The nanny state, explained
posted at 9:09 pm on April 25, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Jon Henke at QandO wonders why this particular Hillary Clinton quote from last September hasn’t received much attention:
“We can talk all we want about freedom and opportunity, about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but what does all that mean to a mother or father who can’t take a sick child to the doctor?” she asked.
I just finished watching the excellent HBO series John Adams last Sunday. It tells the story of our nation’s birth and the sacrifice many of our founders made to create a free nation. They wanted a nation with government limited to just enough power to keep the peace and defend the nation. They didn’t conceive of the idea that a free people would trade their fortunes and freedom to create a government that would dictate choices to them in a manner far more egregious than George III.
Of course, this quote comes as a piece with another Hillary winner, from 2004:
We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.
This came from an explanation from Hillary about canceling the Bush tax cuts. She saw the money supposedly lost in revenue as belonging to the government, rather than the people who earned it. Hillary, and the statists like her, don’t really believe in private property, at least not as a right that stands up to government authority. Further, they believe that individuals are less capable of acting in their self interest than bureaucrats. Under those circumstances, it makes sense to take more and more private property and control over American citizens.
That’s why concepts like freedom, opportunity, and liberty get discounted by statists. They see these as unreal, fantasy concepts, which is why they look elsewhere for their values. They don’t understand the basic values that serve as the foundation for the Constitution and the nation. Our founders would never have tolerated a federal government that set itself up as the dispensary of all services to all people. In fact, had they encountered one, they would have thrown a party in response — much like the one they threw in Boston just before the revolution.
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Medical care is so expensive because of gov’t involvement.
jgapinoy on April 25, 2008 at 9:13 PM
Just finished watching Bill IO’Reilly talk with Laura Ingraham. They mentioned that a THIRD of Planned Parenthood’s BILLION DOLLAR budget comes from OUR tax dollars. Never mind that many are opposed to Planned Parenthood. Never mind that nobody is saying that Planned Parenthood is not free to raise whatever funds they want through the private sector. No, thanks to Mrs. Clinton and others like her the government believes in giving money to this organization because elites think it’s the proper thing to do.
radjah shelduck on April 25, 2008 at 9:15 PM
The gov’t sucks
mred on April 25, 2008 at 9:16 PM
The problem is that politicians looking for votes must pander to people, offering them something they claim the government can provide.
From there, a nanny state is only natural as people give away basic needs to the government.
Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 9:20 PM
You know what you get with a Nanny State?
A nation full of babies who can’t care for themsevles.
EJDolbow on April 25, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Don’t miss Rev. Wright on Moyers. Ahole no. 1.
mred on April 25, 2008 at 9:26 PM
Part of the problem is the schools and universities. Too often we don’t teach and aren’t taught any other way – the government is presented as the only logical source for solutions to everything from healthcare to jobs to housing.
It takes some some real understanding to see why the free market works better, and our kids aren’t taught that understanding – unless they get it from parents or find it for themselves, or are lucky enough to have a teacher who’s the exception.
Rosmerta on April 25, 2008 at 9:27 PM
Excuse my niavete, but I hear this all the time and I’m pretty sure it’s true, I just don’t know the specifics of why. I’ve never really had it explained I guess. Anyone care to take on the challenge?
loganthompson on April 25, 2008 at 9:30 PM
She also wants to take away oil company profits – as if that would serve any useful purpose. She and her liberal ilk are obsessed with inequality. To them, inequality is like a sharp nail that sticks up, and the only tool they can see to hit it with is redistribution. Through Wellesley and the Ivy League, she has been fed a steady IV drip of Marxist doctrine. She is incapable of understanding free market econ.
whitetop on April 25, 2008 at 9:31 PM
The revolution continues, only now it is being fought with votes, all good patriots should endeavor to bring forth and or support candidates with values that mirror the founding fathers.
Alden Pyle on April 25, 2008 at 9:31 PM
Just a matter of time before one of these slick-Willys hands out proscriptions instead of prescriptions. The plebs will vote for it because it’ll be offered free.
Anyone have a spare fiddle?
Limerick on April 25, 2008 at 9:32 PM
” miseducated of a people” Ask B Ayers?
mred on April 25, 2008 at 9:32 PM
Oh here we go,Hillarys “It takes a village”!
But me thinks this is an updated version for Adults,
might as well call it what it is!
