according to a tradition related by ‘Urwah bin Zubair, Hadarat Umar who had embraced Islam by that time, said, “This Surah was revealed in my presence and I myself observed the state of the Holy Prophet during its revelation. When the revelation ended , the Holy Prophet remarked, ‘On this occasion ten such verses have been sent down to me that the one who measures up to them, will most surely go to Paradise’. Then he recited the initial verses of the surah.”

Wow, very interesting here. Are verses 1-11 revered among Muslims as Christians/Jews revere the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20)? If so, I must say in all fairness that I am impressed. If these verses are the requirements to gain Islamic salvation (as v.11 implies), then it is interesting that is based solely on how one treats a fellow believer and *not* on any kind of orthodoxy or what one believes about Allah. Mr Spencer, what are your thoughts on this?

“Hamid, you’ve never even read the Qur’an. Don’t tell me it’s the perfect religion.”

Mike joined in: “I find it amazing that so many people here have not read their most holy book. I’m not talking about people who can’t read, I’m talking about those who know how, but never bother.”

I piled on. “Why haven’t you read it? It’s the most important book in your life, and you’ve never read it.”

Hamid didn’t hesitate. “I don’t need to. My mullah tells me what is in the Qur’an.”

Mud from sand? Did I miss something in my Mud Pie 101 class?

Boot Hill on April 28, 2008 at 3:14 PM

Hint: Life’s a beach.

It’s all because of the type of sand they were made from: “Allah took a handful of sand from all over the earth and mixed it with water so that it became mud.”

Mud from sand? Did I miss something in my Mud Pie 101 class?

I have another question about the Koran that I haven’t seen you address in these posts.

When I read the Koran and Hadiths there was one aspect that really jumped out at me and I still don’t understand. Money.

[...]

Slavery. Kidnapping and Ransoms. The tax non Muslims have to pay.

I’ve addressed slavery and the tax. For kidnapping and ransom, stay tuned for Sura 47.

The Qur’an takes slavery for granted:

Slave women as war prizes (see. v. 3)

Slave women and marriage (see v. 24)

Freeing a slave as a penalty for oath-breaking (see v. 88)

The tax on non-Muslims:

Part I

Part II

Those who believe in “the signs of their Lord” – that is, the verses of the Qur’an (v. 58) and do not associate partners with Allah (v. 59) will be saved.

Allah has not begotten a son

Again with this stuff. I don’t know how anyone can slog through this with the constant repetition. It really is starting to read like they’re trying to program people.

Mr. Spencer, I read your Q-blogs every week without fail, I look forward to them and learn from it. But the quran is so contradictory that it can be very confusing.

“… you’ll see that the Qur’an speaks with great frequency of the other prophets …” – Robert

Yes, I know, it says that Moses and Jesus are on a lower plane of Heaven, a swipe at the “People of the Book”, but it also say that Allah turned their followers into apes and pigs. Allah was for the Christians and Jews before he was against them.

By the way, I just read a book you endorsed, “The Radical Eye for the Infidel Guy”. It’s good stuff, thanks for recommending it.

Connie on April 27, 2008 at 7:28 PM

I just finished listening to the entire debate and I loved this Warraq quote at the end [paraphrased]:

“I don’t want to live in a culture that stones people for adultery. I’d rather live in a culture where you get stoned first and then commit adultery”.

Exactly!

Connie on April 27, 2008 at 7:28 PM

Great link Connie. And you’re right. He is very impressive. I’ve only listened to the very first part of it so far.

I had to pause it after he spoke because I started crying. It’s nice to hear someone speak so eloquently in such passionate defense of Western culture.

Irish Spy, Ibn Warraq is an extraordinary man, one of the great heroes of our age, and everything he has written is essential reading: Why I Am Not A Muslim certainly, and also his latest, Defending the West, which is a book of stunning originality and depth of insight, and all his other books as well.

Robert Spencer on April 27, 2008 at 4:59 PM

I ran across the following debate hosted by The Spectator. I’m sure you’ve already listened, Robert, but I’m posting it for the rest of the readers here who may not be that familiar with Ibn Warraq. Tariq Ramadan is also a participant. I recommend listening to the entire audio, but for those of you who may have time constraints, Ibn Warraq is the first speaker. You will be impressed.

We Should Not Be Reluctant to Assert the Superiority of Western Values

I have another question about the Koran that I haven’t seen you address in these posts.

When I read the Koran and Hadiths there was one aspect that really jumped out at me and I still don’t understand. Money.

There is so much repetition, and I did jump around a lot, so I have no idea how much of the texts I did read. I read about 3 different web sites recommended by people who claimed to be Muslims, and they sent me these links in an attempt to “educate” me.

The one thing that struck me was the emphasis on money. It’s everywhere. You haven’t been focusing on that, but it sort of amazed me that the Jews have this reputation for caring about money, when it’s all thru the Islamic texts.

There is pretty much no detail of daily life that isn’t covered in the Koran and Hadiths, but money is a huge part of it.

I just wonder why it’s the Jews who are criticized for that when money seems to be so much a part of the Islamic holy texts.

Slavery. Kidnapping and Ransoms. The tax non Muslims have to pay.

