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Planned Parenthood protest in DC: Stop targeting African-Americans

posted at 11:15 am on April 25, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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On Wednesday, I asked whether the time had come for an investigation into the practices of Planned Parenthood. They have received millions of taxpayer dollars for their operations through federal grants while profiting off of abortion mills. In at least four incidents, they exploited racist sentiment to accrue private donations for the explicit purpose of aborting African-American babies. Yesterday, a group of pastors and activists primarily from the black community demanded an end to Planned Parenthood’s “genocide”:

The Planned Parenthood Federation of America has perpetuated a “genocide on the black community,” says a group of African-American pastors who claimed Thursday the birth control and abortion provider has had a racist agenda since its beginnings in 1921.

Holding a brief vigil and press conference in front of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Washington, D.C., the group of pastors and activists said they were incensed by the results of recent “undercover” inquiries into several Planned Parenthood clinics across the country.

“Every day … over 1,500 black babies are murdered inside the black woman’s womb,” said Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, of Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny (BOND). “This is a race issue.”

The pastors urged Congress to initiate an audit of the organization and have written letters demanding that money for Planned Parenthood be eliminated from federal Title X funding, of which the group got $65 million for fiscal year 2007, according to pro-life Concerned Women of America. In total, Planned Parenthood received $300 million in government contracts and grants in the current fiscal year.

The national office of Planned Parenthood provided FOX News with a lengthy statement on Thursday in which it said its role in the African-American community is widespread because the need is greater.

The need is greater? The need for what? They point to a study that shows almost half of all black teenage girls carry an STD, but that would indicate that PP hasn’t performed very effectively with the millions it gets already. PP has been targeting these communities for decades, and the problem to which it points highlights its failure — because everyone knows they’re not all that interested in STDs anyway.

People can buy condoms at Walgreens. They get abortions at Planned Parenthood.

Fox had a lengthy report on the protest:

Hot Air readers took some photos of the event, which you can see here:


Maybe the scope of the damage that abortion has wrought has finally come into focus.


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Comment pages: 1 2 3

What constitutes a “person” is a social definition, not a medical one.
dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM

Indeed, and I seem to recall that Jews were denied this social definition under the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 1:55 PM

The conception/implantation question is a disingenuous attempt to muddy the waters of the beginning of life.

At fertilization the matter is “appropriately organized”, and this single-cell human zygote – in vivo or in vitro – is an already existing human being, with his or her own unique genetic composition (from both the mother and the father), genetically already a girl or a boy. Immediately this tiny human being directs his or her own growth and development.

The question is entirely genuine and, I think, not easy to answer. If fertilization creates, in that moment, a unique human being with an individual identity, what happens when it subsequently splits into two or more embryos? Which of the twins was the fertilized egg?

I respect the opinion that abortion is wrong from the point of conception. But, it can’t be because it kills a person but rather because it kills something with the potential to become one or more people. That fertilized egg can be viewed as important, even sacred, but not the same as an individual being.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 1:57 PM

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM
I was unaware that women having abortions were in the fertilization or pre-implantation stage.

Limerick on April 25, 2008 at 1:12 PM

The are in the instance of “morning-after” pills, Lim.

TexasDan on April 25, 2008 at 1:57 PM

One liberal agenda clashes with another big liberal agenda? Good question/s to ask of Hillary/Obama.

Entelechy on April 25, 2008 at 2:00 PM

My mind changed about abortion while I was still a liberal in the eighties. It occured to me that an manifestly insignicant number of fetuses turn in to any thing other that human beings. So, the fetal stage is just a stage like adolesence but the under lying reality all the way is human. I guess I was just beginning to realize that the liberal view forsakes the complexities of life. I think liberals tend to reverse engineer arguments: I decide what I want and then I’ll create justifacations and rationalizations to get what they want.

snaggletoothie on April 25, 2008 at 2:00 PM

Indeed, and I seem to recall that Jews were denied this social definition under the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 1:55 PM

Is your point that Jews as a group are the same as embryos? Clearly there are very significant differences. I’ve heard some compare the killing of animals to human genocides in the past. I disagree.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:03 PM

The fact that Margaret Sanger was an atheist should say it all. The act of abortion is a Godless act. When God becomes irrelevant, then what does a baby in the womb matter? The baby in the womb becomes irrelevant, too. It is a logical extension.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 25, 2008 at 2:03 PM

I’d rather have a largely correct, institutionalized (if left-wing) sex education for my kids than an informal and incorrect “street” sex education given by their peers.

