by ideology and party. But a president makes foreign choices before they have been framed by ideology and party constructs. How would Hilary and Obama make foreign policy decisions? We have much more direct information about their foreign policy ideas than how their voting on minimum wage laws would structure their foreign policy decisions. Hilary has taken a more practical and less naive approach in her foreign policy statements than Obama has. A Hilary presidency would be much more likely to keep us safe than would an Obama presidency. We shouldn’t let the DW-NOMINATE measures obscure that. And of course McCain would be better still.

thuja on May 2, 2008 at 10:31 AM

Donate and contribute to the CONSERVATIVE cause, which has yet to be addressed by any of the three remaining liberals.

maverick muse on May 2, 2008 at 9:37 AM

Donate and contribute to the CONSERVATIVE cause.

Red Pill on May 2, 2008 at 10:52 AM

Esthier on May 2, 2008 at 10:22 AM

I will not make any predictions about the overall winner, but expect both Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul to do well next Tuesday in NC.

Go ahead and flame away, but there are a lot of NC voters who are not happy with John McCain.

In my opinion, only good, not harm, can come from McCain performing poorly in the NC primary. He needs a wake-up call.

As I said yesterday, the general election is when you “suck it up” and vote for the party’s nominee. Primaries are when you vote for the candidate who best represents your values. (Which is why I don’t agree with Operation Chaos…if I had told you 8 years ago that you would be voting for Hillary Clinton in 2008, you would have laughed at me)

Red Pill on May 2, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Marxists would be more descriptive. Taking profits, what’s that all about? Command and control central planning the economy, healthcare, that’s more like pure Communism. There really isn’t a dime’s worth of difference, they are all derivatives of Karl Marx’s Communist ideology.

Not American …

tarpon on May 2, 2008 at 11:44 AM

That’s two peas in a pod-duh [Laurel & Hardy].

And, they aren’t Liberals, they are Socialists. And they are Socialists of the worst kind – the rich, hypocritical kind. The only thing more vile than an American Socialist, is a rich, American Socialist.

Call ‘em what they are – rich, American Socialists.

OhEssYouCowboys on May 2, 2008 at 12:51 PM

Obama and Hillary are both liberals??? When did this happen? I am shocked I tell you…shocked!
/sarc

HawaiiLwyr on May 2, 2008 at 1:38 PM

Mr Lynn

Everything you mentioned is just standard political fluff. Hillary Clinton would have stayed in the primaries had she lost every one. She is not quitting under any circumstances. She is running for herself and more importantly as redemption for Bill’s legacy. Once she is elected his “blue dress” basically disappears as a footnote overwhelmed by the first husband and wife presidents.

What Rush and folks like you are doing is giving her the chance of actually getting the nomination.

As to the canard that the Dems are at each others throats that is laughable. Having had the White House only 12 of the last 40 years, the Dems, editorial pages, magazines, CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, Hollywood and virtually everything not repub will eagerly join together and vote. This will happen even if there is blood in the streets at the convention.

The only hope McCain has is Obama gets the nod while the Clinton’s secretly undermine him still hoping for 2012.

I would not be surprised to find that Rush wants Hillary to get elected despite any denials to the contrary. He does not like McCain and Hillary would be great for business.

patrick neid on May 2, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Red Pill on May 2, 2008 at 9:26 AM

I want whatever you’re smoking.

Al in St. Lou on May 2, 2008 at 2:45 PM

. . . The only hope McCain has is Obama gets the nod while the Clinton’s secretly undermine him still hoping for 2012.

I would not be surprised to find that Rush wants Hillary to get elected despite any denials to the contrary. He does not like McCain and Hillary would be great for business.

patrick neid on May 2, 2008 at 1:43 PM

Rush is a realist; I think his analysis is correct: the longer the Hatfields and the McCoys tear each other up, the better the chances that the Dems will be so divided by September that many will stay home or vote for McCain.

Rush also points out, often, that his ratings do not depend on who’s in office.

If Obambi is denied the nomination, you’ll have riots in the streets. The rabble rousers would love the excuse. Missus Slick’s fans might grudgingly line up for Obambi, but an awful lot of folks are so turned off by him already; they’ll vote for McCain or stay home in a pique.

If the Missus wins the nomination, you’re assuming she can beat McCain. But Mister Slick never got a majority of the popular vote, and she’s a lot less popular. Even my 94-year-old mother, who’s never voted for a Republican in her life, is saying McCain is the best of the lot.

Let Operation Chaos continue!

MrLynn on May 2, 2008 at 3:55 PM

The data here goes much more in depth than the National Journal

…which is a kinder way of saying that it makes the NJ data look like the B.S. it is. Thanks for pointing out this analysis, Ed, in spite of the convenient Obama’s-the-liberalest myth it shatters.

calbear on May 2, 2008 at 3:59 PM

McCain Center-Right, right where America is.

Chakra Hammer on May 2, 2008 at 5:47 PM

mr lynn,

I posted this earlier on another link but it’s related…..

As to the comments about the “theory” Blacks will stay home, it is just that, a theory. And on this theory you would let Hillary get the nomination because then you think McCain could win because said Blacks will stay home? Wow!
Talk about rolling the dice with the devil.

The Clinton’s will eat your lunch if you let them get close. Where have you been these last 20 years? If Obama is as clueless as everyone says he is, help him get the nomination. Rush is completely out of his mind. Everything that is happening would have happened on its own–Hillary would never quit–the only difference is Obama would have a bigger lead and would be certain of the nomination. Now its not certain and you are counting on “Watts II” if she gets the nod to get McCain elected. And boy there’s campaign strategy to get back the black vote–be part of a dissing-campaign to get blacks to burn down their neighborhoods.
Trust me, if Obama gets the shaft the media et al will blame it on the repubs and it will stick. The cross over voting instigated by Rush will be the central focus. He will have gamed the system and he will rue the day.

I said it before and I’ll say it again, Rush has no problems with Hillary getting elected–its good for his business. That’s why he’s got folks crossing over.

patrick neid on May 2, 2008 at 6:13 PM

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