Surprise: NYT pronounces NC GOP ad racist
posted at 3:05 pm on April 26, 2008 by Allahpundit
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An instant classic, blending the affected “righteous” shrillness of Keith Olbermann with the casual racial paranoia of Chris Matthews. The MSNBC-ization of the editorial page is thus complete:
The assertion that Mr. Obama is “just too extreme for North Carolina” is a clear bid to stir bigotry in a Southern state. The ad’s claim that its target is actually two Democratic gubernatorial candidates who endorsed Mr. Obama is ludicrous.
This is too familiar. In his 1990 re-election campaign, Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina ran the infamous “hands” ad showing two white hands crumpling up a letter while the announcer intones: “You needed that job, and you were the best qualified. But they had to give it to a minority.” His challenger, Harvey Gantt, a former Charlotte mayor, was, of course, African-American.
Althouse is incredulous but the logic here is the same as in that moronic LA Times op-ed declaring “elitist” to be the newest racial slur. Any personal attack on Obama from the right — and that includes Hillary Clinton, even though she’s but a hair’s breadth further towards the center than he is — will be spun by his apologists as motivated by racism. It’s a totally disingenuous, totally irresistible way to render damaging criticism of him illegitimate; in that sense, it goes hand in hand with his weaselly nonsense about everything that he doesn’t want to talk about constituting a “distraction.” Which, of course, is why conservatives are tearing their hair out over McCain’s squishiness about the ad: He’s ceding this point to the left, declaring any challenge to Obama’s basic judgment in his personal dealings to be some sort of ad hominem. Someone should ask him whether he considers the ad racist. I’m almost afraid to know.
Two other points. One, note that the spot includes photos of the two (white) Democratic gubernatorial candidates. If it hadn’t, if it had merely mentioned their names over images of Obama and Wright, the Times would have called it a sly attempt to make voters who may not know better believe that Moore and Perdue are themselves black. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Two, savor the easy smear of southern voters in the midst of this very sanctimonious harangue about prejudice. Mary Katharine wrote about the media’s assumptions about southern racism shortly before the 2006 midterms; if you’re white, have a drawl, and aren’t voting Democratic, you’re guilty until proven innocent — and since the left is perfectly happy to fall back on accusations of unconscious racism, there’s no way to prove yourself innocent. Nice to see nothing’s changed two years later, even after Obama captured more of the white male vote in Georgia than Hillary Clinton did. Remind me again, which southern Republican voting bloc decided to the tune of 20% that Obama’s race was an “important factor” in their vote? Oh, right — this one.
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This blog is racist!
Dash on April 26, 2008 at 3:08 PM
NYT did endorse McCain, so I’m not surprised by this.
Richard Romano on April 26, 2008 at 3:08 PM
OK. Who had less than a week in the pool for when this would be labeled with “R” comment?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on April 26, 2008 at 3:09 PM
All McCain ahs to say to the NYT is, “I’m rubber, you’re glue.” End of story.
Akzed on April 26, 2008 at 3:15 PM
How many african-american writers does the NYT employ?
How many african-americans sit on its board?
How many african-americans are part owners of the paper?
Inquiring minds want to know.
VolMagic on April 26, 2008 at 3:19 PM
McCain didn’t even watch the ad!
WisCon on April 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM
No one’s more racist, mysoginist, or misandrist than the lefties. They will prove it to us, over and over, this year. Exposed from within. Sweet!
Entelechy on April 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM
Is McCain still having a fitna, kittens, and canary over that ad?
Kini on April 26, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Gee, when liberals say they want to have a discussion on race in America you don’t think some of them are being disingenuous? Like using the race card?
Gosh, I’m stunned.
SteveMG on April 26, 2008 at 3:27 PM
CK MacLeod, where aaaaare yoooooou?
And speaking of smearing the South, let’s all pile on: The South Won And Ruined America.
Hey VolMagic, turns out we really won the War of Northern Aggression. I always knew the South Would Rise Again.
misterpeasea on April 26, 2008 at 3:28 PM
If I was an Obamaniac, would worry that calling people racist all the time would have a backlash.
Blake on April 26, 2008 at 3:28 PM
What the country cannot afford is to have debate shut down by shouting down the opposition with false accusations of racism.
Racism is the new facism. It is applied to any message that liberals don’t like.
But I guess people who equate racism with “being white” don’t really care about what the words they use really mean.
VolMagic on April 26, 2008 at 3:30 PM
One of the many times in the last 8 years McCain and the NYT have been in perfect harmony against conservatives.
It won’t be the last.
Valiant on April 26, 2008 at 3:32 PM
McCain is just like Bush, but not in the way the Dems and their underlings in the media claim. Bush and McCain both think they’re being “hip” and fresh by embracing the identity politics and “Earth Day” horsespoop. What they’re really doing is showing that their minds are stuck somewhere in the ’70’s. They think they can buy off the unwashed voting mob by appealing to lame ideas that the media says everyone believes.
