“He that speaketh lies shall not escape.” Proverbs 19:5

Isn’t that obvious?

Esthier on April 29, 2008 at 4:51 PM

Unfortunately no. The Bible is a weapon in the hand of the Christian.

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword.” Hebrews 4:12

2 Timothy 3:16 states that, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

“For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” Romans 10:11

I wrote that a Christian should not argue with a non-Christian starting with the given that the Bible is 100% true.

Esthier on April 29, 2008 at 4:51 PM

What a moron.

apacalyps on April 29, 2008 at 3:32 PM

Obviously ignoring you doesn’t work. But seriously, how is it possible for you to completely mangle my comments like you do?

I wasn’t saying that Christians don’t believe the Bible is true.

Seriously, look back and read what I actually wrote. I wrote that a Christian should not argue with a non-Christian starting with the given that the Bible is 100% true.

Isn’t that obvious?

The non-Christian doesn’t agree that the Bible is true, so you can’t argue with a non-Christian and assume that the non-Christian will accept that the Bible is accurate.

In layman’s terms, what I’m saying is that you can’t have a legitimate discussion with someone who is not a Christian over whether or not God exists by using the Bible as proof.

It’s a logical fallacy, since the non-Christian will not accept the Bible as proof.

Seriously, do not bother commenting to me anymore. You’re a hateful person, and I want nothing to do with you. Even if you suddenly learned how to talk to people online without insulting them, it would only be too little too late.

Here is the correct one.

Evidence that the Earth was rapidly formed and did not cool over millions of years.

Earlier I presented a partial list of evidence that must be accounted for in order for your ridiculous assertions to be accepted. You can’t answer the evidence so you ignore it.

ronsfi on April 29, 2008 at 6:55 AM

I don’t see the point in spending what to me is valuable time answering every little hateful attack from people like you when they are just like Doritos: Defend away, we’ll make more. Everything on that “list” you posted can be disproven. Besides, the topic at hand was the issue of the preserved soft tissue, including possible blood vessels and red blood cells, that are turning up in dinosaur fossils. That is credible evidence of a young earth and that Dinosaurs are not million of years old. Furthermore, I posted evidence that the Earth was rapidly formed and did not cool over millions of years. It appears you conveniently overlooked that discovery as well. Evolution teaches that in the beginning there was nothing then it exploded. This is what you believe. Even though everyone knows that that matter could not come from nothing exploding.

And yet there it is. Preserved for 68 million years as evidenced by 68 million year old fossil it was found in.

ronsfi on April 29, 2008 at 6:55 AM

hahahaha….oh, this is too much. Look buds, as I posted before, it qualifies as “wishful thinking” to believe soft tissue from a T-Rex Dinosaur could last 68 million years…. even if kept frozen in liquid nitrogen in a lab… Ronsfi, I think the problem you’re having here is comprehending 68 millions years — how long that is. I think 100 years is a long time. And that 500 years is a long time. 5000 years too. Let’s try 100,000 years. Okay 500,000 thousand years. We’re talking about 68 million years and I think you really have to put this into perspective that it would seem impossible for such soft tissue structures to be preserved intact even for that long.

No believer can argue with a nonbeliever beginning with the given that the Bible is perfect.

Esthier on April 29, 2008 at 9:40 AM

I really didn’t want to respond to Esthier here, but this is too much. I think this women suffers from Tourette blurting (no offense to those who have the awful condition). Esthier (ie, the liberal Christian) stop making these false statements on behalf of all Christians. What you have stated is NOT true and not supported by Scripture. The majority of Christians believe the Bible to be the perfect and true Word of God. Look, if you have the urge to lie, take a deep breath, and shout out “dandelions!” or “little fuzzy bunnies!” or “sunshine and M&Ms!” or “peaches, instead!”

If the first page is anything to go by, this is about 90% ‘god exists!’ ‘no he doesn’t!’ and 10% to do with the actual story.

Bugger.

Reaps on April 29, 2008 at 2:21 PM

Yes, that’s about right, with a little “you’re stupid!” “no, you’re stupid!” thrown during talks about dinosaurs and feces.

Then again, that’s pretty much the tenor of any post even remotely related to religion.

Bugger.

Still hard to believe such officers would exist in the army. How on earth would they able to cooperate with the rest of the coalition armies?

So he could call the Bible fiction, and all who believe it cultists? And claim they were impervious to facts?

tom on April 29, 2008 at 10:20 AM

Very likely. Some people are almost angry that religious beliefs still exist in the world and that people haven’t moved “beyond” them, as though that will somehow be the end of conflict in the world without realizing that people fight irrespective of their religious beliefs.

