It doesn’t matter what the base commander knows, it’s what can be pushed through the system. He knows the barracks sucks, the Bn Commander knows, the Company commander knows, lowly Master Sergeants like myself know, the problem is, once a civillian organization gets the contract, they have no competition, and this being the government that sort of thing takes years to correct.

gator70 on April 30, 2008 at 9:08 AM

Sometimes if you want something done right, or in some cases done at all, you have to do it yourself. The Army has come to depend, or maybe I should say “depend”, on private contractors too much. However if the civilians are government (GS), then their boss somewhere up the line should ,and almost certainly does, have a uniformed boss.

We arent allowed to make our own repairs, or paint anymore. Once again we do not own the barracks, civillians do. They suck. In fact if something gets broken, regardless of how, they try to charge the Marines who live in the room for the damages like it’s a hotel. Then we have to go through mounds of painful papework to ensure that doesnt happen.

gator70 on April 30, 2008 at 9:11 AM

Now, that’s sad.

I wonder how civilians… Oh, no! I’d better correct myself. I know that many civilian workers and administrative officers are treated quite nicely, unlike at the barracks.

My husband used to work at NS Ingleside: nice buildings, nice treatment of the officers and civilians, but when it came to the work on the ships, they made so sure that it wasn’t really done, even though the Port Engineers pushed quite hard to get things done over there. One of the ships he took good care of and advocated for a long time was sold to the Greeks a year ago, and now that same ship looks like brand-new under their new management… Of course, he gave them some good advice on it well after it had changed hands. And, sure enough, he gained the trust of its new Greek crew. Having done the same under our own Navy, the crew wanted to see things done, but the Navy officers and civilians always seemed to find ways to stop any progress. It was the biggest headache for those who wanted to do things.

Many of our bureaucrats who work in the DC area get some nice little perks. My half-sister, who is an accountant at one of the big agencies in DC, gets a nice drive from home to work and then back on a Coach bus every morning. She really doesn’t have to worry about much: her job has her covered.

Nice (:-/) to see that our soldiers, the ones who actually spend the sweat, blood and tears, are treated that way.

If you replace a building, most do not replace the sewer pipes in the ground! If you replace or upgrade the pipes you may have it fixed. But then again you have to have people who know NOT to throw crap down a toilet (say a towel) and then wonder later why it doesn’t flush right anymore.

I can tell you stories about crappy (literally) barracks, the sewer gases coming up thru a water fountain. Women’s tampoons that they wouldn’t flush or some woman throwing a pad in the toilet. The women were were worse to live with then the men and I almost asked to be allowed to use the mens!

I could go on and on…. don’t just blame it on the military.

How common or uncommon is this

This barracks issue isn’t new and it is common. If a barracks is scheduled for use until 2050 it will be used until 2050.

Nor are the VA hospital problems new and uncommon.

Still, as cramped as that was it was comfortable enough. Nothing like sleeping in the mountains for months at a time without a shower.

We arent allowed to make our own repairs, or paint anymore. Once again we do not own the barracks, civillians do. They suck. In fact if something gets broken, regardless of how, they try to charge the Marines who live in the room for the damages like it’s a hotel. Then we have to go through mounds of painful papework to ensure that doesnt happen.

It doesn’t matter what the base commander knows, it’s what can be pushed through the system. He knows the barracks sucks, the Bn Commander knows, the Company commander knows, lowly Master Sergeants like myself know, the problem is, once a civillian organization gets the contract, they have no competition, and this being the government that sort of thing takes years to correct. For example it took a road construction crew, no kidding, almost 6 months to repave a small two lane section of road here on base. 6 months! They just putt putt along, and since it was the main road going through this base, it was pretty damn incovenient. Now for those who say, put em in tents, well here at lovely Twentynine Palms, that’s not a real option for any length of time as you may or may not know, and since the Motel 6 out in town can’t fit the whole base, well we just gotta suck it up till FY 09 comes along….well if they decide to get started.

Of course, we didn’t have civilians to take care of maintenance, there was just us. We painted, cleaned, scrubbed and shined. Then we’d fuck it all up over the weekend and have to do it over again.

Group latrines, without stalls, group showers and 50 men to a room. There were only two, upstairs and downstairs.