Big S on April 25, 2008 at 12:58 PM

In either context you present “sex ed” is devoid of a moral component. It’s like the auto shop teacher showing his students how to hot wire and steal cars as if it’s no different than teaching them how to change the oil.

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Is your point that Jews as a group are the same as embryos?

All Jews were once embryos.

I know, just bein an a-hole.

Ciannaky on April 25, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Is your point that Jews as a group are the same as embryos? Clearly there are very significant differences. I’ve heard some compare the killing of animals to human genocides in the past. I disagree.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:03 PM

I’m saying, if it needs to be spelled out, that once you deny personhood (and the basic human rights that accompany that designation) to any class of people it is usually real bad news for them.

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:07 PM

All Jews were once embryos.

I know, just bein an a-hole.

Ciannaky on April 25, 2008 at 2:05 PM

At least you’re a nice, self-deprecating ahole…

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:08 PM

dedalus, THAT is a very slippery slope. It is eugenics. How do you know that a Downs Syndrome person doesn’t enjoy life as much as you and I? But yet, there are many that are so selfish as to say they don’t have a right to live, because they are socially unacceptable.

kirkill on April 25, 2008 at 1:51 PM

In the case of someone with Downs Syndrome they are clearly a person since they have brain waves. They may enjoy life more than I do. Some days that is quite possible.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:08 PM

What constitutes a “person” is a social definition, not a medical one.
dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 1:08 PM

When was your unique DNA established?

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:09 PM

In the case of someone with Downs Syndrome they are clearly a person since they have brain waves. They may enjoy life more than I do. Some days that is quite possible.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:08 PM

So someone w/o brain waves can be used for target practice?

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:09 PM

what happens when it subsequently splits into two or more embryos? Which of the twins was the fertilized egg?

Both. You keep digging the hole deeper. Now you are killing two “socially” viable human beings, or 3 or 4, serial aborting.
No to Abortion.

kirkill on April 25, 2008 at 2:10 PM

Abortion is murder and an abomination but hey, I look at it like this, Any offspring from a person that has so much hate and murder in her heart is best aborted.

Abortion regardless of race is just Dawinism in action culling the murderous dems.

TheSitRep on April 25, 2008 at 2:11 PM

Another grand vision by the Utopian visionaries,and again
its the election run up with Liberals on Parade!

The Liberal Party has a nasty accusations to answer too,
and with a woman wanting to be POTUSOA,an African American
also,there seems to be no end to the Democrats 10 ring
circus!

Please,don’t anybody impede the Liberal’s upcoming melt down,the Anti-War moonbats haven’t started to scream yet
about Irag,so the party’s plate is slowly a spillin over!

canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 2:12 PM

Call me one of the blindfolded; I’d always assumed they gave counsiling and had some kind of effect, but apparently not since stats show they aren’t making any difference at all, particularly with these racists overtones that have surfaced recently. Pretty intense stuff

drift on April 25, 2008 at 11:23 AM

You have taken the Red Pill.

Neo: Why do my eyes hurt?

Morpheus: You’ve never used them before.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:12 PM

If PP is simply giving them out without a physician consultation or a prescription they should be sued for practicing medicine without a license. Just another notch up on the “Evil-o-Meter” for PP if that is the case.

wearyman on April 25, 2008 at 11:38 AM

Of course they don’t. They have doctors as well, though seriously, the consultation is a check of your blood pressure and information about who shouldn’t take the pill, i.e. smokers and people over 35.

That’s what they do at PP, and that’s what other doctors do as well.

It’s nothing the pharmacy tech at Walgreens couldn’t do.

Call me a liberal if you want; I don’t mind. Note that comprehensive sex education and access to contraceptives is a great way to decrease the number of abortions performed.

Big S on April 25, 2008 at 12:22 PM

I agree with you for the most part, but online and in pamphlets are pretty much the only places PP talks about the harms of sex, aside from STD issues.

When it comes to pregnancy, the default is to counsel someone to have an abortion and little else.

If their actual policies were like the ones on their website, PP wouldn’t have as much bad press as it already does.

It can be a good organization and does good for people who can’t afford a regular doctor, but it still has a long way to go.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM

Finally.