That should be evidence here, where like-minded people get into fights over the very small differences between us, but the promise of an earthly utopia can blind people to the truth of human nature.

But that’s just common sense. I don’t understand why you spent time putting that thought into this thread. No one has tried to argue otherwise.

Esthier on April 29, 2008 at 9:40 AM

So he could call the Bible fiction, and all who believe it cultists? And claim they were impervious to facts?

Of course, it’s the pot calling the kettle black…

The Bible is fiction no better than the Hindu Veda, the Buddhist Tipitaka or the old Norse tales for that matter. The old Nordic and Germanic gods are no longer worshiped by many and the old writings live on as literary fiction. The same will eventually be the destiny of the Bible and the other ‘holy’ books.
…..
Annar on April 29, 2008 at 7:19 AM

Wishful thinking. Sorry, I guess you’ll just have to cope with it.

And now like Esthier, I am through with you. Feel free to smile.

Oldnuke on April 28, 2008 at 11:50 PM

Welcome to the club! Refreshments are to your left.

If one chooses to argue starting from the premise that the Bible (or some other sacred tome) is the unerring word of their deity and all must accept this as axiomatic then rational discussion of religion, except with fellow cultists, is impossible.

Annar on April 29, 2008 at 7:19 AM

Though your tone is needlessly inflammatory you are correct. No believer can argue with a nonbeliever beginning with the given that the Bible is perfect.

But that’s just common sense. I don’t understand why you spent time putting that thought into this thread. No one has tried to argue otherwise.

If one chooses to argue starting from the premise that the Bible (or some other sacred tome) is the unerring word of their deity and all must accept this as axiomatic then rational discussion of religion, except with fellow cultists, is impossible.

apacalyps on April 28, 2008 at 8:15 PM

And yet there it is. Preserved for 68 million years as evidenced by 68 million year old fossil it was found in. Those whacky science cultists! With their strange ideas like “Mathematics” and “Chemistry”. Clearly they need to be thrown out completely and replaced with the ravings of cave dwelling half starved Roman fanatics who we know must be right because they swear God told them. You keep harping on this as though it proves the earth is 6000 years old. Common sense says this tissue can’t be 68 million years old? Apparently the same common sense the tells you that, despite the mountains of evidence of the ancient origins of the universe, It was all magically created by some extra-dimensional wizard who just made all look ancient eff with heads. Apparently extra-dimensional wizards find that a real knee slapper! Silly humans. Earlier I presented a partial list of evidence that must be accounted for in order for your ridiculous assertions to be accepted.
ronsfi on April 28, 2008 at 2:41 AM

You can’t answer the evidence so you ignore it.

Thanks for clogging another thread with your mental diarrhea.

Bible is an ancient collection of stupid, contradictory and immoral tales.

freevillage on April 29, 2008 at 12:20 AM

You’re red shirt goes well with your eyes…

show me one fact posted here that I have not accepted.

Bible is an ancient collection of stupid, contradictory and immoral tales.

Which part am I lying about?

Oldnuke on April 28, 2008 at 11:50 PM

You’ve lied about alot of things and Rose was right to call you out regarding the things you said about fundamental Christians. Thank you Rose. For instance, you said, “Their beliefs (ie, fundamental Christians) run very deep and they will accept no dissenting views as valid no matter the facts that support them.) That is a bold faced lie. I’m asking you again Oldnuke, show me one fact posted here that I have not accepted.

Well, to simplify in a nutshell, you believe everything alive today came from a rock. Isn’t that right?

apacalyps on April 28, 2008 at 8:37 PM

I’d hardly call prokaryotes “rocks”.

Mindcrime on April 28, 2008 at 8:48 PM

You don’t even understand your own theory, buds. Folks, with alot of these evolutionists, you must remind them what their own theory teaches because they don’t know. You believe you came from a rock.

apacalyps on April 28, 2008 at 11:16 PM

I’m disappointed in you too, but not much. I had no ulterior motive. My questions were sincere. I don’t expect you to believe that however.

Here’s the Fundamental Baptist Statement of Faith. Point out what you disagree with? I’d like an answer.

Never said I disagreed with it.

Wow. You’re a liar too. Well, those are your principles, and if they don’t like them… you have others. Show for us one fact in this thread that I have not accepted? Which views do you speak of?

Which part am I lying about? Don’t your beliefs run deep? Or the accepting other beliefs part. I couldn’t lie about that it’s just my opinion which you reject.