Hillarys “It takes a State”,baby sitting and one stop
shopping for all your social needs,how socialist of
Hillary!
canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 9:35 PM
States using health insurance to force types coverage.
mred on April 25, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Government (and to a lessor extent, insurance) break the linkage between payee and provider. There is no incentive for the patient, who is no longer also the payee, to seek economical care, or even look at the bills. So the provider can charge literally whatever they desire.
Then government makes it illegal to charge private payers a different rate than the gvmt rate, so even offering charity becomes dicey.
Rodent on April 25, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Which was 1 and which was 2?
And what is the deal with Moyers opening the show by sitting in the shadows reading a book? At least Fred Rogers opened the door and came in before becoming obnoxious.
Ah, that’s right. Same network. Fred Rogers (and Jim Henson) could not be reached for comment.
Del Dolemonte on April 25, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Have you ever seen the ads on TV for those powered wheelchairs? Medicare pays the providers of those wheelchairs over $4000.00.
ordi on April 25, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Once Nanny moves in, you will never get her out. And Nanny never lets you know what she is truly like as a resident until she’s completely moved in and comfortable. Nanny never gives back once she has taken from you.
shaken on April 25, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Ed, call them what they are – Socialists.
Ben Johnson’s FrontPage Essay gives excellent insight into the woman’s past. The more I read, the scarier she becomes.
Problem is, Comrade Obama and Senator McCain give me the same chills.
SeniorD on April 25, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Why must the two concepts – freedom and security – be placed as antipodes?
We can’t have both? That is, some level of healthcare for poor children or those incapable of caring for themselves (incapable not unwilling) as well as freedom and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The problem with the statists is that they’re not satisfied with a minimal state that provides for those extreme cases of want. They wish to ever expand the state, increasing its size and scope in their quest for a perfectly egalitarian society.
And in doing so, they’ll eventually extinguish liberty.
SteveMG on April 25, 2008 at 10:07 PM
Here is another famous quote from the Hill, circa 1994.
“Every American deserves quality health care that can never be taken away.”
Q1: What level of quality does she mean, high , low, non existent.
Q2: Why would she say “can never be taken away” unless she intents to use the threat of ‘taking away’ as a means of enforcement.
I think she didn’t finish the sentence. The missing part should read, “as long as all of my mandates are complied with”.
If government ever has a monopoly on providing health care, it then has all the coercive power it needs.
Of course, look for all the great hospital systems to set up shop in the Bahamas. Take a cruise to see your doctor.
But, “he says you godda pay him cash”. That’s “Life in the fast lane”.
esblowfeld on April 25, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Embarrassing, and sickening.
What is that line the lefties are always quoting?
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
- NOT Benjamin Franklin
They ain’t foolin’ anybody.
misterpeasea on April 25, 2008 at 10:20 PM
If Obama had real balls, or the moral grounding for it, he’d hit her over the head, over and over, with this one…alas…he’s to the left of her…waaaay over to the left.
Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 10:34 PM
FloatingRock on April 25, 2008 at 10:34 PM
Regardless of who said it it’s still a fantastic and true quote.
FloatingRock on April 25, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Any lefties using that quote must be doing so in a very selective fashion. Generally speaking it is they who are most enthusiastic to trade our liberty for a false sense of security.
FloatingRock on April 25, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Oh Hillary of Rodham, won’t you at least buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
The uptown folks drive Porsches, they must make amends.
Worked hard watching Oprah most of my time, no help from my friends,
So Hillary of Rodham, won’t you at least buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
Oh Hillary of Rodham, won’t you buy me a health care plan?
Working to pay for it myself is too hard on me.
I want to get prescription drugs and a doctor for free,
So Hillary of Rodham, won’t you buy me a health care plan ?
Oh Hillary of Rodham, won’t you buy me a retirement on the town ?
Prove that you’ll take care of me and buy my next round.
Oh Hillary of Rodham, won’t you buy me that big house down the block that I found?
I’m counting on you, Hillary of Rodham, please don’t let me down.
- JJ
MB4 on April 25, 2008 at 10:45 PM
I like Patrick Henry’s better:
“Give me liberty, or give me death!”
Et tu Brute on April 25, 2008 at 10:51 PM
If Obama had real balls..
Entelechy on April 25,2008 at 10:34PM.