OneGyT on April 25, 2008 at 11:23 AM

OneGyT, good to see you!
We missed you over at this thread.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:15 PM

OhEssYouCowboys on April 25, 2008 at 2:03 PM

For that matter, any life, human or otherwise, is irrelevant at that point.

PappaMac on April 25, 2008 at 2:15 PM

This concern is clearly addressed in Ed’s article and by many in this thread.
blink on April 25, 2008 at 2:14 PM

Just heard this on the radio: “Texas-size meteor to hit earth Sunday. Women and minorities to suffer most.”

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:16 PM

The are in the instance of “morning-after” pills, Lim.

TexasDan on April 25, 2008 at 1:57 PM

Which some people don’t consider abortion. I personally don’t.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:17 PM

Abortion is a pretty easy position to take a stand on because it revolves around one premise. Pro-Lifers start with the assumption of “there are two people, one of which is murdered by a doctor.”

Choicers start with the assumption, “the doctor removes an inanimate growth.”

Only one of those two can be true. Its not about who has a right to answer the question, it about what the answer is.

AbaddonsReign on April 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM

AbaddonsReign, when was your unique DNA established?

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:17 PM

The only death that is “Pro-Choice” is suicide.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:20 PM

Which some people don’t consider abortion. I personally don’t.
Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:17 PM

It isn’t? What if it’s the day after the day after? What about the day after that? What about a week after that?

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:20 PM

At some point it has a complete and unique human DNA. What point is that?

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 1:52 PM

In the case of twins, their DNA is identical, and not unique. The zygote would contain the complete DNA and subsequently split into two embryos. It would seem that DNA alone is not enough to define an individual.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:22 PM

The RU-486 is a pill that aborts,unless I’m wrong!

canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 2:24 PM

In the case of twins, their DNA is identical, and not unique. The zygote would contain the complete DNA and subsequently split into two embryos. It would seem that DNA alone is not enough to define an individual.
dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:22 PM

Come on! By that qualification no definition of individual is possible! By “unique DNA” what is meant is that it has half the mother’s and half the father’s DNA, and is therefore unique. Twins can only be considered together in this context, so as a pair their DNA is unique.

Nice try.

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:25 PM

It isn’t? What if it’s the day after the day after? What about the day after that? What about a week after that?

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:20 PM

It’s useless a week after. In fact, it’s not necessarily helpful three days after.

It doesn’t terminate a pregnancy. It just makes fertilization much more difficult the same way the pill does. In fact, you’ll get the same effect if you take five birth control pills at once.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:25 PM

So someone w/o brain waves can be used for target practice?

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:09 PM

Someone without brain waves is legally dead. I think there are laws against doing things with corpses. I don’t know though.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:26 PM

John McCain should jump on this issue. Fiscally responsible, pro-life, AND racially progressive.

rockmom on April 25, 2008 at 11:47 AM

And if he doesn’t, what does that tell you about John McCain?

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:26 PM

The RU-486 is a pill that aborts,unless I’m wrong!

canopfor on April 25, 2008 at 2:24 PM

You are correct; however, the RU-486 is not the same as the “morning after” pill.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:26 PM

I respect the opinion that abortion is wrong from the point of conception. But, it can’t be because it kills a person but rather because it kills something with the potential to become one or more people. That fertilized egg can be viewed as important, even sacred, but not the same as an individual being.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 1:57 PM

If you change statement just slightly from “it kills a person,” to “it takes human life,” you can easily justify it being murder. The fertilized egg is human life. Different human life than either parent, and if you kill it, that would be murder. The argument that you don’t know if you are intentionally killing more than one person doesn’t mean you aren’t committing murder, as you have intentionally killed at least one person. This is like saying you aren’t attempting murder if you connect a bomb to a car’s ignition, since you can’t possibly know how many people will be in the car when the bomb goes off.

Buford on April 25, 2008 at 2:27 PM

I’ve become much more “pro-life” since the birth of my son. Seeing sonograms of him even at 15 weeks is simply amazing.

Dash on April 25, 2008 at 11:49 AM

You are not alone. I don’t have the statistics in front of me, but women who see a sonogram of their baby are a lot less likely to have an abortion.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:29 PM

Yes, this is great news, however, what about talking to the women before they get pregnant to act in a responsible manner?

richardcamera on April 25, 2008 at 2:29 PM

I wonder what BO will say about this? I’m betting on “nothing”.

kirkill on April 25, 2008 at 11:49 AM

If he says nothing, what does that say about Barack Obama?