Naturally, I categorically reject this unfortunate ad hominem attack. No falsehood on the part of me has been demonstrated.

That wasn’t an attack. It was a statement about myself indicating my beliefs, which you rejected.

This is an attack.

Wow. You’re a liar too. Well, those are your principles, and if they don’t like them…

. Folks, don’t let liberal Christians like Oldnuke and Esthier manipulate you into changing your convictions regarding what you know the Scriptures really say.

Nowhere did I give you any indication that I was a Christian liberal or otherwise.

And now like Esthier, I am through with you. Feel free to smile.

Esthier, as I said prior to this I found your exchange with apacalyps interesting. … That’s why I made my query about denomination.

Oldnuke on April 27, 2008 at 11:06 PM

Ah, yes, Oldnuke. I have to say I’m a little dissapointed. See, I suspected you were up to no good asking your “innocent questions” of me, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Sad to say it turns out you’re just a sneak with an ulterior motive to undermine God’s Word. Y’know, the good Lord Jesus said “Ye shall know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:16). Wise words indeed.

It all sounded very familiar and I wasn’t surprised when he (I think he) confirmed that he was a Fundamental Baptist.

Here’s the Fundamental Baptist Statement of Faith. Point out what you disagree with? I’d like an answer.

Their beliefs run very deep and they will accept no dissenting views as valid no matter the facts that support them.

Wow. You’re a liar too. Well, those are your principles, and if they don’t like them… you have others. Show for us one fact in this thread that I have not accepted? Which views do you speak of?

My paternal Grandfather and Grandmother were Fundamental Baptists. When I was about fifteen I stopped even trying to engage in meaningful dialog with anyone of that religious persuasion.

Naturally, I categorically reject this unfortunate ad hominem attack. No falsehood on the part of me has been demonstrated. Folks, don’t let liberal Christians like Oldnuke and Esthier manipulate you into changing your convictions regarding what you know the Scriptures really say. Search out the truth diligently asking the Lord to reveal it to you and He will. Your spiritual investigation on any topic should always start with the spiritual investigation of the person. Do they line up with the Word, not just on the topic at hand, but with other important spiritual topics as well.

Insults Correction from a Christian. Is that how you follow the Bible?

I’m done with you.

Esthier on April 27, 2008 at 10:20 PM

Great (smiles). Easier on me than having to deal with your stupid analogies. You call yourself a “Christian”, but you sound more like a scoffer to me, casting doubt on God’s Word at every opportunity you get. This is the type of thing that makes me so nervous about people like you following their own teachings. I see what you say as being totally foreign to God’s Word, and I get real nervous when somebody teaches something where we have to have a guru to explain it. Now you have a cult. Re-read this thread. At every opportunity you challenge the Bible and the way God said He created the world, and you don’t offer a shred of evidence in the way of Scripture to substantiate what you say. You doubt the 6 literal, 24-hour creation days in Genesis, the flood account, you challenge God by implying He did not perfectly preserve His Words in the Holy Bible. What you’re doing is calling God a liar. You’re saying, “I see God you wrote it that way, but I don’t believe that’s how you did it.” It called “idolatry” (making up a non-existent god to suit yourself) and it’s a very serious sin. The Bible tells us clearly in Exodus 20:11, God made everything in six days. Everything in heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that in them is. And if the average layman cannot understand that verse, then the Bible is incapable of being understood. Whether you like it, or not Esthier, the requirements for being a Christian is that he/she believes and accepts the whole teaching of the Bible. The Bible’s simplest interpretation is for a young earth creation account. A Christian cannot just ignore part of the Scripture and still claim to be a Christian.

Yes, there are those out there that are jerks about it, and unfortunately they are the ones that get all of the attention, but that doesn’t mean that atheists shouldn’t be able to get together to talk about things pertinant to their beliefs.

Not trying to be a bully or thug here but WHAT BELIEFS?????

By definition, atheists hold that you live your life and die. That’s it. What is there to discuss?

It’s been just over three years. I wasn’t a single parent, just geographically, but I do have a bum knee.

the goddess anna on April 28, 2008 at 9:13 PM

Sorry if I made it sound if I was putting you in the category of single parent. I firmly believe that you can’t serve in the military and single-handedly raise children. It isn’t fair to either the nation or the children.

That being said, you chose a career path where you were in the Navy but not exactly. Your skills sent you to the whole NSA world instead of into the fleet. The Navy needs those skills but the primary mission of the Navy lies elsewhere. My Dad was in intelligence and I am part of the surface Navy. Our experiences are completely different.