Django on April 26, 2008 at 3:33 PM
If this ad would have included the USKKK of A speech, maybe the race card could be used, although I think the racist shoe would be on the other foot if possible. This ad did not have anything you could point out as racist unless you think showing a black pastor d*mning America is racist.
Les in NC on April 26, 2008 at 3:34 PM
Mr.PC,
It might make a few guys open their eyes when they find themselves in agreement with an NYT editorial!
The link didn’t load properly for me, but I see it’s Newsweek, and can thus conclude what the message might be.
VolMagic on April 26, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Words. Just words?
Les in NC on April 26, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Gee, I didn’t realize my oppostion to Obama’s socialist, elitist views was motivated by my racism.
Thanks, NYT et al., for showing me the light.
I make me sick.
ernie on April 26, 2008 at 3:51 PM
Its not racist, it is stupid, pointless and McCain has every right to at least get on the record against it if he does not want it associated with his campaign.
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 3:53 PM
Hey, I love Earth Day, what the hell is wrong with that?
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 3:55 PM
I know they fired a black guy a few years ago for making up stories.
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 3:56 PM
This is the best part. The NYT AGREES that Wright is racist and extreme. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t think the NC Republican party is racist for AGREEING with the NYT (because that’s what McCain said after all).
And by putting this in their article. . .
THEY are the ones injecting race into this debate as this wasn’t anywhere in the NC GOP ad. But the SUPREME COURT has ruled that race based affirmative action is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. It must be tough that Jesse Helms was RIGHT AGAIN! We had to deal with being passed over for scholarships and jobs because of UNCONSTITUTIONAL affirmative action. Our public schools were more of a social experiment than a place where we could actually learn (every year they counted the number of blacks and whites and switched people around to make sure the right number were in the right schools. . . do you think that helped or hurt the learning experience?)
I used to think that the Yankee scholars were smart. Now I just see how they make my arguments for me in their own statements.
ThackerAgency on April 26, 2008 at 4:00 PM
With any luck the New York Times will continue to function in its usual dumb ass way and will be forced to close down completely.
rplat on April 26, 2008 at 4:00 PM
I think Obama and the left are just preparing their excuse for the day McCain wins the Presidency. “See!!! We told you! They’re all RAAAAAACIIIIIIISSSSSSTS!!!!!!”
Let them have at it. It’s only driving more and more people away from Obama and the left.
darwin on April 26, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Um, don’t you think maybe he should have watched it first?
WisCon on April 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Racist would be holding black pastors to a much lower standard than we hold all other pastors.
NellE on April 26, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Both their Democrat candidates are irreparable losers, what you gonna do, yell racism. And hope …
tarpon on April 26, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Ummmm I have watch nothing BUT it for the last three days.
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 4:45 PM
McCain has said that Wright’s stuff was off limits in his advertisements. Seems I wouldnt need to watch it to know it goes against my campaigns stated goals.
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Which makes you more informed on the issue then John McCain. Which is kind of the point when one makes judgment on another’s actions.
Spirit of 1776 on April 26, 2008 at 4:47 PM
I presented my own impression of the ad which I have watched not Sen McCains.
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 4:48 PM
I’m talking about McCain, moron.
He didn’t even watch the ad before condemning it.
WisCon on April 26, 2008 at 4:51 PM
If he does sit down and watch it and comes to the exact same conclusion, will that be good enough? The ad looks to have been put together by ametuers. It is slow, the message is not clear, but not racist as far as I was concerned.
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 4:51 PM
I don’t watch Michael Moore’s movies before condeming them.
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 4:53 PM
So you are comparing Michael Moore to the NC GOP? Brilliant, no wonder you’re a McCain fan.
WisCon on April 26, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Moron…classy
I know that and I stated in a previous post that he had already said that Wright was out of bounds for advertisements.
The way to stay consistent is to come out against the ad ahead of its release.
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 4:57 PM
No but you dont need to see the add to know that it would turn out the way it did, pointless and stupid.
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 4:58 PM
Lets see an idiot who puts out books and movies full of baseless left-wing drivel and a comittee who puts out an attack ad that plays 6-degrees of Rev Wright with two Gov Candidates…
Sounds like a brace of idiots to me.
Squid Shark on April 26, 2008 at 5:01 PM
LOL, yeah why bother checking anything? Did you believe McCain when he said that his immigration bill would solve all our border problems? Good thing some people actually read that bill so we could see what it really was.
WisCon on April 26, 2008 at 5:06 PM
Still patiently awaiting your reply on the other thread after you pretended to ask me a “serious” question.