Screen sided hootches in Vietnam and Quonset huts in Korea. In Germany we had stone barracks that were used by the Kaiser’s troops.

But, as bad as it got, the Marines had it worse. Whenever we (the Army) got tired of destroying the buildings, we’d give them to the Marines.

It probably still works that way.

But a good Commander or First Sergeant could have raised enough of a stink to get them better barracks. Or else they could have had a company muster with mops brooms and paintbrushes.

Maybe the Army should hire the ACLU to push for their basic human rights…

The Air Force has it made.

But some of us actually wanted to be in the military.

Professor Blather on April 29, 2008 at 9:39 PM

Be careful what you wish for.

I hope many, many heads have rolled over this disgrace.

The Air Force has it made.

But some of us actually wanted to be in the military.

Professor Blather on April 29, 2008 at 9:39 PM

Hardy har har….funny how all the Army (and Navy) guys complain about the wimpy AF guys, but then when the gunship is overhead they love us. (At least in my experience…)

I wish all those men and women God speed!

What about the heating that didn’t get turned on until August and the air conditioning that didn’t get turned on until January?

And they wouldn’t turn off one and turn on the other, they turned off one and made an appointment for months later to turn on the other.

God love those base civil servants. They work so hard…

I can still remember using my sleeping bag in my barracks room in December because the air conditioning was still on, and sleeping out on the catwalk because it was cooler outside in July because the heat was still on and we had no way to turn it off. Putting cardboard in the vent offered little relief. Being woken up in the middle of the night outside with “what are you doing?”. And answering “trying to get some sleep, do you mind?”.

Just a little preview of what to expect if you allow the government to run your health care, or anything else in your life. “I’m from the government and I am here to help” is not the joke, it’s the punchline.

It sounds like things have changed a bit in 40 years. I guess you can’t make anyone do anything anymore.

rivlax on April 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM

I would debate that, no the military is as demanding on discipline as ever, I will bet my life on that!

I do know this: The father (and probably his son) are now the most hated by all troops who live on Post. There will be endless inspections as a result of this and any poor S.O.B. living on Post will now spend countless hours fixing all the gigs found in the numerous pre-inspections that will surly come prior to the main inspections.

Amen to that! He now has that dreaded ‘Congressional Flag” on his records. Excuse me for saying so, but ‘civilians’ do not realize they problems they bring upon their service members when they haughtily fire off letters and videos to Washington or the press. You are ever after branded as a handle with kid gloves soldier and while they may talk sweet to your face…..they are gunning for you in the end. Sortta like Vegas….what happens in the Army stays in the Army mentality, particularly with the oldtimers. And they are most likely your commander and senior NCO’s. It’s always a no win situation for the soldier. If his son is any kind of soldier he is sorely regretting this!

Growing up as an Army brat, however, some of our lodging was less desireable. That was in the eighties, though. I’ll just say that I’m not terribly shocked to see this story coming out of Fort Bragg.

joewm315 on April 29, 2008 at 10:40 PM

I lived in Corregidor Courts from 1962-64 when it was officers’ quarters and our three-bedroom apartment was quite comfortable and spacious. Just FYI, it was the same floor plan as Capt. Jeffrey MacDonald’s, which was just up the street on Castle Drive.

I also lived on post at Kelley Barracks near Stuttgart, Germany, in another spacious 3-bedroom apartment. Even at Fort Gordon in Georgia in the early ’50s, our quarters were clean and comfortable, if not stylish.

As with the troops, we had very strict maintenance rules, including lawn mowing, etc. It sounds like things have changed a bit in 40 years. I guess you can’t make anyone do anything anymore.

We do deserve to be housed better at the lower enlisted level, but the truth is it is changing. Sweeping renovations are talking place all over the Army. At Ft. Bragg our housing was okay, but did have leaks from bathroom overflows, which are extremely common. When you have family after family living in these units, the tenents dont’ take care of the quarters because they aren’t theirs and they know they’ll be in and out in a couple years at best.

We call the lower enlisted housing in the Army “the ghetto”. Everyone refers to them that way. BUT they are all being torn down and rebuilt.

The problem with the barracks is that this is where the lower enlisted single soldiers must live. They cannot live off post until they reach a certain rank. They don’t usually live there long because they deploy and promote.

I see the Army taking care of this Army wide, but it isn’t suprising that this substandard housing still exists.