Entelechy: Too late,Hillary has the keys to Obama’s
Testicle Lock Box,wait till Michelle Obama
gets wind of this! Ha ha.
canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 10:53 PM
Ah, “the common good”. This has been much cited by commies. Pity no one remembers this anymore.
thatcher on April 25, 2008 at 10:57 PM
I like Patricks better..
“Give me Liberty or give me death”
Et tu Brute on April 25,2008 at 10:51PM.
Et tu Brute: I like that saying as well,for MB4
and Indy Conservative,it should read,
“Vote for McCain or Give me Obama” Ha Ha!
canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 10:58 PM
You’re a veritable font of parodies. You MUST get in touch with Paul Shanklin, parodist for the star.
——————–
As applied to the eeeevil Patriot Act, et al.
misterpeasea on April 25, 2008 at 10:59 PM
The way things are going in this country I hope more American’s will learn to understand and appreciate that quote.
That, and:
“A little revolution now and then is a good thing; the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” –Thomas Jefferson
FloatingRock on April 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM
There is a terrific quiz over at The Peoples Cube on famous collectivists quotes. Not surprising is how many are attributed to Hillary. Enjoy!
dmann on April 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM
You’re a vertiable font of parodies..
misterpeasea on April 25,2008 at 10:59PM.
misterpeasea: I agree wholeheartily!
And I third the nomination of MB4 as Font,lyrics
extradanare,a Rambrant of Verbal Masterpieces aching
to be set free in a World that so desperately needs it!
canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 11:05 PM
dmann, the word “collectivists” brings back too many horrible memories. These people don’t know what they wish for, threy really don’t.
Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 11:08 PM
The quote does them far more harm than good. For example, as it applies to the 2nd amendment and gun control.
FloatingRock on April 25, 2008 at 11:10 PM
They really don’t, that is.
…and canopfor, don’t give MB4 too much encouragement. We might run out of storage capacity :)
Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 11:10 PM
Selective…yep. They usually leave out the ‘essential’ and ‘temporary’. They’re using it in terms of the government doing its real job, and protecting its citizens. Those words make a big difference in that context. That’s why they leave them out.
bikermailman on April 25, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 11:08 PM
It is an evil word, its definition is the antithesis of Democracy!
dmann on April 25, 2008 at 11:15 PM
We might run out of storage capacity:)
Entelechy on April 25,2008 at 11:10PM.
Entelechy: Ha Ha, to the tune of Cheap Trick,ain’t
that a shame!
Hey ya wanna know whatsa kicker,Its my
birthday today,and Hot Air debuted on
my birthday! COOL!
canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 11:17 PM
Happy Birthday!
bikermailman on April 25, 2008 at 11:18 PM
Thanks team,I’m on the Radar site,where going to get
railed with a Severe Thunderstorm!
canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 11:21 PM
…….. again, while she was talking and this father holding a sick child in his arms, 30 million illegal immigrants just walked into your local emergency room, received care, information on welfare benefits, social security benefits, housing aid, food stamps, education benefits, and an unsecured loan with no proof of citizenship or income all provided by the Democratic Party of the United States of America, and you, yes you, are going to pay for it all.
Anyone buy gas today? How about food?
Time to stand up and say “STOP!!!!!!”
Seven Percent Solution on April 25, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Feliz cumpleanos!
VinyFoxy on April 25, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Herzlichen Gluckwunsch zum Geburtstag!
Sigy on April 25, 2008 at 11:26 PM
Too many young history students in America wasted so much of their time remembering names and dates in order to pass the tests that they failed to learn the most valuable lessons of history. I’ve always felt that history was too important to reduce to a memory exercise.
FloatingRock on April 25, 2008 at 11:27 PM
It has been said that democracy fails when the people realize they can vote themselves money from the treasury. Considering that we spend half the federal budget on “entitlements,” I wonder if we’re not there yet.
Kafir on April 25, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Have a merry one there canopfor old chap.
Holmes on April 25, 2008 at 11:30 PM
I’m far from well off. But I DETEST the nanny state. My two main tests for prez candidates are strong national defense and individual freedom/responsibility (anti-nanny state). Government is not the answer; government is part of the problem. Less government is better government.
petefrt on April 25, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Two things:
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
That solution seems to have a beneficial effect on your powers of perception and logic. I hate needles, could I just quaff it?
misterpeasea on April 25, 2008 at 11:34 PM
canopfor, e-hugs and e-kisses :) I had no idea today is HA’s birthday too. I must have missed that note. You stay out of the storm, and be safe. We need your encouragement here.
dmann and FloatingRock, indeed. They are clueless. It’s all blind Utopic idealism. FR, there are very few really good history professors. History is what happened, not what anyone wishes would have happened. Agree on all the years, and the lack of substance.