As on the other thread, I see on this one the predictable series of celebrations by “real conservatives” of their own inability to distinguish between the theoretical, rhetorical, and effective content of a political ad.
In theory – the ideal version of the ad’s proponents – the ad merely makes a totally “inbounds” attack on Obama via Wright. Those who follow this line, including many national conservative pundits with whom I often agree down the line, typically accuse anyone who is repelled by the ad of attempting to pre-empt or censor criticism of Wright/Obama/liberals by calling it racist. They make the rather simplistic claim that they just can’t help offending oversensitive people, because after all Wright and Obama are black, and “any” critical ad or other statement would be interpretable as “racist.”
As for the ad on its own rhetorical terms, it claims to be attacking two gubernatorial candidates by way of their endorsement of Obama and the idea that they’re responsible for his poor judgment in attending Wright’s church. Hardly anyone outside of North Carolina even bothers to comment on this aspect of the ad, except in the way that the NYT does, by among other things describing its hypocritically extremist anti-extremism.
In terms of actual effect, the ad is a 100% negative, infantile, multiply divisive attack on the sensibilities of precisely the voters and constituencies that Republicans, in North Carolina as much as anywhere else, should be cultivating and seeking to win over, not insulting. It helps turn the clock back on years of effort by Republicans to present their alternative positive vision on race issues.
The ad’s also been divisive within the Republican Party – and, if you don’t believe me, then you can review the other thread, and see how a series of low-reading-comprehension, pre-fabricated reflexive attacks on me as a (reverse) “racist” supposedly pandering to blacks and soft bigotry etc. etc. because I dared to agree with McCain and his vision for the Republicans, and to try to see the ad for what it is, not just for what its proponents like to imagine it is.
Now, maybe you’ll surprise me with something other than more of the predictable personal insults, which, as I’ve said, in my opinion tend to support the case I’m making.
CK MacLeod on April 26, 2008 at 5:09 PM
So prior to this ad, you believed that they were all idiots, because that is what you are saying. Another brain-dead McCain apologist…
WisCon on April 26, 2008 at 5:10 PM
No, I went to sites like Hot Air and Michelle Malking to get the skinny on the content. I didn’t need to see it after it being explained to me..Nor does McCain need to look at this stupid ad when he had someone look at it and explain it..The ad is stupid and was stated, 6-degrees of Rev Wright. Obama can be attacked with the images of Wright, but this ad is a stretch. It would have been much more effective had it been put together properly.
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 5:34 PM
Not at all. The point is they endorsed Obama. When you endorse someone, you are vouching for their character. The ad further claims that Obama is too extreme for NC voters. Thus, if the person who is endorsed by the gubernatorial candidates is too extreme, the endorsers are too extreme.
No matter how much you want to make this an “stupid rednecks pushing away the black vote” argument, it is not. You can claim, as SquidShark does, that it’s a crappy ad. Putting a racially/diversive or racist spin on it is right out of the NTY/Dem playbook. But hey, just cause you and the NYT agree doesn’t mean we can draw any conlcusions from that, does it?
VolMagic on April 26, 2008 at 5:37 PM
I love scare-quotes. I “really” “really” love “them”
VolMagic on April 26, 2008 at 5:39 PM
The take-home point, to me, is that McCain filters things through his pre-existing perceptions. That reflects poorly on his judgment, I think. It’s worrisome in fact.
I’m curious, Pam, what you think a superior ad, touching the issue presented here, would have been? The ad shows video of Wright, establishes Obama’s connection to him and then criticizes two local pols for endorsing him. Seems a pretty effective use of 20-30 seconds.
Spirit of 1776 on April 26, 2008 at 5:42 PM
They have played the race card so many times that people have become numb to it. The only ones who believe it anymore are the ones playing it.
Dollayo on April 26, 2008 at 5:45 PM
pre-existing perceptions or pre-existing conditions? He has already stated that he is not getting into the Wright issue.
What would a more effective ad been? I would have used more of Obama’s friends, like Wright, Ayers, Rezko..instead of wasting air time on the gal explaining why the NCGOP ran the ad, have more video time with wording below, much like they did with too extreme for us…As I said, this ad was very poorly made. I wouldn’t donate to keep it running, but I would donate to an entirely new ad to take it’s place.
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Let me add that by showing a pattern of poor judgement, you make a stronger case than showing one example of Obama showing poor judgement.
Who is the ad against btw? Is it against Obama or the 2 people mentioned? I am guessing Moore and Perdue, but only because AP explained it above. An effective ad would have spent the 42 seconds wisely and not left the viewer asking “What?”
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 6:00 PM
I haven’t seen the ad. I just presumed the Youtube clip was the ad plus opening and closing comments on the ad itself. In other words, 1)here’s an ad we are running, 2) Ad, 3) donate to help what you just saw keep running. I imagine only #2 is what will be seen on air time.