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:30 PM

If Hillary says nothing, what does that say about her?

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:30 PM

I’ve been following the Planned Parenthood/Obama connection for some time and think it’s unconscionable for a black politician to praise an organization that is exterminating it’s own population.

Here’s a chart with data from the U.S. Center of Disease Control that shows the disproportionate number of deaths in the black community are due to abortion (13 million since R v W) compared with AIDS, cancer, etc.

Here’s a video of Obama giving a speech at a Planned Parenthood convention in 2007 in which he said “Men have the sense to know abortion helps them (and other distrubing statements)

There’s a fantastic website called BlackGenocide.Org, who I’m sure is affiliated with the group that protested PP in your entry.. Margaret Sanger Would Have Loved Barack Obama

Despite what Jeremiah Wright says, no one is more responsible for killing off blacks than blacks with the help of Planned Parenthood.

Amy Proctor on April 25, 2008 at 2:31 PM

Both. You keep digging the hole deeper. Now you are killing two “socially” viable human beings, or 3 or 4, serial aborting.
No to Abortion.

kirkill on April 25, 2008 at 2:10 PM

Not at all. I’m saying that abortion is wrong when it kills a human being. You are, very specifically, saying that it needs to be wrong when it kills a potential human being.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:31 PM

The tide is turning in this country…

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:35 PM

Which some people don’t consider abortion. I personally don’t.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:17 PM

IUDs also work on the principle of preventing implantation. My biggest problem with the issue is some would make pregnancy interruption illegal in all cases, including rape and incest.

a capella on April 25, 2008 at 2:35 PM

You are, very specifically, saying that it needs to be wrong when it kills a potential human being.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:31 PM

That phrase just seems off to me, “potential human being.”

That’s what sperm and eggs are separately. There’s potential, but action must take place before either can become a human.

A fertilized egg actually needs action to take place for it to not become a human being.

I understand your hesitance to call it human, but “potential” just doesn’t sit right. After all, we wouldn’t call a toddler a potential adult, would we?

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:37 PM

ohess…

You are slandering Ms. Sanger. She wanted to use contraception and incentives for voluntary sterilzation to control the population of inferior races not abortion. Sanger was actually morally opposed to abortion. She by today’s Planned Parenthood leadership was anti-choice

jerryofva on April 25, 2008 at 2:37 PM

what about all the people on this forum? If they say nothing what does that mean about them?

(Just funning on you red)

I think a politician will try to stay away from this debate, for the simple fact that it is incredibly complex. In a world where sound bites rule, you can not talk about abortion without it being spun against you.

I beleive it is kiling a potential human. After x number of weeks then you are, in fact, killing a person. My problem with most of the pro choice crowd is they want to see it as a “choice”. That makes it way too abstract a concept. A human fetus will develop into a fetus, not into anything else. Aborting an 18 week fetus is killing a child, and not much differnet then killing a 2 week old baby. but even saying that, their are dozens of caveats to look at. This is one of those subjects that can and will be written about for years and years. And their will not be a solution until one ideology completely over takes another.

Wyrd on April 25, 2008 at 2:38 PM

My biggest problem with the issue is some would make pregnancy interruption illegal in all cases, including rape and incest.

a capella on April 25, 2008 at 2:35 PM

The logic involved in making abortion illegal would necessitate that all abortions are illegal unless the woman’s life is at stake.

If it’s human life, then its father shouldn’t determine whether or not it gets to be born.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:39 PM

You are slandering Ms. Sanger. She wanted to use contraception and incentives for voluntary sterilzation to control the population of inferior races not abortion. Sanger was actually morally opposed to abortion. She by today’s Planned Parenthood leadership was anti-choice

jerryofva on April 25, 2008 at 2:37 PM

Do you sincerely believe this in any way makes her look better?

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:40 PM

I respect the opinion that abortion is wrong from the point of conception. But, it can’t be because it kills a person but rather because it kills something with the potential to become one or more people. That fertilized egg can be viewed as important, even sacred, but not the same as an individual being.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 1:57 PM

Well said.