Kafir, we are the whores, and no others. Only we are to blame.
This is a great article, by a liberal, Mr. Paul Krugman. You won’t be sorry you read it, really.
Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 11:35 PM
If we aren’t already we are fast on the way and accelerating briskly, based on the presidential candidates we have to choose from.
FloatingRock on April 25, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Did you mean Hillary, from the front picture of this thread? :)
Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Not if McCain beats them to it.
FloatingRock on April 25, 2008 at 11:43 PM
I forgot the best part of the article
FL, you’re pessimistic, lately. Cheer up. It could have been the year from real hell, and it turned out to be not bad. And this gladiator fight is gratis. I don’t diminish all which is happening around us, but I’m not as depressed as I note some of you persist in being. No way to fight.
Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 11:46 PM
Sorry, FR (FloatingRock) – message, above, was for you.
Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 11:47 PM
I’m not depressed, I’m disaffected.
America is at an intersection and all of the paths lead to ruin—our votes will only help to determine whether we take the freeway or the highway. A path should be available for us to continue as a viable sovereign nation governed by a Constitutional government but that’s not even an option.
FloatingRock on April 26, 2008 at 12:06 AM
Sadly, FloatingRock, I agree with you. It will be a long, and somewhat slow decline, but it surely has begun, and no one, from any party, will stop it. Zetterson and I were lamenting about it today, in fairly long comments, both in the headlines and the threads. Those of us born after the 2nd ward have lived the best of times in America, and a few other places. I’m worried about the next generations. They won’t even know the difference, and maybe that is a flicker of light.
Entelechy on April 26, 2008 at 12:23 AM
S/b “second war”, silly E.
Entelechy on April 26, 2008 at 12:24 AM
FloatingRock, I wonder what happened with Spirit of 1776. I miss him here.
Entelechy on April 26, 2008 at 12:28 AM
Usually my friend it is darkest just before the dawn. Usually.
Holmes on April 26, 2008 at 12:28 AM
Good question. Chances are everything’s OK, just a change of habits. Let’s hope it’s temporary.
A toast to the dawn, then.
FloatingRock on April 26, 2008 at 12:43 AM
I remember that one well. Gems like that are best kept for if Sen. Clinton somehow pulls off the nomination. As of right now, the Messiah still has the edge and his faithful followers will ignore and excuse his every fault for a long list of flawed reasons. Sen. Clinton should NEVER be underestimated but right now Obama needs to be exposed for the disaster he would certainly be as POTUS. Think of it as WWII in a way. Europe (Obama) first, then Japan (Clinton). That may be an exceptionally poor comparison but to me it is a war, a war for our values and liberties of this nation.
Yakko77 on April 26, 2008 at 12:44 AM
Some articles are excellent. This one’s a jewel.
Entelechy on April 26, 2008 at 12:57 AM
Excuse me if I’m being stupid again, but I thought that freedom and opportunity go hand in hand as a means of possibly obtaining ones goals or needs – not a guarantee?
OldEnglish on April 26, 2008 at 1:01 AM
This country is going to cease to exist as we know it now. I’m giving it 15 years at the most. After this election, it could be shorter than that.
cjs1943 on April 26, 2008 at 1:06 AM
Life, Liberty and the
PursuitGuarantee ofHappinessGovernment Entitlements.Kini on April 26, 2008 at 1:11 AM
It takes a pillage.
profitsbeard on April 26, 2008 at 1:13 AM
Medical care is so expensive because of liberal litigation.
Like 30-40% more.
Speakup on April 26, 2008 at 1:14 AM
Not stupid, just old fashioned. Welcome to the New Way, where all of your needs will be provided for you in exchange for your freedom—-That is, until such time as you become accustomed to the yoke around your neck, when your needs will be traded for the privilege and luxury of those who control your reigns.
All hail the elite!
FloatingRock on April 26, 2008 at 2:01 AM
I might as well just cut & paste an old entry from my blog about the government running health care:
—————————————–
Lets talk about “free” health care:
Both Hillary and Obama (and 3/4ths of Congress) are promising ‘free’ universal health care if you elect them to be President.