My follow-up question: What wording is better than extreme? Anti-American rhetoric seems to be extreme to Americans to me.
Spirit of 1776 on April 26, 2008 at 6:01 PM
This point is well-made but it assumes prior knowledge by which reference only makes the case. Here it’s not reference but display.
Spirit of 1776 on April 26, 2008 at 6:03 PM
No it doesn’t. It quite directly says that Barrack Obama is too far to the left for North Carolina, and presents as evidence his having attended Wright’s Church for 20 years. There is other evidence they might have used, but this bit has the most impact – not because of Wright’s color but because of the things he said.
Who is being insulted here? Not blacks as the ad itself has nothing whatever to do with race. The candidates? Their decision to endorse Obama is being attacked, which is not personal and is completely in-bounds. The only people who could be insulted by the ad are the perpetually insulted, people who are constantly on the lookout for new and ever more subtle triggers for their rage. Those people aren’t going to vote for any Republican, and it would be a repudiation of the party’s ideals to cater to them.
jl on April 26, 2008 at 6:03 PM
I think my sentence structure or lack of it put some confusion into the mix. I meant that use wording at the bottom of the screen, under the pictures, like they did with “too extreme for us”. The “too extreme” is okay.
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 6:07 PM
But again, they displayed one incident. Most people will shrug their shoulders at one lapse of poor judgement, but when you have multiple, or a pattern, people seem to pay more attention. There isn’t anything racist in the ad, but I would not donate to keep it on the air. I would donate for a new ad.
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Allah–and everybody else–has anyone commented on the irony here that the most recent prominent story about racism in North Carolina concerned a rush to judgement that a bunch of college lacrosse players MUST have been guilty of rape because they were WHITE?
radjah shelduck on April 26, 2008 at 6:17 PM
You might be right. But I think the Wright thing is far more visceral and it’s impact, in my view, outweighs the other. In fact, I think the other is only has lasting impact because Wright caused a wholesale re-examination in regard to his associations. Rezko was out there before Wright, but only after Wright did it become a significant weight on his campaign. In short, I think 20-30 sec of Wright using that video is effective and to the point. But we can differ.
Spirit of 1776 on April 26, 2008 at 6:20 PM
In my mind there is no “Wright Issue”.
The question is, what does Obama believe? I want to know because I assume that he would act according to his beliefs should he be elected President. Other than uttering platitudes (Hope! Change!) he has been very circumspect, even confusing regarding his core beliefs. In any event, words are cheap so I look to his prior activities and associations for some indication of what’s inside Barrack. What we find is Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn et al and a history of staking out territory on the hard left of the political spectrum-except when he isn’t doing anything. That is what this ad is attempting to explicate, not as a direct attack on Obama, but as self-proclaimed moderates who have endorsed him.
This all seems quite reasonable, unless we are suddenly forbidden to consider what a candidate believes when deciding to vote.
jl on April 26, 2008 at 6:34 PM
Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim, and turds float inevitably to the sea…
ronsfi on April 26, 2008 at 6:36 PM
Liberal Elites Scream Over An Epidemic of Regional Racists
How Kentucky, West Virginia and Racism Could Screw Up the Clinton Exit
Oh No More Bitter White People
Ragnell on April 26, 2008 at 6:39 PM
From Your article linked on the front page-I think it bears some examination on Hirsh’s select use of certain words[savages]–It’s the end of civilization because the bitter people are taking over the nation– Regionalism, the acceptable form of racism
Southernism is taking over our national dialogue. Maybe it’s time for the North to secede from the Union
Ragnell on April 26, 2008 at 6:56 PM
And I think Ayers is the worst of the three. He is an unrepentant killer. He put his words into action and actually took lives. Wright is bad, but out of the two? Hands down, Ayers is the greater of the 2 evils.
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 7:17 PM
I think the majority of us agree on that, but is the MSM that you need to run that by..Just remember, even if you think the man has no credible legislative record to review, even if you think his positions are far too liberal for your liking, even if you think that the man was handed 26 pieces of legislation to put his name on in the IL legislature and basically took credit for everyones else’s work, even if you think he is an elitist snob, and even if you think the man lacks basic common sense, if you don’t vote for him, you are a racist!
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Reminds me that we haven’t heard anymore of the, “much needed dialog on race” that Obama addressed in the greatest speech in the history of spoken language. (Funny how small and petty greatness looks from the distance of a few weeks.) People are going to start thinking that great and powerful speech was just a distraction.
snaggletoothie on April 26, 2008 at 7:34 PM
The ad in no way implies racism or focuses in any way, even implicitly at such. The racial argument is just weak.