Big S on April 25, 2008 at 2:41 PM

Esthier,
I think the term “potential” human being relates to the vialbilty of the fetus. If brought to term it will be human. But during those 9 months the females body might reject the fetus, illness or mutation may cause a miscariage etc. I read somewhere that most pregnencies end within the first few weeks of inception, and the woman may never know she was pregnant.
That reason alone brings truth to the phrase “A baby IS a miracle”

Wyrd on April 25, 2008 at 2:42 PM

Read this….

The affecting truth must be told. Prosperity has made us a people presumptuous and hardened in sin. It has imparted both the power and the disposition to dishonor the God who made us and the Savior who bought us.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:43 PM

If you change statement just slightly from “it kills a person,” to “it takes human life,” you can easily justify it being murder. The fertilized egg is human life. Different human life than either parent, and if you kill it, that would be murder. The argument that you don’t know if you are intentionally killing more than one person doesn’t mean you aren’t committing murder, as you have intentionally killed at least one person. This is like saying you aren’t attempting murder if you connect a bomb to a car’s ignition, since you can’t possibly know how many people will be in the car when the bomb goes off.

Buford on April 25, 2008 at 2:27 PM

Good points. It really does hinge on whether “human life” is tantamount to “human being”. If I donate a kidney to someone and he carries my DNA, am I part of him? What if he commits a robbery or kills himself? Now, I’d be pretty peeved if I donated an organ to someone who then killed himself, but I couldn’t claim he also murdered me because he killed some of my living DNA.

The car analogy works so long as the court trying the bomber knows how many people are in the car. What the bomber knew isn’t relevant, but if the court can’t determine if someone was in the car (instead of otherwise missing) they can’t convict the bomber of that murder.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:43 PM

That phrase just seems off to me, “potential human being.”

That’s what sperm and eggs are separately. There’s potential, but action must take place before either can become a human.

Sperm and eggs are better described as “half of a potential human being.” It’s not just “action” that is required, but an entire complementary set of chromosomes that must be delivered to either of them in order to start development.

Big S on April 25, 2008 at 2:44 PM

I understand your hesitance to call it human, but “potential” just doesn’t sit right. After all, we wouldn’t call a toddler a potential adult, would we?

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:37 PM

Yes, the terms are difficult. I agree. Are toddlers potential adults? I have two toddlers, who on many days don’t demonstrate convincing potential for adulthood. I know it will happen but given the chaos they routinely create it can sometimes be hard to imagine. My friends tell me to enjoy it though since they all-to-quickly turn into teenagers.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:49 PM

Watch this…it’s absolutely beautiful.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:50 PM

Sperm and eggs are better described as “half of a potential human being.” It’s not just “action” that is required, but an entire complementary set of chromosomes that must be delivered to either of them in order to start development.

Big S on April 25, 2008 at 2:44 PM

Sure, but they’re delivered through “action.”

Wyrd on April 25, 2008 at 2:42 PM

I get what you’re saying, but the fact that life is fragile doesn’t define what constitutes life, at least not for those outside the womb.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:51 PM

In the case of twins, their DNA is identical, and not unique. The zygote would contain the complete DNA and subsequently split into two embryos. It would seem that DNA alone is not enough to define an individual.
dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:22 PM

Just because you get “2 for 1″ doesn’t change the argument…they are both human and alive.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:53 PM

Time to move this to the “Top Picks” side…it already has more comments than some of the other posts there that have been around longer.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:54 PM

“This is some seriously evil sh**. It is in the same league as child rape and the Holocaust. [I try my best not to hate people, but anyone who supports this atrocity is not a person.]”

Jungliszt
————–
Looks like there are pro-lifer Nazis who agree that anyone who is pro-choice is a sub-Human.

jim m on April 25, 2008 at 2:54 PM

“Despite what Jeremiah Wright says, no one is more responsible for killing off blacks than blacks with the help of Planned Parenthood.:

Amy, so the woman who got pregnant and her partner aren’t primarily responsible? Sorry, I think the Kansas heat has fried your brain.

jim m on April 25, 2008 at 2:56 PM

And their will not be a solution until one ideology completely over takes another.