Let me tell you about just a couple of things that I have personally experienced with just Medicare:
Occasionally, over the last three and a half years or so, my mother has had to use oxygen. She doesn’t need it constantly, just once or twice a month for a couple of hours.
Medicare (that is, the taxpayers) has been picking up the tab for her oxygen concentrator until a month ago when I bought her own machine. They (Medicare) have been paying $435 a month for a machine that retails for less than $800 new, and under $500 used/re-certified for medical use, and two hundred bucks or so off eBay, not certified, but completely functional and safe…
So, so far the taxpayers of America have paid over $14,000 for her occasional use of a machine that could have been purchased in quantity for about what they pay for one month’s use.
Then there is her medication. She has a lot of chronic but not life-threatening problems, and the taxpayers are paying for 8 prescriptions; Let me just tell you about the newest medication: An anti-psychotic prescribed just because of one kind of odd episode that upset the people at her nursing home: (she is back home now with me providing full time care) Medicare paid $600 last month for some pills that I can purchase at my local pharmacy for cash for $218.00. I haven’t been able to get a precise breakdown on all of her medication, but I’d estimate you suckers are paying about ten thousand dollars a month for pills that would actually cost about a thousand dollars a month if I paid cash for them.
And you morons want government to take over ALL health care for everyone, ‘cradle to grave’???
Doesn’t the fact that socialistic medical care costs ten times as much money and provides 1/4 the level of service bother you just a bit?
I mean, really, our medical care administrative system is definitely broken, but do you, as a taxpayer, really want to have your tax rates doubled or tripled to add another level or two of government bureaucracy to take care of people you don’t know or even particularly care about in any personal way???
LegendHasIt on April 26, 2008 at 2:10 AM
This might be worth it’s own thread. I dunno, maybe not.
From a Dailykos poll of commenters -
Would you support or oppose a law requiring a nationwide ban on semi-automatic handguns?
Strongly support 1216 votes – 54 %
Somewhat support 255 votes – 11 %
Somewhat opposed 279 votes – 12 %
Strongly opposed 416 votes – 18 %
No opinion 45 votes – 2 %
MB4 on April 26, 2008 at 2:50 AM
Apologies in advance for beating a dead horse…
Medical care in the US is a government cluster-frak from top to bottom.
First, there is a government-sanctioned monopoly on health care — only doctors can prescribe drugs, holding oneself out to be a doctor without being one is illegal, etc. One could say that this serves a quality control function, except that….second, the government limits the supply, in that most medical programs at public universities turn away applicants by the score.
Third, the government has intervened in the drug market such that it costs millions to qualify new drugs with the FDA. This means that the payoff for any such concoction has to be evaluated against the barrier to entry.
Fourth, public health care has been warped from an emphasis on prevention to an emphasis on crisis management. Prevention just isn’t “sexy” enough to fund when there are alternatives like bridges to nowhere or office buildings with legislators’ names on them.
Fifth, medicare has led a generation to believe that health care is not their problem once they reach a certain age. Food is. Housing is. Health care is not. Go figure.
Sixth, by giving employer-provided health care a special status in the tax code, combined with significant marginal tax rates on the middle class, the government has forced everyone to look at health care as an employment issue disconnected from their core behaviors. You can drink and smoke and shoot up and play nasty games with infected people in between your extreme sports….but as long as you drag your carcass in for the ol’ 9-to-5, any health issue you have is someone else’s problem.
Seventh, by allowing anyone who suffers or dies for any reason to successfully assert negligence by the medical community, the government has put their massive thumb on the scales of medical judgment. If you get the sniffles, expect a blood workup, CAT scan, MRI, and three visits to specialists.
Eighth — Y’know, this is getting old. In the US, there’s bandaids on bandaids on bandaids on bandaids, of failed or failing government policies. Fundamentally, you should be able to go to a medical help facility and know how much you’ll pay and for what — not have it hidden in payroll withholdings or income taxes paid, inflated by mandated administration costs….and you should have enough knowledge of the doctor’s reputation to be able to assess the likelihood of negligence.
cthulhu on April 26, 2008 at 3:06 AM
Oh, you mean Communism? Well, that’s cleared that up. As far as I’m concerned, they can go visit a taxidermist!