Weebork on April 26, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Oops, it appears I’ve gotten a case of the Department of Redundancy Department!
Weebork on April 26, 2008 at 7:52 PM
I agree with you there, I just think Ayers is the less immediately accessible. Video is a damning thing.
Spirit of 1776 on April 26, 2008 at 7:53 PM
Agreed.
Pam on April 26, 2008 at 8:36 PM
Juan “Z-Visa” McCain and Lindsey Grahamnesty agree with the NY Slimes…shocking huh?
DfDeportation on April 26, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Why simplistic? What’s simplistic is falling for Bambi’s strategy of calling every criticism of him racist.
It “claims”? But you know better, I guess. You don’t see the logic in impugning their judgment and values in endorsing Obama, whose execrable judgment and questionable values are clearly and effectively illustrated in the ad?
In your opinion, clearly. Negative attacks are not bad per se, are they? Infantile? Again, I don’t see it. What is infantile about saying to North Carolinians “These people who claim to represent your values and have good judgment have endorsed a leftist wacko, as evidenced by the wacko’s minister of 20 years”? Not sure how the truth is negative, infantile, etc, etc. And how, again, does it help turn back the clock? Is it racist, or not? If it is, how is it? Barry is black, and Wright is black. Associating these black people with white people is racist? The ad, once again, is not critical of the color of their skin, it’s critical of the content of their characters.
“…low-reading-comprehension, pre-fabricated reflexive attacks on me as a (reverse) “racist”…Now, maybe you’ll surprise me with something other than more of the predictable personal insults”
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot. There is no reverse racism. It’s racism, period. Not sure how it’s personally insulting to point out that tip-toeing around blacks and assuming they can’t tell the difference between racism and legitimate criticism is a personal attack. How else am I supposed to point it out?
You keep talking about what the ad “claims” to do. But you know the secret, ulterior motives, right?
Talk about predictable.
misterpeasea on April 26, 2008 at 8:56 PM
The NYT’s editors begin from an assumption that no opinion recognized as racist can impair the opinion that racism is evil. However, racism, like perhaps everything else, is capable of re-evaluation. My opinion that Obama is a very bad candidate for the Americans’ Presidency is unimpaired by charges of racism. On the contrary, given that Obama does seem to be such a spectacularly bad candidate, if the opinion that he’s a bad candidate is racist, then I’m reconciled to holding this racist opinion. Really, I’d rather bathe in racism and swallow a quart of it than lie to myself willingly. If understanding comes at the price of immorality, I choose immorality over self-imposed stupidity.
Kralizec on April 26, 2008 at 9:25 PM
And gee. No one else here seems to be claiming that it’s racist. And nobody, including you, has explained how it’s racist. Stupid, maybe, racist, no.
Using small words and short sentences: How. Is. It. Racist?
misterpeasea on April 26, 2008 at 9:39 PM
I love video and the internet. It’s amazing that I used to use the MSM as my primary source of information, and now I don’t have to. Cool….
Hog Wild on April 26, 2008 at 10:01 PM
“I’ll take newspapers for $500, Alex.”
“Okay. here we go, for $500. Parakeets poop on it in the Empire State.”
“What is the New York Times?”
DING! DING! DING! DING!
whitetop on April 26, 2008 at 10:24 PM
“African-American”?
Harvey Gantt was born in 1943 in Charleston, South Carolina.
He wasn’t born in Africa.
I really wish people would stop using the term “African-American”.
Anyone who was born in the United States of America is an “American”.
Anyone who tries to falsely hyphenate that word is trying to divide us, not unite us. Do not be deceived.
Red Pill on April 26, 2008 at 11:07 PM
That’s just another one of your misreadings turned into a straw man. I never called the ad “racist.” Neither did the NEW YORK TIMES, for that matter. The people who have been bandying that term about are the people who have been defending the ad and in the process insulting those of us who disagree with them.
I’ve described the ad as insensitive and counterproductive, especially regarding African Americans. That is very much not the same as calling the ad “racist.”
I’ve given my opinion that it exploits racially charged words and imagery in a way that is familiar from racist propaganda – which, for hundreds of years and long before TV ads, often employed the following formula: “Look at the prancing, degenerate ____. Look at the ____-lovers. What are you gonna do about it, white man?”
Which again is not to say that the ad is racist, or that its authors are racist, or that its defenders are racist: It is to suggest that the ad is obviously and embarrassingly clumsy and insensitive, and that one possible explanation for its clumsiness and insensitivity would be racism on the part of its authors and advocates – though cynicism and ignorance would be more a likely explanation in most cases, I think.
In my opinion the ad makes conservatives – or at least some conservatives – look almost as blind and nuts as Wright. It does make conservatives look like racists. It can only reinforce the perception among non-conservatives that the Republican Party really is dominated by racists, boors, and antedeluvian morons.