Wyrd on April 25, 2008 at 2:38 PM

Or when logic prevails.
*
When you remove the emotion out of it, it becomes quite simple.
On a tennis court, when a line dispute happens, and there is no clear cut indication the hitter of the ball has gets the point. Because the ramifications are just a point, and no real impact on society, a clear and concise rule is made. When undetermined, the hitter of the ball gets the favor. You do not punish for something you can’t agree on.
Apply that to unborn children, when there is a disagreement as to when life begins, the advantage goes to life. That is how an unemotional, unattached person would rule.
You will never be able to rule when life begins, if you say 21 days, I say how about 20 days 11 hours and 58 minutes, or 57 or 56, life happens when it happens.
The tie goes to the runner…

right2bright on April 25, 2008 at 2:58 PM

The logic involved in making abortion illegal would necessitate that all abortions are illegal unless the woman’s life is at stake.

If it’s human life, then its father shouldn’t determine whether or not it gets to be born.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 2:39 PM

I understand the logic. I just don’t agree. No woman should be forced to bear a child due to rape.

a capella on April 25, 2008 at 3:00 PM

My friends tell me to enjoy it though since they all-to-quickly turn into teenagers.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:49 PM

I hear the same, but I’ve got none at home to convince me otherwise. Though I do know from my own past that teenagers are… difficult. I’m not particularly fond of them in general and wasn’t even when I was one.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 3:00 PM

Just because you get “2 for 1″ doesn’t change the argument…they are both human and alive.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 2:53 PM

The point is you don’t know if it is “they” or “he” or “she”. Do you convict everyone for multiple homicides based on the fact that there might be, perhaps, two or more babies?

Always happy to see you Red Pill.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 3:03 PM

No, right2bright, you end up having a civil war over these sorts of cultural issues and end up resolving them in that manner.

There is really no reason we need a United States, anyways. Better to split apart into several relatively autonomous regions which share expenses for a common defense and little else than to continue like this.

I hope it happens in my lifetime. And I do not say the word “indivisible” when I say the Pledge of Allegiance, because I do not believe we are indivisible.

jim m on April 25, 2008 at 3:04 PM

So someone w/o brain waves can be used for target practice?

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:09 PM

Ok, My inner demons are forcing me to post this:

Would that include all Liberals?

PrettyD_Vicious on April 25, 2008 at 3:08 PM

So the protest is about pro-killing more white babies. I don’t get it.

They are not anti-abortion/anti-PP, they are just for more balance in which babies races are murdered.

nottakingsides on April 25, 2008 at 3:11 PM

if you do not believe in God, then life is worthless

custer on April 25, 2008 at 3:18 PM

So someone w/o brain waves can be used for target practice?

Akzed on April 25, 2008 at 2:09 PM

Or from the Liberal perspective, if they were not so afraid of the guns coming to life and shooting them, open season on conservatives.

PrettyD_Vicious on April 25, 2008 at 3:18 PM

Ester:

I think you need to develop a sense of irony. I will leave it up to you to reconsider the implications of what said.

jerryofva on April 25, 2008 at 3:20 PM

I understand the logic. I just don’t agree. No woman should be forced to bear a child due to rape.

a capella on April 25, 2008 at 3:00 PM

I understand. If abortion is made illegal but allowed for victims of rape, then it will likely have been made illegal through different logic.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 3:20 PM

jerryofva on April 25, 2008 at 3:20 PM

I was genuinely asking a question.

You’ve answered it.

I try very hard not to assume anything on this site.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 3:22 PM

The problem is lines, and what constitutes a human.

Every cell in your body has your unique DNA, and if someone were to clone you, they would no more be you than if you had an identical twin. A single cell with unique DNA can apply to an epithelial cell in a petri dish as much as a zygote.

There may be life in outer space, and possibly even life that we’d regard as sentient. They would not have our DNA, but they would be very worthy of our respect as fellow sentients. So DNA for me is not a standard.

Natural miscarriages are the biggest cause of death for fertilized zygotes. In trying to have a baby, you will very likely bleed out three zygotes without even knowing it before one sticks and grows. Sometimes the fatally flawed sperm was the fastest. Sometimes the egg was too old when it was fertilized, and had started to break down. There’s nothing magical about fertilized eggs.

Then again, the social magic of fertilized eggs is that they are created more often than not through the act of sex. There is often the desire that the end of abortion would somehow re-confine female sexuality into its traditional boundaries. Tradition exists for a reason. Women should not have sex and risk pregnancy in a context where they can’t guarantee that the male will take responsibility, and pro-lifers believe that abortion creates a moral hazard.

So why not defend tradition instead of playing sophistic games about DNA?