OldEnglish on April 26, 2008 at 3:29 AM
http://www.freemarketcure.com./
great reads and videos. this is where i send my friends that are socialist friendly, or just ignorant. of course they say i lack compassion for the uninsured.
palefaced on April 26, 2008 at 5:34 AM
Excuse my niavete, but I hear this all the time and I’m pretty sure it’s true, I just don’t know the specifics of why. I’ve never really had it explained I guess. Anyone care to take on the challenge?
loganthompson on April 25, 2008 at 9:30 PM
Government has eliminated any concept of supply and demand or free market principles to the medical profession. Also as some others noted, there is no reason for people to look at bills anymore since they are just ‘taken care of’ by insurance.
For example, if a new dentist trying to get patients wanted to have a standing policy of charging only $25 he’d get screwed. They can offer ‘first time patient’ deals, but in most areas of the country he would be fined or worse for trying to get in a little cheaper.
Also, add in the mandatory malpractice coverage that is jacked up beyond belief adding to costs and the utter indifference to tort reform by anyone in the legislature which would bring prices WAAAAAY down if a pediatrician didn’t have to carry $40 million in insurance in case he accidentally prescribes an antibiotic that doesn’t work because of the utter willingness of the courts to award exorbitant awards for even the most minor of grievances.
Look no further than the 50’s and 60’s. If you had a minor surgery, it pretty much never cost you more than 1 weeks pay. You get your tonsils taken out now and it’s $20K easy. Government has priced people out of the game and priced the insurance racket in.
MannyT-vA on April 26, 2008 at 5:43 AM
And this U.S. Washington based government created disaster is also being played out with our food and energy sources even as we are waking up this morning. The Feds making it next to impossible to build nuclear run power plants, preventing the search for oil, enticing and/or mandating the diversion of food materials to the production of inferior energy (ethanol). People are starving in the world now and a few basic foods (rice and other grains) are being rationed by some major U.S. retailers because of all of this. None of this was necessary. And Al Gore, the Clintonistas and the Obamarxist want more control to do more of this central planning. We are in for a long and rough ride folks.
JonRoss on April 26, 2008 at 7:56 AM
cthulhu on April 26, 2008 at 3:06 AM
yeap you hit the major points. good post. the government has done the same for college costs.
unseen on April 26, 2008 at 8:07 AM
Totally on topic… the CONSTITUTION PARTY chooses their presidential nominee today.
Hope some conservative blogs cover this as it may be our only hope.
stenwin77 on April 26, 2008 at 8:21 AM
Ed, Global Warming strikes again in MN this morning my lawn is covered in snow.. :{
Chakra Hammer on April 26, 2008 at 8:25 AM
Actually Ed, in Conscience of a Conservative, Goldwater opines that yes, the Fathers did predict such a thing (allthough perhaps not specifically a welfare system).
gwallensky on April 26, 2008 at 9:06 AM
Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism elucidates the matter ever so clearly.
For all of her good intentions, Hillary will ruin America “for the children”. She has leveled the playing field of life by defining children as citizens and citizens as children in order for the government to own children more absolutely than parental rights. From Hillary’s onset, her motive has been indisputably radical left-wing revolutionary repackaging of the progressive movement’s Social Gospel. The Clintons BOTH provide America with fascistic maternal “protection” via governmental “concern” for “the children” expressed and performed through programs; those programs serve Hillary “as an infallible index of progress”. (Goldberg p349 references Christopher Lasch, “Hillary Clinton, Child Saver.” Hillary (It Takes a Village) “argues for interventions on behalf of children from literally the moment they are born” (Goldberg, p350). Utilizing the fascist’s creation of crisis in order to manipulate the public’s assent, Clinton and cohorts equate childhood as a crisis situation that requires the “We the People” government to socially engineer the creation of the “new century’s ideal children” wherein traditional bourgeois standards are BAD, not good for children, and exlusive maternal attachment will seem dysfunctional. “By defining the intellectual status of children up, she is simultaneously defining down the authority and autonomy of adults. In a world where children are indistinguishable from grown-ups, how distinct can grown-ups be from children?” (Goldberg p353-354).
On REFLECTION, “some lawyers associated with a politics-of-meaning perspective [] envision a second stage of trials, in which the adversary system is supended and the focus is shifted to healing the problems and pain that the initial trial has uncovered in the community.” (Goldberg, 334 quoting Michael Lerner, The Politics of Meaning: Restoring Hope and Possibility in an Age of Cynicism.)…if there is ever a fascist takeover in America, it will come … with lawyers and social workers saying, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”
Today in Texas I shudder to see that Hillary’s mindset enjoys bipartisan practice as enforced today. How did 413 grow to 463 children removed at once from Eldorado homes, denied contact with mothers, forced by the state to be quarantined in centers for juvenile delinquents as the Governor boasts that his state is fully equipped to handle the crisis?