As the saying goes, it’s worse than a crime, it’s a mistake.
Some observers will be less concerned about precise distinctions than I am, and will have no difficulty, and some justification, in declaring the ad obviously racist. I don’t quite share that view, and my guess is that the authors chose simply to ignore the racial resonances of their material. Choosing to believe that one can do so is already to put yourself on one side of the issue, however.
Alternative ways of presenting the same arguments and issues touched on by the ad might lack equivalent simplicity and drama, but they might also demonstrate respect for the audience and for the decency or at least the potential decency of those on the other political side. They wouldn’t have to involve “tip-toeing” or, as suggested in earlier discussion on this subject, “pandering.” They might, however, require some brains, and a political vision a little richer and a bit more attractive than “let’s ostracize the extremists (i.e. – everyone on the other side).”
CK MacLeod on April 27, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Uh. CK? I think somebody has hijacked your nickname:
Now maybe I’m missing the nuance, but when you say you think that African-Americans rightly see a political party trying to inflame a white racial response, I interpret that to mean that you’re calling the ad racist. Or is the NC GOP so devishly clever that they can inflame a racial response WITHOUT a racist ad?
Are you saying you can insult and scapegoat black people without being racist? Again, that’s a whole lot of nuance.
Inevitably racial cues? But not racist? Man, I’m going to have to start wearing boots to wade around in this nuance.
“There they go again” being…non-racist, is that what you were trying to say? My apologies for misinterpreting.
Racially inflammatory, but not racist, right?
Help! Can’t…breathe! Drowning…in…nuance!
Below from
Glaringly obvious echoes of traditional racist messages. But not, you know, racist racist messages. Ugly iconic tradition. But not, err, racist ugly iconic tradition.
But not, I guess, racist racial characteristics, huh?
But not, obviously, racist race-baiters.
Uhm. Not racist, just “Race-baiting….a clear bid to stir bigotry in a Southern state.” But not, of course, racist bigotry.
That’s a whole bunch of nuance you got there, CK.
misterpeasea on April 27, 2008 at 1:27 AM
Uh. CK? I think someone hijacked your nickname:
So they rightly see, you think, a political party trying to inflame a white racial response, but it’s not racist. Nuance.
But not racist racial cues. Nuance.
There they go again being…non-racists? Nuance.
Racially inflammatory, but not racist.
But you never called it “racist.” Check.
But not, you know, “racist.” Check.
misterpeasea on April 27, 2008 at 1:41 AM
All of the passages you quote, Mr PC, support the argument that the ad is racially insensitive. None claims that the ad is intrinsically or objectively racist – or intrinsically or objectively anything. That’s open to interpretation.
As I’ve stated, and re-stated, and as you’ve quoted, I believe the ad is clumsy, offensive, and inflammatory. I don’t think it’s even intelligent enough to be considered representative of any particular ideology, including racism. I do accept the obvious, however, which is that the ad is and will be and has been taken to be racist – as when I suggest, in one of the passages you quote (with typical incomprehension), that African Americans may “see a political party trying to inflame a white racial response to the Democrats and their black frontrunner.”
I don’t know or claim to know what was going through the heads of the NC GOP’s ad makers. I have described how I expected their ad to be received.
The fact, however, that you don’t understand the difference between racism and racial insensitivity, and apparently also don’t seem to understand the difference between saying something wrong and saying something in the wrong way, probably helps explain why you can’t understand why people would be offended by the ad for any reason other than over-sensitivity. You don’t think you’re a racist, you don’t think the NC GOP is run by racists, you don’t think conservatives are racists, so you can’t imagine why anyone would think that something you or they said was insensitive – because to you it’s the same thing. It’s not, though one can easily lead or turn into the other. Racists do make racially insensitive remarks, but not everyone who makes a racially insensitive remark is a racist. And there are doubtless many, many racists who refrain out of self-interest from revealing their thoughts. Indeed, some of the most racially sensitive people also happen to be the worst racists – in both parties, and all over the world.
The makers of the ad may be a lot like you. Maybe they’re convinced that they’re not really racists – though it might be hard to figure out what they think “racism” really is. Maybe they associate racism with weirdos in Nazi drag who believe that there really are well-defined human races, and who follow some brand of white supremacism. Maybe they associate racists with segregationists or the KKK. Whatever the explanation, they don’t think that by merely showing Wright giving his spiel and then by showing a candidate embracing Obama, they suddenly turn themselves into segregationists or neo-Nazi weirdos.