It’s like the entire religion is based on money.

Great story too about that Muslim convert. So the “redemption” issue is the main reason of these conversions I take it.

The Qur’an doesn’t specify a number of virgins, although the virgins of Paradise — the houris — are very much in the book. The number 72 comes from a hadith, but not even a canonical one.

But I jumped around a lot, and I didn’t take notes. I read it because I was just so curious why liberals hate Christians so much while they defend Islam. So I wanted to learn more about Islam.

I never found anything about “72 virgins” but I see that on blogs and message boards on a pretty regular basis.

I’m not Robert (nor do I play him on TV), but ibn Warraq’s “Why I am not a Muslim” has a good discussion (including references) of Zoroastrian influences on Islam, especially pages 43-48.

Irish Spy, Ibn Warraq is an extraordinary man, one of the great heroes of our age, and everything he has written is essential reading: Why I Am Not A Muslim certainly, and also his latest, Defending the West, which is a book of stunning originality and depth of insight, and all his other books as well.

Ok, so anybody who lived and died before 632 AD went straight to hell? Oh Allah is mercyful!

No, not at all. If you have read any of the other recent Q-Blogs (or if you go back), you’ll see that the Qur’an speaks with great frequency of the other prophets, all of whom are supposed to have brought a message identical to that of Muhammad in all important particulars. These include Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus, etc. So anyone who followed the true Islamic message of those prophets, before their messages were corrupted by their followers, had a chance to be saved before 632AD.

Sounds like Calvin and his predestination.

Yes, they’re both iconoclastic determinists.

So what’s the point of converting or trying? You’re predetermined.

My colleague Hugh Fitzgerald over at Jihad Watch calls it “inshallah fatalism” — a resignation that stifles initiative and is found all too commonly in the Islamic world.

Plus, when mohammed states that allah ‘revealed to him xy&z’, is this an audible discussion? or written instructions? or…? Is it ever detailed the exact nature of this transmission of information?

Muhammad would report on his discussions with Allah afterward to his followers. Once one of them asked him: “How does the revelation come to you?”

He answered: “Sometimes it comes to me like the ringing of a bell, and that is the hardest for me, and when it leaves me I remember what it has said. And sometimes the angel appears to me in the likeness of a man and talks to me and I remember what he says.”

His favorite wife, young Aisha, noted: “I saw it coming down on him on an intensely cold day, and when it had left him his forehead was dripping with sweat.”

That is all from this hadith.

Any commentary on how zoroastrian philosophy may have influenced young mohammed?

Here is a good piece on the Zoroastrian influences in Islam from William St. Clair Tisdall’s Sources of the Koran.

So then, in Islam, there is no “redemption”? Since everything is the “will of Allah”, everything including the believers and unbelievers. No “free will” so to speak…

No, there is no free will in traditional Islam, in any case. While there are many verses in the Qur’an that assume that human beings have free will, early in Islamic history the proponents of this idea, the Qadariyya, were defeated, and human free will was declared a heretical infringement of Allah’s absolute sovereignty.

There is not in Islam an idea of redemption. There is just the idea, discussed in this very chapter, of the scales on the Day of Judgment: if one’s good deeds outweigh one’s evil deeds, one enters Paradise. If not, one enters hell. The uncertainty and logical difficulty (regarding the divine judgment and mercy) of this has led more than one Muslim to convert to Christianity — here is the story of one of them.

I’m not Catholic, but I think the Catechism does say that one does not have to be Christian to enter Heaven. Anybody know for sure? If true, it raises an interesting challenge for the Church: “Then why should I be Catholic?”

erclimb on April 27, 2008 at 1:54 PM

True, the Catholic Church does believe in salvation outside the Church, through such things as “baptism of blood” and “baptism of desire”. Just like the Church believes in salvation for those before Christ appeared, the people of God in the Old Testament.

Let’s not forget Dante who claimed all non-Christians and unbaptized infants went to Hell in the ring of “Virtuous Pagans”. In fact, Dante placed even the Jewish prophets and heroes (Adam, Noah, Moses, etc.) in Hell until the Harrowing of Hell by Christ at the moment of His death on the Cross. Of course, Dante does provide an ‘escape clause’ by seeming to suggest that these “Virtuous Pagans”–because they are virtuous and wise–will accept the light of God on Judgment Day.

Now, Dante was not a pope or even a priest, but he was proclaiming Catholic doctrine, and the Church is rather quiet on the idea. Just last year, the pope’s Theological Council addressed the question of unbaptized infants (Augustine put them in Hell; Aquinas took them out) and determined that this knowledge “has not been revealed” (i.e. they don’t know the answer).

I’m not Catholic, but I think the Catechism does say that one does not have to be Christian to enter Heaven. Anybody know for sure? If true, it raises an interesting challenge for the Church: “Then why should I be Catholic?”

I love the photo used for this on the front page. It shows the blatant hypocrisy of the idiotic islamic ideology. A muslim practicing freedom of expression, carries a sign condemning freedom of expression.

Guardian on April 27, 2008 at 10:16 AM

I love the fact that this comment was made by someone named “The Guardian”. ;)