The arm of Hillary’s Big Brother and Big Sister is long, and the strength of the well intended hug suffocates the victims.
The original format that our government utilized against polygamy was to prosecute and directly remove only the men practicing plural marriage. THAT in and of itself motivated the majority to declare monogamy thereafter. The results of THAT are seen in modern Mormon strong families. True, only the most obstinate men refused to relinquish the brutal practice of polygamy, supplanted by the most obstinately “meek” subserviant women. But even Jesus blessed the meek to inherit the earth. So our “modern” government’s fascistic exercise of authority over the women and children of Eldorado does not really enjoy the moral high ground as the children AND the mothers are the easy prey of over-reaching governmental institutions and personalities in power. And what comfort does the public “home for children” spokeswoman give to those concerned that the children have been hijacked from home? “The children are resilient.” By that reasoning, the children’s resiliency would provide basis for them to remain (RETURN) home with their mothers while, if anyone must be arrested, the fathers be removed as the perpetrators of abuse.
Baby snatching is hardly what America’s Constitution was written to promote!
maverick muse on April 26, 2008 at 9:11 AM
Rosmerta on April 25, 2008 at 9:27 PM
BTW, G.K. Chesterton makes his appearance four times in Goldberg’s book. Chesterton was against eugenics and suffered high society’s public scorn on that account. Thanks again for bringing Chesterton to our attention at HotAir.
maverick muse on April 26, 2008 at 9:18 AM
Don’t ever make the fatal mistake of believing neo-Marxists like Clinton don’t “understand” private property. They do, they understand that it stands in the way of their total power grab and control of every detail of everyone’s life.
Same with gun control; its not about safety its about disarming the public to keep them from fighting back as was done during segregation against blacks in the south (by Democratic state governors and legislatures).
Neo on April 26, 2008 at 10:13 AM
All I need to know about the “nanny state” or big government.
1> My parents work their entire lives in retail; paying into the system for some 58 years before retiring at the youthful age of 80 years old. My loving parents put away some decent money and continue to pay taxes on interest earned. My parents are now 86 and are facing the end of their wonderful lives. When God takes them, their will kicks in and myself and my brothers will get our inheritance minus this wonderful thing called the “death tax”, where the nanny state mafia will tax these funds that have already been taxed every year for the life of the funds!
2> I work my entire adult life, paying taxes and being a part of the system. I retire and start collecting my SS that I paid into for my entire adult life. Let’s just say that my wife and I get killed in a car accident; who gets the money both of us have paid into SS our entire working careers..Our kids? Relatives? NO; the government keeps our SS funds upon our deaths.
Screw this nanny state bullshit! Scam artists, everyone of them!
Keemo on April 26, 2008 at 11:01 AM
The populace has been conditioned like so many rats to expect a handout if they pull the voting lever. People will gladly take whatever government redistribution program puts money in their wallet so long as their taxes aren’t raised to pay for it. Taxes are for the rich who, like milch cows, stand ready to feed the treasury. And since there’s only so much you can squeeze out of the rich, the government deficits will keep rising. The populace also expects government regulation to perfect society, so long as those regulations pertain to someone else. Too many citizens have been reduced to the status of baby birds, sitting in their comfortable nest with their mouths gaping upward, waiting for their surrogate mother, i.e., the state, to fill their craw. What’s really inexplicable is the black population who, having been liberated from slavery, still have a plantation mindset. Only this time, it’s the government that will take care of them and run their lives. It’s time that schools taught children what it takes to be functioning adults. It’s time we stopped the government from destroying civil society by replacing it with bureaucracy. But will it happen? When have any people given up something for seemingly nothing?
NNtrancer on April 26, 2008 at 12:48 PM
You know what you get with a Nanny State?
A nation full of babies who can’t care for themsevles.
EJDolbow on April 25, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Keemo on April 26, 2008 at 11:01 AM
The populace has been conditioned like so many rats to expect a handout if they pull the voting lever.
NNtrancer on April 26, 2008 at 12:48 PM
The embedded nanny state union won’t help. I think it’s our individual responsibility to educate our children. Not strangers. Look where that got us.