If all they really wanted to do, however, was make the logical argument that Obama associates with extremists as typified by Wright, and that Obama’s endorsers should be held responsible, then they could have presented Wright’s words and other relevant facts without, for example, showing the video – which, after all, has already been widely seen and is readily available to anyone who wants to view it. Instead, they chose to feature the video, and so entered into the realm of aesthetic choices that don’t have any absolute or necessary relationship to what they supposedly most want to argue: They wanted the audience to see and feel the hatred. They wanted to associate Obama with the worst of Wright, without having to confront any question of differences between Wright and Obama, without having to confront Obama’s self-defense, without having to propose any solution to the problems they represent other than rejecting them and everyone who has anything to do with them.
In so doing, the NC GOP and all of its defenders are contributing to the image of the Republican Party as a home for simple-minded self-righteously insensitive hypocrites – people who talk about moving beyond race but don’t hesitate to feed racial hatred, who produce political ads that anyone who really was a racist could approve of wholeheartedly.
Congratulations.
CK MacLeod on April 27, 2008 at 2:46 AM
Gee, CK. It’s like you’re in my head.
You don’t address arguments specifically, I’ve noticed, so let’s take these one at a time:
So, you think they rightly see themselves painted [in this ad] in the worst possible light, and see a political party trying to inflame a white racial response [in this ad]. But the ad isn’t racist? I have to admit, I’m not seeing the difference. Could you maybe explain the difference? And then we can move on to the next nuanced example.
Before we get to my stupidity. And your ability to read the minds of the makers of the ads and divine their motives.
misterpeasea on April 27, 2008 at 3:54 AM
It’s got nothing to do with racism.
No matter what colour Jez Wright was, he’d still be a stone cold crazy nutjob and no matter what colour Obama was his judgement in associated with said nutter is definitely questionable.
I suspect the race baiting BS will fall flat on its face, otherwise we’d have elected the most holy Reverends Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson way back when.
Ares on April 27, 2008 at 6:28 AM
I didnt say I thought they were idiots before this ad, I didnt think about them at all, so you can call me brain-dead and a moron all you want. I still contend that any political organization that would run that ad is not in my party.
Squid Shark on April 27, 2008 at 8:14 AM
No one is making this argument but you, Vol.
This isnt anything of the sort, it is just a stupid ad with no real point and a huge waste of money that wont fool anyone (I hope)
Squid Shark on April 27, 2008 at 8:21 AM
There we go.
Squid Shark on April 27, 2008 at 8:23 AM
Uh, no – let’s not. I reserve the right to ignore nit-picking, gratuitous insults, internet cliches of the “nuance” and “check” and “scare quotes” variety, and to focus, or try to focus, on what I believe are the main issues.
If I were to try to go piece by piece with you through this all – receiving nothing but insults in return for my labors – I’d need to write a virtual book, especially considering the apparent necessity of repeating simple statements and arguments in hopes of finally being understood. For instance:
I guess I’ll need to repeat myself: I don’t take a position on whether or not the ad is “racist” – among other things because I don’t even know what you mean, or think you mean, by the term.
Though I think it’s a fruitless and picayune endeavor to try to hold someone to every word and phrase that might get uttered over the course of several long responses on an internet message board, in this case I have no trouble standing by the particular statement, even if I concede that it may have been too easy to mis-interpret.
Again, in the sentence you cite, as in others you’ve cited, I speculate about how the ad could be expected to be received by a particular group. I say that African Americans may “rightly see themselves painted in the worst possible light”: I believe that very likely the majority of African Americans see Rev Wright in full rant as a horrifying caricature of themselves and specifically of their aspirations to be treated as equal American citizens with leaders and ideas worthy of respect, in a country where, to see the least, that hasn’t always been the case. I wouldn’t blame them at all if they felt that being hit over the head with Wright again, now in the context of a paid political ad, is gratuitous and insulting.
The failure to understand that point strikes me as a basic failure of human sympathy. To you, maybe it’s a side issue. You and your virtual friends appear to think that blacks and their liberal advocates should just “get over it” if that’s how they feel, so that they and others can hear your wonderful inarguable message about how Democratic candidates who support Obama are “too extreme.”
I suspect that in the minds of Obama-supporters in particular (typically 90% of African American voters), Wright’s been discussed, addressed, exposed, and re-discussed already, and the Republicans with this ad are just counting coup on them, humiliating them. Beyond that, the Republicans are by definition trying to exploit this humiliation politically – using it in a political ad.
But I’ve already explained this at length and in multiple ways. Rather than acknowledge or respond to this main point, you prefer instead to focus on the second part of the statement you quote – another stray phrase – repeating your mis-attribution to me of a viewpoint that I am explicitly attributing to someone else.
I’ve already addressed this particular instance directly. Instead of repeating myself, I’ll expand on the underlying point. Yes, it’s very possible, indeed it’s rather common, for the recipients (in this case some number of African Americans) of a message or expression to “see” it and the message-senders as racist, even though there was no conscious racist intention on the part of those message-senders. Aside from going to a typical elementary misreading on your part, this kind of miscommunication goes to what you dismiss as a dubious “nuance” – the difference between racial insensitivity and racism.