Sekhmet on April 25, 2008 at 3:28 PM

The car analogy works so long as the court trying the bomber knows how many people are in the car. What the bomber knew isn’t relevant, but if the court can’t determine if someone was in the car (instead of otherwise missing) they can’t convict the bomber of that murder.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 2:43 PM

Yes, but in the case of abortion, an examination of the remains will make it clear how many lives were taken as the victim(s) will be readily available for examination.

Buford on April 25, 2008 at 3:45 PM

So why not defend tradition instead of playing sophistic games about DNA?

Sekhmet on April 25, 2008 at 3:28 PM

Who is playing sophistic games about DNA? Individual cells? Clones? Aliens? At what point did these become germane to this discussion? So far everything has been clearly about purposely terminating a viable healthy pregnancy I.E. and abortion. From what I can tell, every post up until now has been about the subject. Nice attempt to confuse the issue, but your post has no relevancy to the topic at hand.

Buford on April 25, 2008 at 3:58 PM

Seems to me Planned Parenthood is just helping Barack Obama out…how can he be upset with PP when they are just making sure that black girls won’t be “punished with a baby?” Remember that lame answer he gave in a Q and A ? PP seem to be doing a better job of keeping the girls from being “punished” than at helping them prevent STD’s.

marybel on April 25, 2008 at 4:01 PM

Do you realize that abortion in the USA helps send money to socialist governments?

It’s true.

Abortion in the USA results in not enough children being available to meet the needs of those parents looking to adopt. So, those parents go to other countries to adopt children.

Where do they go? Places like China, Vietnam, Russia. They pay fees in the tens of thousands of dollars to those governments in order to adopt those children.

Socialists are in favor of a smaller population in the USA. It’s no wonder the socialists are pro-abortion. They call it “pro-choice”, not “pro-abortion”, but the human being that is killed has no “choice” in the matter. The only death that is “pro-choice” is suicide.

A truly “choice”-based policy is this:
1) Honor the child’s God-given unalienable right to life
2) Give the biological mother the “choice” of raising this gift from God herself, or giving this gift to someone else via adoption.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 4:04 PM

I understand the logic. I just don’t agree. No woman should be forced to bear a child due to rape.

a capella on April 25, 2008 at 3:00 PM

Ah! The rape victim argument. Yes, its an emotion inducing pov, however, I believe the unborn child would beg to differ with your rape victim solution. What you’re saying is that the child is punished for the sins of their father.

geckomon on April 25, 2008 at 4:28 PM

Life doesn’t begin at conception?

No, as you rightly point out, both the sperm and egg are alive. Putting aside the question of the origin of life, in the first part of the first chapter of just about every biology text out there, there is a description of Pasteur’s experiments proving life begets life -there is no discontinuity in life.

So when talking abortion, let’s start with basic biology. The egg is alive. The sperm is alive. The fertilized egg is alive. Furthermore, this “life” we are talking about is not canine, bovine or ursine, it is human (which can be proved genetically). Note too, that due to genetic recombination, each egg is unique and each sperm is unique, meaning that each fertilized egg is unique.

So from a purely scientific viewpoint, each fertilized egg is a unique, human life. Now… what’s the argument for destroying that unique, human life?

taznar on April 25, 2008 at 4:32 PM

I know all I need to know about Barack Obama on this issue. He opposed the Born Alive bill. He won’t even save the life of a baby from a failed abortion. more here

resqgal on April 25, 2008 at 4:40 PM

And Hillary Clinton voted against the Partial Birth Abortion ban, which means she is totally OK with killing full-term babies.

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 4:42 PM

That’s right! We should be killing babies REGARDLESS of race!

Capitana on April 25, 2008 at 4:46 PM

taznar on April 25, 2008 at 4:32 PM

Good stuff. Thanks for posting that. I’ve never thought about it quite that way…in essence, my life didn’t start at my conception…the roots of my life keep going back and back and back until I get to God’s creation of Adam. My life began with God. Pretty cool. And it’s Biblically valid…the Bible traces the genealogy of the Son of God through his non-biological (supposed) father Joseph, all the way back to “Adam, the son of God”:

The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,[d]the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathiah, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathiah, the son of Semei, the son of Joseph, the son of Judah, 27 the son of Joannas, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmodam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Jose, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menan, the son of Mattathah, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Luke 3:23-38

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 4:55 PM

Yes, but in the case of abortion, an examination of the remains will make it clear how many lives were taken as the victim(s) will be readily available for examination.