AZ_Redneck on April 26, 2008 at 1:05 PM
I didn’t say the schools should be run by the government, although it’s difficult to forsee any other option. But there’s always private and home schooling, although as a practical matter, they won’t engage large numbers of children even if the political will were there because of economic reasons.
By the way, I blame the left for destroying this country. And it comes down to three pernicious ideas they’ve sold to the citizenry:’
1. It’s not your fault. You’re a victim.
2. The world owes you a living.
3. If it feels good, do it.
NNtrancer on April 26, 2008 at 1:33 PM
heh … apparently I wasn’t paying attention with the quote tags before …
Thanks for the clarifier. Basically, I agree with you, but homeschooling … is big, big, big in Arizona. We home school our three kids where they learn personal responsibility.
AZ_Redneck on April 26, 2008 at 8:43 PM
All you have to to is talk to a retired doctor to find out everything that has gone wrong with our health care system as gvernment has become more and more pervasive in the system.
My father practiced medicine for 40 years in Lexington, Kentucky. As recently as the early 1960s, he made a good living (NOT extravagant – I wore plenty of hand me down clothes and went to public schools) while charging very affordable prices for his services. When Medicare was enacted in 1965 he warned everyone that it was the beginning of the end of our great health care system.
My dad used to care for many poor people. He and the hospital where he worked never turned anyone away. Most of these people had no kind of health insurance. If they could not pay their (single page, very understandable) hospital bill when they were discharged they could just set up a payment plan. My dad got as little as $5 a month from some patients. Sometimes he even took farm products as payment. We always had lots of fresh vegetables and fruit, and once even got a side of beef! And often he would simply forgive the charges entirely and just take it as a tax write-off.
In the 1970s, two things happened that changed everything. One, he got sued for malpractice, and two, the IRS told him he could no longer write off unpaid bills unless he hired a collection agency and made at least three attempts to collect the payments. His malpractice insurance premium went from $10,000 to $90,000 a year in ONE year. The hospital told him he could not practice there without it. And he had to hire a full time secretary and a collection agency to try to collect the payments he used to forgive for his poor patients. The cost of his practice literally quadrupled in two years. He had no choice but to raise his rates substantially as a result.
Meanwhile, people started living longer and longer and having more and more health problems in old age. Malpractice suits and IRS rules forced doctors to increase rates. Doctors and hospitals started ordering more tests, using more expensive disposable products and new technology to cut down on lawsuits. At first, Meedicare paid for all of this for elderly patients. As prices rose and collections became more aggressive, younger people who formerly were able to pay medical bills as they arose couldn’t, and started demanding more health insurance from their employers. As third parties started to take over payments for medical care, nobody had any incentive to keep costs down.
Soon enough, some doctors hit on the idea that with all this cash going though the system they could make more money by owning hospitals than by practicing medicine. Thus the profit motive was introduced into health care. Previously non-proftit hospitals were bought by the Humanas of the world, and they started paying doctors more so they all moved to the for-profit hospitals. The non-profits could not keep pace without increasing their prices. Somebody else was paying the bills, so nobody cared. This led to a further price spiral as the new companies sought larger profits.
Then in the 1980s, Medicare costs really started to skyrocket, while the federal deficit became critical. The government responded by cutting reimbursements to doctors and hospitals. So the providers had to start charging even more to non-Medicare patients to make up for the lost income. They have had to cut their patient examination times, limit hospital admissions and shorten the length of stays, and do all sorts of other cost cutting which has continually worsened the patient experience.
This has continued to the point that the government now pays only about 20% of the actual cost of most procedures for Medicare patients. The Medicare reimbursement schedule is larger than the entire U.S. tax code. Bills are incomprehensible. Doctors have gamed the system by committing massive fraud, charging for procedures not performed and visits not made. The average patient can’t figure it out and doesn’t care anyway since he isn’t paying the bill. My dad goes crazy every time he has to have a procedure because of all the bullshit on the bill that he knows wasn’t done. He has turned in 5 doctors for fraud. Doctors used to be the most honest and trustworthy people in the world. Our government has turned them into crooks.
The entire reason your health care is so expensive and such a lousy experience now is because Medicare and Medicaid costs have spiraled to the point that the government has had to cut the reimbursements and you make up the difference.
rockmom on April 27, 2008 at 11:21 AM
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