It seems to me that any grown-up American whose been at least halfway around the block should already know and have experienced this difference many times, with excesses of sensitivity and insensitivity on both sides. Sometimes it’s easy to excuse, as when a foreigner uses an expression learned in school that has fallen into disrepute in contemporary discourse. Sometimes it’s ridiculous to the point almost of tragedy, as in the notorious recent instance of a government official being pilloried for his correct use of the term “niggardly” (which of course has nothing to do with the “n-word”).
The idea that the NC ad-makers shouldn’t have known how their ad would be received implies that they’re stunningly ignorant of their state’s and their country’s political history and culture. To me as a voter, that really would be disqualifying. The alternative explanations aren’t much better. One would be that they listened to just a tad too much Limbaugh or Hannity that week, got their combative dander up, and decided to just fire away, regardless of the criticisms, consequences, and political effects. That may or may not be disqualifying. It wouldn’t be something to be proud of, in my opinion, I don’t think it’s a very good way to run a campaign or a government, and it makes me think it’s no small wonder that they’ve been having problems in statewide elections in what’s historically been a dependable Republican state in national elections.
CK MacLeod on April 27, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Spot on!
Squid Shark on April 27, 2008 at 1:37 PM
Maybe God knows what substitute for comprehension led you to justify that assertion. My guess is that’s how you generally move from one “thought” to another.
I think I understand now.
misterpeasea on April 27, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Uh-huh, maybe you do understand. Maybe you’ve also noted that many of the excerpts that you’ve chosen to quote from my earlier posts – you do really love my posts, apparently – were my responses to being called a racist, and a pandering one to boot.
Then again, maybe you haven’t understood anything at all. I can’t really tell, and I hope I’ll be forgiven if I remain skeptical.
CK MacLeod on April 27, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Quoting one’s posts is a good way to, you know, quote what they said, when they’re trying to deny it later.
Yeah, you’re the only one who understands things. I’m still trying to figure out how to open the cereal box.
Hey, did you see where Obama’s a racist. That racist jerk actually said Wright was fair game.
But we all know that associating Obama with Wright is racist, and associating folks who endorse Obama with Obama and Wright is extra super racist.
Because if anyone is offended, then the ad is beyond the pale. Which is why Republicans should not make any ads, because there’s a right-thinking individual somewhere who is going to be offended.
Calling Obama elitest? That’s racist. Questioning his judgment? Racist.
Now, your turn to ignore everything I say and repeat yourself.
misterpeasea on April 27, 2008 at 4:50 PM
No it is just extra super stupid.
Remember when we all defended Hagee’s endorsement of McCain? Ok….
How about we just stop making reachy, 6-degrees of Rev Wright ads and attack Obamas own statements, those are more than enough. John McCain concurs.
Squid Shark on April 27, 2008 at 5:03 PM
You’ve now convinced me that you may really be incapable of recognizing elementary distinctions. Otherwise, I don’t think you’d try being snarky based on presumptions that have already and repeatedly been challenged directly and in detail. Leaving aside the “racist” slur and your insistence on pretending that you and your friends are the ones being reflexively and unjustifiably called racists, maybe the next time you go poring over my posts you can note the several times that I insisted that Wright and the issues the Obama-Wright relationship raise are “fair game,” even as I strongly disagreeed with the NC ad’s particular approach.
If you do take a look, please feel free not to share the results of your research. As for cereal boxes, you may very well possess the subtlety of mind that it takes to differentiate the top from the bottom, and open from closed. As for matters beyond such simple binary oppositions, based upon your performance here, I can have no confidence in your powers of discernment.
CK MacLeod on April 27, 2008 at 5:37 PM
I concur also.
I also regret that this discussion has gotten so personal, and has been so dominated either by my posts or by references to them. I think and hope I’m done here.
CK MacLeod on April 27, 2008 at 5:49 PM
I rather enjoyed the exchange. It was an interesting psychological study. Thank you both for taking the time.
shibumiglass on April 27, 2008 at 8:38 PM
You’re dazzling me with your big words. Really.
I didn’t accuse you of calling me racist. I’m pretty sure I didn’t call you a racist, either. I asked you, because I don’t think you can have it both ways. Either the ad is racist (and you’ve come down on both sides of that question, I think you currently say it’s not), or it’s not racist and the dumb blacks are going to think it’s racist.
And/or someone, somewhere, is going to be offended. Someone, somewhere, is always offended.
It doesn’t give you even a moment’s pause when you see that you
agreeconcur with the NY Times editorial page?misterpeasea on April 27, 2008 at 9:02 PM
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