Buford on April 25, 2008 at 3:45 PM

Not at all. In the case of a fertilized egg or zygote the microscopic remains would be the same regardless of how many babies it would have created.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Red Pill on April 25, 2008 at 4:55 PM

A Darwinist would claim you could begat it all the way back to a squirrel, and beyond. But that’s a different thread :-)

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 5:24 PM

Not at all. In the case of a fertilized egg or zygote the microscopic remains would be the same regardless of how many babies it would have created.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Wow. Just Wow. It seems to me you’re intensively bent on diminishing life as you see it. Were you abused as a zygote?

geckomon on April 25, 2008 at 5:28 PM

There is often the desire that the end of abortion would somehow re-confine female sexuality into its traditional boundaries. Tradition exists for a reason. Women should not have sex and risk pregnancy in a context where they can’t guarantee that the male will take responsibility, and pro-lifers believe that abortion creates a moral hazard.

So why not defend tradition instead of playing sophistic games about DNA?

Sekhmet on April 25, 2008 at 3:28 PM

Contraceptives would create the same moral hazard.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 5:31 PM

Planned Parenthood statists or identity politics hucksters? The left certainly seems to be getting Balkanized. And while it’s always interesting when the various factions of collide, it’s awfully hard to pick a side.

Blacklake on April 25, 2008 at 5:33 PM

understand the logic. I just don’t agree. No woman should be forced to bear a child due to rape.

a capella on April 25, 2008 at 3:00 PM

I’m an old NICU nurse and I can think off the top of my head of about five cases of rape where the woman chose to have the baby and gave it up for adoption. When we asked them why they didn’t have the abortion, most answered, “This baby is part me too. Why should I punish the baby for what the father did?”
Which to this very day, amazes me.

And technically, the chances of pregnancy happened due to rape is actually pretty low.

mjk on April 25, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Wow. Just Wow. It seems to me you’re intensively bent on diminishing life as you see it. Were you abused as a zygote?

geckomon on April 25, 2008 at 5:28 PM

There’s nothing subjective in the quote you’ve pulled from my post. I haven’t the ability to diminish or enhance such things.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 5:36 PM

The Party of Slavery is still the Party of Slavery, even after all these years. It took “guerilla theater” for the black community to realize this and to finally figure out what needs to be done.

This is now what the liberals call a wedge issue, and what those on our side call a matter of principle.

unclesmrgol on April 25, 2008 at 5:37 PM

Where does Obama stand on PP?

Is the position that PP, while it may have been started by racists, has moved beyond its historical beginnings to become something better?

Oh, wait, that characterization might be applied to the U.S. by some….

shhhh, don’t tell Rev. Wright

TheCulturalist on April 25, 2008 at 5:46 PM

There’s nothing subjective in the quote you’ve pulled from my post. I haven’t the ability to diminish or enhance such things.

dedalus on April 25, 2008 at 5:36 PM

It’s the theme and tone of all your post in this comment thread. I apologize for not quoting and posting all of them rather than the most recent.

You’re certainly on a mission to define life as little as possible by setting the standards on the most highest rung possible.

geckomon on April 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM

And technically, the chances of pregnancy happened due to rape is actually pretty low.

mjk on April 25, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Why would that be? Because most of the time women aren’t ovulating? Or is (are) there some other factor(s)?

Blacklake on April 25, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Why would that be? Because most of the time women aren’t ovulating? Or is (are) there some other factor(s)?

Blacklake on April 25, 2008 at 5:51 PM

The stress of being raped makes conception significantly less likely.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 5:56 PM

The stress of being raped makes conception significantly less likely.

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 5:56 PM

Really? Where did you get that?

I recalled hearing something different a while back. How about a linkfest?

TheCulturalist on April 25, 2008 at 6:07 PM

Esthier on April 25, 2008 at 5:56 PM

Here is another one.

TheCulturalist on April 25, 2008 at 6:15 PM

Looks like there are pro-lifer Nazis who agree that anyone who is pro-choice is a sub-Human.”

Congratulations, you win the “first liberal to call someone a Nazi in this thread” award.

Of course, I’m primarily referring to late-term and partial-birth abortions, and the afore mentioned attempt by Obama to abandon botched-abortion survivors. Although most people who consider themselves “pro-choice” are too stupid to even be aware of these ghastly procedures.

Jungliszt on April 25, 2008 at 6:17 PM

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